U.S. deficit and Federal Reserve not brought up?

[Dusty Bake Activate]

that's a complex question with many dimensions to it.

itd be better as a topic for a podcast, but ill lay out the basics here.

-completely reform the central banking system. id make the fed a public entity subject to real congressional oversight.

but this gets tricky because we supposedly have congressional oversight now. but as we see the key to success is not the law itself but rather the enforcement of the law, and regulations do no good without people in place to enforce them.

and ill use this theme throughout my post, the fact that structurally our economy is fine, but the character of the people in charge of the mechanisms of government is what needs to change.

our economy is a mechanical system void of positive or negative qualities, its the people running the economy who create the inequality and instability within the system.

so yes, we will be able to change some things structurally, but what will that matter if we have the same corrupt and incompetent people in charge?

so we need to put systems in place that address accountability as well. if i had complete autonomy i would utilize the power of the masses to leverage compliance from politicians so that if politicians were not doing their jobs they would be held accountable by losing their office, immediately.

nothing trumps the power of the people so if we say they gotta go, then they gotta go, and we dont need to wait until elections to pull people out of office and replace them. the government works for the people, so just like any other organization when the boss says youre fired, youre fired.

ideally you want righteous people in government who possess the proper combination of knowledge, wisdom, and character, and who do the right things for the right reasons without being coerced. but right now we're long on knowledge, but short on wisdom.

so again this is a complex discussion. we can either 1) keep the same politicians in office but put real systems in place that will hold them accountable, or 2) put people with higher character in office.

i support the second option, but in reality either option is going to take a huge effort, both in educating the masses and organizing the masses.

some other policy-based solutions would be:

-eliminate the financial incentive for corporations to take manufacturing overseas, and provide financial incentive for corporations to manufacture within the united states. and also provide incentives for people and corporations to purchase the goods created within the united states. this will help get our deficit back into the positives, which is part of the long term solution for dissolving the debt
-cut military spending by about 70%
-balance how much taxes people/organizations pay by having it go by income
-invest heavily in sustainable energy solutions... tesla had the free energy models back in the 20s we gotta get back on that

these are just some of the basics for the immediate... we can also dig deeper into the long-term solutions that deal with:

-reforming public education, including higher education
-investing in more efficient public trans
-we also gotta clean up the food service industry in the US... farming and food production can create a huge number of jobs and an enormous amount of economic stimulus, and right now the whole american food industry is being completely mismanaged

but regardless of the solution i cant say enough how important regulation and accountability are, especially in the financial sector. when we get responsible leadership in these areas we're good, but until then no solution will work without militant regulation and accountability.

if you can accept this then lets dig deeper and go from generalizations to specifics.





or if you wanna take the word of an MIT/Harvard economist we can just pump 40 billion into the economy every month until the wealth trickles down to the people through the banking system... shalom

You threw out of a lot of things that seem to illustrate your general view of what should be done with the economy as a whole, not specifically what to do about the debt. Some of it I agree with it, some of it I take a lot of issue with, but I don't want to get sidetracked. I'll stick to the debt.

Regarding the debt, I think it's simply not of utmost urgent importance right now. It's definitely a problem, but it's a long-term problem that should be addressed after economic growth is more vibrant and sustainable and unemployment goes down. We're coming out of the worst recession since the Great Depression and to focus on paying down the debt right now would be economic suicide.

The debt crisis is overblown by some because we're not near defaulting on our debts and we still have a pretty good debt-to-GDP ratio.

We're not near insolvent, we can issue bonds, and we have unrivaled military power. Many nations have historically thrived with a higher debt-to-GDP ratio than us. We have to address the debt eventually but it would be insane to not put it on the backburner behind employment, economic growth, housing prices, the deficit, an energy plan, etc. To say we better learn Mandarin is paranoid alarmism, to say the least.

