was Michael a better Godfather then Vito?

[Taadow]

Sicilian.

Still, Tom was the right guy to takeover, lawyer, educated, he could have moved the family to legitimate halls of power that Vito wanted.

Tom HAgen should have been the Don, he was Vito down to a t, but not italian.
fukked up when you think about it.

No way - y'all are glossing over the fact that Tom was not "one of them".
Because of that he couldn't even be a Made Man, much less a Don!

...and, you for reals can't be a lawyer and a Don...

 

[Taadow]

I don't think they should be compared, cause every failure of Michael is a direct reflection on Vito. Michael's failures are Vito's failures.

Go deeper...

 

[KravenMorehead™]

Go deeper...

Vito Corleone had 3 facets highlighted in the film:

• He had high testosterone/ Highly masculine,
• He was very emotional about family, emphatic, understanding, and generally tender-hearted.
• He was Machiavellian; Calculated.

Each part of him enhanced the other two, and all 3 parts coalesced to bring us the balanced Vito we know and love.
The thing is, When he gave birth to his sons, each son got just one of those character traits, without the other two to balance it out:

• Brash masculinity went to Santino
• Soft heartedness went to Fredo
• Machaivellian nature went to Michael.

Here's an example of the Fredo in him.


Here's what Michael got:


Lemme highlight the hot temper that he passed down to sonny.

In the very beginning of the film, when Amerigo Bonasera — the funeral parlour owner seeking revenge for the disfiguring of his daughter — is weeping as he tells his story, when he walks away from whispering that he wants the culprits dead, you can see the disgust in Vito Corleone's face. That's suppressed emotion. He wants to spaz out on Bonasera for being a p*ssy, but he can't, cause sonny's in the room. But that reasoning isn't revealed immediately...

You see his general feelings for Bonasera again right after he's left the room.

Later on during the Wedding celebration, Johnny Fontaine, A singer and one of Vito's Godsons, is expressing a problem in the same home office that Bonasera and all the others made requests in. He's crying cause he fell off and he's being rejected for a part in a movie that would bring him back to prominence. This time Santino isn't in the room, so Vito cuts loose:

right as he's going in on Johnny, Santino walks in. Soon as Vito notices that, he Switches back to stoic Godfather mode. That's when he hits Johnny with the "you spend time with your family? Good, cause a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."

That classic quote is actually an in-the-moment improvisation. See he knows that Sonny got his hot temper from him, so he hides it whenever Sonny's around, for fear that Sonny would feel validated in that behavior, and become worse.

And that's where he fukked up.

If he woulda noticed the traits that his kids lacked early on in life, and, instead of fukkin hiding his traits, Gave his kids knowledge of self, explained where those character traits came from, and instilled specific values in each individual son to rectify those imbalances, Each son would've made better judgement calls, and all the errors they made would have been avoided.

• Sonny's L came from errors of him being too hotheaded.
• Fredo's L came from errors of him being too tenderhearted.
• Michael's L came from errors of him being too Machiavellian.

All three traits came from Don Vito.

And since he's their father and he failed to spot those character imbalances and make early efforts to correct them, All their failures fall squarely on him.

 

[Mr. Negative]

Vito Corleone had 3 facets highlighted in the film:

• He had high testosterone/ Highly masculine,
• He was very emotional about family, emphatic, understanding, and generally tender-hearted.
• He was Machiavellian; Calculated.

Each part of him enhanced the other two, and all 3 parts coalesced to bring us the balanced Vito we know and love.
The thing is, When he gave birth to his sons, each son got just one of those character traits, without the other two to balance it out:

• Brash masculinity went to Santino
• Soft heartedness went to Fredo
• Machaivellian nature went to Michael.

Here's an example of the Fredo in him.


Here's what Michael got:


Lemme highlight the hot temper that he passed down to sonny.

In the very beginning of the film, when Amerigo Bonasera — the funeral parlour owner seeking revenge for the disfiguring of his daughter — is weeping as he tells his story, when he walks away from whispering that he wants the culprits dead, you can see the disgust in Vito Corleone's face. That's suppressed emotion. He wants to spaz out on Bonasera for being a p*ssy, but he can't, cause sonny's in the room. But that reasoning isn't revealed immediately...

You see his general feelings for Bonasera again right after he's left the room.

Later on during the Wedding celebration, Johnny Fontaine, A singer and one of Vito's Godsons, is expressing a problem in the same home office that Bonasera and all the others made requests in. He's crying cause he fell off and he's being rejected for a part in a movie that would bring him back to prominence. This time Santino isn't in the room, so Vito cuts loose:

right as he's going in on Johnny, Santino walks in. Soon as Vito notices that, he Switches back to stoic Godfather mode. That's when he hits Johnny with the "you spend time with your family? Good, cause a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."

