Was King Tut Black or Arabic?

Tommy Knocks

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They got invade later but they traded, traveled, and enslaved other races. I'm not sure we can say they were purely "Black." Even still, they were East African/ North Africans and most of the people on this board are most likely West African. There is also the remote chance they were Arabic and crossed over from the Horn and settled on the Nile.
that's like saying somalis and ethiopians aren't pure black. or african americans arent pure black. if you read about african americans 3,000 yrs from now, will you say that those people werent entirely black because they had some admixtures within their population here and there? nah. egyptians were black up until the new dynasties.
 

observe

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Hm...as some one who is black, I personally do not think that the Egyptians were "black" based on my own observations and research. Perhaps the later dynasties where there was a lot of Nubian influence absorbed by them particularly after the 25th dynasty. But I don't think Ramses II, King Tut etc etc were "black." Egypt geographically and culturally appears to have a stronger proximity and cultural similarity to the Arabian peninsula (farming techniques, art, some gluttal annunciation of language etc) as opposed to other "black" African ethnicities. As far as a appearance goes, I myself personally do not consider brown skinned North Africans with long curly dark hair as being "black" but more so as clear evidence of the gradation of hues in Africa that become lighter as you travel north.

Oddly enough, from what I've seen, African Americans seem like the only group who vehemently believes that ancient egyptians were "black"...and from what I've witnessed, even native Africans themselves don't agree with that.

But hey, if there's one topic that will get black americans riled up, it's this one :lol:...I've seen this topic come up ffor nearly 15 years about a 100 times on message boards and the same responses and the same anger seeps through in each one of them.


Ya breh..you've been researching alot of cacology...I don't care what native Americans have to say about african countries really..
 

Constantine

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If you're saying that Egypt got traditions frm Africa. Then where did Rome and Athens get theres. Because there was activity in Egypt, Rome, and Athens. that was the triinity mecca of trade and paganism. Africa didnt have that clout. if anything those 3 areas went into Africa and raided.


I believe 3) a mix.
I hope you’re trolling. Because if not, (I know I’m not the smartest person in the world) you sound dumber than a mother fukker. It’s not your fault, because westerners aren’t taught Ancient Egyptian history in school. Ancient Egypt was separated into two kingdoms. Upper Egypt, which bordered current day Sudan/Nubia. The ancient Egyptians of Upper Egypt believed their ancestors migrated from what was then Punt, a region southeast of Upper Egypt. http://www.helium.com/items/2392203-the-mystery-of-punt---ancestral-homeland-of-the-ancient-egyptians The exact location of Punt has been lost to history, but it’s generally believed to have lied in the region which encompasses present day Somalia.
The ancient Egyptians viewed the Land of Punt as their ancestral homeland. In his book “The Making of Egypt” (1939), W. M. Flinders Petrie stated that the Land of Punt was “sacred to the Egyptians as the source of their race.” E.A. Wallis Budge stated that “Egyptian tradition of the Dynastic Period held that the aboriginal home of the Egyptians was Punt…"Origins in Elam and Punt. The distinctive character of the 1st dynasty, which separates it from all that went before, is the conquest and union of the whole land of Egypt. It became thus subject to the falcon-bearing tribe of Horus, which was the natural enemy of the Aunu, the Set-bearing tribe. This falcon tribe had certainly originated in Elam, as indicated by the hero and lions on the "Araq knife handle". They went down the Persian Gulf and settled in the "horn of Africa." There they named the "Land of Punt," sacred to later Egyptians as the source of the race. The Pun people founded the island fortress of Hafun, which commands the whole of that coast, and hence came the Punic or Phoenic peoples of classical history. Those who went up the Red Sea formed the dynastic invaders of Egypt, entering by the Qocier-Koptos road. Others went on to Syria and founded Tyre, Sidon and Aradus
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread534385/pg1?iframe=true&width=95%&height=95%

Lower Egypt, which lies in the region of the Nile Delta and bordered by the Mediterranean Sea, was believed to have been inhabited by Caucasianoid peoples who lived in the Sahara, or on the coast of North Africa. It’s believed they migrated eastward towards the Nile Delta region when the Sahara dried up. Other peoples from the Levant, Orient, and near east also migrated into Lower Egypt, of varying hues of pigment. It was Narmer, a Pharaoh from Upper Egypt (whose ancestors came from Punt, believed to be current day Somalia), who unified Upper, and Lower Egypt. A cursory glance of Egyptian art shows people of varying hues from yellowish, tan, brown, to black. But what one sees, if less one chooses not to see; is the preponderance of Afraciod phenotypes in Egyptian art. Pronounced lips, curly hair, kinky hair, afros, phenotypes that aren’t depicted in art from surrounding regions outside Africa. There are also cultural affinities such as women with braided hair, and beads in their hair, common practices in West Africa. There is also the common practise of circumsion in Ancient Egypt, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision and other African cultures. Some people posit connections between ancient Egypt and the Great Lakes region in Africa. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread926503/pg1

