"Who are the Knicks? Brunson, Brunson and some other Knickas" " - Official '23 NYK Offseason Thread

Daniel.

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Man bullshyt. The Knicks don't have to trade shyt unless its advantageous to us. If teams wanted Fournier like that he'd be traded.

Had we been playing Fournier and taking minutes from Grimes/Quickley we'd be a play in team.

:comeon:

"If teams wanted him they'd make offers"

"We don't need to make a trade unless it benefits us"

"If we played him (at all, apparently) we'd be a play in, so it's good that he sat"

"Everyone knows who he is, there's no reason to play him to try to showcase him".

So do nothing unless someone shows interest, despite clearly not valuing this asset or in the slightest. Got it. Thanks.
 

ISO

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"If teams wanted him they'd make offers"

"We don't need to make a trade unless it benefits us"

"If we played him (at all, apparently) we'd be a play in, so it's good that he sat"

"Everyone knows who he is, there's no reason to play him to try to showcase him".

So do nothing unless someone shows interest, despite clearly not valuing this asset or in the slightest. Got it. Thanks.
What asset?

He’s trade contract filler.
 

storyteller

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It’s clear the asset is the contract not the player. While I loved the signing originally, all that three point shooting didn’t do shyt for us cause he was an absolute turnstile on defense. And those players are a relic in todays league. Only way you can justify playing a player that’s that much of a negative on defense is if he’s a walking threat to drop 40 on any given night. You can’t find players like Evan Fournier on any roster that’s trying to be something.

At this stage that's true. But the FO didn't do him any favors by keeping him on the roster with Grimes primed to take his spot. It remains to be seen if they can turn that contract for any more value than they woulda gotten by doing him a solid sooner. Prolly coulda got someone to throw a second-rounder for him last year. Maybe even at the deadline this year.

It's not a huge deal either way. The team is clearly better without him playing. But on the one hand, this FO wants to convince big names that this is a destination. On the other hand, that's the second player to walk out the door and express unhappiness with the coaching situation. If the FO winds up just dumping these players for nothing, then they should do it before we reach the "disgruntled interview" stage.
 

ISO

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You're being obtuse or you have limited social skills and awareness.

Choose one.
Dude what is there to communicate?

He was told by Thibs that he was trying something different from there his time was cut. Fournier can clearly see the value being brought by his teammates in his spot.

What the hell do you want Thibs to say “aye sorry bro” no the writing is on the wall you support your teammates and stay ready and continue to cash those handsome checks. This is straight entitlement and ego.
 

Knicksman20

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No vet is going to be happy not playing and this is what this comes down to.

Once a vet isn’t playing the bridge is burned.

Thibs as a professional coach did what was best for the team

Lol at taking French fukks side
We're never gonna agree when it comes to Thibs so I don't know why you're quoting me lol. Fournier is one of the good guys of the NBA & a good locker room vet guy. I 100% agreed with the benching & hated the signing from the jump but you don't burn bridges & relationships the way Thibs has consistently with players; especially vets like that. It's toxic behavir & as an organization, the FO has fought to remove that kind of air from it. He could've handled the situation better & more professionally but more importantly, as a man. I don't know about you but respect comes first to me as a grown ass man.

If Thibs handled the situation respectfully & more like a man, a guy like Fournier might not have ran to the media & bad mouthed him & the organization. He wouldn't have agreed but he probaby would've been quiet & they move him to another team quietly. You're always missing the bigger picture & the nuances of things like this bro & I have no idea why
 

Daniel.

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But let’s be specific. Cause there’s push and pull in everything. We already know playing him garbage time minutes in blowouts does nothing. Every team has nba scouts who aren’t dummies. So how many wins potentially, and whose development specifically are you willing to sacrifice in hopes of trading Evan Fournier for something decent? Cause we cry when this team doesn’t prioritize the young guys, and when they FINALLY do, and it works like we always knew it would, it seems like we’re finding new ways to complain.

I can't be more specific than saying play him spot minutes in blowouts and/or making a specific effort to show case him if/when you can. I'm not suggesting playing him over youth on any long term basis and I'm not suggesting spot minutes/garbage time is a magic bullet - I'm suggesting not bombing his value and the relationship, which Thibs has a history of doing, unless you actively believe all these players are just sensitive and blaming him for everything.

