"Who are the Knicks? Brunson, Brunson and some other Knickas" " - Official '23 NYK Offseason Thread

[Peter Popoff]

The only trend I’m seeing is Thibs doesn’t play guys who aren’t good anymore. Them crying about that FACT, something that all players who don’t realize that they’re not what they thought they were, isn’t newsworthy to me. The only player who bytched and had a legit reason for so was Obi and we did the best we could to put him in a good situation.

And I'm calling Malarkey and on that for the simple fact that the nıgga sat Toppin on plenty of games when Randle was injured and he was hot also when they didn't have any other backup PFs just so he could experiment on playing C's in his place.

He also did the same shıt on games where both Grimes and RJ (bum) were out just to play Duece & Rose (traditional PGs) (Not to cape for Fournier) in the 2. Let's not forget Austin Rivers.

He has favoritism and doesn't know how to tell a nıgga, he don't like them and doesn't wanna play them. He also doesn't put them in a position to look great because he doesn't coach offense.

 

[seemorecizzy]

Like I said break it down gang

How did the Nuggets bust the zone

You know better

Dont tell me this isn't anything Randle Couldn't of done with proper coaching

simple adjustment. Instead we stayed on the outside, held da ball, and went iso every time. How da fukk can u beat a zone doing that?

Low key we've haven't been able to handle a zone since Thibs got here, this has been well documented by me and others in this thread.


And even if thibs didn't try this, the point im making is...HE DID NOT TRY ANYTHING lmao
if he tried something different and failed i could live with that to a degree, but he literally made no adjustments.

The fact that you really think he did all he could of done in dat series and no other coach in da league could of done better is truely fukked up

 

[ISO]

Obi is a flawed player. But his flaws were highlighted by his misfit on the roster, while his strengths were buried. The longer he was left to try and become a 3 and D wing instead of a rim-running PF, the more his value dropped. If the Knicks had looked to move him as soon as they realized Julius Randle would be playing 35 mpg in perpetuity, they coulda gotten more. For clarity's sake, more doesn't mean anything drastic. Two second round picks is better than one (that was a rumored offer in the offseason), and there was talk about being offered protected first round picks prior to that. We watched Obi's value continually drop while his role never evolved.

And just to be clear, whether or not Obi deserved more minutes is beside the point. The point is, to maximize value they'd have to trade Obi sooner. Plus, if they wanted a 3 and D wing for the back-up PF role, dumping Obi to find a better fit always made more sense than forcing him into a role that clashed with his skillset.

In terms of doing due diligence for stars, I agree. But that means they need better assets or they need more assets to offer. My complaint isn't for lack of due diligence to get stars, it's that they're hanging on to assets for a star trade until those assets have no value in any trade. They shouldn't have had to use first round picks to dump expiring contracts last year. They should have gotten something positive back for Burks.

I think we may run into it again with Deuce McBride. Begley and Woj mentioned teams interest in McBride and the Knicks shutting that down. That's a good move for a piece with a future on the team. But if they're just gonna sit him on the bench and then let him walk a year from now, then get me the second round pick (ditto for Sims).

Again I disagree that his value dropped. Even if used to his strengths, his weaknesses are numerous. Teams know who he is him playing a little bit more or being used in P&R's more was not going to do anything for his value. Teams know he is a hyper athlete that can run the floor and play P&R. They saw his college tape. I don't see PF's going for much in the market so I don't see how using him as a rim running PF would increase his value. The league has plenty of rim runners. In my opinion Obi has become a better basketball player here. He has developed into a better three point shooter, a better perimeter and spot up defender, has improved his ball handling, has improved his footwork. The only way Obi could net you something forreal is if he got extended run due to injuries as a starter (not at the end of the season and random spot starts) and was dominant offensively but that was never going to happen with Randle here.

We can disagree on that and obviously the FO isn't perfect but overall they've done a good job we just need a star to jump to true contender Brunson is a dog and our cast of role players is damn good.

 

[RickyGQ]

With a better coach we win that series
i don't give a fukk what anyone says
those guys were not better than us
They outhustled us and had a better game plan

Mike malone isnt da best coach in da world but it took him one game to adjust to miami's zone. We played da same way every game

Come on fam. I could have adjusted to the Miami zone with the best player in the world on my roster too. We’re being disingenuous in here.

 

[seemorecizzy]

Teams have made it to the conference finals without Transcendent players. Thibs isn’t even a guarantee to get out the first round.

nikkas ain’t even saying Thibs is a bad coach, but the motherfukker has flaws that come included with him.

exactly
and i gave that man credit this year for getting better as a coach..

He wasn't AS stubborn as he was in past seasons when he tried to play Burkes at pg or shove elfred payton down our throats Pause.