You talk about Greece and Rome influencing Egypt; Egypt was already in decline when Greece was in its classical period. The Latin’s in Latium, and the coast of Italy were ruled by the Etruscans up till I believe 400 BC. Rome wasn’t free to traverse the Mediterranean Sea until after the Second Punic War which ended in 201 B.C. Now I concede it might be inappropriate nomenclature to call the ancient Egyptians black, because people in antiquity didn’t ascribe color to their persons, as far as I know. But they clearly, and quite evidently have Africoid features as depicted in their art.
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As far as linguistics are concerned: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geopedia/Ancient_Egypt
“Ancient Egyptian, with Coptic, forms one branch or family within the Afro-Asiatic linguistic phylum that also includes Cushytic, Semitic, Chadic, Berber, and Omotic, according to most scholars. (Ongota was recently added by some scholars.) Linguists have found that, in general, two principles—“greatest diversity” and “least moves”—can help determine the likely geographical origin of a language phylum, or family. Greatest diversity can be illustrated by the fact that all but one of the Afro-Asiatic families, Semitic, is found exclusively in Africa; the African branches are spread from East Africa north, west, and northwest down the Nile to the Mediterranean coast, Sahara, and west Sahel. This geographical distribution, coupled with the presence of Omotic and Ongota only in Ethiopia—both viewed as having more features in common with ancestral Afro-Asiatic than do the other branches—is interpreted as indicating that Afro-Asiatic originated in Africa. Using the least-moves principle, one can conclude that this distribution is consistent with an origin in Ethiopia, Sudan, or the eastern Sahara. Analyses indicate that ancestral Afro-Asiatic, perhaps dating to 15,000 to 10,000 B.C., was spoken by hunters and gatherers and not farmers or pastoralists (food producers).”

 

Blackking

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King Tut is actually one of the ones that's not up to debate.

If he's not black, then we aren't black... he was probably less mixed then most of us.
 

Poitier

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that's like saying somalis and ethiopians aren't pure black. or african americans arent pure black. if you read about african americans 3,000 yrs from now, will you say that those people werent entirely black because they had some admixtures within their population here and there? nah. egyptians were black up until the new dynasties.

Nikka you brought a post from the earliest of the thread. Get your life.


And why are people talking about hair? Have you not heard about wigs and weaves before? WTF

I guess 2000 years from now, people will think all those colonical nikkaz really had regal grey hair and Black bytchez had straight hair.
 

Tommy Knocks

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Nikka you brought a post from the earliest of the thread. Get your life.

.
um the fact that I didnt even know I was replying in a bumped thread should let you know I got my life busy enough to only be able to realize I'm posting sporadically.
 

Poitier

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um the fact that I didnt even know I was replying in a bumped thread should let you know I got my life busy enough to only be able to realize I'm posting sporadically.

:what:Then why would you reply to one of the earliest points made? Don't you think 13 pages in people would have corrected me? Or do you think you were the only nikka with that information? It's okay to be wrong, only if you're open to learning...
 

pickles

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and arent modern day eritrean people mixed and are diluted africans?
those facial characteristics arent what an african would look like in 5000bc

Nikka what the fukk is a diluted African? Do you realize how fukken big Africa is? You expect all them nikkas to look exactly the same?:stopitslime: Look at the miles of coast line, look at the size of the land mass. All them ships with sailors and travellers from all over the world and other parts of Africa mixing for thousands of years. They all African nikka.



They got the cac from Warrior to play Rhamses in that dumb ass movie.:deadmanny::dead::heh:

 

Tommy Knocks

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:what:Then why would you reply to one of the earliest points made? Don't you think 13 pages in people would have corrected me? Or do you think you were the only nikka with that information? It's okay to be wrong, only if you're open to learning...
man I was not about to go thru 13 pages. :pachaha:
 

D.C Young

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Hm...as some one who is black, I personally do not think that the Egyptians were "black" based on my own observations and research..

they were black


"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)

and

"must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography." ("Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999). pp 328-332)



Perhaps the later dynasties where there was a lot of Nubian influence absorbed by them particularly after the 25th dynasty. But I don't think Ramses II, King Tut etc etc were "black."

King Tut's DNA results where posted in the first couple of pages...it's a huge diagram so you can't miss it...

He was Black with minor non-Black DNA

And Ramses III was comprised of something called E1b1a which is a "sub saharan" dna type. And I guess Ramses II is related to Ramses III so you do the math.



