The truth about Kobe Bryant

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Wade has the same per game numbers as Bryant does for the career, with better cumulative efficiency across the board (FG%, eFG%, TS%, PER).

They are both pretty good defenders. Wade is more disruptive and Bryant is a bit better individually.

It's close, but when objectively comparing their production, it's not wrong to say Wade is equal or better.

Our generation seems to favor the player with more titles who played for the Lakers.

You gotta be white or have never played ball in your life. More than likely its both

 

[mastermind]

Yes, and Kobe is a better player than Gasol. Nobody is saying Gasol would of won in Kobe's situation in the mid 00's either. I'm not going by All star games here, I'm going to individual production. He was an All star caliber nearly every year he's been in the league.

You keep insisting that I'm trying to prop up Gasol and we're going in circles. His rightful place is what he is. An All star player.

Let the individual production speak for itself to defend the point of the thread.

Wait, wait....wait wait wait....

Who said anything on here than suggests anything other than what you said that caused you to go in circles with me on here?

You just paraphrased what I said.

you realize that this conversation started from my post, which stated I could not understand posters on ANOTHER forum who were saying that about Gasol. I never said anyone on here said Gasol was dominant. You replied to that post and then this is how it got restared.

 

[Jram]

You gotta be white or have never played ball in your life. More than likely its both

Pretty much. I put facts on the table = Caucasian who never played basketball.

There is exhibit A of "Our generation seems to favor the player with more titles who played for the Lakers."

 

[Goatpoacher]

this post was indecipherable

:

That also says alot about you.

 

[Bilz]

why would you repeat this after I already said it?

Now I ask again, how many playoff GAMES did Gasol win before he got to LA?

What is the point of bringing that up though? If you find that stat to be relevant, you're essentially stating that a dominant player will win at least one playoff game no matter how bad his teammates are or how good his opponents are. It is also stating that someone like Carlos Boozer (who had been on a team that had been deep in the playoffs) has a better argument of earning the "dominant" tag than Pau at the time that trade went down.

Pau played on a team no one cared about and no one really noticed what he was doing or knew what he was capable of. People that watched basketball knew he was going to instantly transform the Lakers into something much better. He has a game that is built on team ball and making others better. His dominance is not measured by leading a team of misfits by himself, his dominance is found when he has adequate help around him and he can play through them. It's the same principle of why 1 month ago, Lakers fans called Steve Nash a loser that couldn't make the playoffs this year and a guy that had two undeserved MVP awards. Now that he is coming to the Lakers, they're predicting an immediate championship from that same player.

 

[mastermind]

That also says alot about you.

yeah, it does. It says that I am good at snuffing out bullshyt and nonsensical statements like the post in question which you tried to peddle off as something deep and retrospective.

its like saying something stupid like Magic Johnson wouldnt be that highly thought of if he didnt play for the Lakers.

Or Larry Bird wouldnt be that highly thought of if he didnt play for the Celtics.

Its a nonsense and indecipherable statement because I dont know what you meant and I dont believe you knew what you meant when you hit submit.

What is the point of bringing that up though? If you find that stat to be relevant, you're essentially stating that a dominant player will win at least one playoff game no matter how bad his teammates are or how good his opponents are. It is also stating that someone like Carlos Boozer (who had been on a team that had been deep in the playoffs) has a better argument of earning the "dominant" tag than Pau at the time that trade went down.

honestly, Boozer was seen as a better player than Gasol, or at least as good before Gasol got to LA.

and I say it again, it was brought up in another forum.

and if you are a great or dominant player, especially in a post position, you should win at least one playoff game if you make it there 3 times with a solid squad which Gasol had in Memphis.

Pau played on a team no one cared about and no one really noticed what he was doing or knew what he was capable of. People that watched basketball knew he was going to instantly transform the Lakers into something much better. He has a game that is built on team ball and making others better.

no shyt, I was one of them. Saying Gasol was a very good player in memphis and would help the Lakers a lot is something no one would disagree with.

but people noticed what was going on in Memphis. Thats a BS statement. It was a very big story when they first made the postseason, and everyone loves Hubie Brown.

