The way I remember it, when NWA were in their prime Public Enemy was always bigger.

Art Barr

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This is a lie.

:mjpls:

"911 Is A Joke" was a big hit , a classic and was a very popular saying in the hood after that song dropped. And u saying otherwise is u telling on yourself that u either werent around or u trolling.



Here's Carlton immortalizing the song "911 Is a Joke"...This right here shyts all over everything u just said. Why was the audience clapping so hard? :stopitslime:






Listen to what Martin says @ the 13:04 mark. Mind you this episode aired years after '911 Is A Joke' dropped




If "911 Is A Joke" wasnt a hit then why were 2 of the most popular Black shows in the 90's acknowledging it ? :sas1:



Fox was revenue grabbing off of the black community or us exclusively.
So that speaks volumes about what was going on. As real talk just like a year or so later shut' down remix was like the soundtrack to def comedy jam. Yet shut'em down and shut'em down the remix would be viewed at as obscure.
Even if the pr of PE and brother griff hurt PE. It should not have hampered it's permeation to be recognized by the general black person in that short period of time. While dually an album skit on nwa she swallowed it.
is still like a common known spoof record and parody that drives mostly all music right now in basic content and premise.
Every record that draws is basically she swallowed it in the first four bars of the record. Especially any music in this Gen spawned off lil Wayne. As almost all the songs in that drawing arena.
start off with a sexually charged or explicit mention.
in the first four bars of the record as standard rule.


Art Barr
 
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Art Barr

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I always kinda looked at them as equals.


The only time you could say nwa and PE were maybe on the same plane.
was during it takes and soc before the MTV lifted ban of nwa. lead nwa to conform and make a accessible video for respect yourself. In that time period nwa was looked at as a political based group by default and there being no prison industrial economy on the horizon to know to use nwa. Somewhere in that timeline when easy appeared at the white house is when that changed. Plus when the group received negative backlash and pr for cube leaving and why. Opened the Pandora box for nwa to go and be the sellouts in full bloom. With cube playing the righteous role with PE as a cosigner.
till he double crossed the Mecca with Westside connection later.
in which also destroyed the source in its original incarnation as well. So there was no long term journalistic outlet to even combat any of this as well culturally. So, it allowed this segregation of culture from rap to grow legs and be misappropriated. Till eventually the culture was segregated all together via puff. after the death of Pac and big and the shattering of the glass ceiling by the infamous white people created weapon of the two.


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Thats top secret information
I think PE might have had more visible mainstreamness/acceptable crossover appeal because NWA was too r-rated but NWA was commercially bigger





are u talking commercially succesful back then or now?...because like I said. NWA had rebirths that helped propel their sales later down the line. Eazy Es death. NWA best ofs. The future solo success of Cube in music an dmovies. The future success of Dre in the late 90's and new milleium. When SOC the movie dropped it pushed the 88 album to 3 mil. PE never had any rebirths aside from Flav doing reality TV which didnt help PE at all.....so when I say they were bigger I'm talking about back then.
 

Ron Fox

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Thats top secret information
Fox was revenue grabbing off of the black community or us exclusively.
So that speaks volumes about what was going on. As real talk just like a year or so later shut' down remix was like the soundtrack to def comedy jam. Yet shut'em down and shut'em down the remix would be viewed at as obscure.
Even if the pr of PE and brother griff hurt PE. It should not have hampered it's permeation to be recognized by the general black person in that short period of time. While dually an album skit on nwa she swallowed it.
is still like a common known spoof record and parody that drives mostly all music right now in basic content and premise.
Every record that draws is basically she swallowed it in the first four bars of the record. Especially any music in this Gen spawned off lil Wayne. As almost all the songs in that drawing arena.
start off with a sexually charged or explicit mention.
in the first four bars of the record as standard rule.


