WB/DC shakeup after Justice League underperforms

prophecypro

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This is more of a stepback than people think. Discussing closing up the DC Films division and putting the movies under the regular WB arm probably decreases less chances of a universe and more regular DC movies and we'll be back to the pre-2010s with probably 3 or 4 franchises to manage and see where they go after (which maybe isnt a bad thing now that I think about it). Also after all the talk of Geoff Johns being the man to fix it and saying that he was in charge of everything from Wonder Woman, this is now pinning an L on him and demoting him seems like they are just trying to hold someone accountable when he seems to have never really had

Look really this feels like Kevin Tsujihara's fault from the jump, if you look at his history hes not really a film and art guy but came into WB to manage their different commercial ventures outside of actual films (Six Flags, on Demand, Warner Home Video...business really). He became president in 2013 and immediatley reacted to the Avengers the year before by giving the blessing of making Man of Steel the launch of a larger universe to copy Marvel (A Superman movie which by the way, dont forget was only made so that WB and DC would not lose the rights back to the Shuster and Siegel estate and had to announce they were going into production before 2010, hence why Cavill was announced late 2010 and why it was initally meant to drop winter 2012).
You can tell hes one of those studio heads who thinks you have to just course correct by responding to the basic loudest complaints its real easy and focus on the products and roll out (Which there has been a lot of for these movies). He would be perfectly working for a studio like Fox or producing Transformer movies where its about tying the toys to the films and that sort of stuff.

Hell he was the one at the start of 2014 who said he wanted the DC universe to be dark cause he saw how Dark Knight trilogy and Man of Steel did and thought it had to all be like that. Snyder works well for the studio getting a movie in on time and budget under a false pretence of correct tone.

It doesnt really fit totally with Warners brand of being an auteur filmhouse that balances with commercial aspirations.

But they've gone through this shyt before, 20 years ago in fact when the Schumacher films were a response to Burton's Returns sequel tied to sell toys and be their own thing, once they had like a year of box office flops they lost trust in their filmmakers but in reality the studio execs mandated so many notes for these films

He doesnt have an artists touch and honestly Nolan was lucky as fukk that he was in that small window at the WB in 00s to make the Dark Knight trilogy because if he was there he would tell him to make like Raimi's Spiderman or Singer's X-men instead of its own thing. He probably fires him after Begins opened with like $53 million and not wait for the legs that it got and realize Batman had to win its audience back from 8 years prior.


Long as he's there they wont get it.
 

Nigerianwonder

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The movie was nothing like BVS or MOS.

Yeah the entire tone of the movie felt off starting with the opening batman sequence. Whether you liked the movie or not nobody can deny that the batman sequences in BVS were the best Batman action sequences ever in live film. How he was moving and fighting.

Also I think folks underestimate how much of poor main villain hurt this movie too. Nobody cares about steppenwolf but had they billed Darkseid as the villian as planned then the hype would have been much bigger.. Even casual comic fans at least know the name and equate him with the bigger villians. They needed some new star power too. Will smith was a large part of the suicide squad draw. See affleck debut as batman was a big part of the BVS success. They needed an a new A lister for this film. Even a cameo from the Rock would have done it.
 

Dominic Brehetto

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Yeah the entire tone of the movie felt off starting with the opening batman sequence. Whether you liked the movie or not nobody can deny that the batman sequences in BVS were the best Batman action sequences ever in live film. How he was moving and fighting.

Also I think folks underestimate how much of poor main villain hurt this movie too. Nobody cares about steppenwolf but had they billed Darkseid as the villian as planned then the hype would have been much bigger.. Even casual comic fans at least know the name and equate him with the bigger villians. They needed some new star power too. Will smith was a large part of the suicide squad draw. See affleck debut as batman was a big part of the BVS success. They needed an a new A lister for this film. Even a cameo from the Rock would have done it.
You sell your universe as darker and grittier,then ditch that a few movies in and wonder why your new film is doing the lowest box office of all the film's :francis:

Justice isn't some terrible movie,but it sure is fukking mediocre and it sure was a spit in the face of the fans of the dceu up to this point.
 

reigun

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Yeah, agreed. What did the public say to make JL become so negative? Based on what I heard from a friend, the movie was similar to BVS.
All the production mixups with JL were a direct result of the reception to BvS. From changing it to a one part instead of the planned two partner, the reshoots, the mandated runtime, trying to turn it into a Whedon movie when production had already ended and they didn't want to delay it. All of that because the reception to MoS, BvS, and Squad weren't great despite all three making money.

I'd bet Vegas money we see them shift again if Aquaman, WW2, and Shazam are hits because that compromises whatever reboot plans they have. Even if you avoid comparisons to Marvel, this is not a good look for a studio of WB's size and prestige
 

MenacingMonk

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Justice League is a stitched together Frankenstein film made up of scenes by two different directors.


BVS pacing issues were because they made Snyder cut out 30 minutes of the film. This was fixed in the ultimate cut.
I guess the writing was on the wall with JL. You can't have 2 directors on; that's 2 different visions.