His dominance is not measured by leading a team of misfits by himself, his dominance is found when he has adequate help around him and he can play through them.

this is bullshyt

once again, you are making it like that Memphis team was garbage and Gasol somehow dragged a bad team to the playoffs. That Memphis team was pretty good. 7 guys averaged 10 points or more a game, and if you look at their roster you would say thats a decent team that could be a tough out in the postseason. Instead they got swept 3 straight years.

It's the same principle of why 1 month ago, Lakers fans called Steve Nash a loser that couldn't make the playoffs this year and a guy that had two undeserved MVP awards. Now that he is coming to the Lakers, they're predicting an immediate championship from that same player.

first, im not a Laker fan. And any Laker fan who says that Nash is a loser is on their BS. Nash at least has a track record of being a great player in the postseason which Gasol did not have before he came to LA.

the MVP awards tho, thats not a Laker fan thing. A lot of people dont think Nash should have won at least one of those MVPs.

But the comparison between Nash and Gasol before they arrived in LA is strawman at best.

 

[YBE]

It's always about somebody hating. But it's never 'Stop loving' when people overrate him.

Jordan, Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, LeBron.

Space.

Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Bryant, Robertson, Wade, Barkley, Robinson.

He's in that discussion to be in the top ten. Stop acting like it's crazy to say otherwise.

Kobe's not top 5.....but, Lebron is? I'm sick of these threads

 

[YBE]

1. You a d*ckriding fakkit, you love the attention.

2. Kobe hasn't been the best since Jordan? You should be off GP. Since 1996, who's had more titles than Kobe? more NBA 1st teams, more playoff appearances, more All Star game appearances? Magic said Kobe is the greatest Laker ever. Bird said Kobe only having one MVP makes him wants to give him back. Jordan said Kobe is the best player in the L, who the f*ck are you? at me even responding to this. I should neg myself, but I can't, so I'm gonna neg you.

shyt is beyond old at this point. Same threads by the same trolls Can we start a petition to the threadstarter?

The Coli supposed to be for the people, by the people right?

 

[Goatpoacher]

yeah, it does. It says that I am good at snuffing out bullshyt and nonsensical statements like the post in question which you tried to peddle off as something deep and retrospective.

If you're going to try that route, do it right, dipshyt.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Pretty much. I put facts on the table = Caucasian who never played basketball.

There is exhibit A of "Our generation seems to favor the player with more titles who played for the Lakers."

Yeah. Probably both. You posted some BS stats to make a point about something that has to be looked at contextually to form a valid opionion.

I guess the best QBs of all time have the highest QB rating as well.

 

[TheNig]

I'm punching this ts in the face. One more muthafukka put any center above the Dream is getting laid the fukk out.

 

[rapbeats]

I don't think Wade rates higher than Kobe all time(and this is a heat fan talking) although i do think wade is better all around right now(when healthy). But Kobe is one of the greatest of all time and that article that tried to put KG ahead of him? but i understand how Shaq and Duncan could be. Kobe was never the best player in the league for a 8 year stretch like Jordan was but he was the best player in the league for about 3 years in a row and a close second for at least 7. That says something because most of the players that are considered as "GOATS" have that accomplishment.

oh i see you guys flawed perception.

just because Jordan played in an era where magic caught aids and was old. retired. bird was old, bad back, retired. dumars, i.thomas spanked him twice, then they aged out.

now i'm supposed to believe that MJ is the GOAT just because he was the greatest player in an area where all the relevant legends were DONE. not mj's fault but still. who did he beat? reggie miller, and starks? starks... reallly.

lets list em

Kobe walked in, with shaq on his team. not his fault that he was paired with the most dominant monster of all times or atleast since wilt. and shaq was in his prime right when kobe started to figure out the nba.

so its kobe's fault, he got old when LBJ came in.

kobe had to go up against Tmac, Vince, AI, Ray allen(oh yeah yall forgot about the seattle ray) he's kobe's mitch richmond. and i'm just listing perimeter guys.

but all of those guy are better then or as good as starks and reggie in their prime.

