The Sopranos - The portrayal of Blacks

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

One of the most poignant episodes was when Bokeem came for Hesh regarding royalties that Jews jerked nikkax about way back when...Still holds true...

 

[Skip b]

Be mad about portrayals of Black's, when cacs, Jews, Mexicans, Russians all pretty much were shytted on and stereotyped, sopranos actually showed normal everyday racism we may face and not kkk type racism, what white father would want his daughter to date a black guy etc, shooting the shyt about Black's but can sit down and talk business when its about HUD, or can watch a boxing match with black's

 

[Skip b]

One of the most poignant episodes was when Bokeem came for Hesh regarding royalties that Jews jerked nikkax about way back when...Still holds true...

Lol at the rapper paying to get shot for publicity, episode came out like a week or two after camron got shot

 

[jilla82]

yall realize its a Tv show right?
The fuk is this thread about...its from the point of view of a Mob boss...lol
The fuk do you think they are going to show?

Damn near every character was a piece of shyt on the show...you want them to be PC Starbucks drinkers?

 

[Dwolf]

For me, its not defending it homie. It's stating what it is. I'm not defending it or crucifying it. I'm being blunt about what the show is and what its characters are. and 2, I don't see that as a flaw. There are fukked up people in the world and they walk amongst us. In that world, especially in that culture, that's how we're looked at. So like I said, I'm not going to the Sopranos for racial harmony or thoughtful critiques on race in America. It's true to its characters and the world those characters inhabit. There are a litany of other shows that exist where we can get a positive view of black men and women so I'm not getting hung up on this one



I think that a show like the Sopranos or even a show like Breaking Bad, they're lauded for the writing and their characters with most critics being well aware that these aren't nice men or men you want to be with. Same with Mad Men. Now does that mean I like the racism in the shows? Of course not. But I also get how it fits into that world and these characters aren't glorified as being good men or good women; they're glorified for being good or great characters and thats a big difference. One thing that's strongly evident in the wake of Twitter and other social media platforms is the idea that the shows or movies we love must have characters who are benevolent.

And that wasn't always the case at all. Archie bunker is a beloved character, not a beloved man. Norman Leer, as one of the most progressive guys in TV history, knew that character and knew that world and wanted to be honest about how guys like Archie view anyone who's not similar to him. He had issues with minorities, women, and democrats and hippies. And he let everyone know it. Norman didn't apologize for him in his writing. David Chase didn't apologize for Tony in his writing. Matt Weiner didn't apologize for Don Draper and neither did Jon Hamm. In fact, Hamm is on record saying how horrible of a person Don is and how he'd hate to even be around anyone like that.

And as far as us controlling our images, it starts with behind the camera stuff. More black writers, more black directors, more black produces who want to tell other stories. It's one reason I loved the last Barbershop movie or loved About Last Night or Girls Trip. Or blackish and grownish. Those are stories told by black storytellers who understand that. Matt Damon didn't say this shyt properly and didn't use the right avenue for it but he was 100% correct when he said true changes in diversity start behind the camera, not just in front of it

Good lawd this nikka lol

 

[ZEB WALTON]

Despite master genius being a rap steriotype

They showed him as being on their level with business and even showed a respect between the two groups.

And tony also showed respect the next season with that older guy who i think was protesting?

Even when charles s dutton was the cop on the show, tony wasnt really disrespectful but the cop took things the wrong way. I dont think tony tried to get him fired.

If anything the show was steriotyping italians the most

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I know Italian gangster are racist and blah...blah...blah... But Jesus Christ you would think black people have raped Tony's mother the way he hated blacks. The Godfather was not even on this level.

 

[Originalman]

For me, its not defending it homie. It's stating what it is. I'm not defending it or crucifying it. I'm being blunt about what the show is and what its characters are. and 2, I don't see that as a flaw. There are fukked up people in the world and they walk amongst us. In that world, especially in that culture, that's how we're looked at. So like I said, I'm not going to the Sopranos for racial harmony or thoughtful critiques on race in America. It's true to its characters and the world those characters inhabit. There are a litany of other shows that exist where we can get a positive view of black men and women so I'm not getting hung up on this one



I think that a show like the Sopranos or even a show like Breaking Bad, they're lauded for the writing and their characters with most critics being well aware that these aren't nice men or men you want to be with. Same with Mad Men. Now does that mean I like the racism in the shows? Of course not. But I also get how it fits into that world and these characters aren't glorified as being good men or good women; they're glorified for being good or great characters and thats a big difference. One thing that's strongly evident in the wake of Twitter and other social media platforms is the idea that the shows or movies we love must have characters who are benevolent.

And that wasn't always the case at all. Archie bunker is a beloved character, not a beloved man. Norman Leer, as one of the most progressive guys in TV history, knew that character and knew that world and wanted to be honest about how guys like Archie view anyone who's not similar to him. He had issues with minorities, women, and democrats and hippies. And he let everyone know it. Norman didn't apologize for him in his writing. David Chase didn't apologize for Tony in his writing. Matt Weiner didn't apologize for Don Draper and neither did Jon Hamm. In fact, Hamm is on record saying how horrible of a person Don is and how he'd hate to even be around anyone like that.