Egypt geographically and culturally appears to have a stronger proximity and cultural similarity to the Arabian peninsula (farming techniques, art, some gluttal annunciation of language etc) as opposed to other "black" African ethnicities.


Ancient Egypt was an African culture.


"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeast African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egyptian in a close relationship with languages spoken today as far west as Chad, and as far south as Somalia. Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons..."

"Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization."


"The race and origins of the Ancient Egyptians have been a source of considerable debate. Scholars in the late and early 20th centuries rejected any considerations of the Egyptians as black Africans by defining the Egyptians either as non-African (i.e Near Easterners or Indo-Aryan), or as members of a separate brown (as opposed to a black) race, or as a mixture of lighter-skinned peoples with black Africans. In the later half of the 20th century, Afrocentric scholars have countered this Eurocentric and often racist perspective by characterizing the Egyptians as black and African....."

"Physical anthropologists are increasingly concluding that racial definitions are the culturally defined product of selective perception and should be replaced in biological terms by the study of populations and clines. Consequently, any characterization of race of the ancient Egyptians depend on modern cultural definitions, not on scientific study. Thus, by modern American standards it is reasonable to characterize the Egyptians as 'blacks' [i.e in a social sense] while acknowledging the scientific evidence for the physical diversity of Africans." Source: Donald Redford (2001) The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p. 27-28 "



And geographically, its civilization was formed in Southern Egypt which by the way, is a place where the Egyptians are still Black.

"The major features of cultural and political development that led to dynastic Egypt originated in southern Egypt"

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geopedia/Ancient_Egypt


As far as farming techniques, yeah Egypt as a nation did interact with other nations or groups and naturally engaged in trade and also naturally adopted ways and techniques etc...key word is adopt....they incorporated techniques into their own system


"Domesticated cattle came from the Sahara but may also have come from the Near East. Considering that wheat and barley agriculture was practiced in Asia (the Near East) 2,000 years before it was in Egypt, it is important to note that the early Egyptian way of life did not change abruptly at this time (around 5000 B.C.), which is what one would expect if Egypt had simply been peopled by farmers migrating from the Near East. These early Egyptians incorporated the new food stuffs and techniques—and likely some people—into their culture and society on their own terms."

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geopedia/Ancient_Egypt
 
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2Quik4UHoes

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Hm...as some one who is black, I personally do not think that the Egyptians were "black" based on my own observations and research. Perhaps the later dynasties where there was a lot of Nubian influence absorbed by them particularly after the 25th dynasty. But I don't think Ramses II, King Tut etc etc were "black." Egypt geographically and culturally appears to have a stronger proximity and cultural similarity to the Arabian peninsula (farming techniques, art, some gluttal annunciation of language etc) as opposed to other "black" African ethnicities. As far as a appearance goes, I myself personally do not consider brown skinned North Africans with long curly dark hair as being "black" but more so as clear evidence of the gradation of hues in Africa that become lighter as you travel north.

Oddly enough, from what I've seen, African Americans seem like the only group who vehemently believes that ancient egyptians were "black"...and from what I've witnessed, even native Africans themselves don't agree with that.

But hey, if there's one topic that will get black americans riled up, it's this one :lol:...I've seen this topic come up ffor nearly 15 years about a 100 times on message boards and the same responses and the same anger seeps through in each one of them.


1. Egyptian civilzation pre-dates anything out of Arabia by thousands of years. How it's so hard to believe that Egyptians were black when they themselves said it in their hieroglyphs is beyond me. Farming techniques, society, math, science, astronomy, etc were developed down the Nile in Sudan and modern Ethiopia/Eritrea since sections of those countries are more equipped for mass agriculture. Humanity was populated from the Rift Valley and civilization through the Nile Valley. :ufdup:

2. AA's aren't the only ones to believe Egyptians were black. It was actually the work of African and West Indian scientists and historians that put all of this together. AA's particular affinity for Egypt came from the Black Pride movement in which things of African origin were celebrated. :ld:

3. To expand further. The reason why black people on the whole claim Egypt is because they transmitted human civilization to the rest of the world. It's a symptom of Ethiopianism which was a philosophy many slaves believed in which simply says that Ethiopians(thereby blacks) are the beginners of the world as we know it and their vitality speaks to vitality of blacks on the whole. Ethiopia was chosen because it's referenced in the Bible many times and they were the only characters whom the slaves knew were blacks which was a source of pride. Not to say that same philosophy can be used, but it can at least explain some of this stuff. :ehh:
 
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Hm...as some one who is black, I personally do not think that the Egyptians were "black" based on my own observations and research. Perhaps the later dynasties where there was a lot of Nubian influence absorbed by them particularly after the 25th dynasty. But I don't think Ramses II, King Tut etc etc were "black." Egypt geographically and culturally appears to have a stronger proximity and cultural similarity to the Arabian peninsula (farming techniques, art, some gluttal annunciation of language etc) as opposed to other "black" African ethnicities. As far as a appearance goes, I myself personally do not consider brown skinned North Africans with long curly dark hair as being "black" but more so as clear evidence of the gradation of hues in Africa that become lighter as you travel north.