IF he can improve Again, im with it, but i doubt it works out long term

 

[Peter Popoff]

You are right but Every team overcharges the Knicks. Even the damn league took a second from them for no reason but

Please shut the fukk up, we agree on most things if you bothered to read the post but RJ and Thibs. However, your so god damn aggy you come in here looking for a fight. I posted a pro RJ tweet and you went on a five page rant. Another person said damn Thibs has bad habit and your in the middle of a 10 page rant defending him. Most the misery in this thread is from disagreeing with you and then the back and forth you force. Stop projecting!

You remind me of the poster Zema who use to come in here spewing a preset group of facts to just so she could annoy nikkas and try to make a point.

This motherfukker Thibs playoff record is trash and he’s lost multiple times to lower seeds. Likely because he inflates teams regular season wins, but that’s my point. Whenever the opposing team coaches start playoff level coaching (like making changes in game) he can’t win. He can’t adapt to shyt until he sits down and watches tape. The win against the Cavs was cool, but that roster is shyt because Ainge robbed them during the Mitchell trade. The only thing I will give Thibs credit for is he isn’t as stubborn it just took him to being down in game four to realize “Randle is playing injured and sucking…. Let’s sit him”. Yeah Randle had to get ankle surgery because he played him injured and Obi cursed him out for minutes to play in the next series, but that is an improvement for Thibs.

OG is just a bigger version of Grimes. The motherfukker can’t self create/dribble drive in the half court, he’s saying he wants to do that more to inflate his price, but that is also the reason the Knicks have not offered RJ or IQ for him. He’s a better Grimes but losing RJ’s and IQ’s self creation would be shooting themselves in the foot to get him.

Yea, my girl is from Chicago and most of her friends plus her brother were die hard bulls fans. They can attest to the enduring the tumultuous years of Thibs coaching and that he's a temp. fix to get you in the 1st round of the playoffs but a terrible peoples person that's toxic to every organization, he's joined. He's relapsing back to the Timberwolves time. So this team will essentially end up being worse than them in that sense. Randles antics will demoralize this team and chase potential away or just make the organization a toxic team to play for. He's a chucker that pouts when he has bad games instead of thinking about putting the people around him in a better place like Draymond and his defense sux especially when he offense is off.

Jaylen will not succeed playing on court with him for the years to come.

 

[ISO]

Dont tell me this isn't anything Randle Couldn't of done with proper coaching

simple adjustment. Instead we stayed on the outside, held da ball, and went iso every time. How da fukk can u beat a zone doing that?

Low key we've haven't been able to handle a zone since Thibs got here, this has been well documented by me and others in this thread.


And even if thibs didn't try this, the point im making is...HE DID NOT TRY ANYTHING lmao
if he tried something different and failed i could live with that to a degree, but he literally made no adjustments.

The fact that you really think he did all he could of done in dat series and no other coach in da league could of done better is truely fukked up

Randle was injured and he ain't Jokic...I'm sure Jokic makes it look easy

If we had Jokic we would have been the champions player performance outweighs coaching

The Knicks haven't been able to beat a zone since before Thibs got here its the lack of consistent, high level shooting

 

[seemorecizzy]

Come on fam. I could have adjusted to the Miami zone with the best player in the world on my roster too. We’re being disingenuous in here.

The adjustment had to do with space and positioning on the court. Jokic was not doing da same thing he did in their game 2 loss. They brought the ball up quicker, had better spacing, and did things aa a team to disrupt their zone.

That was a mike malone adjustment

 

[Peter Popoff]

I disagree on Obi having value. That is a man that did not even have a definitive NBA position coming in with a lot of doubters I really don't see what you think he was supposed to net and this really goes back to Knicks fans tendencies to overrate certain players. Toppin doesn't rebound well, doesn't rim protect, is a sometimes shooter, can't play the perimeter, PF is the most devalued position in the game.

If you ask me the organization has been doing their due diligence for stars. It's just hypocritical to me because last summer nobody wanted to trade for Mitchell here the asking price was too high but now fans are angsty and seem like they would go for pretty much just anybody. I don't understand it for the life of me. I'm well aware that Grimes and/or IQ would be in trade discussions they're legit good unlike a certain somebody.

I'll let how he plays in Indiana be the determining factor in if Thibs was right and I'm mad retarded also that RJ is a great SG or if both you and Thibs need to be stomped out with steel cleeted Timbs.

 

[seemorecizzy]

Randle was injured and he ain't Jokic...I'm sure Jokic makes it look easy

If we had Jokic we would have been the champions player performance outweighs coaching

The Knicks haven't been able to beat a zone since before Thibs got here its the lack of consistent, high level shooting

Made what look easy?
He literally just moved to a different position on da court.lol
nothing difficult about that at all. That's a coaching adjustment, i know you're not used to those lmal

Miami was used to him being at da top of da key.
Once he wasn't, there zone was in shambles.

