Religion/Spirituality Theism Discussion (Abrahamic Religions, Religious Philosophy, etc.)

[jsmiller]

Jesus himself said He is God. Paul (along with the Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Jude..) only reiterated what Jesus said by confirming the miracles and resurrection (something only God could do).

 

[Stone Cold]

You keep ignoring my point. What makes a Christian a Christian isn't belief in God. It's belief in what Paul said about God.

What do podcasts have to do with anything? Did God tell you personally He had a son? No? So you have faith in whoever did. But don't mistake that for faith in God. A Christian is a Christian based on what people they believe just like a Muslim is a Muslim based on what people they believe.

It has nothing to do with belief in God, which is already understood.

What if God did tell me personally He had a son?

What is the difference between that and somebody else telling me?

If I told you God told me personally He had a son, would you believe me?

You have the choice to believe me or not and thats where the concept of free will comes in

 

[the cac mamba]

With original sin the world became evil and imperfect or not of the lord. Jesus was sent to redeem man, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

you're a grown man presenting this as fact?

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

What if God did tell me personally He had a son?

What is the difference between that and somebody else telling me?

If I told you God told me personally He had a son, would you believe me?

You have the choice to believe me or not and thats where the concept of free will comes in

Again, you seem to be missing my point, while proving it at the same time.

I said your beliefs and faith are based on what a person said. It's not really about God, it's what a person said about God.

You say God spoke to you? Well I don't believe you. I still know God exists. So we have 2 independent variables.

God doesn't need to speak to you to exist. However, I need to have faith in your claim in order to believe it or follow you.

Believing in God doesn't make you a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or whatever. It's your belief in what others have said about God.

 

[Propaganda]

Certainly. Which verse in the Bible is that again?

God exists. This is clear. But once you start talking about "Jesus is God" you're now talking about what someone has said about God. So you believe Paul. But you believing Paul doesn't make what he says fact. That's what makes you Christian. That you believe what Paul said about God and that's the thin that can't be proven.

Your faith isn't based on God's existence. That's common sense. Your faith is that what Paul said about God is true.

you didn't come up with that independent of doctrine. it's clear to you because religion says it's clear.

 

[Chris.B]

How do you know what was said. You don't. You have faith in the PEOPLE who say they know. Did God tell you these things directly or did someone else? You trust his someone else. You put your faith in what they say is true.

It doesn't matter what I believe because I'm in the same boat. God exists is the easy part. Now what about God? Different people have said different things (sort of). That's what mass you a follower of a particular religion. Which of these PEOPLE you put your faith in.

What's religion do you practice?

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

you didn't come up with that independent of doctrine. it's clear to you because religion says it's clear.

Regardless of religion, you can't deny the creator. To deny the creator is to deny the creation, and thus yourself. How illogical is that?

Consider an automobile. And all the precise engineering that goes into one. Intelligently designed? Indeed. But what do we call that wonderful piece of craftsmanship in 20 years? A piece of junk.

Over a century of tweaking, changing, improving and it's still a piece of junk after just 20 years.

Now consider the universe. Precision? Indeed. Some have estimated billions of years worth.

So your argument is that 100 years of research will net you 0.0000000001 of what a series of recurring random accidents will produce? AND in top of that, said intelligent designer only has the valuable raw materials left by these unintelligent, random, universe coulda exploded any day accidents to work with. Does this make any sense at all?

No, friend, I don't believe in God because of religion. As I said, religion is about belief in men. On the contrary you fall into the same boat only you choose to not call your religion a religion. It's still based on faith in man.

God exists because the universe exists. This can't be denied. But you believe what you believe about God because you have faith in something a human being said.

The creator exists regardless of which human being you put your faith in as it pertains to the issue. Even atheists can't escape this truth.

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Jesus himself said He is God. Paul (along with the Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Jude..) only reiterated what Jesus said by confirming the miracles and resurrection (something only God could do).

Well I know for a fact the creator exists. The creation exists, therefore the creator exists.

As far as Jesus, an apparent man, being that creator? Well some people have said that. One would have to have faith in those people who said that to believe that.

What's religion do you practice?

It doesn't really matter. God is God. We should all worship Him the best way we know how and with intelligence. That's all that matters.

I'm simply explaining to you, exactly, what it is you have faith in. There is no faith in God, that's common sense. Our faith or "religion" is based on what other human beings have said about this obvious creator.

This isn't about "I'm right and you're wrong", first we need to establish what any potential "debate" is about. You accept the existence of God, right? Notice I didn't ask if you believed in God? Now did you accept this because Jesus said so or because you exist? First and foremost you exist, so you don't need anyone to tell you God exists. A person could have never heard the name Jesus but still accept the obvious existence of their creator. Now whether you go to a Synagogue, Church or Mosque or whatever, that's based on what you have been told about this obviously existent creator. That's what your faith is in. Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

[Chris.B]

Well I know for a fact the creator exists. The creation exists, therefore the creator exists.