Oddly enough, from what I've seen, African Americans seem like the only group who vehemently believes that ancient egyptians were "black"...and from what I've witnessed, even native Africans themselves don't agree with that.

But hey, if there's one topic that will get black americans riled up, it's this one :lol:...I've seen this topic come up ffor nearly 15 years about a 100 times on message boards and the same responses and the same anger seeps through in each one of them.

now that is complete BULLshyt

I know many Africans from Sudan, Ethiopia, and Somalia who claim that the Ancient Egyptians were their ancestors/descendants. Now you can start claiming those people aren't "black" but hey that is your prerogative.

In fact up until the last 200 years, even WHITE people considered the Ancient Egyptians black. Look at the writing of Greek historian Herodotus. He traveled extensively throughout Ancient Egypt and described the people as having BLACK SKIN AND WOOLY HAIR. Now you can say he's a liar or whatever but don't come in here acting like African Americans are the only ones saying this.

All Afro-centrist historians are doing now is simply REMINDING people of how Ancient Egyptians were historically looked at before white supremacy began white washing history.

Oh and one more thing, stop pretending to be black. Just say you a cac who doesn't believe nikkas are capable of making a civilization like Egypt. Its more believable an argument than pretending to be black and making these bs claims.
 

Elle Driver

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I hope you’re trolling. Because if not, (I know I’m not the smartest person in the world) you sound dumber than a mother fukker. It’s not your fault, because westerners aren’t taught Ancient Egyptian history in school. Ancient Egypt was separated into two kingdoms. Upper Egypt, which bordered current day Sudan/Nubia. The ancient Egyptians of Upper Egypt believed their ancestors migrated from what was then Punt, a region southeast of Upper Egypt. http://www.helium.com/items/2392203-the-mystery-of-punt---ancestral-homeland-of-the-ancient-egyptians The exact location of Punt has been lost to history, but it’s generally believed to have lied in the region which encompasses present day Somalia. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread534385/pg1?iframe=true&width=95%&height=95%

Lower Egypt, which lies in the region of the Nile Delta and bordered by the Mediterranean Sea, was believed to have been inhabited by Caucasianoid peoples who lived in the Sahara, or on the coast of North Africa. It’s believed they migrated eastward towards the Nile Delta region when the Sahara dried up. Other peoples from the Levant, Orient, and near east also migrated into Lower Egypt, of varying hues of pigment. It was Narmer, a Pharaoh from Upper Egypt (whose ancestors came from Punt, believed to be current day Somalia), who unified Upper, and Lower Egypt. A cursory glance of Egyptian art shows people of varying hues from yellowish, tan, brown, to black. But what one sees, if less one chooses not to see; is the preponderance of Afraciod phenotypes in Egyptian art. Pronounced lips, curly hair, kinky hair, afros, phenotypes that aren’t depicted in art from surrounding regions outside Africa. There are also cultural affinities such as women with braided hair, and beads in their hair, common practices in West Africa. There is also the common practise of circumsion in Ancient Egypt, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision and other African cultures. Some people posit connections between ancient Egypt and the Great Lakes region in Africa. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread926503/pg1

You talk about Greece and Rome influencing Egypt; Egypt was already in decline when Greece was in its classical period. The Latin’s in Latium, and the coast of Italy were ruled by the Etruscans up till I believe 400 BC. Rome wasn’t free to traverse the Mediterranean Sea until after the Second Punic War which ended in 201 B.C. Now I concede it might be inappropriate nomenclature to call the ancient Egyptians black, because people in antiquity didn’t ascribe color to their persons, as far as I know. But they clearly, and quite evidently have Africoid features as depicted in their art.
6a00e0098226918833011168f056e5970c-pi

kemsit.jpg

image-24.jpg

egyptian-painter-around-1500-bc-chamber-grave-of-an-unknown-scenes-of-the-wall-design-art-poster.jpg

73e.jpg

Tut3.jpg

1323615623_b4a9b2585c_o.jpg

images

FvQPicture4aI3.png

bride1.jpg




As far as linguistics are concerned: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geopedia/Ancient_Egypt




Prolific posting. :wow:
 
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