Art Barr



You know what I think hurt PE? Flav getting arrested for crack possession. That shyt was similiar to the WTF moment when Hacksaw Jim Duggan was caught smoking weed with The Iron Sheik, And that all started right when gangster Rap was in full effect. Shan said it best how he would promote being against drugs while he was a fiend and that was cool and would have worked for Flav had he not gotten caught. After they did the spotlight show showing Flav getting arrested on the news for crack..PE's image was never the same and their 94 album went right under the radar.
 

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nwa was really supposed to be a underground rag group based on what topic they touch on their albums.
 

Art Barr

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are u talking commercially succesful back then or now?...because like I said. NWA had rebirths that helped propel their sales later down the line. Eazy Es death. NWA best ofs. The future solo success of Cube in music an dmovies. The future success of Dre in the late 90's and new milleium. When SOC the movie dropped it pushed the 88 album to 3 mil. PE never had any rebirths aside from Flav doing reality TV which didnt help PE at all.....so when I say they were bigger I'm talking about back then.


At height soc and nwa were bigger.
As real talk, they were and probably are the original what an underground group technically was. As their content for the time was considerably taboo. Yet they are what underground is, hugely known but not capable of being marketed in commercial media. We also know nwa was bigger as everything runs on nwa's matrix from ruthless. Everything right now is actually ruthless on auto tune almost exclusively as well. Everything is a basic ruthless records artist in basic theory.
Even the more commercial groups are atban klan mixed with bone edginess.

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You know what I think hurt PE? Flav getting arrested for crack possession. That shyt was similiar to the WTF moment when Hacksaw Jim Duggan was caught smoking weed with The Iron Sheik, And that all started right when gangster Rap was in full effect. Shan said it best how he would promote being against drugs while he was a fiend and that was cool and would have worked for Flav had he not gotten caught. After they did the spotlight show showing Flav getting arrested on the news for crack..PE's image was never the same and their 94 album went right under the radar.


By 94, pe succumbed to the change in sonic landscape. as chuck never worked to up skills and eventually later on really succumbed to selling out and hired a gw in The coup and paris. Which goes against the culture based ideal of what pe is supposed to be. Flav getting caught for crack would not have hurt PE.
if they adjusted to the change in sonic landscape. Not to mention chuck also never applied himself in the sonic landscape and then the actual change of the technical revolution occurred in the coming of the rap herald in nas. Of which everyone tried to compete from anyone to fat Joe.
Surely if fat Joe can fake the funk but still somehow have better writing. Surely chuck should be able to up skills on his own being whom he is. Except chuck never adjusted in the sonic landscape or the technical revolution. Where he should have adjusted because now he did not have to be stylez war based at all. Which also hampered pe in the conversion of the golden age to the styles war era. When chuck did not adjust like all the other legends and pioneers of the new school way of thought. Chuck crippled pe beyond repair.
as that would be looked at and was looked at as pe being culturally fake and not willing to compete.
to escape the obsolete mantra, which damaged the old school way of thought artist in the conversion to the new school way of thought. Which is frowned upon in the new school because chuck was an emcee and to not adjust and not improve. was against what the new school way of thought was about as well. With everything changing it made chuck being vocal in his own launched pr appear fake.
[Especially when in the jacket cover of it takes a nation. The ol school and new school is printed in the j card of the original first printing as well.]
which was probably not Murdoch associated because of griff's comments and flav's issues. Couple that with chuck's unwillingness to improve emcee wise and the mix created and made PE a dead draw.