john starks=wes matthews of today. you're probably like WHO? and thats exactly my point. starks was a bigtime mj rivial. cause mj didnt have to play guys at his position that were that good.

and i cant say this enough. PIPPEN was the perfect compliment to Mike. not a real pg that would hold the ball the entire time. but a Point forward. a guy who brings it up court, and sets up the offense. but wont over pound the ball. and is passive enough to give it to MJ every single time. even times when mj didnt even want it. kobe and shaq. not the same at all. yes shaq helps kobe and vice versa. BUT. kobe is an assassin just like MJ. Pjax MADE kobe become Shaq's pippen. this is why the moment shaq left. Kobe turned into Pippen/JORDAN> not only did he have to set the table for everyone else. he was still an assassin.

do you guys not realize how mj played pre pippen. that fool was a HOT DOG> and dont show me assist numbers. i watched the man play. i use to dislike his game until pip got there. then i started to respect mike's game. cause i realized what he could do for a team and how he could be apart of the first non superstar bigman teams to win it all. but pre-pippen. that fool Mj was an assassin. he didnt care about setting up guys, and setting up the offense. that was someone elses job. always was. which is why he could kill so efficiently. his mind was on one thing and his job was to do one thing.

there's a huge difference between getting assists from running the triangle offense. vs getting assist because i'm attacking like a mad man and if i get jumped by 3 people THEN and only then will i pass it off. there's a difference between Ho grant(rodman,kukoc), pip, Mjay, on the break( 3 thin athletic guys = fast breaks). and MJ getting his assist numbers up by being apart of so many fast breaks. vs KObe waiting on shaq's big butt to get down court.

and if though you think passing it to shaq was an auto assist. you dont know how assists are counted. you give shaq the ball and he bounces it once then goes up. thats an assist. you throw him a lob. thats an assist. but if you post him up. and he has to back in, dribble, back in, dribble, back in, dribble. there goes your assist.

and that was the lakers offense shaqs entire tenure as a laker. these things hamper kobe's ability to be himself(an assassin just like MIKE).

 

[Bilz]

honestly, Boozer was seen as a better player than Gasol, or at least as good before Gasol got to LA.

and I say it again, it was brought up in another forum.

and if you are a great or dominant player, especially in a post position, you should win at least one playoff game if you make it there 3 times with a solid squad which Gasol had in Memphis.

By who? Who would have honestly wanted Boozer over Pau? People that rarely/never saw either of them play?

Playoff records CANNOT be used to determine the ability of a single player. It's a team sport and it's extremely short sighted to ignore all other factors to make it come down to one player.

no shyt, I was one of them. Saying Gasol was a very good player in memphis and would help the Lakers a lot is something no one would disagree with.

but people noticed what was going on in Memphis. Thats a BS statement. It was a very big story when they first made the postseason, and everyone loves Hubie Brown.

It's a BS statement that you agree with? Whatever, moving on...

this is bullshyt

once again, you are making it like that Memphis team was garbage and Gasol somehow dragged a bad team to the playoffs. That Memphis team was pretty good. 7 guys averaged 10 points or more a game, and if you look at their roster you would say thats a decent team that could be a tough out in the postseason. Instead they got swept 3 straight years.

I'm not saying they were garbage but I'm not going to ignore all other relevant factors either for the simplicity of making a knee jerk reaction. Maybe that team just had bad matchups, maybe the teams they played each year were just better. You can't judge ONE player by a team's wins and losses unless you judge the other 11 players, the coach, and the 12 players and coach on the other side too. It's just careless and lazy to do so.

As for 7 guys averaging 10 points a game, who the fukk cares? The Warriors had that this year and won like 20 games. It's not the sign of a good or successful team. You trade 4 of those 10 ppg guys for 1 20 ppg guy and you become a better team.

first, im not a Laker fan. And any Laker fan who says that Nash is a loser is on their BS. Nash at least has a track record of being a great player in the postseason which Gasol did not have before he came to LA.

the MVP awards tho, thats not a Laker fan thing. A lot of people dont think Nash should have won at least one of those MVPs.

But the comparison between Nash and Gasol before they arrived in LA is strawman at best.

