Where does Lebron rank all-time now?

[Bilz]

In 2011 he replaces Lebron.

2012 he replaces Wade.

Well I thought Houston's point was that he would have won 2 rings with Miami. How could he trade Wade for LeBron after the 1st championship?

I don't know if Kobe wins with this team. It's possible I guess, I actually think it was much more likely in 2011 than 2012 since Wade was better last year and Bosh was absent for much of these playoffs. Still, this team isn't as complementary to Kobe as it is for LeBron.

Kobe has always relied on isolation plays and offensive rebounding. When he draws the defense and takes bad shots, his teammates (Shaq, Odom, Bynum, Gasol, etc) have been there to clean up the mess. His playing style needs those bigs. On this Miami team, he'd have to defer and play off the ball a lot more and that has never really been his style. He's also not the defender that LeBron is. He'd likely be playing the 3 in that scenario (Chalmers 1, Wade 2) and he just doesn't have the size and strength that LeBron has.

 

[FTBS]

In 2011 he replaces Lebron.

2012 he replaces Wade.

If you are comparing him to Lebron how then can you have him replace Wade? You can't pick and chose which player he replaces based on which year. As great as Kobe is you know good and well he couldn't have pulled off what Bron pulled off this postseason. Since we are time traveling let's see how Bron fares in Kobe's spot during the 3peat or with Pau/Bynum/Odom and co.

 

[GreatestLaker]

Do I need to up the Finals numbers again?

You know the ones you didn't reply to last time

Final numbers don't favor Kobe either.

 

[Malta]

Kobe has 5 rings but, only 2 Finals MVPs

If Bron got 3 or 4 rings & 3 Finals MVPs, I'd put him over Kobe for being "the man" more times, eventhough Kobe won more.

So, you put Duncan over Kobe?




Cause I do.

LeBron won't need much to pass Kobe in terms of titles, considering he's been the best player in the league these last couple of years with Kobe in it.

 

[YBE]

If Kobe had won the MVP in 06 and 07. Lebron probably would never be able to catch Kobe's career, but he didn't. So passing Kobe is not impossible for Lebron.

Or if Kobe never played with Shaq. He would have had a team built around him much earlier. Would have won numerous scoring titles, MVPs and would have won rings as the man before 09.

Looking back at it playing with Shaq hurt Kobe's career more than it helped.

i said that shyt before & got negged

 

[Bilz]

MVP's are rarely anything more than a likability contest or the flavor of the month, it's very rarely about who is actually the best player. See Nash's MVP's.

Rings are very rarely about who is the best player either, but no one seems to care. People were actually calling Dirk the best player in basketball last June

 

[GreatestLaker]

So, you put Duncan over Kobe?




Cause I do.

2 MVPs, 4 rings, 3 FMVP is better than 5 Rings, 1 MVP, 2 FMVP

 

[YBE]

So, you put Duncan over Kobe?




Cause I do.

If you want to....

Duncan put in work. Bron hasn't.

 

[verbaltelekinesis]

Well I thought Houston's point was that he would have won 2 rings with Miami. How could he trade Wade for LeBron after the 1st championship?

I don't know if Kobe wins with this team. It's possible I guess, I actually think it was much more likely in 2011 than 2012 since Wade was better last year and Bosh was absent for much of these playoffs. Still, this team isn't as complementary to Kobe as it is for LeBron.

Kobe has always relied on isolation plays and offensive rebounding. When he draws the defense and takes bad shots, his teammates (Shaq, Odom, Bynum, Gasol, etc) have been there to clean up the mess. His playing style needs those bigs. On this Miami team, he'd have to defer and play off the ball a lot more and that has never really been his style. He's also not the defender that LeBron is. He'd likely be playing the 3 in that scenario (Chalmers 1, Wade 2) and he just doesn't have the size and strength that LeBron has.

Oh you meant, a trade that would keep the team intact for two years and not who he could have replaced in those last two years. That's hard, but I think you still replace Lebron. In 2011, I think they definitely win it with Kobe. This year, I would tentatively say yes again. Provided they got the same kind of play out of the reserves. I just feel like would definitely be able to get them through those tough games again Indiana and Boston in the earlier rounds.

 

[verbaltelekinesis]

Rings are very rarely about who is the best player either, but no one seems to care. People were actually calling Dirk the best player in basketball last June

 

[YBE]

Final numbers don't favor Kobe either.

But he outplayed Bron

Bron in the Finals:
.356 .200 .690 7.0 6.8 1.0 22.0 (age 22)
.478 .321 .600 7.2 6.8 1.7 17.8 (age 26)
.472 .188 .826 10.2 7.4 1.6 28.6 (age 27)

Kobe in the Finals:
.367 .200 .909 4.6 4.2 1.0 15.6 (age 21)
.415 .333 .842 7.8 5.8 1.4 24.6 (age 22)
.514 .545 .806 5.8 5.3 1.5 26.8 (age 23)
.381 .174 .920 2.8 4.4 1.8 22.6 (age 25)
.405 .321 .796 4.7 5.0 2.7 25.7 (age 29)
.430 .360 .841 5.6 7.4 1.4 32.4 (age 30)
.405 .319 .883 8.0 3.9 2.1 28.6 (age 31)

 

[28 Gramz]

So, you put Duncan over Kobe?




Cause I do.

LeBron won't need much to pass Kobe in terms of titles, considering he's been the best player in the league these last couple of years with Kobe in it.

Kobe's on his 16th season, of course Lebron has been better these last few seasons, nikka is a old man in NBA years.

*still better than Wade though*

 

[GreatestLaker]

Rings are very rarely about who is the best player either, but no one seems to care. People were actually calling Dirk the best player in basketball last June

After the 08 Finals people like Wilbon were saying Pierce was better than Kobe and Lebron.

 

[GreatestLaker]

But he outplayed Bron

Bron in the Finals:
.356 .200 .690 7.0 6.8 1.0 22.0 (age 22)
.478 .321 .600 7.2 6.8 1.7 17.8 (age 26)
.472 .188 .826 10.2 7.4 1.6 28.6 (age 27)

Kobe in the Finals:
.367 .200 .909 4.6 4.2 1.0 15.6 (age 21)
.415 .333 .842 7.8 5.8 1.4 24.6 (age 22)
.514 .545 .806 5.8 5.3 1.5 26.8 (age 23)
.381 .174 .920 2.8 4.4 1.8 22.6 (age 25)

What are those averaged?

They look about even to me.

 

[YBE]

But he outplayed Bron

Bron in the Finals:
.356 .200 .690 7.0 6.8 1.0 22.0 (age 22)
.478 .321 .600 7.2 6.8 1.7 17.8 (age 26)
.472 .188 .826 10.2 7.4 1.6 28.6 (age 27)

Kobe in the Finals:
.367 .200 .909 4.6 4.2 1.0 15.6 (age 21)
.415 .333 .842 7.8 5.8 1.4 24.6 (age 22)
.514 .545 .806 5.8 5.3 1.5 26.8 (age 23)
.381 .174 .920 2.8 4.4 1.8 22.6 (age 25)
.405 .321 .796 4.7 5.0 2.7 25.7 (age 29)
.430 .360 .841 5.6 7.4 1.4 32.4 (age 30)
.405 .319 .883 8.0 3.9 2.1 28.6 (age 31)

What are those averaged?

They look about even to me.

learn how to read a statline breh

fg 3pt freethrow rebs assists blocks points

Kobe played better in the Finals as a youngin.

Kobe played better in the Finals as a veteran.

Stop being a moron