TSC's Official WWE Network Thread

[Love Sosa]

No, the DX act was over, the Outlaws were ridiculously over, and Triple H happened to be a part of the act and aligned with the Outlaws. Go back and watch the 1998 and 1999 Raws leading up to WrestleMania XV; the whole narrative Hunter being this mega over guy on the level of Rock, Folet, Taker, etc. is a falsehood. That's not to say he did nothing, or wasn't a great upper mid-card guy, but he was nowhere near ready for his main event push in any fashion when it happened.

Thing is, they just repeatedly put him in over stables to mask this:

-Not getting over to the desired level as King of the Ring in 1997? We'll placate Shawn (who complained repeatedly about initially being paired with Rick Rude instead of Hunter) and stick Hunter with a hot heel.

-Need to replace said heat after Shawn's injury? The Outlaws are getting over as a tag team act, put them in DX with Hunter as leader.

-His face act is waning? Turn him heel and stick him in the top heel stable in the company, which will eventually morph into his stable when Rock turns face, Taker starts changing his gimmick and eventually takes an injury leave, and Hunter's the only "main event" guy left on the heel side.

-Still not over after putting him over The Rock a few times? Have him beat Austin Foley for the WWF Title (Austin, not being an idiot, refused to drop the belt to Hunter, partially because he wasn't over at a main event level), beat everyone else during the last quarter of the year, and fake rape and marry the boss's daughter.

Dude didn't get over to the desired level until Foley killed himself twice for the cause. Don't tell me this guy was ever organically over the way guys like Austin, Rock, Foley, Taker, etc. were organically over.

And yeah, they had a dearth of heels. But Jericho was RIGHT THERE to be pushed if not for a bunch of minor bullshyt regarding his work style holding him back. Big Show was RIGHT THERE if they hadn't rendered him ineffective within 3 months of his debut. Benoit was having main event matches from the literal moment he arrived in the company. Don't tell me they didn't have other options.

Well was Shawn right or was he right? It’s not like Shawn needed help getting over so why not actually elevate a guy. Rude couldn’t work, didn’t even have a contract, and as much as I couldn’t stand HHH’s promos in those early DX days, it worked out for him.

You’re literally just repeating dumb internet rumors. If Austin had a problem jobbing to Triple H, why would he lose to him the very next month at No Mercy on PPV? The reason they went with Foley is because Ventura was in politics and didn’t want to be seen raising the hand of a heel.

I’m not disagreeing that he was over to the extent of the other guys, but how are they supposed to elevate him if they don’t put him with those guys? fukking big show really? Yes Jericho is a good point but he was brand new and Triple H was already well on his way when Jericho got there. Not to mention having heat with the office 3 weeks into his run. And how can you argue with the results? Triple H from late 99 to his injury was a great heel and had great matches.

yes it was a weird period until he got there but he had to get there somehow I just don’t see your point

 

[Vic Damone. Jr]

Nothing like Ride Along fukkery

 

[stro]

It's wild HHH vs Rock vs Austin never ended up happening ever. I think the only match they were ever all 3 in at the same time was the Armageddon 6 man HIAC. It never even happened at a house show.

 

[stro]

Now that I think about it, I'm surprised Tatanka didn't get a weird/offensive gimmick update in the Attitude Era like 90% of the roster from the New Gen.

 

[TrueEpic08]

Well was Shawn right or was he right? It’s not like Shawn needed help getting over so why not actually elevate a guy. Rude couldn’t work, didn’t even have a contract, and as much as I couldn’t stand HHH’s promos in those early DX days, it worked out for him.

You’re literally just repeating dumb internet rumors. If Austin had a problem jobbing to Triple H, why would he lose to him the very next month at No Mercy on PPV? The reason they went with Foley is because Ventura was in politics and didn’t want to be seen raising the hand of a heel.