Yes, you're strictly a Kobe fan which is worse in this argument. The only comparison I'm making between Pau and Nash is that they both build their games on passing and making their teammates better and their level of dominance is going to be largely determined by the people around them. Pau didn't instantly became a better player when he came to the Lakers, KG didn't instantly become a championship level player when he went to Boston, etc. Their skills stand alone but the situations around those guys improved, that's it.

 

[FTBS]

oh i see you guys flawed perception.

just because Jordan played in an era where magic caught aids and was old. retired. bird was old, bad back, retired. dumars, i.thomas spanked him twice, then they aged out.

now i'm supposed to believe that MJ is the GOAT just because he was the greatest player in an area where all the relevant legends were DONE. not mj's fault but still. who did he beat? reggie miller, and starks? starks... reallly.

lets list em

Kobe walked in, with shaq on his team. not his fault that he was paired with the most dominant monster of all times or atleast since wilt. and shaq was in his prime right when kobe started to figure out the nba.

so its kobe's fault, he got old when LBJ came in.

kobe had to go up against Tmac, Vince, AI, Ray allen(oh yeah yall forgot about the seattle ray) he's kobe's mitch richmond. and i'm just listing perimeter guys.

but all of those guy are better then or as good as starks and reggie in their prime.john starks=wes matthews of today. you're probably like WHO? and thats exactly my point. starks was a bigtime mj rivial. cause mj didnt have to play guys at his position that were that good.

and i cant say this enough. PIPPEN was the perfect compliment to Mike. not a real pg that would hold the ball the entire time. but a Point forward. a guy who brings it up court, and sets up the offense. but wont over pound the ball. and is passive enough to give it to MJ every single time. even times when mj didnt even want it. kobe and shaq. not the same at all. yes shaq helps kobe and vice versa. BUT. kobe is an assassin just like MJ. Pjax MADE kobe become Shaq's pippen. this is why the moment shaq left. Kobe turned into Pippen/JORDAN> not only did he have to set the table for everyone else. he was still an assassin.

do you guys not realize how mj played pre pippen. that fool was a HOT DOG> and dont show me assist numbers. i watched the man play. i use to dislike his game until pip got there. then i started to respect mike's game. cause i realized what he could do for a team and how he could be apart of the first non superstar bigman teams to win it all. but pre-pippen. that fool Mj was an assassin. he didnt care about setting up guys, and setting up the offense. that was someone elses job. always was. which is why he could kill so efficiently. his mind was on one thing and his job was to do one thing.

there's a huge difference between getting assists from running the triangle offense. vs getting assist because i'm attacking like a mad man and if i get jumped by 3 people THEN and only then will i pass it off. there's a difference between Ho grant(rodman,kukoc), pip, Mjay, on the break( 3 thin athletic guys = fast breaks). and MJ getting his assist numbers up by being apart of so many fast breaks. vs KObe waiting on shaq's big butt to get down court.

and if though you think passing it to shaq was an auto assist. you dont know how assists are counted. you give shaq the ball and he bounces it once then goes up. thats an assist. you throw him a lob. thats an assist. but if you post him up. and he has to back in, dribble, back in, dribble, back in, dribble. there goes your assist.

and that was the lakers offense shaqs entire tenure as a laker. these things hamper kobe's ability to be himself(an assassin just like MIKE).

Not Kobe's fault he had Shaq just like it's not other guys fault they didn't have Shaq. The Shaq piece is only a response to the rings argument.

All the guys you listed played in the East while Kobe played with Shaq. And only one of them had a team good enough to get to the Finals at the time. Kobe was actually going against the Mario Elies, Derek Andersons, Doug Christies, Reuben Jacksons, Steve Smiths, Old Pippens of the world in the playoffs when he was playing with Shaq not the guys you mentioned.

 

[Bilz]

oh i see you guys flawed perception.

just because Jordan played in an era where magic caught aids and was old. retired. bird was old, bad back, retired. dumars, i.thomas spanked him twice, then they aged out.

Using that same logic, Kobe's post-Shaq Lakers didn't win anything until the Celtics got old and injured.