And p.s. say what you want about based Ben Shalom but that motherfukker saved our asses from a 2nd Great Depression...despite ineptitude in Washington. I had a lot of reservations and mistrust myself about the Fed in the wake of Greenspan's flawed policy when they started taking action in 2008 with QE, Operation Twist, and all. But it worked. Economic indicators in the late 2000's weren't quite as bad as they were in the early 30's, but it was dire. At the height of the recent recession, we were losing almost 800K jobs per month, the stock market was nosediving, and the economy was shrinking by 9% one fiscal quarter. 4 years later, the stock market is booming past pre-recession levels, we've had 12 straight quarters of growth, and we're at 7.9% unemployment. It took 11 years to get this unemployment back that low from the start of the Great Depression.

But you want his head on a stake. You're mad at the wrong people.

 

[OsO]

You threw out of a lot of things that seem to illustrate your general view of what should be done with the economy as a whole, not specifically what to do about the debt. Some of it I agree with it, some of it I take a lot of issue with, but I don't want to get sidetracked. I'll stick to the debt.

Regarding the debt, I think it's simply not of utmost urgent importance right now. It's definitely a problem, but it's a long-term problem that should be addressed after economic growth is more vibrant and sustainable and unemployment goes down. We're coming out of the worst recession since the Great Depression and to focus on paying down the debt right now would be economic suicide.

The debt crisis is overblown by some because we're not near defaulting on our debts and we still have a pretty good debt-to-GDP ratio.

We're not near insolvent, we can issue bonds, and we have unrivaled military power. Many nations have historically thrived with a higher debt-to-GDP ratio than us. We have to address the debt eventually but it would be insane to not put it on the backburner behind employment, economic growth, housing prices, the deficit, an energy plan, etc. To say we better learn Mandarin is paranoid alarmism, to say the least.

And p.s. say what you want about based Ben Shalom but that motherfukker saved our asses from a 2nd Great Depression...despite ineptitude in Washington. I had a lot of reservations and mistrust myself about the Fed in the wake of Greenspan's flawed policy when they started taking action in 2008 with QE, Operation Twist, and all. But it worked. Economic indicators in the late 2000's weren't quite as bad as they were in the early 30's, but it was dire. At the height of the recent recession, we were losing almost 800K jobs per month, the stock market was nosediving, and the economy was shrinking by 9% one fiscal quarter. 4 years later, the stock market is booming past pre-recession levels, we've had 12 straight quarters of growth, and we're at 7.9% unemployment. It took 11 years to get this unemployment back that low from the start of the Great Depression.

But you want his head on a stake. You're mad at the wrong people.

it's not about bernake and having his 'head on a stake.' its about the fact we have a complete mismanagement of macroeconomic policy from the top level down, and shalom is just one piece of that puzzle.

and the mismanagement is having two significant and predictable effects: 1) it is creating the environment for the rich to use the mechanisms of government to enrich themselves at the expense of others and 2) it is destroying our economy

how can you think we're not in danger of economic destruction? did you even read that part about:

On August 2, 2011, President Barack Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011, averting a possible financial default. During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course."

you got the congressional budget office telling you this economic trajectory is unsustainable, we cant keep this up.

so the strategies i put forth in my post address more than just the debt problem, they address the FUNDAMENTAL inefficiences in our economic models. there are some very basic things we are doing wrong that if we can change, we can improve economic and social conditions very quickly.

those suggestions should also be used IN CONJUNCTION WITH the community economics model. these are the solutions to our problems right now.

the community economics model is so beautiful because we dont even need cooperation from the govt to do that, because community economics uses the mechanisms of the society that are already in place to do the work. so we can fully implement community economics at any time at any place, thats completely under our control. (if anybody is interested in building on this holla at the kid!)

so i dont see where your optimisms coming from, reading these statistically manipulated reports on low wage jobs being created? or putting faith in the puppeteer system that is the stock market? one can control shifts in the stock market with few hundred billie. you know who has a few hundred billie to piss off in the stock market? banks. do the math. this whole system is fukked from the top down and its only a matter of time before these people and their greed drive the rest of us off an economic cliff while they

During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course."

so tell me, what are we doing differently right now that gives you confidence we will avert economic disaster? where is your economic hope coming from?

this is not even basic economics, this is basic balancing your checkbook. you cant spend more than you make without borrowing and going deep into debt, which is economic bondage... and from there things do not end well.

