Was Slavery and the Oppression of Blacks revenge for The Moors?

Bawon Samedi

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To sum up:

1. The moorish conquest of Spain was carried out by the Ummayads.

2. The Ummayads were not black.

3. You claimed you were talking about moors who predated the Ummayads.

4. I asked who you were referring to.

5. You told me to re-read the thread.

Breh, I'm not above learning new things. Who conquered Spain prior to the Ummayads?


1. Though the Ummayads used Moorish infantry for the invasion...
2. Who the heck said the Ummayads were black??? You're not grasping at all that the Ummayads was made up of MANY ethnic groups(conquered); the Moors included. The Moors were the ethnic group from the Maghreb, since they were so close to Iberia(Spain), the Ummayads used mostly them for the invasion.
3. The term "Moor" predates the Ummayads.
4. Who am I refereeing if you mean by the Moors? The Berbers and other indigenous ethnics of the Maghreb.

And what do you mean who conquered Spain prior to the Ummayads? No one, besides the Romans. I think you're confused. When I said the Moors predates the Ummayads, I meant the term ITSELF. It was a term used by the Greeks/Romans to described black skinned people of the Mauritania province(Morocco). I don't know why the heck you keep bringing up the Ummayads or keep thinking their synonymous with the Moors, when the Ummayads unlike the Moors(Berbers) aren't even from North Africa, but later came.
 

J-Nice

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Anyone have any books on The Moors that they want to recommend? :mjpls:
 

Trajan

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1. Though the Ummayads used Moorish infantry for the invasion...
2. Who the heck said the Ummayads were black??? You're not grasping at all that the Ummayads was made up of MANY ethnic groups(conquered); the Moors included. The Moors were the ethnic group from the Maghreb, since they were so close to Iberia(Spain), the Ummayads used mostly them for the invasion.
3. The term "Moor" predates the Ummayads.
4. Who am I refereeing if you mean by the Moors? The Berbers and other indigenous ethnics of the Maghreb.

And what do you mean who conquered Spain prior to the Ummayads? No one, besides the Romans. I think you're confused. When I said the Moors predates the Ummayads, I meant the term ITSELF. It was a term used by the Greeks/Romans to described black skinned people of the Mauritania province(Morocco). I don't know why the heck you keep bringing up the Ummayads or keep thinking their synonymous with the Moors, when the Ummayads unlike the Moors(Berbers) aren't even from North Africa, but later came.

Ah my bad, you were talking about the term Moor. While I meant the actual conquest of Spain by Muslims (moors).

Regardless, my point still stands. When people speak of the Moorish conquest of spain, they mean these Arab dynasties. Isn't that what afrocentrists try and take credit for? I've seen Tariq Nasheed clown a dude and hang up on him because he made this point.
 

Bawon Samedi

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Ah my bad, you were talking about the term Moor. While I meant the actual conquest of Spain by Muslims (moors).

Regardless, my point still stands. When people speak of the Moorish conquest of spain, they mean these Arab dynasties. Isn't that what afrocentrists try and take credit for? I've seen Tariq Nasheed clown a dude and hang up on him because he made this point.

But the majority of the soldiers of the Moorish conquest of Iberia were Moors led by Middle Easterners... Even though they were under the Ummayads, many Moors were still government official and generals in Spain.

"Afrocentrics" take credit for the Moors bringing new ideas and technology to certain parts of Europe, which is true. Not all Moors were soldiers.
 

Trajan

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But the majority of the soldiers of the Moorish conquest of Iberia were Moors led by Middle Easterners... Even though they were under the Ummayads, many Moors were still government official and generals in Spain.

"Afrocentrics" take credit for the Moors bringing new ideas and technology to certain parts of Europe, which is true. Not all Moors were soldiers.

Really? Source?

I find that hard to believe, especially when at the time of the conquest of Southern Spain the Muslim world was centred around the Arabian Peninsula. Why would the majority of Umayyad forces be black when the vast majoirty of Muslims at the time were not?

