Awesome Wells
The Ghost of Jack Tripper
None of this is true.
What is LL Cool J missing that keeps him out of real GOAT discussion?
- Thread starter BBG
- Start date
None of this is true.
Eastside Get The Money
Veteran
He’s Dr. J. He’s a legend and an innovator but his dribbles and jumper wasn’t all that.
Same thing with LL, living legend but besides a few joints in the mid 90s he didn’t have the bars for GOAT talk
Same thing with LL, living legend but besides a few joints in the mid 90s he didn’t have the bars for GOAT talk
I think it was a body double, and he couldn't make the shoot.
CHAIN
All Star
Educate me, brother.
Awesome Wells
The Ghost of Jack Tripper
Couple points, no OG Hip Hop fan back in the day, would ever say that someone couldn’t be the GOAT if they didn’t have “advanced rhyme patterns.” That whole argument and term didn’t start popping up until Hip Hop expanded and white kids in the suburbs started listening.
That would mean that dudes like Cube and Pac shouldn’t be on anyone’s GOAT list because they didn’t have so-called “advanced rhyme patterns”. And those two are clearly respectable picks if someone has them in their Top 10. If “advanced rhyme patterns” are what you need to be the GOAT, dudes like Godfather Don and Lord Have Mercy would be on everyone’s list. They’re not. And very few are as advanced as those dudes when it comes to rhyme patterns.
If you listen to LL’s actual albums, anyone can see that he definitely stepped up lyrically from MSKYO to Mr. Smith and kept getting better all the way to the GOAT album. He wasn’t rhyming on the same level in ’94, that he was in ’90. There’s mad songs that show that. So to say that he didn’t develop, just isn’t true.
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CHAIN
All Star
I feel you but...
I'm not disputing his legendary status but there's a reason he's not on a lot of lists.
His classics aren't lyrical songs.
I'll just leave it at that.
Appreciate the break down.
Awesome Wells
The Ghost of Jack Tripper
What list isn't he on that matters?
I've seen dude on every one of them, from MC's, when they speak on their GOAT's and influences.
As far as just LYRICAL SKILLS, LL is generally not considered to be on the level of anybody you named in A.B. or C except maybe Pac and 50. That is what keeps him out of those GOAT conversations, because he pretty much excels in all other categories.We all recognize and respect his contributions to the game, the impact and longevity is crazy, but nobody really has him top 5.
A) jay, nas, pac, big are pretty much unarguable names that are bound to show up in most people's top 5 and everyone's top 10.
B) then you have names that will show in only some top 5 list but most top 10 lists like rakim, kool g rap, eminem, cube, etc.
C) but then you have names that aren't really in anybody's top 5 and hardly in top 10 either but are still recognized as legendary MCs regardless such as KRS-One, Prodigy, andre 3000, Slick Rick, Big Pun, DMX, maybe 50, etc.
I feel like it's most common to place LL in C but he deserves to be in AT LEAST B if not A.
What is his career/skillset missing that takes away from his claim to GOAT?
this a flabby ass topic but discuss flabrehs
that moment when you high af thinking about high shyt and go to make a post about it but now you're not only pondering about the complexities of your initial thought but rather how your thread will be perceived to the masses
Awesome Wells
The Ghost of Jack Tripper
"Father" was dope.
He had joints about God and positive tracks about staying away from street life. He's pretty much done every kinda topic there is.
Illegal Search came to mind after I wrote that
And of course Accidental Racist
(I have never even heard that shyt)
My contribution to this thread is that by the mid 90’s LL was looked at as a “Star” more so than an MC. LL was like Will Smith. He had it ALL. The charisma, the good looks (Pause), the talent, to do ANYTHING he wanted. It almost felt kind of weird to only look at him as a rapper because he was more of a pure ENTERTAINER. People forget that LL was starring in his own sitcom, doing commercials, movies, hosting, really diversifying his portfolio in the NINETIES as well as rapping.
When you look at Will Smith, LL, and to a lessor extent Pac, they kind of “transcended” music whereas Nas, Jay, Big, Wu and many of the universally recognized top ten’s EPITOMIZED the music.
With some of the best artists/musicians you feel like they NEED music. They live for it. LL kind of got the tag that he didn’t NEED music as much of it was part of his brand.
When you look at Will Smith, LL, and to a lessor extent Pac, they kind of “transcended” music whereas Nas, Jay, Big, Wu and many of the universally recognized top ten’s EPITOMIZED the music.
With some of the best artists/musicians you feel like they NEED music. They live for it. LL kind of got the tag that he didn’t NEED music as much of it was part of his brand.
I think the story LL has told about the song he did with Mobb Deep says a lot about this. He says when he go to the studio, Prodigy handed him a notepad with the rhyme he had written for him. LL was like "nah dude I write my own rhymes". Picture Prodigy thinking he has to write Nas or G-Raps verses on songs he did with them. It was lightweight disrespectful.
Awesome Wells
The Ghost of Jack Tripper
There were like 50 rappers acting before '92 hit. And acting seriously. That was just a part of the culture back then when Hollywood saw that Hip Hop could open up more viable markets for them. But that didn't take anything away from the MC's who still made dope music. LL was cooking up classics forever. Everyone was on TV shows and in movies back then. It was just a part of the business.
The thing with LL was, he was one of the few who was able to do BOTH without compromising on his catalogue. He could do a cheesy movie, and then jump on a track with EPMD the same month, and cook up a classic. He had a sitcom at the same time that he was doing tracks with BIG, Prodigy, Fat Joe and Busta. That doesn't mean he didn't need the music because the music and being as huge as he was in music, was definitely what afforded him those opportunities to act. Same thing that RZA said about Meth's career. He said that a lot of people in Hollywood are Wu-Tang fans, so that means that "Mef can be acting for the rest of his life if he wants to." That's how it's always worked, the music opens doors for them to branch out into other things.
LL is one of the few to still sell mad records while acting just as much as he was making music. Dude had the number one album in the country 16 years into his career. And was still selling millions of albums with production from Havoc, DJ Scratch and Rockwilder on them, while having blockbuster movies out at the same time. You don’t see shyt like that often in Hip Hop. That's why dudes like KRS, Fat Joe, Nas, Snoop, Slick Rick, Monch, and others have all said L's in their Top 10. Cool J's career is no joke.