That classic quote is actually an in-the-moment improvisation. See he knows that Sonny got his hot temper from him, so he hides it whenever Sonny's around, for fear that Sonny would feel validated in that behavior, and become worse.

And that's where he fukked up.

If he woulda noticed the traits that his kids lacked early on in life, and, instead of fukkin hiding his traits, Gave his kids knowledge of self, explained where those character traits came from, and instilled specific values in each individual son to rectify those imbalances, Each son would've made better judgement calls, and all the errors they made would have been avoided.

• Sonny's L came from errors of him being too hotheaded.
• Fredo's L came from errors of him being too tenderhearted.
• Michael's L came from errors of him being too Machiavellian.

All three traits came from Don Vito.

And since he's their father and he failed to spot those character imbalances and make early efforts to correct them, All their failures fall squarely on him.

this breakdown here.... +rep

 

[ig88]

Vito Corleone had 3 facets highlighted in the film:

• He had high testosterone/ Highly masculine,
• He was very emotional about family, emphatic, understanding, and generally tender-hearted.
• He was Machiavellian; Calculated.

Each part of him enhanced the other two, and all 3 parts coalesced to bring us the balanced Vito we know and love.
The thing is, When he gave birth to his sons, each son got just one of those character traits, without the other two to balance it out:

• Brash masculinity went to Santino
• Soft heartedness went to Fredo
• Machaivellian nature went to Michael.

Here's an example of the Fredo in him.


Here's what Michael got:


Lemme highlight the hot temper that he passed down to sonny.

In the very beginning of the film, when Amerigo Bonasera — the funeral parlour owner seeking revenge for the disfiguring of his daughter — is weeping as he tells his story, when he walks away from whispering that he wants the culprits dead, you can see the disgust in Vito Corleone's face. That's suppressed emotion. He wants to spaz out on Bonasera for being a p*ssy, but he can't, cause sonny's in the room. But that reasoning isn't revealed immediately...

You see his general feelings for Bonasera again right after he's left the room.

Later on during the Wedding celebration, Johnny Fontaine, A singer and one of Vito's Godsons, is expressing a problem in the same home office that Bonasera and all the others made requests in. He's crying cause he fell off and he's being rejected for a part in a movie that would bring him back to prominence. This time Santino isn't in the room, so Vito cuts loose:

right as he's going in on Johnny, Santino walks in. Soon as Vito notices that, he Switches back to stoic Godfather mode. That's when he hits Johnny with the "you spend time with your family? Good, cause a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."

That classic quote is actually an in-the-moment improvisation. See he knows that Sonny got his hot temper from him, so he hides it whenever Sonny's around, for fear that Sonny would feel validated in that behavior, and become worse.

And that's where he fukked up.

If he woulda noticed the traits that his kids lacked early on in life, and, instead of fukkin hiding his traits, Gave his kids knowledge of self, explained where those character traits came from, and instilled specific values in each individual son to rectify those imbalances, Each son would've made better judgement calls, and all the errors they made would have been avoided.

• Sonny's L came from errors of him being too hotheaded.
• Fredo's L came from errors of him being too tenderhearted.
• Michael's L came from errors of him being too Machiavellian.

All three traits came from Don Vito.

And since he's their father and he failed to spot those character imbalances and make early efforts to correct them, All their failures fall squarely on him.

Id rep but cant

Never noticed how vito switches up when sonny comes in the room

I do think he did know his kids tho. Cause that line about family was a dig at sonny. He looks right at him when he says it as if he saw sonny and thought of a man who is not spending time wit his fam (wife/kids not the mob).

Knowing his kids is why he wanted michael to be a senator and had fredo workong parties, learning casinos and hosting other made men.

 

[Taadow]

I do think he did know his kids tho. Cause that line about family was a dig at sonny. He looks right at him when he says it as if he saw sonny and thought of a man who is not spending time wit his fam (wife/kids not the mob).

Knowing his kids is why he wanted michael to be a senator and had fredo workong parties, learning casinos and hosting other made men.

YES...

...and this is why (even though it's an interesting take) I can't agree with @KravenMorehead™ 's analysis.

Like you said, Vito knew how Sonny was and was trying to implore him to be different.

He knew how Fredo was, which is why him kept him close to him...until it got too hot, so he sent him to be elsewhere where other people he knew could watch out for him (and perhaps toughen him up)...

He knew how Michael was, which is why he never wanted him involved. And if Michael was as intuitive and calculating as Vito was, then Vito wouldn't have had to explain to him that Tessio was setting him up. And we see throughout the movies that the fact Michael makes brash decisions that don't always work out now that Pop can't advise him show maybe he's not that "Machiavellian".

Each of Vito's children's failures are ultimately their own.
Like Vito said:

"I love my children, but they talk when they should listen."