Islamic_Empire_3_Cities120.jpg




Also, I'm not denying that black Muslims took part in the invasion nor their contribution thereafter. But the Moors were not ''a group of black men swag surfing in Europe'' :beli:
 

KOohbt

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Really? Source?

I find that hard to believe, especially when at the time of the conquest of Southern Spain the Muslim world was centred around the Arabian Peninsula. Why would the majority of Umayyad forces be black when the vast majoirty of Muslims at the time were not?

Islamic_Empire_3_Cities120.jpg




Also, I'm not denying that black Muslims took part in the invasion nor their contribution thereafter. But the Moors were not ''a group of black men swag surfing in Europe'' :beli:

Can't forget the almoravids. They were Africans.
 

Bawon Samedi

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Really? Source?

I find that hard to believe, especially when at the time of the conquest of Southern Spain the Muslim world was centred around the Arabian Peninsula. Why would the majority of Umayyad forces be black when the vast majoirty of Muslims at the time were not?

Islamic_Empire_3_Cities120.jpg




Also, I'm not denying that black Muslims took part in the invasion nor their contribution thereafter. But the Moors were not ''a group of black men swag surfing in Europe'' :beli:


Who the heck said anything about "swag surfing" please don't put things in my mouth.

But to answer your point it seems you forgot when I said this "2. Who the heck said the Ummayads were black??? You're not grasping at all that the Ummayads was made up of MANY ethnic groups(conquered); the Moors included. The Moors were the ethnic group from the Maghreb, since they were so close to Iberia(Spain), the Ummayads used mostly them for the invasion." What do you mean center of Muslim world? Northwest Africa was under the control of the Ummayad Caliphate, but why the heck would Arabs outnumber the native Berbers in troops. Northwest Africa was used as a launching point for the invasion of Iberia. Northwest Africa which was many of the military posts for the Ummayad Caliphate, so again why the heck wouldn't Berbers/Moors outnumber Arabs in the invasion. Just look at your own map. But more importantly:
The conquering army was made up mainly of Berbers, who had themselves only recently come under Muslim influence. It is probable that this army represented a continuation of a historic pattern of large-scale raids into Iberia dating to the pre–Islamic period, and hence it has been suggested that actual conquest was not originally planned. Both the Chronicle and later Muslim sources speak of raiding activity in previous years, and Tariq's army may have been present for some time before the decisive battle. It has been argued that this possibility is supported by the fact that the army was led by a Berber and that Musa, who was the Umayyad Governor of North Africa, only arrived the following year — the governor had not stooped to lead a mere raid, but hurried across once the unexpected triumph became clear. The Chronicle of 754 states that many townspeople fled to the hills rather than defend their cities, which might support the view that this was expected to be a temporary raid rather than a permanent change of government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania#Invasion
 

observe

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The term was originally used for Mauritanians in the Roman Province of Mauritania ,they were black african at the time. Later on during roman and Vandal periods, the black people in the land were breeded out and vanquished. .

The term MOOR is not exclusively used for African people. It was an ambiguous terms that even described some Middle Easterners who were muslim.Europeans called many people dark skin, even today some people still consider Moroccans and North Africans Dark Skin.

Just take a look at the dictionary definition.


this is all facts..Moor means darker than white..so moors can be arabs or blacks..the black moors they called blackamoors..what you guys don't understand is that these are famous libraries in spain where scholars have studied at
Biblioteca Castilla La Mancha

Bibliotecha de la Real Academia De La Lengua, Madrid

El Escorial Library, San Lorenzo

Salamanca Library, Salamanca



this is where you can learn about moors and not some dudes on hidden colors dvds or tariq nasheed
 
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Blackking

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:duck: what routes..arabs taught europeans how to sail....christopher columbus accidently discovered america because he was trying to get asia..and no moor has ever been a better sailor than Christopher Columbus:mindblown:..you know that less than 1% of the top sailors in the world are on Christophers Columbus level of sailing..its a known fact..
Why do you think it is that CC brought black people to the Americas on his voyages.... that were not slaves or members of his original crew?

They were free and African.

I don't know the answer, so I'm asking.
 