There is balance to be had that goes beyond all this either he rots on the bench or he's ruining the youth movement narrative being pushed in here.
 

ISO

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We're never gonna agree when it comes to Thibs so I don't know why you're quoting me lol. Fournier is one of the good guys of the NBA & a good locker room vet guy. I 100% agreed with the benching & hated the signing from the jump but you don't burn bridges & relationships the way Thibs has consistently with players; especially vets like that. It's toxic behavir & as an organization, the FO has fought to remove that kind of air from it. He could've handled the situation better & more professionally but more importantly, as a man. I don't know about you but respect comes first to me as a grown ass man.

If Thibs handled the situation respectfully & more like a man, a guy like Fournier might not have ran to the media & bad mouthed him & the organization. He wouldn't have agreed but he probaby would've been quiet & they move him to another team quietly. You're always missing the bigger picture & the nuances of things like this bro & I have no idea why
Thibs didn’t burn shyt Fournier fell out the rotation and wasn’t happy about it.

There are disgruntled vets all over the association.
 

Knicksman20

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Thibs didn’t burn shyt Fournier fell out the rotation and wasn’t happy about it.

There are disgruntled vets all over the association.
This is exactly why we don't agree & will never lol. You bury your head in the sand & willfully choose to ignore the nuance of the situation when it comes to Thibs. Fournier is a grown ass man & a vet of 10 years in the NBA. He's an actual good guy & a good locker room vet. The least Thibs could do was show him the respect that he deserves as a man. Dude has never been a trouble maker. It could've been handled different
 

ISO

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This is exactly why we don't agree & will never lol. You bury your head in the sand & willfully choose to ignore the nuance of the situation when it comes to Thibs. Fournier is a grown ass man & a vet of 10 years in the NBA. He's an actual good guy & a good locker room vet. The least Thibs could do was show him the respect that he deserves as a man. Dude has never been a trouble maker. It could've been handled different
How did he disrespect him? It’s business not personal.

How should it had been handled?
 

ISO

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Really lol? You're being disingenuous again bro I'm not wasting any more time with this because you already know. You're ignoring what Fournier said
How am I being disingenous?

Why are you taking Fournier's word as gospel? He's a fukking jock basketball player and a veteran of course he felt a way being benched after what he considered one of the better years of his career.

The man is delusional. He has an inflated sense of self worth. Let's break down his quotes shall we?

"Do you know Dragon Ball Z? When the hero Goku finds himself on planet Namek, injured, in a regeneration capsule? I had this image in my head all year, every practice," Fournier said.

You not Goku :unimpressed:
"You want to spit on everyone. You have hatred. Derrick Rose and I looked at each other and said to each other: 'What the hell are we doing here?' During the five-on-five practice, we were on the side like some prospects. Uncool times. And when I realized that wouldn't change, I took things more slowly," he said. "I focused on myself and didn't let the rest get to me anymore. I did three cardio sessions, two weight training sessions per week, a lot of travel work, [analyzing] game situations with an assistant coach Daniel Brady."
Spit on people? :picard:

Also, why is he mentioning @Another Man

This is nothing but his ego speaking talking about we were on the side like some prospects. He felt that was beneath him despite the fact that his replacements were bringing more value to the hardwood and helping the team win.
"I have nothing to say because I have none," Fournier said about rapport with the specialist."When he took me out of the five, he just told me he was going to try something else. Then at the first match of a road trip, he announced to me that I was leaving the rotation, and ciao."
This was the communication right here. Thibs told him he was going to try something else go in a different direction and told him he was out of the rotation this is clear direction. Fournier due to his own self-inflated ego and having been a rotational player his entire career for a decade obviously wasn't going to be happy about this.

"If you want to trade me with a good return, why didn't you use me? I was coming out of a season where I was the fourth-best 3-point shooter in the league. Why not take advantage of it?" Fournier told. "Now they won't get anything interesting and that's normal because I couldn't show anything [on the court]."
This is again delusion. We were never getting anything interesting for you dude. You were traded for a retiring Jeff Teague and two second rounders to Boston before you signed with us. You're a good shooter but overall not a very valuable or coveted player in this league ultimately--->replaceable.

Fournier is an expiring contract, salary filler for a potential trade that is all he is at this point...
 
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