The Official Street Fighter 6 thread! We Open world fighting now?!

[Versa]

Breh, I was having this convo with my homie like 2 weeks ago
SF keeps getting saucier with the rushdown and the zoners
But the template for grapplers is out there in SNK land
Just lemme chain my scoops together Capcom
pls

The reality is that the old school grappler archetype is deeply flawed and needs a revamp. KOF style is much more interesting.

Only people who really want Gief buffs are Gief players. Nobody else would want a grappler to be top tier

@O.Red made a good point that Laura and Mika are spicy grapplers that add much needed flavor to the archetype.

I'm fine with the pure grappler dying tbh. It's the same issues every time and I'm tired of their players crying.

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

Breh, I was having this convo with my homie like 2 weeks ago
SF keeps getting saucier with the rushdown and the zoners
But the template for grapplers is out there in SNK land
Just lemme chain my scoops together Capcom
pls

Right. Blazblue blue did it too.

And I'm not even saying that they need to make you have 3 different command grabs all string together in 1 combo into super like KOF does, since KOF needs that for the 3 character team format. Just at least make 1 command grab's actual grab/slam be able to then cancel into supers. It's not asking for too much and would definitely up every grappler's game.

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

The reality is that the old school grappler archetype is deeply flawed and needs a revamp. KOF style is much more interesting.

Only people who really want Gief buffs are Gief players. Nobody else would want a grappler to be top tier

Yeah and hence why I'm not a fan of SF's grapplers nearly as much in most accounts, save for the bae Laura. They lack finesse in actual aesthetic design and actual grappling styles comparatively to KOF's variety of grappler style and characters aesthetic designs.

KOF is built different tho. It's like 30% grapplers in the game and about 55-65% of characters have command grabs, even if they're not grapplers. At best, SF will just give characters an air throw, lol. Although they do have a few more non grapplers and against type characters having command grabs as well these days, like Blanka and JP.

 

[JuvenileHell]

At that point in the vid is an example, albeit I think technically that move is a hit grab, but she combos off the actual slam. So it's damaged isn't neutered beforehand, unlike how Manon's hitgrab into super works.

Or even better shown here, when she gets both parts of the grab off before combo-ing into each super, level 1-3.

Forget Shermie, Goro Daimon was a nightmare not only could he combo some of his grabs, one of his grabs had invincibility on start up so he can grab you through normals and projectiles He had otg grabs too



Imagine Gief with any of that sauce

 

[Batsute]

Elevating lower tiers chars is better than nerfing the top

Ken and JP really aren't an issue to where they need to be nerfed. The issue is the lower characters don't get to have as much fun and feel relatively incomplete

Especially with grapplers. SF6 really hates grapplers

Bruh that approach doesn’t work unless you’re at the end of lifecycle of a game. Eventually you’ll just become a Kusoge game, and SF6 could possibly go for 7-8 years naturally barring a Japanese earthquake or covid then we’d probably have SF6 for 10.

SFV buffed Alex, Ryu, Sagat, Juri, Gill etc for multiple seasons and they went no where. I’m not saying gut Ken or DeeJay, I think DeeJay’s ambiguous ass jumping lk is annoying but I don’t think it should be nerfed.

@Khalil's_Black_Excellence made a good point about combo-ing into super as a fix. Hell let certain grabs give floor bounce DR cancel off em and trade it vs better oki.

As fun do you mean options to get or tools

 

[Versa]

Bruh that approach doesn’t work unless you’re at the end of lifecycle of a game. Eventually you’ll just become a Kusoge game, and SF6 could possibly go for 7-8 years naturally barring a Japanese earthquake or covid then we’d probably have SF6 for 10.

SFV buffed Alex, Ryu, Sagat, Juri, Gill etc for multiple seasons and they went no where. I’m not saying gut Ken or DeeJay, I think DeeJay’s ambiguous ass jumping lk is annoying but I don’t think it should be nerfed.

@Khalil's_Black_Excellence made a good point about combo-ing into super as a fix. Hell let certain grabs give floor bounce DR cancel off em and trade it vs better oki.

As fun do you mean options to get or tools

Deejay jump LK is still great with my changes though. It just means that should you anti air with it with a normal you are actually rewarded with a low damage combo. Right now the reward is too heavily skewered in Deejay's favor.

You play Manon right? So if you anti air it with standing LP, you could then do OD QCF+KK into qcb+mk

 

[Batsute]

Deejay jump LK is still great with my changes though. It just means that should you anti air with it with a normal you are actually rewarded with a low damage combo. Right now the reward is too heavily skewered in Deejay's favor.