I’m not disagreeing that he was over to the extent of the other guys, but how are they supposed to elevate him if they don’t put him with those guys? fukking big show really? Yes Jericho is a good point but he was brand new and Triple H was already well on his way when Jericho got there. Not to mention having heat with the office 3 weeks into his run. And how can you argue with the results? Triple H from late 99 to his injury was a great heel and had great matches.

yes it was a weird period until he got there but he had to get there somehow I just don’t see your point

Stop acting like Shawn had altruistic intentions with Hunter. If he cared so much about the future, then he wouldn't have done everything he could to help Hunter kill The Rock off in his early days. He just wanted his friend along for the ride.

Triple H said himself ON HIS OWN fukkING DVD that Austin wouldn't put him over. Every time the question is brought up to people from that era they tend to dodge around that question, and Austin working Hunter two months later doesn't prove anything because:

1. Austin's neck was completely shot and he had to go in for fusion surgery, so he wasn't going to win anyway.

2. It's not as if there weren't other cases where Austin refused to work a guy then worked him in some capacity. Austin refused to job to Brock Lesnar in 2002, then all but worked a program with Brock for his WrestleMania XX match with Goldberg. I get the sense that a lot of Austin's decisions regarding who he did and didn't want to work came down to timing and context.

And as for the results? I probably took a year longer than I would have to make the transition from WCW to WWF largely because I hated watching heel Triple H do anything. I largely didn't enjoy his matches (I'm literally watching 2000 Triple H right now work Foley and Jericho, and I feel nothing but apathy for Hunter. Not even hatred a la 2002-2005, just apathy), he took up an obscene amount of screentime to just talk and do nothing, and never at any point entertained me. Business was excellent in 2000 and he was top heel during that period: if you want to give him credit for that (though he was really just The Rock's opponent, given that it was Rock who set a major gate record in 2000), fine. Just know that he ALWAYS took a step back when real stars were around (Austin, Rock, Lesnar, Cena) because they all moved numbers far better than he did.

The point that while Hunter had his moments (yes, he had great matches and great segments, but they were few and far between), his legend is largely manufactured and a fabrication of endless WWE pushes and propaganda more than his own innate talent and the business he did. In many ways, Hunter is Chance the Rapper if he were a wrestler who floated between "deeply mediocre" and "pretty good" for most of his career, as opposed to a rapper who was very good when he started out and absolutely fell off a cliff after a certain point.

 

[thaKEAF]

Watched two episodes of Superstars. Is it always usually the big stars squashing no name dudes?

 

[stro]

Yes. That's what all WWE shows were until Raw. And most other companies TV shows during the 80s.

 

[NYChase718]

In 1999 on the wwf ppvs including fukking wrestlemania
The first at least 4or 5 matches on every card are all under 5 Mins on each card it seems like

 

[Love Sosa]

Stop acting like Shawn had altruistic intentions with Hunter. If he cared so much about the future, then he wouldn't have done everything he could to help Hunter kill The Rock off in his early days. He just wanted his friend along for the ride.

Triple H said himself ON HIS OWN fukkING DVD that Austin wouldn't put him over. Every time the question is brought up to people from that era they tend to dodge around that question, and Austin working Hunter two months later doesn't prove anything because:

1. Austin's neck was completely shot and he had to go in for fusion surgery, so he wasn't going to win anyway.

2. It's not as if there weren't other cases where Austin refused to work a guy then worked him in some capacity. Austin refused to job to Brock Lesnar in 2002, then all but worked a program with Brock for his WrestleMania XX match with Goldberg. I get the sense that a lot of Austin's decisions regarding who he did and didn't want to work came down to timing and context.

And as for the results? I probably took a year longer than I would have to make the transition from WCW to WWF largely because I hated watching heel Triple H do anything. I largely didn't enjoy his matches (I'm literally watching 2000 Triple H right now work Foley and Jericho, and I feel nothing but apathy for Hunter. Not even hatred a la 2002-2005, just apathy), he took up an obscene amount of screentime to just talk and do nothing, and never at any point entertained me. Business was excellent in 2000 and he was top heel during that period: if you want to give him credit for that (though he was really just The Rock's opponent, given that it was Rock who set a major gate record in 2000), fine. Just know that he ALWAYS took a step back when real stars were around (Austin, Rock, Lesnar, Cena) because they all moved numbers far better than he did.

