What is LL Cool J missing that keeps him out of real GOAT discussion?

[Tommy Gibbs]

who was elite complexity? lol Most will say Rakim but...

"Nice big plate of fish which is my favorite dish, but without no money is still a wish??" ,

No 80's rapper was rapping complexed like most rappers that came in the 90's. Well maybe Kool G Rap or Masta Ace who got way better as the years passed..

you picked ONE Rakim bar as an example of his 80s body of work???? hahaha. are you serious?? You do know that His first 3 albums were written in the 80s. Including Let the Rhythm Hit em. They started recording it in 1989. You can't be serious.. You just can't be. Rakim revolutionized hip hop lyricism. After Follow the Leader album, a lot of rappers started rhyming 2 words at the end of their bars. Look at House Party that dropped in 1990. Before that, Kid n Play weren't rhyming like that. They were dope rappers, but their style was on some Rakim shyt. Peep the Kid vs Play battle in the movie. Peep the Kid in Jail rhyme. Rakim even had a song on the House Party soundtrack

 

[L. Deezy]

you picked ONE Rakim bar as an example of his 80s body of work???? hahaha. are you serious?? You do know that His first 3 albums were written in the 80s. Including Let the Rhythm Hit em. They started recording it in 1989. You can't be serious.. You just can't be. Rakim revolutionized hip hop lyricism. After Follow the Leader album, a lot of rappers started rhyming 2 words at the end of their bars. Look at House Party that dropped in 1990. Before that, Kid n Play weren't rhyming like that. They were dope rappers, but their style was on some Rakim shyt. Peep the Kid vs Play battle in the movie. Peep the Kid in Jail rhyme. Rakim even had a song on the House Party soundtrack

Bro, I know all about Rakim stats. Revolutionized lyrically?? it or just calmed the flows down for rappers??

 

[L. Deezy]

You just cherry picked one line from Rakim. Come on.

And? lol

What was complex about "I know you got soul"?

Rakim is a top 2 80's rapper for me. I guess he in my top 5 all time most days.

 

[mson]

And? lol

What was complex about "I know you got soul"?

Rakim is a top 2 80's rapper for me. I guess he in my top 5 all time most days.

He doesn't have to make every song complex. But the list is long. Follow Leader, Let the Rhythm hit em, Pass the hand grenade, just to name a few.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

Bro, I know all about Rakim stats. Revolutionized lyrically?? it or just calmed the flows down for rappers??

there was absolutely no one lyrically compared to Rakim in the 80s. That's the problem with people that don't know history. I don't blame anyone for being young because you can't help when you were born, but to not know your history is another thing. Think about the top rappers when Rakim first came out.. This was a time when you maybe got 30 rap albums for the whole year. If that man... It's like trying to explain how great Elgin Baylor was to someone that has only ever known Lebron, KD, and Jodan highlights. How do you explain to a teenager that a man who was 0-8 in the finals could be considered as one of the greatest ever? Would they understand how hard it is to be in the Army and the NBA at the same time and only playing half a season and still dropping 40 a game for the year? Do they know he has the finals record for most points in a game. Do they understand all of the stuff Jordan, Lebron, Dr J has done, he was dong it in the 50s and 60s in Chuck Taylors? It's the same way when push button KIDS look at Cash Money's 1988 DMC routine and think, "I can do that now".

So follow me and were ya thinkin' you were first?
Let's travel at magnificent speeds around the universe
What could ya say as the earth gets further and further away
Planets are small as balls of clay
Astray into the milky way - world's outasight
Far as the eye can see - not even a satellite
Now stop and turn around and look
As ya stare in the darkness, ya knowledge is took!
So keep starin soon ya suddenly see a star
You better follow it cause it's the R


That's just a 10 bar scheme about space in 1988. That shyt you see Arsonal and Charlie Clips do on Smack, he was doing this for damn near a whole verse in 88. He did it again 2 years later in "No Omega" and so forth. cmon man, you're making a fool out of yourself questioning why Rakim was great lol. Don't do this please.

 

[L. Deezy]

there was absolutely no one lyrically compared to Rakim in the 80s. That's the problem with people that don't know history. I don't blame anyone for being young because you can't help when you were born, but to not know your history is another thing. Think about the top rappers when Rakim first came out.. This was a time when you maybe got 30 rap albums for the whole year. If that man... It's like trying to explain how great Elgin Baylor was to someone that has only ever known Lebron, KD, and Jodan highlights. How do you explain to a teenager that a man who was 0-8 in the finals could be considered as one of the greatest ever? Would they understand how hard it is to be in the Army and the NBA at the same time and only playing half a season and still dropping 40 a game for the year? Do they know he has the finals record for most points in a game. Do they understand all of the stuff Jordan, Lebron, Dr J has done, he was dong it in the 50s and 60s in Chuck Taylors? It's the same way when push button KIDS look at Cash Money's 1988 DMC routine and think, "I can do that now".

