What's this Black folk were in America before slaves were brought over????

[MischievousMonkey]

That testing sounds suspect,who did the test?who was apart of the testing?
After investigating,it looks like this testing came from 23 and Me
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/12/genetic-study-reveals-surprising-ancestry-many-americans

I don't neccesarily believe in those dna test things these companys do,and I think some of them have been clearly proven not all that accurate as you can get differnt results from different companys. But some of what they are saying is logical sense,that I could have told them without doing dna test. Much of my family and people I know who have native american ancestry are from the midwest. But we can definitely say this test didn't clearly prove any thing about AA's as a group.

No.

23andMe did an average of all the African American DNA they tested and came to these results. But all the DNA testing companies came to the same conclusion.

That's not all. Several geneticists were also interested in the subject and pursued research on it:

Tales of African-American History Found in DNA

"In the new study, Dr. Gravel and his colleagues analyzed the DNA of 3,726 African-Americans who participated in three separate medical studies.

The scientists were able to pinpoint stretches of DNA in the subjects that originated on different continents. According to their calculations, the ancestors of the average African-American today were 82.1 percent African, 16.7 percent European and 1.2 percent Native American.

Dr. Gravel and his colleagues also estimated when those genes were introduced."

The geneticists are Canadians.

Here, it's researchers for Penn State University:

BlackDemographics.com | African American DNA

"What they discovered contradicts some of the previous studies on the subject where it was thought that Blacks were about 30% white. They conclude that the average Black American is 17-18% white. But this is an average and it depends on the location."

I think this is enough proof I don't even really want to talk about that as we know the history of the subject

 

[Silver Surfer]

damn...I got to read through all of this at work....

 

[MischievousMonkey]

So this pretty much just means the "out of africa" theory is just a theory. But its a fact that "black" people were on the earth first,and we inhabited everywhere at some point in time. Them being of "african descent" isn't really an important part of this I don't think.

So what are we talking about? See, this shows perfectly how shaky the concept of race is. What is "black" according to you?

 

[Samori Toure]

Basically you got a small minority of Black people who think cuz a few AA's have Native American look a likes, that means we the same people. They literally have no proof besides a few books written by cats they never met before and YouTube videos made by nut cases who ask silly questions like "where the slave ships at then?"

It's really no different than joining other movements like the Flat Earthers, the Hebrew Israelites, etc. It's a way to be one of the few "woke" ones who knows the "truth" while everyone else doesn't.

Mansa Abu Bakr II of Mali and his squadron may have actually gotten to the Americas.

BBC News | AFRICA | Africa's 'greatest explorer'

 

[Roland Coltrane]

also this thread on quora
breh goes in a lot longer than what I copy pasted here but I highly suggest y'all peep the link
https://www.quora.com/Were-African-Americans-the-original-Native-Americans

Were African Americans the original Native Americans?


21 Answers




Hernanday Oleary, Knows about Red people
Answered Jun 10, 2016 · Author has 831 answers and 1.2m answer views







Yes they were. I’ll post my response to another poster in denial of the facts. You are right, they kidnapped 12 million Africans from Africa, Africans were also getting kidnapped by the arabs to the tune of 15 million, supposedly enslaving whites too, and less than 5% of the slaves with just a 7 year life expectancy allegedly produce millions of people. The African Americans who first came to America were the Folsom Indians and they were the first people in North America.

Harvard Professor Roland B Dixon and Leo Weiner prove this as do peer reviewed studies and others. African Americans were the original native indians.

He wasn’t just some random professor he was the Vice President of The American Academy of Arts and Sciences, frequently known as the American Academy one of the oldest and most prestigious honorary societies and a leading center for policy research in the United States.

They are still teaching skulls and race in classes today and it is not debunked. If so when was this debunked? I certainly never heard of physical anthropology being debunked, it is still being used by crime labs today to identify race of victims. Dixon is considered to be one of the main influencers on modern anthropology along with his colleague Franz Boas.

“Abstract

Background: Controversy surrounds the time period when Indigenous Mexican-African admixture occurred. Most researchers assume this admixture took place after the Atlantic Slave Trade. But, Spanish eyewitness accounts, Mayan skeletons with sickle cell anemia, and West African skeletal remains generally,indicate that there were Black Native Mexican and Meso-American communities in Meso-America before 1492. Using genetic association studies of available Indigenous Mexican and African genome-wide SNP genotypes and HLA we infer the probable pre-or post Columbian date for the admixture. Here we analyze the historical and archaeogentic literature relating to the American foundational haplogroups and HLA to extract ancestry information detailing when Indigenous Mexican-African admixture took place.