BVS DC was very good despite its flaws it still had. I was referring to the theatrical version before.

Watch the JL BR have 2 different cuts: Whedon and Snyder versions. :mjlol:
 

Dominic Brehetto

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I guess the writing was on the wall with JL. You can't have 2 directors on; that's 2 different visions.

BVS DC was very good despite its flaws it still had. I was referring to the theatrical version before.

Watch the JL BR have 2 different cuts: Whedon and Snyder versions. :mjlol:
Yeah like I said look at this objectively.

If Johns and berg came on,demand reshoots that cost $50-100 million,and the film is going to lose them $50-100 million and the biggest discussion around the film is people wanting to see the film before the reshoots...well thats an absolute failure of Johns and berg.
 

MikelArteta

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They rushed their universe trying to compete with the mcu. But it took the marvel 4 years before they made the avengers and they all already had their own standalone films. Universe building takes time, they need to just blow this shyt up and start over.

should have done a flash solo and aquaman solo before dropping
 

reigun

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Yeah like I said look at this objectively.

If Johns and berg came on,demand reshoots that cost $50-100 million,and the film is going to lose them $50-100 million and the biggest discussion around the film is people wanting to see the film before the reshoots...well thats an absolute failure of Johns and berg.
That wasn't their call though. Aquaman is the first (and now, likely last) the two of them had any real power on.

The moment them BvS opening weeking numbers hit, Justice League became WB's movie more than Synder, Whedon, Johns, or Berg's. Which makes the fact that their solution is to give themselves even more power and control super hilarious.
 

Dominic Brehetto

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That wasn't their call though. Aquaman is the first (and now, likely last) the two of them had any real power on.

The moment them BvS opening weeking numbers hit, Justice League became WB's movie more than Synder, Whedon, Johns, or Berg's. Which makes the fact that their solution is to give themselves even more power and control super hilarious.
Well I think it came out that Whedon was Johns and berg idea.
 
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This is more of a stepback than people think. Discussing closing up the DC Films division and putting the movies under the regular WB arm probably decreases less chances of a universe and more regular DC movies and we'll be back to the pre-2010s with probably 3 or 4 franchises to manage and see where they go after (which maybe isnt a bad thing now that I think about it). Also after all the talk of Geoff Johns being the man to fix it and saying that he was in charge of everything from Wonder Woman, this is now pinning an L on him and demoting him seems like they are just trying to hold someone accountable when he seems to have never really had

Look really this feels like Kevin Tsujihara's fault from the jump, if you look at his history hes not really a film and art guy but came into WB to manage their different commercial ventures outside of actual films (Six Flags, on Demand, Warner Home Video...business really). He became president in 2013 and immediatley reacted to the Avengers the year before by giving the blessing of making Man of Steel the launch of a larger universe to copy Marvel (A Superman movie which by the way, dont forget was only made so that WB and DC would not lose the rights back to the Shuster and Siegel estate and had to announce they were going into production before 2010, hence why Cavill was announced late 2010 and why it was initally meant to drop winter 2012).
You can tell hes one of those studio heads who thinks you have to just course correct by responding to the basic loudest complaints its real easy and focus on the products and roll out (Which there has been a lot of for these movies). He would be perfectly working for a studio like Fox or producing Transformer movies where its about tying the toys to the films and that sort of stuff.

Hell he was the one at the start of 2014 who said he wanted the DC universe to be dark cause he saw how Dark Knight trilogy and Man of Steel did and thought it had to all be like that. Snyder works well for the studio getting a movie in on time and budget under a false pretence of correct tone.

It doesnt really fit totally with Warners brand of being an auteur filmhouse that balances with commercial aspirations.

But they've gone through this shyt before, 20 years ago in fact when the Schumacher films were a response to Burton's Returns sequel tied to sell toys and be their own thing, once they had like a year of box office flops they lost trust in their filmmakers but in reality the studio execs mandated so many notes for these films

He doesnt have an artists touch and honestly Nolan was lucky as fukk that he was in that small window at the WB in 00s to make the Dark Knight trilogy because if he was there he would tell him to make like Raimi's Spiderman or Singer's X-men instead of its own thing. He probably fires him after Begins opened with like $53 million and not wait for the legs that it got and realize Batman had to win its audience back from 8 years prior.


Long as he's there they wont get it.
Yeah this is my main gripe with DCU. Dont treat us like we cant see through your bullshyt. Every other entertainment outlet DC has is solid and thats because theyre not rushing and bs trying to compete with Marvel. Its shameful how they tried to speed this through. You cant rush world-building, slow cooking is what makes the atmosphere and mystique of these flicks.


I think they'll figure it out. The characters arent the problem its these transparent plots and sloppy edits. shyt bugs me.because when Marvel started there CU I thought of how DC should do it and Im positive my bored day dreams woulda held up better than what they gave us lmao
 
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