So follow me and were ya thinkin' you were first?
Let's travel at magnificent speeds around the universe
What could ya say as the earth gets further and further away
Planets are small as balls of clay
Astray into the milky way - world's outasight
Far as the eye can see - not even a satellite
Now stop and turn around and look
As ya stare in the darkness, ya knowledge is took!
So keep starin soon ya suddenly see a star
You better follow it cause it's the R


That's just a 10 bar scheme about space in 1988. That shyt you see Arsonal and Charlie Clips do on Smack, he was doing this for damn near a whole verse in 88. He did it again 2 years later in "No Omega" and so forth. cmon man, you're making a fool out of yourself questioning why Rakim was great lol. Don't do this please.

I stopped reading at you calling me young.. that is my era. Rakim is dope. He was different for that time. Like where is his I Gave You Power? Or his REWIND? He was great for his time..but 90s guys brought in complex rap.

Its not debatable

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

I stopped reading at you calling me young.. that is my era. Rakim is dope. He was different for that time. Like where is his I Gave You Power? Or his REWIND? He was great for his time..but 90s guys brought in complex rap.

Its not debatable

you want to know where his "i gave you power" is at? "the ghetto". In the 2nd verse of that song, he rhymed in the first person pov of a fetus. Then later that year, Cube released "the product" doing the same. 7 years later, Monch did it with "invetro", then Canibus came with "I honor you" in 98. 1999 saw Nas do "belly button window" and it's the only song that anyone acknowledges of the 5 because people don't know their history. Also in 92, he rhymed in the first person pov of a military solider in "Casualties of war" in which he decided to commit treason and turn on his own platoon due to the war against his Muslim brothers. So basically, Rakim dropped a song in 1990 that Nas did in 1999 and you didn't even know it

 

[L. Deezy]

you want to know where his "i gave you power" is at? "the ghetto". In the 2nd verse of that song, he rhymed in the first person pov of a fetus. Then later that year, Cube released "the product" doing the same. 7 years later, Monch did it with "invetro", then Canibus came with "I honor you" in 98. 1999 saw Nas do "belly button window" and it's the only song that anyone acknowledges of the 5 because people don't know their history. Also in 92, he rhymed in the first person pov of a military solider in "Casualties of war" in which he decided to commit treason and turn on his own platoon due to the war against his Muslim brothers. So basically, Rakim dropped a song in 1990 that Nas did in 1999 and you didn't even know it

Bro.. lets not do this honestly. I dont wanna shyt on Rakim in comparison to Nas or even Big... I just wanna keep it peaceful because its Rakim. ... trust me

 

[Vandelay]

He got labeled more as a ladies man rapper than a bar spitter. Not that he couldn't hang with the best rappers of his day, see 4, 3, 2, 1 and I Shot Ya...albums really fell off quality-wise with Phenomenon onward.

 

[Why-Fi]

And? lol

What was complex about "I know you got soul"?

Rakim is a top 2 80's rapper for me. I guess he in my top 5 all time most days.

he flowed in a jazz/bebop rhythm on that. that shyt was not normal at the time

 

[Toe Jay Simpson]

I put this more on LL than anything. It was marketing. When he started getting serious about acting and got that NCIS role he distanced himself from his legacy thinking that would open up even more doors for him. It’s the same thing Dwayne Johnson did for many years after he left wrestling but he was smart enough to see how the demo grew and came back to it.

LL is PRIME for reclaiming his title with the right album which would cause a surge in interest of his back catalog. He’d also be the first 80s cat to drop a hot one in this decade.

 

[Art Barr]

And? lol

What was complex about "I know you got soul"?

Rakim is a top 2 80's rapper for me. I guess he in my top 5 all time most days.

You tweak'n.

I have not finished reading this entire thread.
As i know it is trash.
compared to this consistent rehash of this thread and it was trash back then too.
I would have to come be the only astute cognitive well versed poster in then as well.
Yet from the quotes i passed from you earlier.

