The Seminole Wars...No the Gullah Wars. A war oblivious to African Americans

[bouncy]

Interesting.

It seems like your family has a rich history.

Not like that, as far as money. My grandmother was a maid, and grandfather owned his own mechanic company. I guess he couldnt work for people because I just learned he used to be a liquor runner during prohibition, and my mother used to always brag about how he never worked for anyone, and she was like that, until recently. She still works a job where she has some type of say, and not just a worker.

I guess my grandparents knew how to hustle because they had five kids who never went hungry, and had cars, and things they wanted.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Bump...

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Everyone interested please CHECK this out!
http://www.johnhorse.com/trail/04/b/01.htm

It kinda draws a connection between the black Seminoles influence on not only the civil war but also the freeing of slaves. Here's one of my favorite passage from the link:

The strategic value of an alliance with the contrabands become more and more apparent to Lincoln throughout 1862. By the close of the year, Lincoln finally bowed to the requests of his generals and allowed the contrabands to fight. Their military prowess quickly sparked an emotional and political revolution. As the black rebels succeeded in war, Northerners found it increasingly hard to deny them their freedom. By January 1, 1863, President Lincoln reversed his earlier position against emancipation and embraced freedom for all slaves “within any State … [then] in rebellion against the United States.” He had decided that the “War for Union” would now be a war to end slavery. “In the end it was not free blacks or white abolitionists, but slaves in the South whose actions most hastened emancipation[in 1863],” writes James Brewer Stewart in Holy Warriors:
The destruction of slavery was thus begun on the battlefield and then ratified in the Emancipation Proclamation. In this quite restricted but important sense, abolition was first achieved neither by Republican politicians nor by white abolitionists, but by those blacks, free and slave, who intruded into a white nation’s civil war.
Stewart’s analysis is equally apt for the smaller—but earlier—emancipation of rebellious American blacks, which took place when the Black Seminoles "intruded" on a white nation's plans for territorial expansion in Florida.

Mind-blogging how most of this isn't known.Yet people have this idea that blacks in the United States never fought for their freedom and that there was only a few slave rebellions...

Again thanks @Supper

@IllmaticDelta I heard you say you are of Gullah descent. GET IN HERE!

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Another good passage:

Parallels between the contrabands and the Black Seminoles continue even in the realm of historiography. Just as nineteenth-century historians overlooked the Black Seminoles' successful fight for freedom in Florida, so too did they ignore the effectiveness of black freedom fighters in the Civil War. In the years after the Civil War, the emancipation of the southern slaves was depicted as a supreme act of white benevolence. This version of events robbed African Americans of a rightful perception of agency in their own history. And it resulted in text books that to this day do not celebrate those very real African American figures—the Black Seminoles and the contrabands—who followed in the footsteps of the Founding Fathers by successfully taking up arms against tyranny. While historians marginalized both groups, their actions were in fact solidly within the mainstream of U.S. history, helping realize the full potential of the American Revolution.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Somewhat amazingly, even twentieth-century historians failed to grasp the significance of the Black Seminoles as black militants. To this day most scholars of African American history misunderstand their rebellion, if they are aware of it at all.

Throughout the twentieth century, historians debunked myths about American slavery as they sought a more accurate vision of the South's peculiar institution. Beginning in the 1920s, scholars analyzed myriad forms of black resistance to slavery—sabotage, laziness, escape, even murder and suicide were held up as examples. And yet curiously historians have not been able to find any examples of successful armed revolts against American slavery. According to conventional scholarly wisdom, in fact, all of the rebellions involving armed slaves, from the New York City revolt in 1712 to John Brown’s raid in 1859, were military failures. Conventional wisdom further contends that slaves instigated no major insurrections in the U.S. after 1831, when Nat Turner led his rebellion in Virginia. The absence of armed revolts after 1831 has even been a scholarly riddle, along with the general absence of successful armed revolts taking place at any time on U.S. soil.*

And yet a successful, armed slave rebellion tool place after 1831—and it happened to have been the largest in U.S. history. This was, of course, the rebellion led by the Black Seminoles in Florida from late 1835 through 1838.

 

[Blackking]

this was a great thread last year.......

very interesting.

 

[BillBanneker]

Everyone interested please CHECK this out!
http://www.johnhorse.com/trail/04/b/01.htm

It kinda draws a connection between the black Seminoles influence on not only the civil war but also the freeing of slaves. Here's one of my favorite passage from the link:


Mind-blogging how most of this isn't known.Yet people have this idea that blacks in the United States never fought for their freedom and that there was only a few slave rebellions...

Again thanks @Supper

@IllmaticDelta I heard you say you are of Gullah descent. GET IN HERE!

