The Sopranos - The portrayal of Blacks

[JahBuhLun]

And I can understand that but I don't take issue with a show about a$$holes being a$$holes. And if you really don't think Italians are outraged when something like this or Goodfellas or The Godfather hits, do the knowledge. The Italian defamation league hit Goodfellas hard in 1990 and raked the movie and Scorsese over the coals for it. And they also had a run in with David Chase about The Sopranos.

The point I'm making is, I'm not looking to a movie or Tv show about Italian mobsters for sterling portrayals of black people. I've got other avenues for that in the media. Should there be more? Hell yes. But this isn't the place to look for it. We've got Cosby Show, Martin, Fresh Prince, Black ish, a different world, the barbershop movies, and I'm sure other things I'm not listing that show we all aren't thugs or hoods. That we have dreams and ideals and can start our own businesses, be great parents, put our kids through college, and retire happily. Again, we should have a lot more and it should be normal, but The Sopranos is not the place to find that breh. Just like if I'm an Italian cat, I'm not looking to the sopranos or The Godfather or goodfellas for positive portrayals of my people. That would be asinine of me. So it stands to reason its asinine for me as a black man to look for that from a movie about racists pricks who are also sociopaths and a lot worse

You make some solid points, but understand that these italian mob shows and movies are held up as gold standard and must see viewing. Award winning, all time list making shyt. What I'm saying is that these characters and the public's viewing of these characters are left on the screen and not brought into people's psyche in terms of real life attitudes and feelings. And I have to be careful because, I'm straying away from the original topic, I was flipping the OP's thought and presented a different viewpoint.

I think it's important that we as Black people, make a stronger effort in controlling how we are portrayed, in terms of balance, because there are Black people who are criminals, but there just needs to be balance. Because think about it, the positive Black shows you listed were 20-30 years ago, except for Black-ish. Think about about, we can only come up with one show on tv that shows Black people in a positive light, and it's 2018.

 

[Skip b]

Tony's daughter got her virginity taken by a Moulie tho

Who gives a fukk who that meth head fukked

 

[JahBuhLun]

Exactly. Expect great race portrayals in a tv show about a criminal brehs.

If there was a black/spanish/etc equivalent of Sopranos tv series I would want the same raw portrayal. Sexist, racist, abusive whole 9.

This show wasn't meant to make you feel good. Dudes make money off people and races they hate everyday.

The Wire had a good balance of good and bad Black characters and even the bad characters had likeable,qualities. Those characters stand the test of time because of their humanistic vices. but your point is solid.

 

[Skip b]

dbl

 

[MartyMcFly]

Cmon. Y’all are coming up with the same weak excuses that always get brought up when we talk about racism in gangster movies. It’s not about “bad guys being depicted as bad guys” it’s about black characters being depicted as stereotypical caricatures.

Every other character on this show, even the minor one offs like Bobby Baccala’s father is a “bad guy” but they are written with nuance and humor and given real personalities and their existence is usually related to the larger theme of the show...why can’t the exact same writers put that effort towards a black character?

I loved the show but I see no reason to defend an obvious flaw...

For me, its not defending it homie. It's stating what it is. I'm not defending it or crucifying it. I'm being blunt about what the show is and what its characters are. and 2, I don't see that as a flaw. There are fukked up people in the world and they walk amongst us. In that world, especially in that culture, that's how we're looked at. So like I said, I'm not going to the Sopranos for racial harmony or thoughtful critiques on race in America. It's true to its characters and the world those characters inhabit. There are a litany of other shows that exist where we can get a positive view of black men and women so I'm not getting hung up on this one

You make some solid points, but understand that these italian mob shows and movies are held up as gold standard and must see viewing. Award winning, all time list making shyt. What I'm saying is that these characters and the public's viewing of these characters are left on the screen and not brought into people's psyche in terms of real life attitudes and feelings. And I have to be careful because, I'm straying away from the original topic, I was flipping the OP's thought and presented a different viewpoint.

I think it's important that we as Black people, make a stronger effort in controlling how we are portrayed, in terms of balance, because there are Black people who are criminals, but there just needs to be balance. Because think about it, the positive Black shows you listed were 20-30 years ago, except for Black-ish. Think about about, we can only come up with one show on tv that shows Black people in a positive light, and it's 2018.

I think that a show like the Sopranos or even a show like Breaking Bad, they're lauded for the writing and their characters with most critics being well aware that these aren't nice men or men you want to be with. Same with Mad Men. Now does that mean I like the racism in the shows? Of course not. But I also get how it fits into that world and these characters aren't glorified as being good men or good women; they're glorified for being good or great characters and thats a big difference. One thing that's strongly evident in the wake of Twitter and other social media platforms is the idea that the shows or movies we love must have characters who are benevolent.

And that wasn't always the case at all. Archie bunker is a beloved character, not a beloved man. Norman Leer, as one of the most progressive guys in TV history, knew that character and knew that world and wanted to be honest about how guys like Archie view anyone who's not similar to him. He had issues with minorities, women, and democrats and hippies. And he let everyone know it. Norman didn't apologize for him in his writing. David Chase didn't apologize for Tony in his writing. Matt Weiner didn't apologize for Don Draper and neither did Jon Hamm. In fact, Hamm is on record saying how horrible of a person Don is and how he'd hate to even be around anyone like that.