right now we have cities goin broke, whole states goin broke, and a federal government that's BEEN broke.

and business wise we still outsourcing everything from basic manufacturing to technology manufacturing, so that means we STILL do not have the necessary structures in place to promote internal economic success.

our average quality of life is about to drop significantly if we dont alter our trajectory. and it's gonna be a sliding scale... we could go anywhere from mad max beyond thunderdome, to averting the whole disaster altogether if we can get our shyt together. it all depends on how fast we can get organized and make the moves we gotta make to get done what we need to get done. honestly we should all be working together to do this.

on top of that i havent heard any practical, controllable solutions out of your camp except for waiting on obama, ben, and the boys to work it out for us, which is hardly under our control.

and they've been doing a bang up job so far

if im wrong about your solutions to improve social conditions please let me know. if your plans include more than just waiting on the politicians to fix things then please enlighten me.

 

[daze23]

There was a grip of economic issus that got no coverage in that debate last night.

to be fair they didn't get to a lot of issues because the moderator didn't put these dudes in check. I'm pretty sure they had more than 3-4 questions planned. they just ran out of time

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

it's not about bernake and having his 'head on a stake.' its about the fact we have a complete mismanagement of macroeconomic policy from the top level down, and shalom is just one piece of that puzzle.

and the mismanagement is having two significant and predictable effects: 1) it is creating the environment for the rich to use the mechanisms of government to enrich themselves at the expense of others and 2) it is destroying our economy

how can you think we're not in danger of economic destruction? did you even read that part about:

On August 2, 2011, President Barack Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011, averting a possible financial default. During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course."

you got the congressional budget office telling you this economic trajectory is unsustainable, we cant keep this up.

so the strategies i put forth in my post address more than just the debt problem, they address the FUNDAMENTAL inefficiences in our economic models. there are some very basic things we are doing wrong that if we can change, we can improve economic and social conditions very quickly.

those suggestions should also be used IN CONJUNCTION WITH the community economics model. these are the solutions to our problems right now.

the community economics model is so beautiful because we dont even need cooperation from the govt to do that, because community economics uses the mechanisms of the society that are already in place to do the work. so we can fully implement community economics at any time at any place, thats completely under our control. (if anybody is interested in building on this holla at the kid!)

so i dont see where your optimisms coming from, reading these statistically manipulated reports on low wage jobs being created? or putting faith in the puppeteer system that is the stock market? one can control shifts in the stock market with few hundred billie. you know who has a few hundred billie to piss off in the stock market? banks. do the math. this whole system is fukked from the top down and its only a matter of time before these people and their greed drive the rest of us off an economic cliff while they

During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course."

so tell me, what are we doing differently right now that gives you confidence we will avert economic disaster? where is your economic hope coming from?

this is not even basic economics, this is basic balancing your checkbook. you cant spend more than you make without borrowing and going deep into debt, which is economic bondage... and from there things do not end well.

right now we have cities goin broke, whole states goin broke, and a federal government that's BEEN broke.

and business wise we still outsourcing everything from basic manufacturing to technology manufacturing, so that means we STILL do not have the necessary structures in place to promote internal economic success.

our average quality of life is about to drop significantly if we dont alter our trajectory. and it's gonna be a sliding scale... we could go anywhere from mad max beyond thunderdome, to averting the whole disaster altogether if we can get our shyt together. it all depends on how fast we can get organized and make the moves we gotta make to get done what we need to get done. honestly we should all be working together to do this.

on top of that i havent heard any practical, controllable solutions out of your camp except for waiting on obama, ben, and the boys to work it out for us, which is hardly under our control.

and they've been doing a bang up job so far

if im wrong about your solutions to improve social conditions please let me know. if your plans include more than just waiting on the politicians to fix things then please enlighten me.

Again, you're throwing out a whole bunch of stuff and kind of stating a treatise on what you think should be done with the American economy, but I'll stick specifically the debt.