Results: Indigenous Mexican and African archaeogenetic, DNA and HLA resources were analyzed to determine to what extent admixture had occurred between these populations. The sample indicated that Indigenous Mexican-African admixture has taken place across Mexican fundamental male and female lineages; and that Africans and Indigenous Mexicans share HLA alleles. In addition, archaeogenetic evidence including, African [Mande] inscriptions, Mande substratum in Mayan languages, Africans depicted in Mayan murals at San Bartolo and Xultun, African skeletons generally, and ancient Mayan skeletons with sickle cell anemia support Spanish eyewitness accounts of Black Native American tribes [Otomi, Chontal (Mayan speaking group) ,Yarura and etc.] in Meso-America when they arrived on the scene.

Conclusion: We demonstrate that given the age of the African skeletons, excavated at Meso-American archaeological sites and Spanish eyewitness accounts of Black Mexicans, Indigenous Mexican- African admixture occurred prior to the European discovery of America. The date for the African skeletons indicate that there were several waves of West Africans who probably introduced African haplotypes into the Americas. The 25,000 Malians who sailed to America in 1310 probably had a major influence on the exchange of African genes in the Americas.”

Inference Of Ancient Black Mexican Tribes And DNA

Open Access Biomedical Publisher Using Post Publication Peer Review

This is a peer reviewed article. You need to respond to specific facts, not just so and so is a big boo boo head.

The other professors are finding heads that look like this as the Olmecs and Mayans

Underhill, et al noted that:" One Mayan male, previously [has been] shown to have an African Y chromosome." - Underhill, et al (1996) " A pre-Columbian Y chromosome specific transition with its implications for human evolutionary history", Proc. Natl. Acad. Science

USA

, Vol.93, pp.196-200.

Paul Manansala has observed that:

Mestizos in Mayan or nearby areas show significant African admixture.

The East Coast had extensive admixture according to a recent study by

Lisker et al. ("Genetic Structure in Mesoamerica," _Human Biology_,

June 1996). The following percentages of African ancestry were found

among East coast populations:

Paraiso - 21.7%

El Carmen - 28.4%

Veracruz - 25.6%

Saladero - 30.2%

Tamiahua - 40.5%

“There has been a persistent claim that the oldest skulls in the America show “non-Native American” structures.”

I’ve never heard of this, whoever was here in the pre-colombian era would be considered a native American. The fact that it keeps coming up from the founding of modern anthropology that there are African native Indians, it would seem folly to at least not look into these facts.

 

[Wisdomkeyz]

Mansa Abu Bakr II of Mali and his squadron may have actually gotten to the Americas.

BBC News | AFRICA | Africa's 'greatest explorer'

This is the only proof we have though all that other shyt is kinda pseudo scientific

But Abu Bakr had to land somewhere

 

[Swagnificent]

So this pretty much just means the "out of africa" theory is just a theory. But its a fact that "black" people were on the earth first,and we inhabited everywhere at some point in time. Them being of "african descent" isn't really an important part of this I don't think.

Exactly. This whole African descent thing is just a play on words. As if it makes a difference whether these people came straight from Africa or stopped for a few years in the Pacific Islands before making it to America.

It doesn't matter how direct their route was from Africa to the Americas. The point here is the people who first landed on America looked no different than Africans. That's the point. Not whether they came directly from Africa.

 

[Sankofa Alwayz]

Read the book They Came Before Columbus by Ivan Sertima.

This is a well known fact nowadays. There's too much evidence to support it. Mainstream historians do their best to dismiss it and the Smithsonian museum covers up all archeological finds on this matter because it dismantles American History that is based on Columbus finding America first

If the country/world knew this truth, not only would American history have to be rewritten but world history as well. They don't want that.

If it hasn’t been recommended already, The First Americans Were Africans by Dr. David Imhotep is another good one.

I HIGHLY recommend OP and anyone else to pick up When The World Was Black Parts 1 and 2 by Dr. Supreme Understanding and C’BS Allah. These two have done some of the most in-depth and unbiased amount of research I have ever seen as it relates to anthropology, archaeology, natural sciences, formation of the stars and space, melanin, religion/spirituality, the history and culture of Black people around the world since we’ve first walked the Earth, and more. They got into deep depth about what the Americas were really like before the crackkkas arrived and the deep yet hidden history between Black peoples and Native Americans and our presence on this side of the Atlantic.