Then later on the exposal and openness of pe getting ghosted by Paris and coup. completely damaged pe beyond repair, even though they were transparent. It was never going to work.
as pe is basically looked at in its glory drawing years.
as what exactly rap should sound like. With them not adhere'n to the culture. It destroyed that entire sentiment of their legacy and when you put it all there in real time via their history in timeline. That was as counter productive as any group could be to themselves.
So as time went on and or pe Continued to pr themselves and also not have chuck improve on his own with his real skills. That eventually put pe in the obscure artist realm that they inhabit now. Yet pe all time and for its time is the most important rap group via scope, content and actual sonic presentation. Yet in that there is no wiggle room for PE to flodge like other acts and imo, I believe the entire group underestimated that. Especially after 92, and their subsequent projects. As their pr basically painted them in the light of belly ache'n and sellout turmoil. Of which could have been fixed and repaired.
if chuck would have applied himself to the emcee side.
to at least attempt to comeback in the super saiyan skilled essense of how pe is revere'd. pe never tried to get back to being looked at as good as they were.
like say Kane worked hard, on three occassions to show he was writing himself back into being what the public personification of what Kane was or looked at in basic scope. Kane went back to the pad, even pulled out the dances and ditched his sellout shyt that hurt him and even in pr admitted his mistakes. Kane took three opportunities to never give up being what Kane is. He released vet day,...which lead to platinum plus and then his vjnuk twelve inch run and that created his comeback visually at the vh1 honors special and crowned Kane's second coming and real return.
With PE, chuck never took responsibility emcee wise and that is why pr to this day is not looked at by this Gen as what pe is and most importantly.
how in the original two stellar rap release run pe is viewed.

It is more pe and chuck hurting PE's legacy. Not actually a black balling. If chuck remains skilled and up skills. He does what kool g rap did in the mid to late nineties did. Which is seriously make an argument as the goat content genre rapper and rap's true goat as well by actual activity and skill. If rakim never drops seven seal to show Ra was skilled on a level g rap would and could never attain. G rap would be the goat. In that chuck never did what Kane did, nor did he even attempt to reach for the crown like g rap did out of sheer quality of work. That is why pe has never recovered in sentiment and draw. If they did pe would still be at least Kane to g rap to the mythos of nwa was in basic scope. Where the griff shyt and flav issues just acted as hiccups. Chuck never did what the roots did with Malik b and to this day. Almost no one even utters Malik b's name. It is always the roots for their sonic presentation and direction. Then black thought's improv and stage performance skills. In that or should have been the same thing in basic scope for PE.
Yet, chuck never worked on and built skills to do what should have been done.

Also in complete closing pe will never return to be what pe is. As the media outlet that repaired Kane, LL and any other close to dead draw based ol to new school artist is no longer relevant in mtv/vh1 as music outlet. So in those vh1 fascination with the history of rap to basically take it over and cement their take on what they want rap to be globally via Viacom. PE was not attempting nor was adhere'n to the culture and the skills of their piller to capitalize on that wrinkle in time. Now that window is lost and also closed as there is not visual actual media outlet based around relevent tv programming.
to pull pe out the way, everyone from salt to la, to kane to LL did.

All that is known about pe is basically flav being the ugliest talked about lady's man in history. Of which PE could have used as part of its prohibitive tale based content to even solidify women keeping their virtue intact. By using tv's new ideal and how flav was perceived to the new Gen via viacom.

Instead chuck just pr'd an angry sentiment towards flav and never absolved flav of blame. While also never realizing that chuck having a gw and never up'n his own actual skill set in the changes sonically and from the technical revolution ushered in by nas. That will always hurt them because they never appeared about solidarity in turmoil from griff to flav.



Art Barr
 
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Ron Fox

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Thats top secret information
At height soc and nwa were bigger.
As real talk, they were and probably are the original what an underground group technically was. As their content for the time was considerably taboo. Yet they are what underground is, hugely known but not capable of being marketed in commercial media.



Nope.

Because SOC didnt really make its impact felt till 89. And by 89 PE had both mainstream and underground acknowledgement. Where as "Dont Believe The Hype"/"Terminator X to the Edge of Panic"/"Rebel Without A Pause" were all underground staples, Fight The Power the song was plastered all over this hot director named Spike Lees movie Do The Right Thing. NWA had nothing on such a level mainstream wise. Tho I agree with what u said about NWA being an underground staple.

As for contraversy NWA had to share their FBI letter/fukk the police spotlight with 2 Live Crews indecency spotlight. It was 2 Live Crew who was getting more press for banned albums and the main contributing factors to Parental Advisory stickers being placed on covers later down the line. Where as Hip Hop itslef was still considered underground overall compared to the dominace of Pop, Rock and R&B.