The point that while Hunter had his moments (yes, he had great matches and great segments, but they were few and far between), his legend is largely manufactured and a fabrication of endless WWE pushes and propaganda more than his own innate talent and the business he did. In many ways, Hunter is Chance the Rapper if he were a wrestler who floated between "deeply mediocre" and "pretty good" for most of his career, as opposed to a rapper who was very good when he started out and absolutely fell off a cliff after a certain point.

You’re moving goal posts all over the place. I’m not saying Shawn was trying to be the all giving savior of the business. Yes, he was trying to get his boy over, that’s what I said. But it makes so much more sense for it to be Hunter than Rick. You are making it seem like a bad thing because you have read bad things on the internet about these people.

Triple h did not say Austin refused to put him over on that dvd. He said he was supposed to win then plans changed and shrugged his shoulders. MULTIPLE people have debunked this. To add on to that, he could’ve pinned Mankind and won the title and Austin could’ve been Teflon. Look at what you’re saying. Literally makes no sense. Yes Austin refused to job that one time in 02 which is an entirely separate thing.

I don’t think anyone with a brain puts him on the same level as Rock and Austin but he was the most over heel they had if you don’t like dude then you don’t like him

 

[TrueEpic08]

You’re moving goal posts all over the place. I’m not saying Shawn was trying to be the all giving savior of the business. Yes, he was trying to get his boy over, that’s what I said. But it makes so much more sense for it to be Hunter than Rick. You are making it seem like a bad thing because you have read bad things on the internet about these people.

Triple h did not say Austin refused to put him over on that dvd. He said he was supposed to win then plans changed and shrugged his shoulders. MULTIPLE people have debunked this. To add on to that, he could’ve pinned Mankind and won the title and Austin could’ve been Teflon. Look at what you’re saying. Literally makes no sense. Yes Austin refused to job that one time in 02 which is an entirely separate thing.

I don’t think anyone with a brain puts him on the same level as Rock and Austin but he was the most over heel they had if you don’t like dude then you don’t like him

I haven't moved a single goalpost since I got in here, unless you want to point some out. And no, I don't form my opinions based in random internet rumors either: I've given tangible support for everything I've said in this thread.

Also, appeals to events making sense in wrestling is ridiculous. It's fukking pro wrestling, ego overrides basic common sense more often than not.

I'm clearly not going to convince you (not that I was trying), so if you enjoy Hunter's work, that's fine. There's just too much for me to get past (some of it historical, some of it my own opinion) to o anything beyond giving him credit for a few things here and there.

 

[thaKEAF]

Watched WM11 the other day and the main event wasn’t as bad as I thought. better than Roman vs HHH and Roman vs Taker.

 

[thaKEAF]

Forgot about The Union

 

[blues_funk_reggae]

WrestleMania 2000

Classy Freddie Blassie

Swimsuit contest with Luna Vachon

Ivory had the personality of a turnbuckle.

Terri

Mae Young

The Rock's promo with Micheal Cole

 

[OmegaK2099]

@ the Dudley boys' feud with Mae Young

 

[R=G]

You’re moving goal posts all over the place. I’m not saying Shawn was trying to be the all giving savior of the business. Yes, he was trying to get his boy over, that’s what I said. But it makes so much more sense for it to be Hunter than Rick. You are making it seem like a bad thing because you have read bad things on the internet about these people.

Triple h did not say Austin refused to put him over on that dvd. He said he was supposed to win then plans changed and shrugged his shoulders. MULTIPLE people have debunked this. To add on to that, he could’ve pinned Mankind and won the title and Austin could’ve been Teflon. Look at what you’re saying. Literally makes no sense. Yes Austin refused to job that one time in 02 which is an entirely separate thing.

I don’t think anyone with a brain puts him on the same level as Rock and Austin but he was the most over heel they had if you don’t like dude then you don’t like him

Not in 99 he wasnt and he wasnt really over in 2000 until the build up to Backlash 2000.