As far as Jesus, an apparent man, being that creator? Well some people have said that. One would have to have faith in those people who said that to believe that.



It doesn't really matter. God is God. We should all worship Him the best way we know how and with intelligence. That's all that matters.

I'm simply explaining to you, exactly, what it is you have faith in. There is no faith in God, that's common sense. Our faith or "religion" is based on what other human beings have said about this obvious creator.

This isn't about "I'm right and you're wrong", first we need to establish what any potential "debate" is about. You accept the existence of God, right? Notice I didn't ask if you believed in God? Now did you accept this because Jesus said so or because you exist? First and foremost you exist, so you don't need anyone to tell you God exists. A person could have never heard the name Jesus but still accept the obvious existence of their creator. Now whether you go to a Synagogue, Church or Mosque or whatever, that's based on what you have been told about this obviously existent creator. That's what your faith is in. Do you understand what I'm saying?

it does matter...Christians define God as 1 in 3 persons aka trinity.

I can't debate you on this subject matter properly till I know where your biases lie.....

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

it does matter...Christians define God as 1 in 3 persons aka trinity.

I can't debate you on this subject matter properly till I know where your biases lie.....

Christians define God as 1 in 3 based on what? Based on the fact that it's obvious the creation was created and this creator must be 3 persons?

My point is that your definition of God came from a human being. You believe what someone told you. I'm not even telling you what you believe is wrong, I'm simply pointing out exactly, what it is you believe in. The words of man. That's my only point here. Feel free to debate that fact if you'd like.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Well I know for a fact the creator exists. The creation exists, therefore the creator exists.

As far as Jesus, an apparent man, being that creator? Well some people have said that. One would have to have faith in those people who said that to believe that.



It doesn't really matter. God is God. We should all worship Him the best way we know how and with intelligence. That's all that matters.

I'm simply explaining to you, exactly, what it is you have faith in. There is no faith in God, that's common sense. Our faith or "religion" is based on what other human beings have said about this obvious creator.

This isn't about "I'm right and you're wrong", first we need to establish what any potential "debate" is about. You accept the existence of God, right? Notice I didn't ask if you believed in God? Now did you accept this because Jesus said so or because you exist? First and foremost you exist, so you don't need anyone to tell you God exists. A person could have never heard the name Jesus but still accept the obvious existence of their creator. Now whether you go to a Synagogue, Church or Mosque or whatever, that's based on what you have been told about this obviously existent creator. That's what your faith is in. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Damn breh, we literally got the exact same viewpoint on this shyt. It's why I never accepted atheism. There's no way we can be absolutely sure about any of this. Religion is one of the most misused human creations of all time.

 

[Stone Cold]

Again, you seem to be missing my point, while proving it at the same time.

I said your beliefs and faith are based on what a person said. It's not really about God, it's what a person said about God.

You say God spoke to you? Well I don't believe you. I still know God exists. So we have 2 independent variables.

God doesn't need to speak to you to exist. However, I need to have faith in your claim in order to believe it or follow you.

Believing in God doesn't make you a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or whatever. It's your belief in what others have said about God.

If you don't have faith in man how could you possibly have faith in God?

 

[lini...]

Jesus himself said He is God. Paul (along with the Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Jude..) only reiterated what Jesus said by confirming the miracles and resurrection (something only God could do).

I am pretty sure that Jesus (pbuh) did not say that he was God. Also others (in the Bible) performed miracles that Jesus (pbuh) performed. And finally, Christians believe that we all will be resurrected, so I do not believe these things meet the criteria necessary to definitively state that Jesus (pbuh) was God.

 

[jsmiller]

Well I know for a fact the creator exists. The creation exists, therefore the creator exists.

As far as Jesus, an apparent man, being that creator? Well some people have said that. One would have to have faith in those people who said that to believe that.

You're right, one would have to have faith in the person who said it to believe it. In this case JESUS said it and thus the reason Christians believe it. But not just because he said it but because of His works and ultimately His resurrection.
"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe[d] that the Father is in Me, and I in Him." (John 10:37-38)

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

You're right, one would have to have faith in the person who said it to believe it. In this case JESUS said it and thus the reason Christians believe it. But not just because he said it but because of His works and ultimately His resurrection.
"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe[d] that the Father is in Me, and I in Him." (John 10:37-38)

Off topic for me but I'm just wondering how "the Father is in Me and I in Him" = "The Father is Me and I am him"?