Here’s the link to their website. They got a deal on those books right now. You can find them at your local Black bookstore btw: http://supremeunderstanding.com/product/untold-history/

I also agree with their statements that Black people were never really a predominant group in the Americas like that but we were still here and we’ve made our presence known in Native American society in some (rather significant actually) shape or form, most notably within Native American spirituality, mythology, trade/commerce, agriculture, relationship with Nature, architecture, and craftsmanship. In some cases, we were even a small elite within some Native American civilizations (most notably the Olmec). We were a minority within these Native American societies (I’m willing to bet we were no more than 20% of the population in some of them like the Olmec and Maya) but we’ve had a MAJOR influence within these ancient American cultures despite our small presence....It’s just like how Black people here in the States only represent 13% of the overall population but we’ve laid the foundations for this country and our culture and ingenuity is where this country gets all of its swag and innovation from, however unlike in the ancient American societies, our contributions in contemporary America (both the States and the rest of Anglo-,Spanish-, and Portuguese-America) is either downplayed, watered-down, or vehemently covered up

 

[Swagnificent]

you ever notice how these cac academics and historians have no problem saying Vikings were here before Columbus

They not gonna say that anymore once they find out the Vikings were black as well. Yup. You heard that right. Original Vikings were actually black. The whole idea of the Vikings being white is a myth. This book breaks it all down: Ancient and Modern Britons

 

[Roland Coltrane]

10 Pieces of Evidence That Prove Black People Sailed to the Americas Long Before Columbus

Columbus Himself

“According to renowned American historian and linguist Leo Weiner of Harvard University, one of the strongest pieces of evidence to support the fact that Black people sailed to America before Christopher Columbus was a journal entry from Columbus himself. In Weiner’s book, “Africa and the Discovery of America,” he explains that Columbus noted in his journal that the Native Americans confirmed “black skinned people had come from the south-east in boats, trading in gold-tipped spears.”

Linguistic Similarities

Studies done by researchers such as Ivan Van Sertima (They Came Before Columbus), Alexander Von Wuthenau (Unexpected Faces in Ancient America), Runoko Rashidi and others have presented evidence that clearly show that the Olmecs were not Indians with “baby faces,” or Indians who looked like Blacks (although a few Olmecs did mix with the Native Americans). They were Africans no different from Africans found in the Mende regions of West Africa.
Studies done by Clyde Winters show that the Olmecs used the Mende script, a writing system used among the Mandinkas and other Africans in West Africa. When the writings on Olmec monuments were translated, it was found that the language spoken by the Olmecs was Mende.

There have been many instances of archaeologists discovering skulls and skeletons that they believed clearly belonged to people of African descent. Polish professor Andrzej Wiercinski revealed the discovery of African skulls at Olmec sites in Tlatilco, Cerro de las Mesas and Monte Alban. Even more ancient African skeletons that would clearly predate Columbus’ arrival in the Americas were discovered throughout Central America and South America with some even being unearthed in what is now California.

Christopher Columbus wasn’t the only European explorer who made note of an African presence in the Americas upon his arrival. Historians revealed that at least a dozen other explorers, including Vasco Nunez de Balboa, also made record of seeing “Blacks” when they reached the New World. The accounts match up with the reports from the natives in Mexico. Nicholas Leon, an eminent Mexican authority, recorded the oral traditions of his people and ultimately kept track of a key piece of evidence that Black people made it to the New World far before their European counterparts. His reports revealed accounts from natives saying “the oldest inhabitants of Mexico were blacks. [T]he existence of blacks and giants is commonly believed by nearly all the races of our sail and in their various language they had words to designate them.”

According to Paul Alfred Barton, the author of “A History of the African-Olmecs: Black Civilizations of America from Prehistoric Times to the Present Era,” ancient kingdoms in West Africa have a long history of trade by sail, which made it all the more likely that they eventually expanded their trade to the Americas. While the Sahara is a dry desert today, its past as a lake-filled, wet and fertile place has been well-documented. African ships often crossed these large lakes to get from place to place and traded with other African civilizations along the way. After expanding their trade to the Americas, they certainly made their mark as things like African native cotton were soon being discovered all across North America.

