Who has a better discography: Nas or Kendrick

[Illmagic]

Morale has the universal acclaim, so it was well received... And like Charlamagne said, Mr Morale is actually Kendrick's most praised album after TPAB outside of rap music, which is clearly what he was targeting.

I personally don't see him being overrated because the praise he got from the media, is nowhere near as high as the praise he gets from people that have strong musical knowledge, lecturers, goat musicians and shyt like that, you know people that actually know music on a more technical level. Now the thing with Kendrick, as opposed to Nas, is that he doesn't really make his music just by himself. There's like 60/100 musicians all working on his albums. Same for Kanye's first 4/5 albums.

Kendrick is the dude we talk about the most within the rap community when discussion his music, but in other music communities, all his collaborators get as much praise as he gets. I've never seen that with a rapper like Nas, because at the end of the day Nas is mostly rapping over some beats, there's no real complex musical idea to catch on his records. That's not a critique though, he's great at what he does.

Edit: "The idea that DAMN would be considered the 2nd greatest anything is hilarious" Can give me a reason why? cuz as far as I'm concerned, I could also say that I can't name a single album better than this one and my comment would be just as valid as yours. How are you judging it? whats the metric?

Cool if you wanna judge Kendrick by those standards I got no issue with that. Even in that lane DAMN wasn;t the best album even that year. That woulda been Lordes Melodrama. That album was phenomenal and Im sure got crazy praise from the same folks you talking about. On a hip-hop message board Im judging it by hip hop standards and I dont really care about all those "music people" who rock with Kendrick and not Nas. That doesn't put his catalogue ahead of Nas in hip hop.

 

[Budda]

Also I'd say Nas is a better rapper but Kendrick a better musician, and that matters a lot when it comes to music. That's one of the main reasons Nas' catalog only makes noise within the rap circles

Nas catalog only makes noise within rap circles because he doesn’t have good PR, that’s all.

As a musician Kendrick can make poppy songs but he isn’t Drake in that lane either, he’s the middle road between the two.

 

[ThirdAct]

Oh I absolutely agree with you, you enjoying tpab/gkmc more is subjective, just like me enjoying damn more than these 2 is subjective, I'll never refute that.

However, an album's legacy, classic statut and shyt like that is not subjective and can't be determined by an individual opinion. Thats exactly what I tried to show.

In that case isn't it objective that TPAB's classic status much bigger than Damn's? It seems that's genuinely considered Kendrick's magnum opus.

I mean, I kinda disagree with that, A lot of artists didn't have that issue. We can take Kendrick as an example... many are now ranking his first major album (gkmc) as his weakest, despite the massive acclaim it got.

Same shyt for Kanye West, Outkast,,...whats their best album? there's no consensus, you see each and every project of them being praised as their #1, just like Kendrick.

I'd say the reason why Illmatic is the unanimous answer when talking about nas best album is because it's by far his most acclaimed project, from critics and fans. It also doesn't help that most Nas albums sound "similar" (same NY style).
On the other hand, artists like Kendrick, Kast, Kanye manage to reinvent themselves with each album, to the point where you could say each album was made for a difference audience and since all of their records get similar level of acclaim as their debut album, it's almost impossible to determine their best record.

When nas makes an album, you already know he gonna make it for the same Nas fans that been riding with him since day 1. Kendrick, Kanye? you don't even know, they might record a 100% funk album that rap fans might not enjoy but it would still be an elite album from a musical standpoint, praised as a masterpiece by the music/funk community. And while Some "rap" fans would argue GKMC/TPAB/DAMN/MBDTF/CD/LR are better, that funk album could still end up being their magnum opus, determined by the rest of the music community.

There's definitely a consensus than Aquemini is the best Outkast album...with maybe ATLiens at second place? Stankonia expanded their fanbase and got them the most commercial success but most fans don't rank it as their #1...at least I don't think.

Nas was always put in between a rock and a hard place with the east coast purists and critics. Looking back now, IWW sounds NY as fukk, but back then, he was labelled a sell-out if every beat didn't sound boom bap as fukk...even though IWW is a seamless balance of hardcore rap and commercial rap. When he did experiment on later albums (Street's Disciple, Who Killed It?, Untitled) he was criticized. So yeah maybe Nas didn't reinvent himself as much but that's because if he put out a funk rap album (:mjlol) the critics and heads woulda crucified him

And there's really people saying GKMC is his worst? Again I can't help but feel this is recency bias..."Oh that's his old shyt, we want the new shyt". The writing on GKMC is super focused and cohesive.