J-Nice

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Why do you think it is that CC brought black people to the Americas on his voyages.... that were not slaves or members of his original crew?

They were free and African.

I don't know the answer, so I'm asking.
Look up a former slave by the name of Estevanico. Also, it is said that Columbus used maps made by the Moors themselves on his journey to Asia that ended up in the Americas.
 

J-Nice

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this is all facts..Moor means darker than white..so moors can be arabs or blacks..the black moors they called blackamoors..what you guys don't understand is that these are famous libraries in spain where scholars have studied at
Biblioteca Castilla La Mancha

Bibliotecha de la Real Academia De La Lengua, Madrid

El Escorial Library, San Lorenzo

Salamanca Library, Salamanca



this is where you can learn about moors and not some dudes on hidden colors dvds or tariq nasheed

Most people aren't gonna travel to Spain to read in the library. That is why information on the DVD's were a good starting point for people to do their own research and not take everything said at face value.
 

J-Nice

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More info on the Moors

Moors and Arabs:
When the Romans entered West Africa in 46 B.C., they saw Africans and called them Maures, from the Greek adjective Mauros, meaning dark or black. It is from Mauros and the Latin term Marues that the word Moor is derived. Since the inhabitants of North Africa were black, the Romans and later the Europeans called them Moors. It is no coincidence that the land inhabited by the Moors was called Mauritania and Morocco, meaning "Land of the Blacks."
In the beginning of the seventh century, the Arab prophet, Muhammad, began to preach the word of Islam. Consumed with religious fervor, the Arabs sought to spread Islam and conquer the world. By 708, the Arabs had overrun North Africa. Consequently, Moors in large numbers accepted Arabic as the national language and converted to their conqueror's religion, Islam. After the fall of the Roman Empire (fifth century), Spain was held by a barbaric white tribe, the Visigoths. Though they were Christians, their brand of Christianity was cruel and unjust. For this reason, Spain's Jews, serfs, and slaves looked favorably upon the arrival of a new civilization in which they would be able to live free of persecution.

Tarik, a great African chief, was given the rank of general in the Arab army and sent to raid Spain. On April 30, 711, Tarik landed on the Spanish Coast with 7,000 troops. His troops consisted of 300 Arabs and 6,700 native Africans (Moors). An ancient source, Ibn Husayn (ca. 950, recorded that these troops were "Sudanese", an Arabic word for Black people.

The Moors were unstoppable, and Visigothic Spain ceased to be. The few resisting Visigoths fled to the caves of the Cantabrian Mountains. Later in the century, the cave dwellers would venture out of the Cantabrian Mountains and reclaim parts of northern Spain.

The Moors of Africa were the real conquerors. When the Arabs arrived, the hardest part of the job had been done. Instead of treating the Moors fairly, the Arab chiefs assigned themselves the most fertile regions. The dissatisfied Moors were not long in coming to blows with the Arabs. (The History of Spain by Louis Bertrand and Sir Charles Petrie - published by Eyre & Spottiswood, London, 1945, page 36). Ultimately, the Moors acquired two-thirds of the peninsula, which they named Al-Andulus.

Al -Andulus was obliged to pay tribute to the Arab Caliph (King) of Damascus. As Al-Andulus acquired its own identity, its bond with the Caliph began to weaken. In 756, Al-Andulus proclaimed itself an independent state. Thus, its only links to the Arabs would be the Islamic faith and the Arabic language.

The Moorish architectural remains in Cordoba, Seville, and Granada prove conclusively that these cities were more prosperous and artistically more brilliant than any Christian cities in Europe at the time. The Moors of Al-Andulus held the torch of leaning and civilization when the rest of Europe was plunged in barbaric ignorance.

If Moorish Spain had been an accomplishment of the Arabs it would have been called Arab or Arabic Spain. Instead it bears the name of its creators, the Moors, i.e., Moorish Spain.
- Yvonne Clark
 

KOohbt

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I really need to sit down with my Moroccan mother and discuss the info she knows and bring that info here. Usually our convos devolve into how fukked up white folks are lol. Her pops taught her well.
 
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