Regarding the Budget Control Act of 2011, please don't get all emotional and tell me I'm being a dikk, but you citing that as evidence as the debt is some kinda 4 alarm blaze emergency is just proving how flawed your view is. You don't even know what that was about. That's what happens when you don't pay attention to politics and tell me and the rest of the podcast homies we're talking about "bullshyt" when we discuss stuff like this instead of listening and learning.

All that was was simply about was a raising of the debt limit, which is an arbitrary legal limit to the amount of public debt the U.S. can hold established into law back like 1939. The debt limit has been raised 74 TIMES since then to avoid default. This is normally just a routine procedure. The economy is constantly steadily growing, and so is the debt, so for 70 years it's been routine parliamentary procedure to raise the debt limit.

The only thing different about 2011 was the the Republicans decided to be douchebags and play politics with it and try to deebo the President into making spending cuts they wanted while threatening to shut down the whole government if he didn't. And they were successful at forcing this "grand bargain" shyt which is being debated and will be ironed out soon and will probably involve major cuts to Medicare and social security. Even in this thread you scoffed at them debating tax plans, then complained about the debt. That goes to essentially what the debt is...money borrowed on your credit card because your checkbook isn't balanced. Tax plans, how much revenue you have coming and how much you have going out on what is about trying to balance your checkbook.

So the debt ceiling fiasco you cited was nothing more than political gamesmanship. Anybody paying attention to politics knows that. You got hoodwinked. That's what happens when you don't pay attention to politics and scoff at it then try speak on it based on anecdotes and lack of full understanding.

Now, is the debt a big problem? Yes. I simply said it's not an immediate problem. It's something that needs to be put on the backburner. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed before we start worrying about paying down the debt right...employment, economic growth, housing prices, the deficit, and an energy plan. The thing is you have to be on firmer economic standing before you start focusing on austerity. Ask Europe. After we can hopefully get sustained economic growth and shore up our institutions, we will have the means to pay down the debt. Focusing on paying the debt now would be like a person who is part-time marginally employed with hungry kids behind on his mortgage and car payment making his credit card balance a top priority.

Once again, just looking at the that huge trillion dollar number and going isn't realistic because as I already stated, our debt to GDP ratio is not that bad and I showed you the numbers. Right now our debt to GDP ratio is about 72%. Back in 1945 it was 113%. Is the trajectory looking bad and does it need to be addressed? Yes. Is it a crisis of immediate concern while we have sluggish economic growth, high unemployment, and housing prices still in the tank? No.

 

[OsO]

Again, you're throwing out a whole bunch of stuff and kind of stating a treatise on what you think should be done with the American economy, but I'll stick specifically the debt.

Regarding the Budget Control Act of 2011, please don't get all emotional and tell me I'm being a dikk, but you citing that as evidence as the debt is some kinda 4 alarm blaze emergency is just proving how flawed your view is. You don't even know what that was about. That's what happens when you don't pay attention to politics and tell me and the rest of the podcast homies we're talking about "bullshyt" when we discuss stuff like this instead of listening and learning.

All that was was simply about was a raising of the debt limit, which is an arbitrary legal limit to the amount of public debt the U.S. can hold established into law back like 1939. The debt limit has been raised 74 TIMES since then to avoid default. This is normally just a routine procedure. The economy is constantly steadily growing, and so is the debt, so for 70 years it's been routine parliamentary procedure to raise the debt limit.

The only thing different about 2011 was the the Republicans decided to be douchebags and play politics with it and try to deebo the President into making spending cuts they wanted while threatening to shut down the whole government if he didn't. And they were successful at forcing this "grand bargain" shyt which is being debated and will be ironed out soon and will probably involve major cuts to Medicare and social security. Even in this thread you scoffed at them debating tax plans, then complained about the debt. That goes to essentially what the debt is...money borrowed on your credit card because your checkbook isn't balanced. Tax plans, how much revenue you have coming and how much you have going out on what is about trying to balance your checkbook.

So the debt ceiling fiasco you cited was nothing more than political gamesmanship. Anybody paying attention to politics knows that. You got hoodwinked. That's what happens when you don't pay attention to politics and scoff at it then try speak on it based on anecdotes and lack of full understanding.