 

[Hum Alistair]

Cool if you wanna judge Kendrick by those standards I got no issue with that. Even in that lane DAMN wasn;t the best album even that year. That woulda been Lordes Melodrama. That album was phenomenal and Im sure got crazy praise from the same folks you talking about. On a hip-hop message board Im judging it by hip hop standards and I dont really care about all those "music people" who rock with Kendrick and not Nas. That doesn't put his catalogue ahead of Nas in hip hop.

I just checked and DAMN was the consensus AOTY by end year lists in 2017, and won by an even bigger margin than Tpab in 2015. If we judge it by those standards, DAMN is also the best album of that year, by a large margin.
Melodrama came at 2, but it wasn't even a close fight

Best of 2017: Music Critic Top Ten Lists

Over the next month, we'll be collecting year-end top 10 album lists from over 200 music critics, publications, record stores, and other sources. Find individual lists and this year's cumulative rankings inside.

web.archive.org

from 210 individual publications

Don't get it wrong man, damn's respect comes from the fact it was undeniable musically. shyt got ranked #1 even by rock and reggae critics, claiming it featured even better rock, pop and rnb elements than any rock, pop & rnb album released that year.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

To sum this thread up

vs

 

[Hum Alistair]

In that case isn't it objective that TPAB's classic status much bigger than Damn's? It seems that's genuinely considered Kendrick's magnum opus.



There's definitely a consensus than Aquemini is the best Outkast album...with maybe ATLiens at second place? Stankonia expanded their fanbase and got them the most commercial success but most fans don't rank it as their #1...at least I don't think.

Nas was always put in between a rock and a hard place with the east coast purists and critics. Looking back now, IWW sounds NY as fukk, but back then, he was labelled a sell-out if every beat didn't sound boom bap as fukk...even though IWW is a seamless balance of hardcore rap and commercial rap. When he did experiment on later albums (Street's Disciple, Who Killed It?, Untitled) he was criticized. So yeah maybe Nas didn't reinvent himself as much but that's because if he put out a funk rap album (:mjlol) the critics and heads woulda crucified him

And there's really people saying GKMC is his worst? Again I can't help but feel this is recency bias..."Oh that's his old shyt, we want the new shyt". The writing on GKMC is super focused and cohesive.

Oh yeah in that case I do agree TPAB has a stronger case than DAMN. Ain't denying that, although these albums have reached two very different audiences. But I think context matters and TPAB came out at the middle of the BLM movement, and also influenced a lot of jazz artists and musicians. Can't say DAMN had that kind of influence.

It's tricky for Stankonia, old heads do rank Aquemini/ATLiens higher, but the new generation and people in other genres seem to rank stankonia #1. We're even starting to see Stankonia getting better placement on a bunch of all time lists from publications. The question is, once we old heads are dead, what will be considered as Kast best album?

I don't know if its recency bias, personally I never really liked gkmc, thats the only kendrick album I skip. Great writing, very cinematic album but also the most basic Kendrick has hever been as an artist imo. I'd say GKMC is a very accessible album for casual rap listeners, but outside of that, underground fans would rather go with s80, music fans would rather go with tpab, mainstream fans will go with damn, and now you see west coast fans claiming gnx is his best

 

[Budda]

People who are rap fans do not respect the art as a music form that’s why they’ll put the likes of Kanye making Black Skinhead to mythical levels just for being different, when in reality as someone who doesn’t have an inferiority complex and values rap as an art form give me a Lost Tapes over all of that shyt, give me a Lost Tapes over Damn near all Kendrick albums too. Him making a pop song with Rihanna doesn’t impress me, and it doesn’t garner the feeling I get when I listen to Purple or Doo Rags.

 

[Budda]

Oh yeah in that case I do agree TPAB has a stronger case than DAMN. Ain't denying that, although these albums have reached two very different audiences. But I think context matters and TPAB came out at the middle of the BLM movement, and also influenced a lot of jazz artists and musicians. Can't say DAMN had that kind of influence.