And as far as us controlling our images, it starts with behind the camera stuff. More black writers, more black directors, more black produces who want to tell other stories. It's one reason I loved the last Barbershop movie or loved About Last Night or Girls Trip. Or blackish and grownish. Those are stories told by black storytellers who understand that. Matt Damon didn't say this shyt properly and didn't use the right avenue for it but he was 100% correct when he said true changes in diversity start behind the camera, not just in front of it

 

[Bleed The Freak]

For me, its not defending it homie. It's stating what it is. I'm not defending it or crucifying it. I'm being blunt about what the show is and what its characters are. and 2, I don't see that as a flaw. There are fukked up people in the world and they walk amongst us. In that world, especially in that culture, that's how we're looked at. So like I said, I'm not going to the Sopranos for racial harmony or thoughtful critiques on race in America. It's true to its characters and the world those characters inhabit. There are a litany of other shows that exist where we can get a positive view of black men and women so I'm not getting hung up on this one



I think that a show like the Sopranos or even a show like Breaking Bad, they're lauded for the writing and their characters with most critics being well aware that these aren't nice men or men you want to be with. Same with Mad Men. Now does that mean I like the racism in the shows? Of course not. But I also get how it fits into that world and these characters aren't glorified as being good men or good women; they're glorified for being good or great characters and thats a big difference. One thing that's strongly evident in the wake of Twitter and other social media platforms is the idea that the shows or movies we love must have characters who are benevolent.

And that wasn't always the case at all. Archie bunker is a beloved character, not a beloved man. Norman Leer, as one of the most progressive guys in TV history, knew that character and knew that world and wanted to be honest about how guys like Archie view anyone who's not similar to him. He had issues with minorities, women, and democrats and hippies. And he let everyone know it. Norman didn't apologize for him in his writing. David Chase didn't apologize for Tony in his writing. Matt Weiner didn't apologize for Don Draper and neither did Jon Hamm. In fact, Hamm is on record saying how horrible of a person Don is and how he'd hate to even be around anyone like that.

And as far as us controlling our images, it starts with behind the camera stuff. More black writers, more black directors, more black produces who want to tell other stories. It's one reason I loved the last Barbershop movie or loved About Last Night or Girls Trip. Or blackish and grownish. Those are stories told by black storytellers who understand that. Matt Damon didn't say this shyt properly and didn't use the right avenue for it but he was 100% correct when he said true changes in diversity start behind the camera, not just in front of it

These characters reflect how people act everyday in real life and their authenticity should be lauded for it.

Part of the appeal of these shows is these characters are who they are. And painting them as anything as such is not authentic. Those shows are not the place to feel racial harmony.

Having Tony Soprano suddenly be bubbly to Black Folk to be PC is disingenuous to the role.

 

[Jayou Ayen]

As others have mentioned, the mobsters on this show are lowlifes, they don’t respect anyone except those they are allied with(and not even then sometimes).

If the writers were to portray them as progressive in race relations, it would ring hollow. If you’ve ever watched The Sons of Anarchy, you’d understand how lame it looked when they tried to downplay the racism of motorcycle gangs. And at the end of that series they were killing multiple black men every episode.

You shouldn’t feel camaraderie for 90% of the characters on Sopranos, they are foul human beings, and are depicted as such.



39

 

[Bleed The Freak]

Folks need to be consistent here. Spike Lee does the same thing. He tells it like it is and lets the audience decide.

All the great ones do.

Lee
Scorcese
Copolla

Get over it folks.

 

[NYC Warrior]

A lot of..

like I expected.

 

[Bleed The Freak]

A lot of..

like I expected.

What caping? Enjoying a tv show?

Do you criticise Spike Lee, Singleton or The Hughes Bros. for the same?

There is no point to make. Dudes are reaching here.

 

[JahFocus CS]

The Mafia and I'd argue most Italian-Americans are racist IRL so I'm not sure why the Sopranos as a show would be held up as a uniquely offensive show

 

[Lootpack]

i never had a desire to watch this show.

You're missing out breh

 

[JahBuhLun]

The Mafia and I'd argue most Italian-Americans are racist IRL so I'm not sure why the Sopranos as a show would be held up as a uniquely offensive show

I think the point is that they are being racist to less than respectable Black people and that's how the Black people were being portrayed on the show. As opposed to being racist towards Black small business owners or Black lawyers or Black police officers. I think that's what the OP is saying. Maybe.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

shyt remind me of that movie where that cracka was chasing 2 Pac around the citythis how they get they joints off through movies and TV cuz it ain't going down in real life

Italians are one of those groups of whites who aren't as mouse like when it comes to making their feelings known about black people in real life. If you are an unrecognizable face in the neighborhood there can potentially be tension. Of course if you have some size on you they won't move on you unless they have numbers

 

[the cac mamba]

fukk the sopranos the only time they got it right was bokeem woodbines black crime boss that couldn't stand tony's fat ass...

that dude was lowkey one of the most honorable dudes on the show

the viewer knew that he was right about the whole story arc, and hesh fukked the kid over in the 50s