You know if it isn't white euro jesus coming to save the day, its getting buried and never heard from again.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

You know if it isn't white euro jesus coming to save the day, its getting buried and never heard from again.

Indeed. I'm starting to have more and more of a hard time that the civil war was the sole event that ended slavery in the United States.

 

[BillBanneker]

Indeed. I'm starting to have more and more of a hard time that the civil war was the sole event that ended slavery in the United States.

Pretty much, can't remember who said this but, "whoever lets there oppressor tell their history, then they're a fool". Going by my 11th grade history textbook, you'll think that all the slaves were perfect little lambs. After finding out about Seminole Wars and the subsequent invasion of the U.S gov't into Florida (on behave of the slaveholders who were scared that all their slaves would run there) made me realize to research on my own.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Pretty much, can't remember who said this but, "whoever lets there oppressor tell their history, then they're a fool". Going by my 11th grade history textbook, you'll think that all the slaves were perfect little lambs. After finding out about Seminole Wars and the subsequent invasion of the U.S gov't into Florida (on behave of the slaveholders who were scared that all their slaves would run there) made me realize to research on my own.

Agreed and like in one of the quotes I posted, mainstream historians even try to suppress it.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

he impact that both the contrabands and the Black Seminoles had on emancipation brings to light one of the buried themes of American history, the effectiveness of black militancy. The contrabands offer the best demonstration of successful black militancy against U.S. slavery; after them, there is no finer example than the Black Seminoles, who won the country's first offer of freedom for rebel blacks not through the benevolence and idealism of white rulers, but through the forceful assertion of black rights and interests. The quasi-legal emancipation of the Black Seminoles and some of their allies in 1838 was only indirectly related to the general southern emancipation of 1863, and yet the later event vindicated the courage, perseverance, and vision of the black militants in Florida. And it confirmed the historical and moral vision of those nineteenth-century Americans, like Joshua Reed Giddings, Frederick Douglass, and an array of top-ranking federal army officers, who drew inspiration from the Black Seminoles and their story.

Again CLICK on the link, its very interesting.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

http://www.johnhorse.com/trail/04/c/01.htm

At the same time that the fight for black liberty was reaching a climax in the United States, in Mexico, America’s most successful black freedom fighters were persevering through another series of violent civil upheavals in their new country. Like the U.S., Mexico was wracked by civil conflicts. John Horse had practiced neutrality in the affairs of his adopted country, but both the War of the Reform (1858-1861) and the War of the Intervention (1861-1864) tested his approach. By 1864, Mexico was so weak that France was able to install a foreign emperor, Maximilian I of Austria. According to Black Seminole traditions, John Horse forsook neutrality to help expel the French, fighting on the side of the Mexican patriot Benito Juárez.

While details from the period are sparse, memoirs and government reports make it clear that John Horse enjoyed fame throughout the borderlands. As a reward for his military services, he reportedly became a commissioned colonel in the Mexican army. Whether he received the honor for fighting the French or the Apaches remains uncertain. Equally obscure are details of his daily existence. Despite the turmoil of Mexican politics, however, this may have been one of the more secure periods in the maroon leader’s life. By the time emancipation reached Texas on June 19, 1865, John Horse, then about 53, had lived for 15 years in a country without slavery. He was still married to Susan, with whom he would remain until his death. His exploits had won him prestige and fame as a scout—and likely a measure of wealth, at least comparatively speaking. Mexicans and Anglos described encounters in the plains and mountains with El Coronel Juan Caballo. He was often seen riding his favorite white horse, “American,” who was mounted with a silver-plated saddle and a gold-plated pommel in the shape of a horse’s head.

Connecting the Dots:

Now why was John horse(1812?-1882) able to go into mexico?
(You have to connect the dots, these aren't isolated events)

Guerrero, Vicente (1783-1831)
Vicente Guerrero was born in the small village of Tixla in the state of Guerrero. His parents were Pedro Guerrero, an African Mexican and Guadalupe Saldana, an Indian. Vicente was of humble origins. In his youth he worked as a mule driver on his father’s mule run. His travels took him to different parts of Mexico where he heard of the ideas of independence. Through one of these trips he met rebel General Jose Maria Morelos y Pavon. In November 1810, Guerrero decided to join Morelos. Upon the assassination of Morelos by the Spaniards, Guerrero became Commander in Chief. In that position he made a deal with Spanish General Agustin de Iturbide.