.U as a wrestling fan should know that NWA was still recognized more as a wrestling association more then the actual rap group. In 2017 The rap group is more recognized but in 89 NWA was still acknowledged as Wrestling....The Wrestling association name itself was bigger even amongst rap fans.


By 91....when NWA was the first to be acknowledged on Billboards #1...everything was evened out when T2 came right behind that promoting PE that summer. At their height PE was bigger but NWAs impact has had a bigger impact overall...But at the time PE was dominanat and it showed in both Cubes music and NWAs music because Cube took a shot at where the game was when he said "Self Destruction dont pay the fukking rent"....Thats Cube acknowledging The Conscious Movements impact at the time...NWA also said "So nikka get smart and rebel back
I'm not with that black shyt so I'm not gonna yell that
" Again, thats a response to the dominant climate at the time, yet u didnt have PE making any type of sideways remarks at what anyone NWA related was doing....PE actually empbraced NWA and was more focused on actual dope dealers, gang bangers and racists.....Not the gansgter rap climate that was brewing because gangster rap wasn't dominant yet.

Who was more popular in 89 1990 and 1991??...Flavor Flav or any member of NWA including Cube? The answer is gonna be Flav. Proof. I remember those Right On mags and the Soul Train Awards Pics. Flav was just the bigger star from 89 - 91... and by 91 PE won the award for best rap album. Beating Ice Cubes 1st album. And we all know the award shows are a popularity contest. Notice the first 2 years they played it safe with Will Smith and Hammer and finally had to bow down to PEs impact by 91 not NWAs impact.

Soul Train Music Award for Best Rap Album

1989
DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince He's the DJ, I'm the Rapper [1]
Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock It Takes Two
Public Enemy It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
Salt-N-Pepa A Salt with a Deadly Pepa

1990
Heavy D and the Boyz Big Tyme
Big Daddy Kane It's a Big Daddy Thing
De La Soul 3 Feet High and Rising
Young MC Stone Cold Rhymin'
MC Hammer Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em [3]

1991
Ice Cube Amerikkka's Most Wanted
LL Cool J Mama Said Knock You Out
Public Enemy Fear of a Black Planet
Public Enemy Apocalypse '91
 
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Art Barr

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Nope.

Because SOC didnt really make its impact felt till 89. And by 89 PE had both mainstream and underground acknowledgement. Where as "Dont Believe The Hype"/"Terminator X to the Edge of Panic"/"Rebel Without A Pause" were all underground staples, Fight The Power the song was plastered all over this hot director named Spike Lees movie Do The Right Thing. NWA had nothing on such a level mainstream wise. Tho I agree with what u said about NWA being an underground staple.

As for contraversy NWA had to share their FBI letter/fukk the police spotlight with 2 Live Crews indecency spotlight. It was 2 Live Crew who was getting more press for banned albums and the main contributing factors to Parental Advisory stickers being placed on covers later down the line. Where as Hip Hop itslef was still considered underground overall compared to the dominace of Pop, Rock and R&B.

.U as a wrestling fan should know that NWA was still recognized more as a wrestling association more then the actual rap group. In 2017 The rap group is more recognized but in 89 NWA was still acknowledged as Wrestling....The Wrestling association name itself was bigger even amongst rap fans.


By 91....when NWA was the first to be acknowledged on Billboards #1...everything was evened out when T2 came right behind that promoting PE that summer. At their height PE was bigger but NWAs impact has had a bigger impact overall...But at the time PE was dominanat and it showed in both Cubes music and NWAs music because Cube took a shot at where the game was when he said "Self Destruction dont pay the fukking rent"....Thats Cube acknowledging The Conscious Movements impact at the time...NWA also said "So nikka get smart and rebel back
I'm not with that black shyt so I'm not gonna yell that
" Again, thats a response to the dominant climate at the time, yet u didnt have PE making any type of sideways remarks at what anyone NWA related was doing....PE actually empbraced NWA and was more focused on actual dope dealers, gang bangers and racists.....Not the gansgter rap climate that was brewing because gangster rap wasn't dominant yet.

