Where does the idea that LeBron is a better all around player than Jordan come from

[Art Barr]

so you think Lebron has low bball IQ?

yeah,....
as magic was called tragic magic and had his whole shyt trashed.
yet you nikkaz in this tsbloid digital era.
give complete loser passes for even worse outing than tragic magic.

Where bron will easily jag winning in numerous situations.
that could have easily been turned into winning in lebron'a favor.

a six final loss overall record proves that.
plus i know people will not sit and rant footage like me in this community.
nor do they read,...
or even know the source material.
so I already know why we are where we are in this discussion.
As this debate is flooded with non-pedigreed unactualized takes on every topic. Since the net became popular in the wake of digital devices in mass droves. Past the original unveiling and usage of the net in 97.

Art Barr

PROTEGE TO A LEGEND :
LEGENDARY LIEGE : THE SERIES

 

[Long Live The Kane]

It comes from Bron Ball and the accumulation of counting stats that I don't think accurately measures in-game impact.... I've long posited that being a volume scorer AND the primary playmaker on your team is a detriment to team offense all things considered, as it limits the impact of teammates (not a LeBron specific thing, goes for Oscar back in the day all the way to harden and Westbrook years previous...Luka and trae today)...MJ could play that way, like if he played how Houston has played around Harden the past few years...some absurd stat lines would be created, ridiculous scoring and assist numbers...would've been a waste though to play that way in his day with a player like Pippen never being fully realized and Phil getting Blatt'd for attempting to run the triangle...it's why Golden State is so clearly the best offense we've seen in this era and nobody has huge assist numbers

To me being an elite two way player means more in the context "all around player" ... And LeBron hasn't been anywhere close to as consistently great as MJ was on defense through out his career...he had a great couple years on that end in MIA that has been retrofitted in arguments to make him some "can guard every position at the highest level" defensive monster, that doesn't exist lol

 

[Art Barr]

It was never a discussion really...Jordan Is leagues above them all and it even close...its these tv shock jock, hot take, “must see tv” analysts who have started this comparison...the Shannon Sharpes and Max Kellermans of the industry

I boycott, ban hammered first take and boxing.
so, i don't see max kellerman's takes.
yet before that max is the best boxing analyst not named bert sugar.
Plus applies that same style of sound factoid knowledge.
to other sports as well.
yet past my ban hammering of has max kellerman changed his stance on Jordan.
to the point he is lumped in.
with the stan based ideal of shannon opposite skip idiot Bayless.
so has max changed his stellar Jordan factoid based stances.
or is max lumped in this comparison to shannon sharpe because he is white.
as that is a disservice to real journalism.
if you view max in the same sensationalist based light as skip and Shannon.

so did max fall off and when?



Art Barr

 

[Ukbrotha]

I don't believe you can accurately compare across eras. You can only compare in context to what they did in their eras.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I remember when Mike was about to come back to the NBA with the Wizards, he said "I'll average 24 points a game" when a reporter asked him how, Mike replied "by scoring 6 points every quarter. you don't think I can score 6 points in a quarter?".

Yep. It's well-known that Jordan was focused on his stats, but ignorant fools on here just decided to make up the idea that MJ didn't care about it when he OPENLY admitted chasing stats. Even his famous triple-double streak was the result of blatant stat-padding by his own admission.

Sun Sentinel

During breaks in games, Jordan has been wandering over to the scorer`s table to get updates on how many rebounds, assists and points he needs to fill his three double-figure quotas.

"The guys at the scorer`s desk let me know what I need," he said. "They tell me, `You need three assists; you need two rebounds."

Jordan also has been double-checking the figures with Chicago assistants.

"They keep me in tune," he said. "They keep reminding me when I come back to the huddle, how much I need."

Last Sunday, at home against New Jersey, the 10th assist was Jordan`s final goal.

"I knew I had nine assists," he said, "and I looked at (forward) Brad (Sellers), and said, `Brad, can I count on you for my 10th?` And he said, `yeah` and hit a jumper from the baseline."

For Jordan, the triple-double has eclipsed high-scoring games as the goal.

"I think those 63-point games are gone," he said. "I've had a good time scoring 60-something points and 50-something points, but it's a lot of work."