Iturbide joined the independence movement and agreed with Guerrero on a series of measures known as “El plan de Iguala.” This plan gave civil rights to Indians but not to African Mexicans. Guerrero refused to sign the plan unless equal rights were also given to African Mexicans and mulattos. Clause 12 was then incorporated into the plan. It read: “All inhabitants . . . without distinction of their European, African or Indian origins are citizens . . . with full freedom to pursue their livelihoods according to their merits and virtues.”

Subsequently, Guerrero served in a three person “Junta” that governed the then independent Mexico from 1823-24, until the election that brought into power the first president of Mexico Guadalupe Victoria. Guerrero, as head of the “People’s Party,” called for public schools, land title reforms, and other programs of a liberal nature. Guerrero was elected the second president of Mexico in 1829. As president, Guerrero went on to champion the cause not only of the racially oppressed but also of the economically oppressed.

Guerrero formally abolished slavery on September 16, 1829. Shortly thereafter, he was betrayed by a group of reactionaries who drove him out of his house, captured and ultimately executed him. Guerrero’s political discourse was one of civil rights for all, but especially for African Mexicans. Mexicans with hearts full of pride call him the “greatest man of color.”


Sources:
Theodore G. Vincent, The Legacy of Vincente Guerrero: Mexico’s First Black Indian President (Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 2001); Lane Clark, “Guerrero Vicente,” Historical Text Archive. <Historical Text Archive: Electronic History Resources, online since 1990 >

When the general Manuel Gómez Pedraza won the election to succeed Guadalupe Victoria as president, Guerrero, with the aid of general Antonio López de Santa Anna and politician Lorenzo de Zavala,[2] staged a coup d'état and took the presidency on 1 April 1829.[3] The most notable achievement of Guerrero's short term as president was ordering an immediate abolition of slavery[4] and emancipation of all slaves. During Guerrero's presidency the Spanish tried to reconquer Mexico however the Spanish failed and were defeated at the Battle of Tampico.


Battle of Tampico

One year after the Battle of Mariel, there was a new attempt at reconquest by Spain, from Cuba, confirming the suspicions of the Mexican authorities. Spain appointed Gen. Isidro Barradas, who left the port with 3,586 soldiers with the name "Spearhead Division" and on July 5, went to Mexico. The fleet consisted of a flagship, called the Sovereign, two frigates, two gunships and 15 transport ships, each commanded by Admiral Laborde.

On July 26, 1829 the fleet arrived in Cabo Rojo, near Tampico (State of Tamaulipas), and from there began its operations on 27 trying to land 750 troops and 25 boats. The expedition began their advance towards Tampico while the boats were moored at the Pánuco River. The Battle of Pueblo Viejo, which developed between 10 and September 11, 1829 marked the end of the Spanish conquest attempts in Mexico. General Isidro Barradas signed the capitulation of Pueblo Viejo, in the presence of generals Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, Manuel Mier y Teran and Felipe de la Garza.[10]

Finally On December 28, 1836, Spain recognized the independence of Mexico under the treaty Santa Maria-Calatrava, signed in Madrid by the Mexican Commissioner Miguel Santa Maria and the Spanish state minister Jose Maria Calatrava.[11][12] Mexico was the first former colony whose independence was recognized by Spain; the second was Ecuador on February 16, 1840.


After his death, Mexicans loyal to Guerrero revolted, driving Bustamante from his presidency and forcing him to flee for his life. Picaluga, a former friend of Guerrero, who conspired with Bustamante to capture Guerrero, was executed.

Honors were conferred on surviving members of Guerrero's family, and a pension was paid to his widow. In 1842, Vicente Guerrero's body was returned to Mexico City and interred there.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

The historical treatment of the Black Seminoles ran parallel to the experience of the Buffalo Soldiers, black members of the Ninth and Tenth U.S. Cavalries and Twenty-Fourth and Twenty-Fifth U.S. Infantries, with whom the scouts regularly served after 1875 and into the 1890s. The two groups mingled at Fort Duncan and then at Fort Clark, where the army moved most of the scouts by 1876. In many ways, the Black Seminoles were pioneers for the Buffalo Soldiers. They won the first effective U.S. emancipation of rebellious slaves, in 1838, which established military and legal precedents for the emancipation that black soldiers helped win through the Civil War. (Many of the first Buffalo Soldiers were Civil War veterans.) Out west the maroons shared knowledge of the frontier and, more practically, helped locate the enemy, ensuring the success of the black regiments.

 

[MostReal]

Indeed. I'm starting to have more and more of a hard time that the civil war was the sole event that ended slavery in the United States.

Breh this is what I was saying in my thread. That John horse linl is where I got my original idea for that thread

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Breh this is what I was saying in my thread. That John horse linl is where I got my original idea for that thread

Did you read through the whole link? Because some of the stuff said is just