It's tricky for Stankonia, old heads do rank Aquemini/ATLiens higher, but the new generation and people in other genres seem to rank stankonia #1. We're even starting to see Stankonia getting better placement on a bunch of all time lists from publications. The question is, once we old heads are dead, what will be considered as Kast best album?
I don't know if its recency bias, personally I never really liked gkmc, thats the only kendrick album I skip. Great writing, very cinematic album but also the most basic Kendrick has hever been as an artist. I'd say GKMC is a very accessible album for casual rap listeners, but outside of that, underground fans would rather go with s80, music fans would rather go with tpab, mainstream fans will go with damn, etc

You see a lot of casual fans would prefer GKMC. A lot of normal black hood dudes would prefer GKMC also, you say it’s the most basic Kendrick been but I don’t agree lyrically and songwriting wise GKMC beats a lot of songs on Damn, and when all said and done probably has the most impactful Kendrick songs for a wide audience outside his last album.

There’s a beauty in simplicity also.

 

[Hum Alistair]

People who are rap fans do not respect the art as a music form that’s why they’ll put the likes of Kanye making Black Skinhead to mythical levels just for being different, when in reality as someone who doesn’t have an inferiority complex and values rap as an art form give me a Lost Tapes over all of that shyt, give me a Lost Tapes over Damn near all Kendrick albums too. Him making a pop song with Rihanna doesn’t impress me, and it doesn’t garner the feeling I get when I listen to Purple or Doo Rags.

They do. It's just you trying to find an explanation as to why some artists get more acclaim by other music genres...but the answer is simple, thats because they make better music.
Nobody really cares about what "Budda" personnally respect more. That's just good for budda tastes, the world is happy with what you personnally enjoy.

 

[ThirdAct]

It's tricky for Stankonia, old heads do rank Aquemini/ATLiens higher, but the new generation and people in other genres seem to rank stankonia #1. We're even starting to see Stankonia getting better placement on a bunch of all time lists from publications. The question is, once we old heads are dead, what will be considered as Kast best album?

I dunno but for me the skits and songs without Andre will always hold back Stankonia from being better than their first three.

 

[Hum Alistair]

You see a lot of casual fans would prefer GKMC. A lot of normal black hood dudes would prefer GKMC also, you say it’s the most basic Kendrick been but I don’t agree lyrically and songwriting wise GKMC beats a lot of songs on Damn, and when all said and done probably has the most impactful Kendrick songs for a wide audience outside his last album.

There’s a beauty in simplicity also.

I agree...but that simplicity has to be flawless...gkmc is kendrick's most flawed album musically.

I'd say Gkmc is one of the only kendrick albums that wasn't really critic-proof musically. This of course has nothing to do with the fact that I don't like it, just giving a reason as to why gkmc has never been considered as Kendrick's magnum opus.

As far as I'm concerned, some of my favorite albums aren't even acclaimed or considered as perfect.

 

[Budda]

You got a group of people that would put this




Over this



Because one has a U2 feature and bouncy beat and hipster cacs would show favor to it, that for me I just can understand I listen to all black music I don’t need to play hipster games when the soul is within me.

I respect rap as it’s own genre, Lost Tapes has songs better than a lot of songs on Damn, I don’t ever need to hear Humble again for example but I will always go back to Doo Rags, the best the nostalgia encapsulates the black experience way more, and people a lot of critics for the likes of Pitchfork and Rolling Stone simply don’t understand soul and feeling.

 

[Hum Alistair]

:mj

I dunno but for me the skits and songs without Andre will always hold back Stankonia from being better than their first three.

I agree, I have the same opinion. I don't really like this album tbh, but still a classic

 

[Hum Alistair]

people a lot of critics for the likes of Pitchfork and Rolling Stone simply don’t understand soul and feeling.

acclaim = more than just pitchfork and rolling stone.
Also what makes you think they don't understand soul and feeling? just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they don't understand.

 

[Budda]

I agree...but that simplicity has to be flawless...gkmc is kendrick's most flawed album musically.

I'd say Gkmc is one of the only kendrick albums that wasn't really critic-proof musically. This of course has nothing to do with the fact that I don't like it, just giving a reason as to why gkmc has never been considered as Kendrick's magnum opus.

As far as I'm concerned, some of my favorite albums aren't even acclaimed or considered as perfect.

What do you mean by critic proof musically? Musically GKMC is better than Mr Morale Damn and GNX for me.