And as far as us controlling our images, it starts with behind the camera stuff. More black writers, more black directors, more black produces who want to tell other stories. It's one reason I loved the last Barbershop movie or loved About Last Night or Girls Trip. Or blackish and grownish. Those are stories told by black storytellers who understand that. Matt Damon didn't say this shyt properly and didn't use the right avenue for it but he was 100% correct when he said true changes in diversity start behind the camera, not just in front of it

Just one thing with archie bunker. Norman always made sure that archie always got the short end of the stick when it came to his backward ways, there was a lesson learned at the end show and even archie had to change his ways in following seasons. Not only that the people that archie directed his racist bull shyt too always threw it back to him whether calling him a honky to his face, calling him a racist or a bigot.

There is none of that in these mafia shows and movies when it comes to calling black folks N-words or the many racial stereotypes directed at black people. The black folks usually have to take the insult and keep it moving. There is no get back at the racist italian for his racist ways.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Just one thing with archie bunker. Norman always made sure that one archie always got the short end of the stick when it came to his backward ways, there was a lesson learned at the end show and even archie had to change his ways. Not only that the people that archie directed his racist bull shyt too always threw it back to him whether calling him a honky to his face, calling him a racist or a bigot.

There is none of that in these mafia shows and movies when it comes to calling black folks N-words or the many racial stereotypes directed at black people. They usually have to take the insult and keep it moving.

And what you said about Norman is what I'm saying about him not apologizing for his characters. He held their feet to the fire. David Chase didn't glamorize their lives or make it seem like they're good people.

 

[Originalman]

And what you said about Norman is what I'm saying about him not apologizing for his characters. He held their feet to the fire. David Chase didn't glamorize their lives or make it seem like they're good people.

Breh I am saying once again that Norman made sure that Archie got his just deserts for his racist and sexist behavior and got it from the people he threw the insults at.

There is no just deserts in these garbage mafia movies and tv shows when they throw that racist shyt at black folks. The black characters usually got take that shyt.

Also it kills me with folks saying how these folks are in real life. Well in real life we all know black folks who hate white people and call them all sorts of names all day. But these people aren't represented over and over in black movies. Like the italian racist or white racist in general are represented in white movies.

Tarantino italian ass will have a movie with some white character who will call black people N-words 100 times in a movie. You think some black movie gonna be green lighted with black racist character calling white folks cracker 100 times in a movie?

 

[MartyMcFly]

Breh I am saying once again that Norman made sure that Archie got his just deserts for his racist and sexist behavior and got it from the people he threw the insults at.

There is no just deserts in these garbage mafia movies and tv shows when they throw that racist shyt at black folks. The black characters usually got take that shyt.

Also it kills me with folks saying how these folks are in real life. Well in real life we all know black folks who hate white people and call them all sorts of names all day. But these people aren't represented over and over in black movies. Like the italian racist or white racist in general are represented in white movies.

Tarantino italian ass will have a movie with some white character who will call black people N-words 100 times in a movie. You think some black movie gonna be green lighted with black racist character calling white folks cracker 100 times in a movie?

I feel you on the last part. But here's my question: When these guys are shot, stabbed, arrested, or worse, is that just deserts in your mind or nah?

 

[jay211]

This is an insightful thread. Carry on the discussion.

I will say, Tony Soprano was written as a realistic representative of the world he inhabited. Homicidal, racist, ignorant, and hateful.

 

[jilla82]

Breh I am saying once again that Norman made sure that Archie got his just deserts for his racist and sexist behavior and got it from the people he threw the insults at.

There is no just deserts in these garbage mafia movies and tv shows when they throw that racist shyt at black folks. The black characters usually got take that shyt.

Also it kills me with folks saying how these folks are in real life. Well in real life we all know black folks who hate white people and call them all sorts of names all day. But these people aren't represented over and over in black movies. Like the italian racist or white racist in general are represented in white movies.

Tarantino italian ass will have a movie with some white character who will call black people N-words 100 times in a movie. You think some black movie gonna be green lighted with black racist character calling white folks cracker 100 times in a movie?

yes...especially if there was a chance of it making money.
The same way white folks would go to a Dead Prez/P.E./Ice Cube show...they would watch a movie like that.

I dont really see why you have a problem with this show.
What exactly do you want? Why does it bother you so much?

A lot of Italians hate shows like that because it keeps the negative Italian stereotypes going...
...but its real life.

 

[MartyMcFly]

yes...especially if there was a chance of it making money.
The same way white folks would go to a Dead Prez/P.E./Ice Cube show...they would watch a movie like that.

I dont really see why you have a problem with this show.
What exactly do you want? Why does it bother you so much?

A lot of Italians hate shows like that because it keeps the negative Italian stereotypes going...
...but its real life.

It's real life but obviously not all Italian Americans are gangsters. They don't like the stereotype the same I don't like the stereotype that all brothers are bad dads, thugs, in and out of prison, or drug users and philanderers. Real life, at least for the majority, is a mostly found in sitcom settings. Regular family with regular people trying to make ends meet, raise their kids, or just figure life out. But those aren't the stories Scorsese or Chase or a lot of directors are interested in telling.

 

[jilla82]

It's real life but obviously not all Italian Americans are gangsters. They don't like the stereotype the same I don't like the stereotype that all brothers are bad dads, thugs, in and out of prison, or drug users and philanderers. Real life, at least for the majority, is a mostly found in sitcom settings. Regular family with regular people trying to make ends meet, raise their kids, or just figure life out. But those aren't the stories Scorsese or Chase or a lot of directors are interested in telling.

because it doesnt sell...nobody cares.

Goodfellas/Sopranos/Godfather etc... are some of the best Tv and movies ever.
Making them safer would not make them better pieces of media...it would just be fake.

Numbers dont lie.