I think you have never really understood the skillset of being an emcee.
That you think styles war based emcees were better. When they were deficient and leaned upon a style.
(Style meaning or is defined as personalized mistakes of a skillset)
All because they could not pocket flows.
wit vocal tonality or convincability. Plus lack technical aptitude to bpm of a sonic landscape.
It was what nas ushered out in the technical renaissance and in that.
most emcees after that still were deficient. Hence why most rappers are offkey and incapable of pocketing flows.
In the sonic landscape changes of rhe rap business to this day. That r kelly written by three piece style rnb features on rap verses. Are now erroneously called rap.
has become what if the police academy efx guy had a computer.
to synthesize and make those offkey sound efx submissions palatable to the human ear.

Coupled with a generation.
who refuses to dig in the crate. Who are preyed upon by this computer synth program. That is thought of as zapp and roger meets peter Frampton and the police academy sound efx officer. Yet is a total different audio program all together.



Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

Bro.. lets not do this honestly. I dont wanna shyt on Rakim in comparison to Nas or even Big... I just wanna keep it peaceful because its Rakim. ... trust me

You really do not know emcee'n and i read that you think i gave you power is this thing. Or nineties emcees were better when they were not better than ol school legacy artist in the new school way of thought's origin..
I gave you power is another nas bite of pharoah monch. Who nas still acts like monch does not exist. When paul c and large pro are and in kindred of one another. You fail like nas to really do your due dilligence and dig in the crate. Plus nas and big in timeline comparison to rakim are complete joke. As neither could pocket flows effectively in any sonic landscape change. That biggie was not effective in vocal tonality on
till he was comfortable in a pop jiggy sonic landscape.
to get what rakim did from his first major label release.
Then proved it in the jody whatley challenge.
That gave nas and big their pop submission and pop status in rap. Five to six years after rakim proved in thr ehatley challenge. you could keep the same skillset on a pop rnb sonic landscape.

You tweaked't and just proved.. You have no idea about the history you say you experienced.
I hate to have to say that to you too.


Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

To be top 5 you need some of these

These are all prison industrial economy rehashes of records.
that if ll cool j did not exist would not even be palatable or even be capable of being made.
Plus if you were cognitive. Of ll and his entire career. You would know it is visual aids ala a documentary styke movie.
from ll's beginning origin. Where ll always was against making what would become.
The viacom slash universal prison industrial economy based and rooted music content as well.
That when ll made those types of records again. succumbing to errant uneducated criticism. to making those records. Ll was critically panned. By ignorant critiques from rolling stones who hated ll cool j because he dissed them for not knowing shyt about hiphop. When ll cool j was right in that declaration as well. As rolling stones and viacom were audiophiles and not knowledgeable to hiphop culture. Where the stones and viacom pr'd and fueled the prison industrial economy style work that ruined human life as we know it.
for making the types of records he already made on wwap on 13 shots to the dome.
Plus they completely ignored he made arguably the best conscience record and birth of emo.
on all we got left is the beat as well.
While also forgetting he made cheesy rat blues on mama said as well. That predated 13 shots to the dome and all we got left is the beat.





Art Barr

Glossary of acronyms


Wwap : walking with a panther



Art Barr

 

[L. Deezy]

You really do not know emcee'n and i read that you think i gave you power is this thing. Or nineties emcees were better when they were not better than ol school legacy artist in the new school way of thought's origin..
I gave you power is another nas bite of pharoah monch. Who nas still acts like monch does not exist. When paul c and large pro are and in kindred of one another. You fail like nas to really do your due dilligence and dig in the crate. Plus nas and big in timeline comparison to rakim are complete joke. As neither could pocket flows effectively in any sonic landscape change. That biggie was not effective in vocal tonality on
till he was comfortable in a pop jiggy sonic landscape.
to get what rakim did from his first major label release.
Then proved it in the jody whatley challenge.
That gave nas and big their pop submission and pop status in rap. Five to six years after rakim proved in thr ehatley challenge. you could keep the same skillset on a pop rnb sonic landscape.

You tweaked't and just proved.. You have no idea about the history you say you experienced.
I hate to have to say that to you too.


Art Barr

This the thing. Nobody had even heard of the Pharoah Monch record until some writer through it out there in a magazine Yall really trying to say that as creative as Nas is, he chose to take a Pharoah Monch song and make one like it on purpose? Lol

I think its disrespectful to Nas. Pharoah a great MC in his own right, maybe its just coincidence.

80s for me was epic for its originality. You had party, afrocentric, Hardcore with Schooly, Just Ice, NWA.. the haircuts, the clothes.. 80s was my shyt.

But the 90s dudes elevated head and shoulders lyrically over 80s guys. Its not really debatable