The specter that still haunts capitalism

Kid McNamara

'97 Mike Bibby
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This capitalism ain't working y'all.
- Op (@JahFocus CS)

The irony...
Op typed this message using a mass produced computer product which, through a series of abstractions, utilizes protocols to send digital information over a number of highly complex fiber optic networks spanning large portions of land and massive bodies of water. Capitalism.

Have never heard a successful person spout this nonsense.



:francis:
 

JahFocus CS

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This capitalism ain't working y'all.
- Op (@JahFocus CS)

The irony...
Op typed this message using a mass produced computer product which, through a series of abstractions, utilizes protocols to send digital information over a number of highly complex fiber optic networks spanning large portions of land and massive bodies of water. Capitalism.

Have never heard a successful person spout this nonsense.



:francis:


Capital produced computers? It wasn't human labor and ingenuity? Interesting.

How ignorant that you resort to ad hominems, trying to say that people who disapprove of exploitation are unsuccessful (whether they are workers or intellectuals). Honestly I'd love to compare our achievements because I'm pretty sure I've got you beat there. And if I don't, I've still done quite well under the system compared to most people.

I'm sure you didn't even read the article or through the thread, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to come at me with this simplistic garbage. Give it an actual shot next time because I'm not engaging this lowly nonsense.
 

Kid McNamara

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Capital produced computers? It wasn't human labor and ingenuity? Interesting.

How ignorant that you resort to ad hominems, trying to say that people who disapprove of exploitation are unsuccessful (whether they are workers or intellectuals). Honestly I'd love to compare our achievements because I'm pretty sure I've got you beat there. And if I don't, I've still done quite well under the system compared to most people.

I'm sure you didn't even read the article or through the thread, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to come at me with this simplistic garbage. Give it an actual shot next time because I'm not engaging this lowly nonsense.

:mjlol:
 

JahFocus CS

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People, we live in a MIXED ECONOMY. Everybody does.

The economic states ya'll are arguing about literally do not even exist.

Where does the working class control the means of production in the United States? Where is labor not subjugated by capital? Because that would show some sort of a "mix."
 

Tate

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We live in a "mixed" economy only from a certain prospective. There are state ran programs that are socialized in that they seek to help the whole, not profit. But the capitalistic system of ownership reigns supreme by a large margin.

Keynesian economics and the welfare state are just a reformation of unsustainable laissez-faire. Theyre in effect a bribe against socialism. Or at least they were. Since the 80s capitalists have gotten much, much bolder.
 

JahFocus CS

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If a system isn't working for people - if it isn't providing them with a decent life, as we all are entitled to (if you believe we should have civilization is basically what that comes down to... if not then :yeshrug:)... then the system needs to go. The solution wasn't for slaves to try to buy their freedom and become slaveholders. The solution wasn't for Chinese peasants to try like hell to become a warlord and then emperor. When a system becomes a fetter on human development, it needs to go.

So if you want to say that working people are failures... you need to say the same about other exploited classes throughout history. What is a failure is the system that can't generate a decent life for everyone (we're not even talking about people who refuse to work. We're talking about people who work 40+ hours a week for fukk's sake), and can only guarantee war, constant economic crises (it is 2015. The ONLY thing that should be causing an economic crisis is some sort of natural disaster. Not some clown ass traders and bankers fukking up the economy), and increasing repression.
 

¢apitali$t Migraine

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:dwillhuh: You're popping all this degrading shyt towards other people but you're talking about going to night school and getting a medical billing cert... I applaud your efforts to improve your position but let's not act like you're some wunderkind trailblazer.

I fully support the Fight for $15. Fast food workers deserve a decent life, just as everyone does. Further, all workers should support the fight being waged by fast food workers and take lessons and inspiration from it. It should embolden all sectors of the working class. Everyone should be demanding higher wages. Not to mention, higher wages on the lower end of the spectrum will likely get quite a few people out of the street hustle and underground economy. Why? Because there might be the prospect of providing for yourself without having to worry so much about this murder bullshyt and pig harassment. Fast food is the $15/hr industry now :umad:



I will be the first to say that people bullshyt around a lot. But even if NO ONE was bullshyting, probably close to the same number of people would still be poor or in very precarious positions. Just as many would still have their labor exploited.


The rest of your posting I can't even take seriously because some of it is barely readable, and most of it is utterly asinine trolling that doesn't deserve a reply on this board.
I said that to illustrate a point u mfn moron. I didn't actually go to night school and get a cert in medical billing. I was referring to nikkas n bytches who get the fukk off they ass and do something rather than sit up and hope some shythead tosses out the whole system so they can have what Tyrone down the block has. U know good and goddamn well fast food work is not worth $15 an hour, ur just desperately trying not to sound like a complete goddamn idiot who has embraced an ideology created for dirty ass Bolivian tin miners and cotton growers and not u and ur fukk ass friends playing Draft Kings on ur Iphones during ur smoke break at Panda Express.