We played from da outside and relied on Brunson Iso's and randle contested threes.

and yes you are right, we had zone problems before thibs and he's done nothin to improve that

 

[ISO]

Teams have made it to the conference finals without Transcendent players. Thibs isn’t even a guarantee to get out the first round.

Yeah man you're just trying to incessantly rail on Thibs

I'm not even going to waste my time breaking down the track records or perceptions of other coaches

Knicks overachieved last year and are in a good spot for some reason people here think we should have beat Miami, should have been in the Finals, whatever it just sounds ridiculous

 

[storyteller]

Again I disagree that his value dropped. Even if used to his strengths, his weaknesses are numerous. Teams know who he is him playing a little bit more or being used in P&R's more was not going to do anything for his value. Teams know he is a hyper athlete that can run the floor and play P&R. They saw his college tape. I don't see PF's going for much in the market so I don't see how using him as a rim running PF would increase his value. The league has plenty of rim runners. In my opinion Obi has become a better basketball player here. He has developed into a better three point shooter, a better perimeter and spot up defender, has improved his ball handling, has improved his footwork. The only way Obi could net you something forreal is if he got extended run due to injuries as a starter (not at the end of the season and random spot starts) and was dominant offensively but that was never going to happen with Randle here.

We can disagree on that and obviously the FO isn't perfect but overall they've done a good job we just need a star to jump to true contender Brunson is a dog and our cast of role players is damn good.

I think that's the key point. Once they extended Randle, they needed to flip Obi before the rest of the league caught on. That might not have netted a ton more, but we're talking about a single second round pick that's years away and will be the worst of two potential options. Had they flipped him sooner, they might have gotten a protected first or multiple second round picks at least.

They've done fine. They haven't done great, they haven't done bad by any means, but they're a massive improvement over any FO of the last 2 decades imo. I give them props, but I think their biggest flaw is that their asset management can clash with their roster management at times. They want to create valuable assets while winning games, and that's always difficult to pull off. It's probably even more complicated (disjointed maybe too tough a description) because Rose keeps so many voices in the loop.

 

[ISO]

I think that's the key point. Once they extended Randle, they needed to flip Obi before the rest of the league caught on. That might not have netted a ton more, but we're talking about a single second round pick that's years away and will be the worst of two potential options. Had they flipped him sooner, they might have gotten a protected first or multiple second round picks at least.

They've done fine. They haven't done great, they haven't done bad by any means, but they're a massive improvement over any FO of the last 2 decades imo. I give them props, but I think their biggest flaw is that their asset management can clash with their roster management at times. They want to create valuable assets while winning games, and that's always difficult to pull off. It's probably even more complicated (disjointed maybe too tough a description) because Rose keeps so many voices in the loop.

Isn't the trade two second round picks for Obi? That's what I saw reported...

I don't think there is any way in hell a 23, 24 year old prospect whose best skill is dunking is netting you any first round picks protected or not

Overall the difference in return would have been negligible and insignificant to me its not a hill to die on and I don't think the FO wanted to trade Obi they probably wanted to hold onto him to package him for a star but he essentially forced his way out

 

[Wargames]

Yeah man you're just trying to incessantly rail on Thibs

I'm not even going to waste my time breaking down the track records or perceptions of other coaches

Knicks overachieved last year and are in a good spot for some reason people here think we should have beat Miami, should have been in the Finals, whatever it just sounds ridiculous

I didn’t even start shytting on Thibs. I’ve even defended him several times. Thibs is Thibs though and known quantity with his strengths and flaws.

I actually called their record last year in the preseason as 46 - 54 and think they will be a 50+ team this year.

However, I see the limit of that. The issue your ignoring which goes back to the tweet I posted earlier. Guys who can be Transcendent players or could be don’t want to play for Thibs and on the low Thibs probably wouldn’t want them anyway.

He’s like D’antoni but switch out SSOL for defense/scrappiness. I don’t think he’ll ever be a coach on a great team. His very nature limits what kind of team you can put around him.

 

[ISO]

Made what look easy?
He literally just moved to a different position on da court.lol
nothing difficult about that at all. That's a coaching adjustment, i know you're not used to those lmal

Miami was used to him being at da top of da key.
Once he wasn't, there zone was in shambles.

We played from da outside and relied on Brunson Iso's and randle contested threes.

and yes you are right, we had zone problems before thibs and he's done nothin to improve that

The difference between Jokic and Randle shouldn't have to be explained

Miami's zone is something all their opponents struggled with

I get it you would have liked to see Thibs maybe make an adjustment like that but Randle ain't Jokic who is an All-Time passer and is dominant whether in the high post or low post where as Julius is more of a power guard face up big man with tunnel vision who is awkward in the low post and probably would not draw as much attention not only that our spacing isn't the same unless you wanted Julius to be moved to the 5