Now, is the debt a big problem? Yes. I simply said it's not an immediate problem. It's something that needs to be put on the backburner. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed before we start worrying about paying down the debt right...employment, economic growth, housing prices, the deficit, and an energy plan. The thing is you have to be on firmer economic standing before you start focusing on austerity. Ask Europe. After we can hopefully get sustained economic growth and shore up our institutions, we will have the means to pay down the debt. Focusing on paying the debt now would be like a person who is part-time marginally employed with hungry kids behind on his mortgage and car payment making his credit card balance a top priority.

Once again, just looking at the that huge trillion dollar number and going isn't realistic because as I already stated, our debt to GDP ratio is not that bad and I showed you the numbers. Right now our debt to GDP ratio is about 72%. Back in 1945 it was 113%. Is the trajectory looking bad and does it need to be addressed? Yes. Is it a crisis of immediate concern while we have sluggish economic growth, high unemployment, and housing prices still in the tank? No.

you totally avoided everything i said about how our current economic models are inadequate and our national economic trajectory is unsustainable.

and you also totally avoided how i stated my solutions will fix more than just the debt problem, but also fix the fundamental policy issues we're having with our economy.

the overwhelming debt we possess is just a symptom of the problem, the solutions im putting forth are about addressing the structural root causes of of problems.

and you also did not speak on any practical solutions of your own.

but you did however spend your entire post addressing one sentence i had in my post: On August 2, 2011, President Barack Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011, averting a possible financial default. while again, completely avoiding the following sentence, During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course.

and regardless of the context of the budget control act, the fact we had to take such measures to avoid financial catastrophe is a huge red flag. and the fact we've had to do it over 70 times? lol thats not a good thing.

so im not sure if youre arguing that our current financial situation is not that bad (which would be idiotic), or that we currently have the policies in place to get our economy back on track (which would also be idiotic)... so what exactly are you saying?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

you totally avoided everything i said about how our current economic models are inadequate and our national economic trajectory is unsustainable.

and you also totally avoided how i stated my solutions will fix more than just the debt problem, but also fix the fundamental policy issues we're having with our economy.

the overwhelming debt we possess is just a symptom of the problem, the solutions im putting forth are about addressing the structural root causes of of problems.

and you also did not speak on any practical solutions of your own.

This is the 3rd time I'm saying this, but I'm not going to sit here and have a discussion on Leyet's opinions on all things economy-related. I'm not going to break down point by point every single proposal you laid out because you're all over the place and off-topic and every single thing you said could be worthy of its own thread. The topic is the debt. That's what I'm sticking to.

and you also did not speak on any practical solutions of your own.

And again, as I said the debt is not something that should be prioritized right as we have far more pressing economic problems which I cited, and if we did prioritize the debt right now we would be facing economic calamity. Look at Europe. We need to return to economic stability and sustained growth before we address the debt.

but you did however spend your entire post addressing one sentence i had in my post: On August 2, 2011, President Barack Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011, averting a possible financial default. while again, completely avoiding the following sentence, During June 2011, the Congressional Budget Office called for "...large and rapid policy changes to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course.

and regardless of the context of the budget control act, the fact we had to take such measures to avoid financial catastrophe is a huge red flag. and the fact we've had to do it over 70 times? lol thats not a good thing.

It wasn't financial catastrophe we had to avoid. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. There was no financial catastrophe, it was just political theater by the Republicans in Congress. We are not in danger of being insolvent.

We had to raise the debt ceiling 74 times because obviously the debt dollar amount will grow as the economy grows. It's math. If you set the debt ceiling at an arbitrary dollar amount, as inflation occurs, the amount of debt you have to borrow will be more, and thus you have to raise that arbitrary dollar amount. Raising the debt ceiling has always been routine parliamentary procedure that was never shrouded in controversy at all until the Republicans in Congress decided to be douchebags and play politics with it in 2011, and they did it once before that in 1995 when Clinton was in office.

so im not sure if youre arguing that our current financial situation is not that bad (which would be idiotic), or that we currently have the policies in place to get our economy back on track (which would also be idiotic)... so what exactly are you saying?