That minimum wage law is the dumbest goddamn thing to happen in decades and I could never be mad about idiotic socialist advances in this country. The shyt is designed not to fukking work. The capitalist system is in place to the point where the algorithms move the needles forward to neutralize that something for nothing bullshyt. It's why GOP a$$holes are either disingenuous or reactionary idiots when they get upset over dumb shyt like EBT benefits. These are instruments that are designed to take the less desirables out of the rat race.

Talk sum degrading, motherfukker, living on the goddamn govt tit is degrading as fukk. It is fukking disgusting to see a grown ass man sitting here saying that nikkas should be getting handouts from the state rather than working to build something on their own that they rightfully own. Workers getting exploited? bytch, that's why u don't have to do the goddamn job if u don't want to, and the government will subsidize big ass chunks of ur advanced education if u want something more. This shyt is made to encourage nikkas to be great, not chain them to some ol bullshyt n convince em that's all there is to life.

Again, u are applying an ideology made for motherfukkers engaged in back breaking slave labor in horrible 3rd world shytholes to the United States, the richest goddamn mfn country in the world, where nikkas on disability with food stamps get so fat they gotta use an electronic wheelchair to go to the store in the middle of the day and buy more fukking food. That's why u sound dumb as fukk, ur the goddamn enemy of the very people socialism was designed to help. They fukking despise u, and rightfully so. U have every mfn tool at ur disposal to become a goddamn boss but u wanna help idiots drink the Kool Aid and believe that ridiculously jerk off stupid shyt like a $15 minimum wage is totally applicable without any kind of negative economic blowback on themselves.

I talk cash shyt cuz I'm in the hood daily, surrounded by somethin for nothin nikkas with they hand and they chest out. Then cocksuckers keep takin losses n wanna be mad at somebody. Man, fukk from around me with that little boy shyt. I don't walk around with my hand out for shyt, n if I put something in another nikka hand, I expect to be paid back according to the terms that we discussed, no bullshyt.

I see dumb nikkas all fukkin day robbin goddamn loud packs n shyt, I'm like, u fukking idiot, sign up for school and go to class n get that money and fukkin be something. Get tf off ur mom couch. nikkas rubbin they hands together hopin to bump the mfn minimum wage up 100% cuz they too lazy to get off they ass n get some training for something feasible that can help em be successful in this country. In this first world of all the first worlds, this capitalistic Amerikkka, u can start out a worker and become a boss. In some fakkit socialist handout shyt, u just a worker, even if u a boss with boss abilities, ur given the same chicken shyt wage as a worker. The minimum wage is not made for people to sustain themselves on. It is either supplemental income or for people in school or people with other jobs as well.

A nikka can't have what I have doin the fukk shyt that he do, he gon have to maneuver himself into position to eat what I eat, cuz when I was eatin frozen burritos n wanted steak I had to do what I had to do to get it. Not try to overthrow the entire goddamn system to make me feel better about my unskilled worker ass.
 

Tate

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In a socialist system, there is no unemployment. So there is no need for hand outs to the able bodied. Someone who wishes to never work should favor social democracy, not socialism.

Socialism reduces time spent working by employing more and shortening hours, in addition to collective works like trash collection and road repair that often go undone in capitalist systems. In a more modern age, environmental efforts as well will enable millions to contribute and better their world.
 

OsO

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Where does the working class control the means of production in the United States? Where is labor not subjugated by capital? Because that would show some sort of a "mix."

We live in a "mixed" economy only from a certain prospective. There are state ran programs that are socialized in that they seek to help the whole, not profit. But the capitalistic system of ownership reigns supreme by a large margin.

Keynesian economics and the welfare state are just a reformation of unsustainable laissez-faire. Theyre in effect a bribe against socialism. Or at least they were. Since the 80s capitalists have gotten much, much bolder.

Both fair points.

So let's keep going with this. Let's say everyone is the US agrees to go "socialism" starting tmrw, what does that look like in your opinion?

How are decisions made? Who is in charge of distributing resources?
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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You would own what you use. I'm not sure what you are getting at with the "house but not the land it's on" question?

But if you go to work, you're not receiving the full value of your labor (unless you work in a cooperative, possibly). Your boss is taking a good portion of that away from you... if workers were paid the full value of their labor, there would be no profits for bosses to pocket.

You don't download or stream shows, movies, or music? We're at a point where we can produce for human need and want directly.

I can't speak too much about the abolition of money (I don't think anyone can at this stage of history). It is something to strive towards, certainly. This is assuming that we're not considering labor credits as money.
if theres no profits, theres no one to work there either since all businesses aren't run on your utopia of debt-free financing.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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People, we live in a MIXED ECONOMY. Everybody does.

The economic states ya'll are arguing about literally do not even exist.
They're not listening.

This guy is takling about businesses not profiting is the perfect system so "workers get all the money"...well not exacfly. The boss still gets more in most cases cause he brought in the most talent, work flow, and streamlined the business.

And he ignores how company finances work.

Hell, a lot of "start ups" run massive deficits just to get off the ground. In @JahFocus CS's scenarios, you can't do this
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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Where does the working class control the means of production in the United States? Where is labor not subjugated by capital? Because that would show some sort of a "mix."
The USA has some of, if not THE, strrongest unions in the world. Hell, its why some jobs don't even exist in the US anymore.
 
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