Gigantic Stone Heads in Central Mexico

The Olmec civilization was the first significant civilization in Mesoamerica and deemed “Mother Culture of Mexico” by some historians. This civilization dominated by Africans is best known for the colossal carved heads in Central Mexico that serve as even more evidence that Africans sailed to the New World before Columbus. The heads are clearly crafted in the likeness of Africans. The same civilization that created these giant heads was also responsible for introducing written language, arts, sophisticated astronomy and mathematics to Mesoamerican civilization, ancient African historian Professor Van Sertima explained.

Some people insist that Africans couldn’t have made it to the New World first simply because they didn’t have the skill and resources to sail across the Atlantic. As it turns out, that’s completely false. Historians have discovered evidence that suggests Africans were masters at building ships and that it was actually a part of their tradition. Shipbuilding and sailing are over 20,000 years old in the Sahara, and cave wall paintings of ancient ships were displayed in National Geographic magazine years ago. With those shipbuilding skills and the navigation skills that were noted by other historians of the time, the myth that Africans wouldn’t have been able to sail to the New World becomes officially debunked. As Dr. Julian Whitewright, a maritime archaeologist at the University of Southampton, explained, the voyage from Africa on ancient ships was “quite a plausible undertaking, based on the capabilities of the vessel of the period and historical material stating it took place.”

The evidence is very overwhelming.


You have 3 more professors saying that the pre-colombian Indians are of african origin coming from the US national Museum in DC, Division of Physical Anthropology and producing it in one of the most highly regarded anthropological and scientifc publication.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

 

[Roland Coltrane]

“Then a forensic artist, Richard Neave from the University of Manchester, UK, created a face for Lucia. The result was surprising: "It has all the features of a Africoid face," says Dr Neave.”

So you want me to believe forensic science is wrong?

The idea that the Olmecs are related to Africans was suggested by José Melgar, who discovered the first colossal head at Hueyapan (now Tres Zapotes) in 1862

Stirling, p. 2, who cites Melgar, Jose (1869) "Antigüedades mexicanas, notable escultura antigua", in Boletín de la Sociedad Mexicana de Geografía y Estadística, época 2, vol. 1, pp. 292–297, Mexico, as well as Melgar, Jose (1871) "Estudio sobre la antigüedad y el origen de la Cabeza Colosal de tipo etiópico que existe en Hueyapan del cantón de los Tuxtlas" in Boletín de la Sociedad Mexicana de Geografía y Estadística, época 2, vol. 3, pp. 104–109; Mexico.

So was the Mexican who invented the concept also afrocentric?

“A lot of claims would be debunked, and so some resaerchers would be embarrassed and have egg on their face, and this would reduce the level of interest that these remains generate (which might have financial impact). So, they are colluding not to genetically test her and kind of let the nonsense linger about.”

As someone who has worked in the field, it is the age of the samples that make finding testable dna hard. You have to crack open the teeth and hope that the pulp didn’t completely rot away because if it did you have nothing to test. We are talking 13,0000–10,000 year old samples, and you are getting just mtdna. You need nuclear, you need see what the breakdown is or at least a large sample of mtdna + y-dna samples. They struggled to get DNA samples from alot of mummies who were almost 10,000–7,000 years younger.

How could white Brazilians benefit from not testing a native indian who has a african looking skull? I don’t get it. they are not even arguing it is white.

And which claims were debunked. That Kennewick man was white, I think that was debunked to a great degree, however this has nothing to do with Africans as the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

“There is no evidence for an ancient Africoid population in the New World. The DNA is solidly Amerind with a rather tight bottleneck of founding populations, which makes it even more distinct.”

You may not be aware of the evidence is a more accurate statement, we have literally dozens of scientist who have presented evidence ranging from Linguistics, art, archaeology, physical anthropology and so on. It is not accurate to say there is no evidence of africoid populations in the New World, when in many cases the professors are pointing out they predate the Mongoloid species. Actually the one DNA test showed only 11% of Native Indians had that DNA and it was far more common in Eurasian groups.

The point I will agree on is there a distinct lack of the DNA profiles of the ancient samples, particularly in meso-america and Brazil.

The evidence is overwhelming however on the physical anthropological terms that the original Natives of the Americas were indigenous African peoples.

At this point, there are over 100 professors, experts, scientist and researchers of all races pointing out that the indigenous Americans were African people. Some detractors want to claim this is just afrocentric hoogey pogey, but they cannot explain why it was actually indigenous mexican and a white professors who were the first people in modern academia to make these claims, although to be fair it was documented in the journals of Colombus and the mongoloid native indians had told him that the Blacks had been there before him.

