It wasn't him in the video...
What is LL Cool J missing that keeps him out of real GOAT discussion?
- Thread starter BBG
- Start date
It wasn't him in the video...
i know...but i never understand why they went with the fake behind the screen when the real one was around
So what I'm seein' throughout the thread is exactly what I said is LL's Achilles heel: PERCEPTION.
Not so much opinions based on a knowledge of his music beyond the radio records and whatnot... and understandably, some are too young to remember his true prime years... but the things being said like a lack of longevity, Drake comparisons, etc... these things are not quite the case at all
He's one of very few in hip-hop (a rather short list) who put out successful records in three different decades, he succeeded during some of hip-hop's most competitive eras, he remained relevant before and after a lotta dudes had their runs... and as mentioned in here, a lot of the rappers who get saluted all the time cite him as an influence or one of their favorites when they were coming up. At one point, he had clones, he had a lot of young aspiring rappers emulating him, he was once the new kid that everyone was talking about- basically, everything that many of our favorites from the 90s did, he was one of the first to do it.
I remember an article in the late-90s where he was talking about his career and he was basically sayin' there's certain things he's not chasing because he's already done it... the trends at that time like chains and cars and champagne, he was like "I done crashed more cars than a lot of these nikkas bought, I was doin' that 10 years ago". And it's basically true- looking at his career only for his later years is like judging Tyson based on his matches in the 2000s and not realizing that at a time, he was consistently knocking nikkas' heads off in the first round.
Not so much opinions based on a knowledge of his music beyond the radio records and whatnot... and understandably, some are too young to remember his true prime years... but the things being said like a lack of longevity, Drake comparisons, etc... these things are not quite the case at all
He's one of very few in hip-hop (a rather short list) who put out successful records in three different decades, he succeeded during some of hip-hop's most competitive eras, he remained relevant before and after a lotta dudes had their runs... and as mentioned in here, a lot of the rappers who get saluted all the time cite him as an influence or one of their favorites when they were coming up. At one point, he had clones, he had a lot of young aspiring rappers emulating him, he was once the new kid that everyone was talking about- basically, everything that many of our favorites from the 90s did, he was one of the first to do it.
I remember an article in the late-90s where he was talking about his career and he was basically sayin' there's certain things he's not chasing because he's already done it... the trends at that time like chains and cars and champagne, he was like "I done crashed more cars than a lot of these nikkas bought, I was doin' that 10 years ago". And it's basically true- looking at his career only for his later years is like judging Tyson based on his matches in the 2000s and not realizing that at a time, he was consistently knocking nikkas' heads off in the first round.
The stuff about the production... y'all really think LL needed to do records with Premo, Pete Rock, Large Pro?
They're some of my favorite all-time producers, so no dis to them... but honestly they're not the answer to EVERYTHING there is, good lord
It woulda been cool to see it happen a lil' bit here and there, but I don't feel like that was LL's lane. Tone from Trackmasters said before they worked on Mr. Smith, they had a convo with LL. He was tryin' to make all these grimy, street NY records at the time and they told him something to the effect of "that's not what's gonna work FOR YOU. Maybe Mobb Deep, but not YOU. Your best 'hard' records ain't about shootin' people like that 14 Shots album, but when you're bein' a hard lyricist, and your key hit records are songs the women love"... and they were right, seeing as how the album they did together blew him back up like mad. So I don't really see where LL would've won trying to make his own version of Illmatic nshyt. As much as I like Premo/Pete/Large, I just don't feel like that's for EVERYbody, LL being one of 'em.
They're some of my favorite all-time producers, so no dis to them... but honestly they're not the answer to EVERYTHING there is, good lord
It woulda been cool to see it happen a lil' bit here and there, but I don't feel like that was LL's lane. Tone from Trackmasters said before they worked on Mr. Smith, they had a convo with LL. He was tryin' to make all these grimy, street NY records at the time and they told him something to the effect of "that's not what's gonna work FOR YOU. Maybe Mobb Deep, but not YOU. Your best 'hard' records ain't about shootin' people like that 14 Shots album, but when you're bein' a hard lyricist, and your key hit records are songs the women love"... and they were right, seeing as how the album they did together blew him back up like mad. So I don't really see where LL would've won trying to make his own version of Illmatic nshyt. As much as I like Premo/Pete/Large, I just don't feel like that's for EVERYbody, LL being one of 'em.