He's blatantly admitting that high scoring totals or triple-doubles were his goal at different stages of his career.



The NBA / Sam McManis : Pitino Finds Slumping Knicks Are a Team in Turmoil as Players Bicker

Since switching to point guard for the Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan has become statistic conscious. He has started checking with statisticians to see how close he is to a triple-double. He had a string of seven consecutive triple-doubles broken Friday night.

“The guys at the scorer’s desk let me know what I need,” Jordan said.

So, too, do the Bulls’ assistant coaches.

“They keep reminding me when I get back to the huddle,” Jordan said. “They say, ‘You need three more of this. You need four more of that.’ ”

Jordan is trying to win over voters for the league’s most valuable player award.

“If the way I’m playing now doesn’t convince them I’m a complete player, then I guess nothing will,” Jordan said.

They all gonna pretend none of this ever happened.

@O.T.I.S. and @Art Barr clueless about bball history, they only know their narratives. MJ quoted admitting that he did EXACTLY what they claimed he didn't do.

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

Because most people don't know what they're talking about.

Being complete - Offense / Defense / (Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals , Blocks)

Offense - Jordan holds the records for post ppg in both the REGULAR season and PLAYOFFS, the latter by an absolute mile.
He has 10 scoring titles. Lebron has 1. Nuff said.

Defense - This one is not even debatable. 9 time all first team NBA defense , tied for most in NBA history. multiple seasons of 200+ steals and 100+ blocks. First player and one of only 3 players to do that. Jordan did it in back to back seasons. 3 steals titles. NBA Defensive player of the year.
Lebron only had a relatively short peak as a very good defensive player and even in that peak , he was nowhere near the defensive player Jordan was who was a monster on defense for almost his entire career.

Offense + Defense - The fact that Jordan won the Defensive player of the year and Scoring title in the same year tells you everything you need to know. Of course no one else in NBA history has done that.

(Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, Blocks) - So Lebron has this reputation as a stat stuffer but some don't seem to know that Jordan is easily the greatest stat stuffer in modern NBA history.

Basketball Statistics and History | Basketball-Reference.com has a stat called "GameScore" - which analyzes every statistical component of individual games, from points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks , FG%, efficiency and FT%. all combined into a number. This link does a good job explaining it: Game Score | NBAstuffer

40 or more Gamescore for an individual game represents and all time great game. Guess who has by far the most in Modern NBA history ?
https://www.basketball-reference.co...at=game_score&c1comp=gt&c1val=40&order_by=pts

(Jordan has 56 total such games , Lebron has 26)

What that means is Jordan is the greatest stat stuffer and has the most impressive game stats of any player in the modern era (since steals and blocks were not accounted for going back to Wilt and Russell's era in the 60's)

Basketball is not just about Points, Rebounds and Assists in judging how "complete" or "all round" a player is. If that's the case, Larry Bird was a more all round player than Jordan.

Never mind, there are also positional differences between small forwards and shooting guards and what they contribute to the team.

Looking at the total package I presented above, Jordan wins in all of them over Lebron.

• Offense - Jordan
• Defense - Jordan
• (Points, Rebonds, Assists, Steals, Blocks, FG%, FT%) - Jordan

Jordan is the most complete player of all time, clearly a better all round player than Lebron and its pretty clear if you actually know basketball and you've done some research.

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

According to the above metric ^^ of "GameScore" , its crazy how Jordan stuffed the stat sheet :

Just look at some of these numbers for games with 40 or more GameScore : Michael Jordan Game Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

It's also interesting that 52 of those 56 games were BEFORE Jordan retired in 1993. The real Jordan retired in 1993. 3 peat Jordan was still cool and the best in the world but the monster really retired in 1993.

Edit - Some of those numbers are just filthy 44 points, 9 assists, 6 steals, 5 blocks. 56 points , 8 steals, 7 rebounds. There's never been a guy to score so many points and then have so many steals in the same game.

 

[606onit]

if winning is the end goal, Im going with goat.
if we're judging who's just an overall better guy (in a feminist-led society's POV) Brick got it.