 

[Tommy Fits]

Vito Corleone had 3 facets highlighted in the film:

• He had high testosterone/ Highly masculine,
• He was very emotional about family, emphatic, understanding, and generally tender-hearted.
• He was Machiavellian; Calculated.

Each part of him enhanced the other two, and all 3 parts coalesced to bring us the balanced Vito we know and love.
The thing is, When he gave birth to his sons, each son got just one of those character traits, without the other two to balance it out:

• Brash masculinity went to Santino
• Soft heartedness went to Fredo
• Machaivellian nature went to Michael.

Here's an example of the Fredo in him.


Here's what Michael got:


Lemme highlight the hot temper that he passed down to sonny.

In the very beginning of the film, when Amerigo Bonasera — the funeral parlour owner seeking revenge for the disfiguring of his daughter — is weeping as he tells his story, when he walks away from whispering that he wants the culprits dead, you can see the disgust in Vito Corleone's face. That's suppressed emotion. He wants to spaz out on Bonasera for being a p*ssy, but he can't, cause sonny's in the room. But that reasoning isn't revealed immediately...

You see his general feelings for Bonasera again right after he's left the room.

Later on during the Wedding celebration, Johnny Fontaine, A singer and one of Vito's Godsons, is expressing a problem in the same home office that Bonasera and all the others made requests in. He's crying cause he fell off and he's being rejected for a part in a movie that would bring him back to prominence. This time Santino isn't in the room, so Vito cuts loose:

right as he's going in on Johnny, Santino walks in. Soon as Vito notices that, he Switches back to stoic Godfather mode. That's when he hits Johnny with the "you spend time with your family? Good, cause a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."

That classic quote is actually an in-the-moment improvisation. See he knows that Sonny got his hot temper from him, so he hides it whenever Sonny's around, for fear that Sonny would feel validated in that behavior, and become worse.

And that's where he fukked up.

If he woulda noticed the traits that his kids lacked early on in life, and, instead of fukkin hiding his traits, Gave his kids knowledge of self, explained where those character traits came from, and instilled specific values in each individual son to rectify those imbalances, Each son would've made better judgement calls, and all the errors they made would have been avoided.

• Sonny's L came from errors of him being too hotheaded.
• Fredo's L came from errors of him being too tenderhearted.
• Michael's L came from errors of him being too Machiavellian.

All three traits came from Don Vito.

And since he's their father and he failed to spot those character imbalances and make early efforts to correct them, All their failures fall squarely on him.

 

[OsO]

I'd go with Michael. I respect Vito but I think Michael had just as much intelligence and gift for strategy, but with the extra skill of knowing when to kill. Michael would put you in a body bag quick and his calculated use of murder saved the family more than once.

Vito made a huge mistake, imo, sending Luca Brasi to spy on Sollozzo which caused a cascade of issues for the family, so that's a big strike against Vito. I don't think Michael made any decisions that bad. What missteps did Michael really make?

 

[Dave24]

Vito is Julius Caesar and Michael is Augustus

 

[Geek Nasty]

I always wonder how it would have been if Sonny never died....I think he would have been an effective don.

I think you answered your own question. He got killed because he wasn't level headed enough to be Don.

 

[FaTaL]

I always wonder how it would have been if Sonny never died....I think he would have been an effective don.

Too much of a hot head, he would of ran the family into the ground

 

[Dave24]

The thing about a life of crime is that the GOAL should always be to turn the blood money into legit money and that should be the END of it. You don't keep it going like Michael did..like Pablo Escobar did. You get the fukk out when you are rich enough and you have frustrated the Feds enough. That's it. Go the Industrialist route and get the fukk out. It can only end in disaster or death. You can't keep being a WHITE COLLAR criminal and getting away with it with technology increasing and someone always being hungry for what's yours. It doesn't work.

@R=G. why hasn't Semion Mogilevich done what you are talking about? He is still doing nothing but crime after crime and getting away with it.

Semion Mogilevich - Wikipedia

 

[R=G]

@R=G. why hasn't Semion Mogilevich done what you are talking about? He is still doing nothing but crime after crime and getting away with it.

Semion Mogilevich - Wikipedia

Hes doing that wild shyt in Russia...not setting up shop in a American city or they would of froze his money a long time ago.

 

[Dave24]

Hes doing that wild shyt in Russia...not setting up shop in a American city or they would of froze his money a long time ago.

Good point breh

 

[Maxine Shaw]

Plus Mike cleaned up and had his sister's husband to the bushes for getting Sonny killed.

To add to this a bit, book Vito knew about the violence but chose not to interfere because Italian tradition forbade him to defend Connie b/c Carlo was the man of the house. Michael said fukk that shyt.

As for family, Michael avenged the death of his brother, the abuse of his sister, and the attack on his father. Let's be real: Fredo wasn't loyal to the Corleones, and for what? Because he wanted his own shyt? I don't think his death was necessary, but it wasn't like it was some great loss.