I didn't say he needed to, just one suggestion on why some exclude him from goat discussions. I dont, he's in my top 10. can't deny it would be very nice to hear tho
FeverPitch2
Superstar
This thread exemplifies the problems with young rap fans.
They don't do their homework.
They just look at rappers from earlier generations, hear a song or two, and make up their own narrative.
They they jump out the window with their hypothesis, swearing it's gospel truth.
Then, nikkas who were there or have done their homework embarrass them with facts and instead of takin the L
they just use the age cop out aka "I was too young, etc"
Which is total horseshyt because it's never too late to get hip to older artists. The information is everywhere.
That's the reason why John Coltrane and Miles Davis are still selling records, books, and movie tickets.
They don't do their homework.
They just look at rappers from earlier generations, hear a song or two, and make up their own narrative.
They they jump out the window with their hypothesis, swearing it's gospel truth.
Then, nikkas who were there or have done their homework embarrass them with facts and instead of takin the L
they just use the age cop out aka "I was too young, etc"
Which is total horseshyt because it's never too late to get hip to older artists. The information is everywhere.
That's the reason why John Coltrane and Miles Davis are still selling records, books, and movie tickets.
But you said two already that bar wise were better, rakim and kane....so that’s his beginning ere, then toward the end of his prime he had to deal with Biggie Nas and eventually Jay....these 5 are the 5 that essentially keep him outta the GOAT convo....cuz they bars are better
Be he Def top 10 tho
LL is #10 on a top ten list and its offensive to not have him on but I don’t logically see how he’d get any higher.
Best way I can describe LL is, if you take his top 10 best songs vs. anyone else, he can compete with any emcee ever. But if you take his top 100 songs vs anyone else, he will probably lose to everyone in the top 50 lmao.
All time great but weak catalogue for his tenure, see also: Eminem, Kool G Rap, Busta Rhymes, etc.
Best way I can describe LL is, if you take his top 10 best songs vs. anyone else, he can compete with any emcee ever. But if you take his top 100 songs vs anyone else, he will probably lose to everyone in the top 50 lmao.
All time great but weak catalogue for his tenure, see also: Eminem, Kool G Rap, Busta Rhymes, etc.
okay check it out since all y'all wanna act so forgiving about accidental racist, for the sake of this thread I'll forget I ever heard it too.
with that being said, how is your post any more respectful than OP lol? sure I said almost nobody has him top 5 and not many have him top 10,
BUT you literally just implied catalog vs catalog he's not top 50 (saying he could win 10 but lose 100 is basically saying nikka catalog is buns except for the hits).
in fact your only real argument for top 10 is... oh wait I just read your post again you didn't even make one
I'm just saying flabby heads, if his lightweight bars keep him from real GOAT status (not all time great status, I'm saying has real claim to be THE BEST OVER THE REST) it isn't disrespectful to acknowledge.
I wanted real musical opinions on the greatness that is LL Cool J, not old ass fanboys that went
when he said he'll put a muscle bound man's face in the sandforget oreos eat LL cookies
I know I talk spicy and it gets nikkas hot but I'm just fukkin around with y'all don't get offended 
Take It In Blood
Banned
when LL called himself the goat in 2000 not many ppl had a problem with it (he had a better claim to it in 2000 than Pac, Big, Jay Z and Nas imo just based of seniority, input and influence, at the time atleast)
but since he pretty much did nothing of value since then he'd be looked at crazy saying that now
hes still top 15-20 to me tho just based off his 80s/90s stuff tho
also there is no goat. Until time actually ends and 4th dimensional species can look back at what we did and rank it
but since he pretty much did nothing of value since then he'd be looked at crazy saying that now
hes still top 15-20 to me tho just based off his 80s/90s stuff tho
also there is no goat. Until time actually ends and 4th dimensional species can look back at what we did and rank it
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The_Third_Man
Superstar
depth and creativity
This.. rap fans are just so lazy.. only genre where the fans hate the pioneers. Ignorant shyt