Who was more popular in 89 1990 and 1991??...Flavor Flav or any member of NWA including Cube? The answer is gonna be Flav. Proof. I remember those Right On mags and the Soul Train Awards Pics. Flav was just the bigger star from 89 - 91... and by 91 PE won the award for best rap album. Beating Ice Cubes 1st album. And we all know the award shows are a popularity contest. Notice the first 2 years they played it safe with Will Smith and Hammer and finally had to bow down to PEs impact by 91 not NWAs impact.

Soul Train Music Award for Best Rap Album

1989
DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince He's the DJ, I'm the Rapper [1]
Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock It Takes Two
Public Enemy It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
Salt-N-Pepa A Salt with a Deadly Pepa

1990
Heavy D and the Boyz Big Tyme
Big Daddy Kane It's a Big Daddy Thing
De La Soul 3 Feet High and Rising
Young MC Stone Cold Rhymin'
MC Hammer Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em [3]

1991
Ice Cube Amerikkka's Most Wanted
LL Cool J Mama Said Knock You Out
Public Enemy Fear of a Black Planet
Public Enemy Apocalypse '91


You are completely wrong, after soc the video nationally debuted on 20/20.
The world's most dangerous group was larger than pe and definitely larger than the nwa, the national wrasslin alliance. [the nwa had no mainstream star on par with easy or nwa and cube] That is globally over a general audience.
to mainstream context to regular rap fan or real regular music fan.
I am not sure if you were cognitive back then. As on no day was flav bigger than ice cube and all of nwa's actual draw and fan base trickled over to cube and also dwarfed the fandom nwa and pe got.
Now granted flav's clock was a dope boi staple like c00n skin hat tails and white c00n skin hats were along with troop, taskforce, and medallions to lotto, bk, diadora and aj ii in the beginning of what would now be regarded as street wear. Yet on no day can anyone recite cold lamp'n like someone is going to just randomly remember:
If you fukk with me imma put my foot up yo ass.

[my dad's favorite rap album, that he even stole my nwa tape and I did not find it till we were stretched on the road in ravenswood Ohio as my dad had it playing getting stopped for a ticket and getting the whole schboozle as far as traffic stops].
Let alone all of fukk the police word for word and also in just school yard mythos. Nwa is the ultimate schoolyard rebellion record of any race, creed, age, era etc. As just the use of blatant excessive cuss'n to cover up flawed technical reverse engineered rhymes. On no day do i remember kids even knowing night of the living base heads. Culturally pe had more importance than nwa as a bboy. Yet in the general fan perspective. No fan to this day even remembers night of the living baseheads and originally and arguably still it is the best video ever made for rap. Way before pharcyde drop
Granted, Cube needed the cultural rub and association of PE culturally.
so he could be looked at differently amongst the admin turmoil.
Yet in that cube would have been just fine going at nwa and still being cube. He got the duke easier in battle automatically because he was connected to PE. Yet he still would have won that battle just off sheer perception and the disclosing of who he was opposed to easy and Jerry. Plus the remaining members of nwa making themselves into hanger on to be openly stiffed by easy. With cube telling them to survey their deals publically.
PE never had indepth pr to get bigger than nwa or ice cube. as cube and nwa are the first endorsed by the powers that be group in rap history. Just off that alone makes them larger than PE as PE had to culturally adhere to whom and what they were. Nwa never did and immediately as soon as nwa debuted on 20/20 with the video for soc. Nwa started to carve out being the world's most dangerous group as a mantra.
PE later on would gain 20/20 based viewership but it came much later after soc. Plus in the wake of the prof grif anti semantic pr repair job. Well after soc and nwa pioneered a culturally relevent non-sellout rap group for the time could be endorsed by the bigger media outlets and actually covered.

