Best way I can describe LL is, if you take his top 10 best songs vs. anyone else, he can compete with any emcee ever. But if you take his top 100 songs vs anyone else, he will probably lose to everyone in the top 50 lmao.
I can say this very same thing for Merle Mel, Rakim, Kane, G. Rap, and Slick Rick - but folks in here
would put them over L...
So nah, this ain’t the hill to die on in this discussion - there aren’t too many rappers
with a Top 100 that is straight up & down phirr. 50 is stretching it for a lot.
He is one of the all time greats, he has that "It" factor being superstar in his era, having longevity and most importantly not being afraid of challenge and responding back to these rappers. When you can end someone's like canibus career with one line "99% of his fans don't exist", you know he's on some GOAT shyt. LL definitely at least is a top 10 of all time.
Cool J is literally the blueprint for what a complete MC would be seen as after he dropped his first few albums. He can make any kind of record and has more than a few classic tracks for pretty much every category there is in the genre. He's the culture's first real superstar and also has one of the game's best runs. Anyone that says he just makes records for girls or whatever, doesn't know shyt about dude's catalog, lol. At all. Only a handful of MC's have had a 20 year career. He's had a 20+ year run with actual hits. That doesn't happen often in Hip Hop, or any other genre for that matter. Dude has always been Top 10, which is why he's the last person anyone should want to battle. He ended Moe Dee and Canibus' careers with jokes about their lives and music. Because there's literally nothing you can say about dude in a battle that can insult his run. He had the career every MC wanted back then. It's damn near untouchable.
Because he raps for "women". But the craziest thing about the goat is once upon a time KRS, Slick Rick, Rakim, D.O.C., G Rap, Kane were goat contenders and they all faded away, but 2Pac and Biggie remain 30 years later. That's insane especially when neither were considered goats in life.
That’s real. I also think production has a lot to do with that. Those songs sound so outdated because of the production (KRS-1 , Rhakim), but Someone like Tupac for example would never sound outdated to that extreme. While the records are old, he had Dre, Daz, Quick and some of the greatest producers of all time behind those records to go along with his unique persona and lyrics. All Eyes on Me definitely sounds like it’s from a different era, but the production is so crisp that it always sounds great
We all recognize and respect his contributions to the game, the impact and longevity is crazy, but nobody really has him top 5.
A) jay, nas, pac, big are pretty much unarguable names that are bound to show up in most people's top 5 and everyone's top 10.
B) then you have names that will show in only some top 5 list but most top 10 lists like rakim, kool g rap, eminem, cube, etc.
C) but then you have names that aren't really in anybody's top 5 and hardly in top 10 either but are still recognized as legendary MCs regardless such as KRS-One, Prodigy, andre 3000, Slick Rick, Big Pun, DMX, maybe 50, etc.
I feel like it's most common to place LL in C but he deserves to be in AT LEAST B if not A. What is his career/skillset missing that takes away from his claim to GOAT?
this a flabby ass topic but discuss flabrehs
that moment when you high af thinking about high shyt and go to make a post about it but now you're not only pondering about the complexities of your initial thought but rather how your thread will be perceived to the masses
To be fair, although ll cool although he had some weird questionable lyrics, he was a solid mc. He wasn't ever criticize for being whack. He had couple wack moments but he had ability to make a comeback and was one of the first to transcend many generations in hip hop with mainstream relevancy into film tv and not get caught up in the mix (beefs). LL Cool J sort of isolated himself from the hip hop scene even though he is has that satellite radio old school and stuff.
The issue was LL Cool J and the detachment of the last two or so generations of hip hop heads and The last twenty years ll cool j didn't participate in the "hip hop" scene taking photos with rappers in clubs popping bottles and doing collab or mix tapes with latest rapper or beefs or dating known celebs during these past twenty years.
Ll Cool J is not part of a crew or click that also attached to him. Like JayZ had dame,Rockefella under that tree you have Kanye and producers, and others things tied to JayZ and his businesses are known and his brand and his known wife etc.....so his name besides his talent still rings bells
I think cause Biggie died and Biggie name and those surrounding biggie and biggie's urban brand is till relevant and his attachment to those who kept his name alive and the attachment to Pac situation and controversy beef with Pac and Pac himself with controversy and cult following, kept his name going, JayZ manage to stay relevent doing collabs ,and being in the scene and part of movement.amd beyonce and Nas have strong following and his peers love him, that whole circle bunched up together in the mix and others while ll cool j and will Smith types took film and tv more seriously and every generation doing their own things as ll cool j didn't do the club scene like JayZ or collabs with drake lil wayne or with many types or got into the latest drama ,beef,gossip in the last twenty years or so.
Ll Cool J diffinetely deserved his due cause he was well rounded music for the block(not gangsta) music for the cars, music for the ladies,music for the clubs, music older can listen too and the blueprint doing film and tv and not hurting the image of hip hop
A lot of his peers do regard LL as one of the goats.
I think there is an element of some Pac fans unfortunately see LL as a rival and low key hate when the small so called issue was about quincy jones daughter and the spirit of hip hop o.petition.
Then again I'm surprised rock and roll hall of fame didn't induct ll cool j.
Ll was one of the first to have a hip hop love ballad and of course MC Shan gets credit too.
Ll cool j had urban and crossover hits consistently
Ll cool J cornered the market on being versatile by showing how you can make songs for the ladies, like pac said, the ladies will buy your album's.
Ll cool j took def jam to the next level cause when def jam first started they had other artists like the underground rapper TLA Rock (salute to him) but LL Cool J paved DeF Jam the lane for def jam to go to next level ultimately because Def Jam became big and signed more artist's.
Ll Cool J was one of the first to go platinum consistently ll cool j transitioned successfully to film and television .
I guess...maybe...the technical aspect, the bars...LL got a bunch of classic songs none of us can deny, and he's an icon for sure, but as far as the bars go, I dont know man. Kool G Rap, Kane and later on Nas, Biggie, Jigga, The WU and so on, all elevated the artform as far as rapping goes.
Parrish said that the concept for LL's part was supposed to be like a Charlie's Angels' boss behind the screen kinda thing. That's a weird ass concept, but definitely on some Cool J shyt. He always had those kinds of weird ideas, lol.
Because he raps for "women". But the craziest thing about the goat is once upon a time KRS, Slick Rick, Rakim, D.O.C., G Rap, Kane were goat contenders and they all faded away, but 2Pac and Biggie remain 30 years later. That's insane especially when neither were considered goats in life.
Technical skill.
He never developed advanced rhyme patterns.
BIG wasnt as technically advanced either but he definitely was aware of certain techniques and started getting into that bag heavier in 1996.
(Keep Your Hands High - Tracey Lee)
LL never went through that lyrical growth spurt most high ranking rappers went through from 1994 to 1996. Nas and Jay included.
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