What are you saying? You're all over the place and just ranting about a bunch of random shyt. I've been very clear. The debt is not a priority right now. Obviously there's a ton of things that need to be fundamentally and institutionally fixed in our economy before start worrying about paying down the debt. When we do have the proper mechanisms in place to create a robust economy, then we will have the capacity to start paying down the debt. You can't pay off a huge credit balance when your checking account is in the negative.

 

[OsO]

This is the 3rd time I'm saying this, but I'm not going to sit here and have a discussion on Leyet's opinions on all things economy-related. I'm not going to break down point by point every single proposal you laid out because you're all over the place and off-topic and every single thing you said could be worthy of its own thread. The topic is the debt. That's what I'm sticking to.


And again, as I said the debt is not something that should be prioritized right as we have far more pressing economic problems which I cited, and if we did prioritize the debt right now we would be facing economic calamity. Look at Europe. We need to return to economic stability and sustained growth before we address the debt.



It wasn't financial catastrophe we had to avoid. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. There was no financial catastrophe, it was just political theater by the Republicans in Congress. We are not in danger of being insolvent.

We had to raise the debt ceiling 74 times because obviously the debt dollar amount will grow as the economy grows. It's math. If you set the debt ceiling at an arbitrary dollar amount, as inflation occurs, the amount of debt you have to borrow will be more, and thus you have to raise that arbitrary dollar amount. Raising the debt ceiling has always been routine parliamentary procedure that was never shrouded in controversy at all until the Republicans in Congress decided to be douchebags and play politics with it in 2011, and they did it once before that in 1995 when Clinton was in office.



What are you saying? You're all over the place and just ranting about a bunch of random shyt. I've been very clear. The debt is not a priority right now. Obviously there's a ton of things that need to be fundamentally and institutionally fixed in our economy before start worrying about paying down the debt. When we do have the proper mechanisms in place to create a robust economy, then we will have the capacity to start paying down the debt. You can't pay off a huge credit balance when your checking account is in the negative.

i am not solely talking about the debt. the debt is just one aspect of a larger problem. i am focused on solving the larger problem which are the systematic inequalities perpetuated by our social order.

if youre only here to discuss if attacking the debt is a priority then we should just stop here because thats not very significant compared to what we should be talking about.

which is the fact any intelligent person does not wait for the catastrophe to hit, we manage solutions beforehand.

i think our fundamental misunderstanding is stemming from you dont see our economic conditions as an emergency, and i do.

betta hope youre right

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

i am not solely talking about the debt. the debt is just one aspect of a larger problem. i am focused on solving the larger problem which are the systematic inequalities perpetuated by our social order.

if youre only here to discuss if attacking the debt is a priority then we should just stop here because thats not very significant compared to what we should be talking about.

which is the fact any intelligent person does not wait for the catastrophe to hit, we manage solutions beforehand.

i think our fundamental misunderstanding is stemming from you dont see our economic conditions as an emergency, and i do.

betta hope youre right

I see our economic conditions as an emergency. I don't see the debt as an immediate emergency or something that should be prioritized above unemployment, stable economic growth, a real energy plan, the deficit, reforming the banking system and trade agreements, and housing prices. It is something that needs to be addressed in the long-term. It's that simple.

 

[OsO]

I see our economic conditions as an emergency. I don't see the debt as an immediate emergency or something that should be prioritized above unemployment, stable economic growth, a real energy plan, the deficit, reforming the banking system and trade agreements, and housing prices. It is something that needs to be addressed in the long-term. It's that simple.

so what are the next steps?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

so what are the next steps?

Doing another round of stimulus spending, or getting a jobs plan, like the American Jobs Act (that the Repubs in Congress blocked) that would create an infrastructure bank for building high-speed rail and other projects, give tax credits to businesses for hiring the unemployment, invest in a means of job training, and give money to states so they can keep cops, teachers and firefighters. Priority #1 is getting people working again.