 

[Cyber]

Most people base this off of who is better at being a triple double threat, that's why. Some (particularly old heads) consider Robertson to be the most complete ever for that reason

I've always interpreted all-around to how complete they actually are. Jordan could slash and shoot at a high level (contested/uncontested/spot up/off dribble), could play on/off ball at a high level, defend at a high level, pass at a high level. That's only the surface

Worst thing you can really say about prime Jordan was not having the strongest 3 ball in an era where that was an afterthought. I also find it strange when people use that against him vs LeBron, I would be surprised if LeBron % of open 3s that come from defenders sagging off of him is lower than whatever that % was for MJ

 

[BXKingPin82]

have any of you ever been to a Block Party? Some bullshyt House Party?
Fam Reunion? (we dont do Thanksgive like that) "Holiday HellDay" aint in the 120 L.
theres always one or two jokers ready to risk it all over some goddamn LeBron!

 

[Dwight Howard]

One of the biggest reasons why I hate the Jordan LeBron debate, no one ever takes into account position played or system they played in. They both played completely different roles on there teams and was asked to do different things. The debate is dumb imo.

Lebron would be scottie pippen in the triangle. But imagine jordan playing bron ball with shooters

 

[ajnapoleon]

Lebron would be scottie pippen in the triangle. But imagine jordan playing bron ball with shooters

Lebron would not be able to survive in the 80' or 90's he would be a end of the bench player


and he to stupid to play in the triangle

 

[DoubleClutch]

It’s no use comparing Lebron to Jordan. That debate is already settled.

Compare Lebron to Penny or Pippen.

 

[O.T.I.S.]

Because most people don't know what they're talking about.

Being complete - Offense / Defense / (Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals , Blocks)

Offense - Jordan holds the records for post ppg in both the REGULAR season and PLAYOFFS, the latter by an absolute mile.
He has 10 scoring titles. Lebron has 1. Nuff said.

Defense - This one is not even debatable. 9 time all first team NBA defense , tied for most in NBA history. multiple seasons of 200+ steals and 100+ blocks. First player and one of only 3 players to do that. Jordan did it in back to back seasons. 3 steals titles. NBA Defensive player of the year.
Lebron only had a relatively short peak as a very good defensive player and even in that peak , he was nowhere near the defensive player Jordan was who was a monster on defense for almost his entire career.

Offense + Defense - The fact that Jordan won the Defensive player of the year and Scoring title in the same year tells you everything you need to know. Of course no one else in NBA history has done that.

(Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, Blocks) - So Lebron has this reputation as a stat stuffer but some don't seem to know that Jordan is easily the greatest stat stuffer in modern NBA history.

Basketball Statistics and History | Basketball-Reference.com has a stat called "GameScore" - which analyzes every statistical component of individual games, from points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks , FG%, efficiency and FT%. all combined into a number. This link does a good job explaining it: Game Score | NBAstuffer

40 or more Gamescore for an individual game represents and all time great game. Guess who has by far the most in Modern NBA history ?
https://www.basketball-reference.co...at=game_score&c1comp=gt&c1val=40&order_by=pts

(Jordan has 56 total such games , Lebron has 26)

What that means is Jordan is the greatest stat stuffer and has the most impressive game stats of any player in the modern era (since steals and blocks were not accounted for going back to Wilt and Russell's era in the 60's)

Basketball is not just about Points, Rebounds and Assists in judging how "complete" or "all round" a player is. If that's the case, Larry Bird was a more all round player than Jordan.

Never mind, there are also positional differences between small forwards and shooting guards and what they contribute to the team.

Looking at the total package I presented above, Jordan wins in all of them over Lebron.

• Offense - Jordan
• Defense - Jordan
• (Points, Rebonds, Assists, Steals, Blocks, FG%, FT%) - Jordan

Jordan is the most complete player of all time, clearly a better all round player than Lebron and its pretty clear if you actually know basketball and you've done some research.

Don’t tell this clown @Rhakim any of this... only balls he seems to know about is Lebrons...

 

[O.T.I.S.]

if winning is the end goal, Im going with goat.
if we're judging who's just an overall better guy (in a feminist-led society's POV) Brick got it.

Its not the end all to the LeGBT... especially @Rhakim..

Stat nerds gonna stat nerd though... forgetting about the most important stats which are W’s...


But watch her come in here with some excuse for Lebron losing 6 times