PE was big culturally and in the mainstream by trickle down and being the white person is down with black nationalism based movement. Yet in that nwa globally across the board did not need cultural hiphop acceptance. as they are the group that first superceded the culture to be a larger draw.
Nwa was larger than all of hiphop and its rap artist breh. While also being the group originally endorsed and not from the Mecca as well.

PE as not a larger general draw than nwa.

PE was culturally revere'd over nwa because of whom they were. Yet they were not larger than nwa. Nor did they draw in large impact immediately like nwa after being on 20/20 to debut soc the video. While also never having soc the video ever appear on tv again till the box debuted it's nostalgia based video programming years afterward. That is how large nwa in general perception to PE. Who with heav actually were the firs to make it to daytime radio. In an era when rap was not played on the radio during the daytime at all. As rap was completely banned in the daytime airing slots on every station. In that nwa was way larger and way bigger by word of mouth. Then even way bigger from actually being the first rap group to debut a video of 20/20, and have a dialogue as to why it was banned on MTV as well. Then never airing again for years as well.

Art Barr

PE could never be bigger than nwa in just simple timeline comparison. As no one bangs mpe but me more than likely. While I know people still bump nwa and the posse in its entirety as well as soc. Plus rap it word for word over ever race creed and actual male and female considering the subject matter.
 
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Art Barr

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This is still rather simple to figure out.

The users need to fill in the words and the name of the song.

PE

I am in the air,....[fill in the rhyme]

Flav:

Chocolate....[fill in the blank]

Nwa:
We all yelled ..[fill in the blank]

I guarantee you everyone of any race creed male or female know the nwa lyric off the top of their head without thinking about it. Which is still engrained in their minds from their child hood.


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are u talking commercially succesful back then or now?...because like I said. NWA had rebirths that helped propel their sales later down the line. Eazy Es death. NWA best ofs. The future solo success of Cube in music an dmovies. The future success of Dre in the late 90's and new milleium. When SOC the movie dropped it pushed the 88 album to 3 mil. PE never had any rebirths aside from Flav doing reality TV which didnt help PE at all.....so when I say they were bigger I'm talking about back then.
Wait


Didn't DOC sell like 2x plat
And NWA barely went 3x plat now:patrice:

Damn was doc that big
 

Art Barr

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This.

PE was on some movement shyt during that era. I loved the run they had during that time.


PE was not bigger than NWA in general fan perception. Culturally PE meant more to us bboys culturally and in the black nationalist movement in that drawing realm culturally and in scope as a group as far as content. Yet they were not bigger than NWA.
This can easily be viewed by timeline comparison as well. As originally no one liked ybrts in any circle generally or culturally like people liked NWA and the posse. To the point when soc came out. NWA and the posse still garnered sales. While Alternatively PE never garnered sales for ybrts and ybrts was not reprint till much later. After the CBS deal and defjam was on universal. Ubrts was reprint I wanna say when ll's greatest hits was released. As PE never generated any interest for ybrts like NWA still generated the same level of sales for NWA and the posse reprint.

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Wait


Didn't DOC sell like 2x plat
And NWA barely went 3x plat now:patrice:

Damn was doc that big


I do not think doc knew how important or large a draw he was and potentially was going to be. Till he dropped the video to doc and the doctor. Which happened after his voice was gone. Doc is arguably with Kane the only other guy skillwise who could have directly rivaled rakim for the title of goat. I wanna say the yo MTV episode.
Where fab five checked in on doc and had doc and the doctor on the weekend yo is when he as a fan you noticed visibly.
that doc finally realized what he was and his potential. Which was well after the accident.


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I do not think doc knew how important or large a draw he was and potentially was going to be. Till he dropped the video to doc and the doctor. Which happened after his voice was gone. Doc is arguably with Kane the only other guy skillwise who could have directly rivaled rakim for the title of goat. I wanna say the yo MTV episode.
Where fab five checked in on doc and had doc and the doctor on the weekend yo is when he as a fan you noticed visibly.
that doc finally realized what he was and his potential. Which was well after the accident.


Art Barr
His comeback album was pretty good :to:
If you're into NWO/ end of the world type songs :to:
 
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