 

[Self_Born7]

What evidence do they have to suggest Africans DIDN'T dwell here prior to European conquest?

According to my readings and studies, all manner of Ancient Egyptian artifacts and masonry were found buried in supposed "native American" mounds. How?

The Olmecs, Mayans and Aztecs all worshiped black faced dieties. The building of Mayan pyramids follow the same constructural patterns as those found in Africa.
Sculptures of the giant Olmec heads depict fully black peoples. Wide noses, full lips, thick hair. These Olmec civilizations predate the Aztec, Mayans and Incas.

steel sharpens steel!
these are all FACTS!

 

[Self_Born7]

There is no place on this place where we didnt touch down first. these cacs first came into history no more than 5000 years ago, its a fact that even they own will state.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

I would say more of us are mixed with native american than we are a product of white rape. As much as that is whats used to explain why we supposedly don't look as "pure" african as other africans.

You’ve probably heard it before. Perhaps from your friends or some random person you met. More often than not, many Black people say that they have “Indian” in their family. So much so that it’s become a running joke in the Black community. But some really do believe that they do have a lineage of Native American in their bloodline because of the grade of their hair and/or high cheek bones. But in looking at the true line of African Americans, the truth is, many do not have “Indian in their family”. Here’s why:

Those high cheekbones and that straight black hair derive from our high proportion of white ancestorsand not, for most of us, at least, from our Cherokee great-great-grandmother on your daddy’s side (*sigh*). DNA doesn’t lie (just ask Maury).

But seriously, according to genealogist and scholar, Henry Louis Gates, Jr, a small percentage of African Americans do have significant amounts of Native American ancestry, though almost no black American person today has as much Native American ancestry as they do European ancestry, by quite a long shot. (This does not include black people of Hispanic origin, in that Hispanic Americans tend to have far more Native American ancestry than African Americans do.)



Here are the statistics: Whereas virtually all African Americans have a considerable amount of European ancestry in their genomes, only 19 percent have at least 1 percent Native American ancestry, and only 5 percent of African American people carry more than 2 percent Native American ancestry. How do these percentages translate into ancestry? Well, if you have 5 percent Native American ancestry in your mix, that means you had one Native American ancestor four to five generations back (120 to 150 years ago). If you have 2 percent Native American ancestry, you had one such ancestor on your family tree five to nine generations back (150 to 270 years ago). One percent of Native American ancestry means that this ancestor entered your bloodline six to 10 generations back (180 to 300 years ago).

This timeframe, however, presents a problem for explaining Native American ancestry in blacks. By 1715, few Africans had arrived in North America through the slave trade. In fact, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, only about 29,800 Africans had disembarked from slave ships by 1714 (half before 1700 and half after)—a very small part of the 388,000 or so Africans who would eventually arrive here and from whom most of us are descended. The first of three large waves of Africans would surface in this country only after 1714. By 1750, for instance, some 145,970 had arrived. But most of these, as we can see, arrived after 1714. Therefore, for most of us, the odds of being descended from an African who arrived in North America before 1700 and mated with a Native American, although possible, are very small.

The real major exception in American history to the absence of contact between Native Americans and African Americans, is with the so-called Five Civilized Tribes—the Creek, the Choctaw, the Cherokee, the Chickasaw and the Seminole. They were located in the Southeast, in parts of what are now Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Florida, until they were forcibly moved to Indian Territory, which became…

…the state of Oklahoma in 1907, in the dreadful Trail of Tears during the 1830s. They were known as “civilized,” in part, because they owned black slaves.

But even in these tribes, the number of slaves was quite small: According to the 1860 census, four of these tribes (the largest being the Cherokee) owned 7,369 slaves, compared to a total of 3.9 million slaves in the United States that same year. Nevertheless, black slaves made up about 12.5 percent of the total population in Indian Territory in 1860, a sufficient ratio within a recent enough period to mate rather broadly and leave a significant genetic legacy among African Americans today. Claudio Saunt stresses that these figures are undercounts, but the total numbers are tiny, even if we double them (404 free black people also were living in Indian Territory that same year).

In other words, if you can trace your ancestry to black ancestors living in what is now Oklahoma between 1840 and 1908, your chances of being among the “genetic 5 percenters” is much higher than for any other African Americans. And chances are you probably do have a significant amount of Native American ancestry. If you don’t descend from ancestors who lived with these Native American tribes or in Oklahoma, the odds are much greater you have very little Native American ancestry.

Maybe the better question is, why are most Black people not happy just to have “African” in their family?