Get a real energy plan. Invest massively in upgrading our capacity for electric and hydrogen powered cars (that ties into the infrastructure bank I talked about) in wind, solar, and nuclear. Start taxing fossil fuels. End all oil subsidies. There's more to it than that, but I'd have to get advice from experts.

Massively cut the military. As far as how much, I don't know. I'd need more info. But I'd close all our bases in Germany and Japan (WWII been over) and probably many more. Pull ground troops out of Afghanistan. I wouldn't cut R&D, but I'd eliminate all the pork spending.

End the drug war. Legalize marijuana, tax the fukk out of it, and collect all that revenue. I'd probably keep hard drugs like coke, heroin, and amphetamines illegal, but I'd drastically reduce the penalties. I'd end private prisons altogether. Invest in treatment, prevention and rehabilitation and that would be way more cost-effective.

Raise the top marginal rate to 39% like it was under Clinton and eliminate almost all the deductions for people in the top bracket that allow them to pay obscenely low taxes or none at all.

Eliminate all the deductions and loopholes corporations use to avoid paying taxes and cut the corporate tax rate to maybe 25% or so.

Take a look at foreign aid and cut it to countries that are for political reasons instead of humanitarian like Israel and Pakistan.

End the embargoes to Cuba, Iran, and North Korea.

Put laws in place that keep corporations from using offshore tax havens.

Increase tariffs on Chinese-made goods. I don't want a start a trade war with China, but we have to work out something creatively to offset the trade imbalance.

Implement a national single payer healthcare system similar to what they have in Taiwan.

Reform the banking system. Bring back Glass-Steagall or some modified form of it to prevent federally-insured banks from engaging in reckless speculation with funds from their commercial operations. Give real teeth to the Consumer Protection Bureau. Strengthen capital requirements and end too big to fail. Make derivatives be traded on open, regulated exchanges. Put all the criminals who engaged in massive fraud behind bars where they belong.

Establish a federal agency within the legislative branch to audit the Federal Reserve, similar to the CBO. Maybe it can be a branch of the CBO.

But what do I know. I could be wrong about some of those things I don't have much knowledge or access, but that's how I see it.

 

[john goodman]

I agree with most of your points, though instead of raising the income tax I'd raise the capital gains tax a bit

 

[CrimsonTider]

We cant afford those tax breaks bruh

shyt is like... I dont know what. But theres a lot of moving pieces. Solutions can't be derived in isolation.

We can cut out all the loopholes from shipping jobs overseas though

I agree with most of your points, though instead of raising the income tax I'd raise the capital gains tax a bit

Yeah, the capital gains tax needs to be raised ALOT.

15% is a joke and it doesn't create any trickle down. It also encourages too much risk taking.

You get to deduct capital losses and you gains are only taxed at 15%

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

We can cut out all the loopholes from shipping jobs overseas though

Loopholes have to be the same for everybody. Either we have them for everybody or we have them for nobody. Picking favorites is too problematic.

Yeah, the capital gains tax needs to be raised ALOT.

15% is a joke and it doesn't create any trickle down. It also encourages too much risk taking.

You get to deduct capital losses and you gains are only taxed at 15%

You're wrong.

First of all, how does low capital gains tax encourage too much risk taking? Risk taking by who?

Second of all, a 100% capital gains tax wouldn't create any trickle down either. More importantly though, what exactly is "trickle down"? As far as I know it has never worked. Makes more sense to set the country up to people are able to get their own, rather than depend on handouts from the rich.

Third of all, capital gains are taxed over a wide range of rates... from 0% to 35%, depending on when the gains are realized and how big the gains are.

Personally I think capital gains should be taxed just like regular personal income, and all business taxes (small business to corporate taxes) should be eliminated, along with businesses' abilities to lobby. You might scream at the thought, but thats most likely because you don't know how the system works, or what the biggest drag on our economy is (bureaucratic inefficiency)/

 

[OsO]

Doing another round of stimulus spending, or getting a jobs plan, like the American Jobs Act (that the Repubs in Congress blocked) that would create an infrastructure bank for building high-speed rail and other projects, give tax credits to businesses for hiring the unemployment, invest in a means of job training, and give money to states so they can keep cops, teachers and firefighters. Priority #1 is getting people working again.

Get a real energy plan. Invest massively in upgrading our capacity for electric and hydrogen powered cars (that ties into the infrastructure bank I talked about) in wind, solar, and nuclear. Start taxing fossil fuels. End all oil subsidies. There's more to it than that, but I'd have to get advice from experts.

Massively cut the military. As far as how much, I don't know. I'd need more info. But I'd close all our bases in Germany and Japan (WWII been over) and probably many more. Pull ground troops out of Afghanistan. I wouldn't cut R&D, but I'd eliminate all the pork spending.

End the drug war. Legalize marijuana, tax the fukk out of it, and collect all that revenue. I'd probably keep hard drugs like coke, heroin, and amphetamines illegal, but I'd drastically reduce the penalties. I'd end private prisons altogether. Invest in treatment, prevention and rehabilitation and that would be way more cost-effective.

Raise the top marginal rate to 39% like it was under Clinton and eliminate almost all the deductions for people in the top bracket that allow them to pay obscenely low taxes or none at all.

Eliminate all the deductions and loopholes corporations use to avoid paying taxes and cut the corporate tax rate to maybe 25% or so.

Take a look at foreign aid and cut it to countries that are for political reasons instead of humanitarian like Israel and Pakistan.

End the embargoes to Cuba, Iran, and North Korea.

Put laws in place that keep corporations from using offshore tax havens.

Increase tariffs on Chinese-made goods. I don't want a start a trade war with China, but we have to work out something creatively to offset the trade imbalance.

Implement a national single payer healthcare system similar to what they have in Taiwan.

Reform the banking system. Bring back Glass-Steagall or some modified form of it to prevent federally-insured banks from engaging in reckless speculation with funds from their commercial operations. Give real teeth to the Consumer Protection Bureau. Strengthen capital requirements and end too big to fail. Make derivatives be traded on open, regulated exchanges. Put all the criminals who engaged in massive fraud behind bars where they belong.

Establish a federal agency within the legislative branch to audit the Federal Reserve, similar to the CBO. Maybe it can be a branch of the CBO.

But what do I know. I could be wrong about some of those things I don't have much knowledge or access, but that's how I see it.

those are all great suggestions. really great post, i mean that.

so how do we go about getting all this implemented though? those policies are going to take a lot of cookies out of all lot of people's cookie jars, you think the politicians and big business are having that? how much influence do you think big business has on what laws are created and enforced?

all in all i love your suggestions, but i'd say it's less than a 5% chance our government gets even half of that stuff done in the next 20 years.

so whats the plan, should we just wait?

 

[CrimsonTider]

Loopholes have to be the same for everybody. Either we have them for everybody or we have them for nobody. Picking favorites is too problematic.



You're wrong.

First of all, how does low capital gains tax encourage too much risk taking? Risk taking by who?

Second of all, a 100% capital gains tax wouldn't create any trickle down either. More importantly though, what exactly is "trickle down"? As far as I know it has never worked. Makes more sense to set the country up to people are able to get their own, rather than depend on handouts from the rich.

Third of all, capital gains are taxed over a wide range of rates... from 0% to 35%, depending on when the gains are realized and how big the gains are.

Personally I think capital gains should be taxed just like regular personal income, and all business taxes (small business to corporate taxes) should be eliminated, along with businesses' abilities to lobby. You might scream at the thought, but thats most likely because you don't know how the system works, or what the biggest drag on our economy is (bureaucratic inefficiency)/

The capital gains tax rate is progressive, big only the rich pay capital gains tax and only the rich prefer to not make an income and only make money through capital gains (Romney)

What I mean by trickle down is under Clinton the Cap gains tax was 20%, Bush cut it down to 15 % with the idea that the more money the rich have in their pocket they will use it to create jobs and reinvest in the economy (supply side/ Trickle down economics)

It encourages risk taking because instead of taking profits and invest them in labor physical assets, etc. You can gamble in the market becaus if you lose you get to use the loss as a deduction to taxable income and if you when you only get taxed at 15%