You play Manon right? So if you anti air it with standing LP, you could then do OD QCF+KK into qcb+mk

You talking about his kick or the knee?

Either way it still feels like an over correction, as manon my anti airs are solid, I’m gonna crouch.hp and go for the grab.

#GrabSet

 

[TripleAgent]

Breh, I was having this convo with my homie like 2 weeks ago
SF keeps getting saucier with the rushdown and the zoners
But the template for grapplers is out there in SNK land
Just lemme chain my scoops together Capcom
pls

If they do that, the damage will be shyt. No thanks.

The reality is that the old school grappler archetype is deeply flawed and needs a revamp. KOF style is much more interesting.

Only people who really want Gief buffs are Gief players. Nobody else would want a grappler to be top tier

@O.Red made a good point that Laura and Mika are spicy grapplers that add much needed flavor to the archetype.

I'm fine with the pure grappler dying tbh. It's the same issues every time and I'm tired of their players crying.

Gief as a standalone character isn't bad, he just doesn't abuse DR well, which is really bad in this game. All he needs really is fixed Lariat, less normals that are cold to DI, and MAYBE Green Hand. I prefer crazy damage and working or tricking opponents into getting it. Infinitely better than 5 and post-nerf 4 IMO. I'm sure Capcom doesn't want him but so good, as the crying will be like never before. If they improved the defensive options, he'd probably fly up tiers as well, but he will always require actual brain cells, so that and the DR based gameplay impose a ceiling on him. I would prefer nerfs to the top of the cast if they refuse to make defensive improvements. Either way, nowhere to go but up.

Forget Shermie, Goro Daimon was a nightmare not only could he combo some of his grabs, one of his grabs had invincibility on start up so he can grab you through normals and projectiles He had otg grabs too



Imagine Gief with any of that sauce

NEVER GONNA HAPPEN

 

[Versa]

You talking about his kick or the knee?

Either way it still feels like an over correction, as manon my anti airs are solid, I’m gonna crouch.hp and go for the grab.

#GrabSet

Yeah it's easy for her. She has the best AAs in the game probably.

I'm interested in why you disagree with 90% of my changes though so get back to me on that.

 

[superchoops]

Some changes I've come up with going into Season 2

Universal System Changes

- throw looping requires drive rush always

- drive impact meaty does not cause a wall splat if blocked

- drive rush is deactivated anytime a character's fireball is on screen.

- loosen inputs to make it easier to do super without messing up

- reduce hit box on all crouching medium kicks that can be drive rush cancelled

Character Changes

JP
- OD amnesia spheres disappear if JP is hit
- OD amnesia no longer invincible on frame 1
- Reduce juggle ability from drive rush
- Shorten cr. mp hitbox
- jumping heavy punch hurt box expanded
- standing heavy punch hurtbox expanded

Ken
- Dragon lance at worst -3 on block and 0 on block at best
- Run -> dragon lance does not side switch unless meter it is OD.
- jumping fierce hit box reduced and hurtbox expanded
- Standing light punch pushback on block increased

Guile
- Flash kick range reduction
- cr.mk plus frames on hit reduced

Deejay

- jumping light kick puts deejay in floating combo state if he is hit
- reduced recovery on just cool -> light kick
- crouching heavy kick recovery increased
- Drive rush speed reduced

Cammy
- standing light punch hit box reduction
- dive kick damage reduction

Chun Li
- increased recovery on Kikoken
-

Juri

- st.mp reduced from +2 to +1
- st mp pushes further out on block


Blanka
- Blanka Chan dolls do not reset between rounds
- Perfect Parry makes Blanka recover closer to the opponent after blanka ball
- SA2 damage reduction

Luke
- invincibility on Super Art 1 removed
- crouching fierce hitbox reduced
- Jumping heavy punch hitbox reduced and hurtbox expanded

Marisa
- Command grab damage reduced by 10%

Kimberly
- Super Art 1 is a frame 1 reversal
- standing fierce hitbox expansion
- Bomb stash recovers between rounds

Jamie
- Damage penalty without drinks removed
- Jamie loses 2 drinks between rounds but keeps whatever is left over
- crouching heavy kick increased recovery

Lily
- Loses 1 wind stock between rounds but keeps whatever is left over
- tomahawk buster hitbox expanded to give her consistent combo ender without wind
- Give Super Art 3 attack throw properties to make it easier to combo into

Manon
- Drive rush sped up
- command grab sends opponent further away, making oki(offensive pressure afterwards) impossible
- cr.mk special cancellable

Ryu
- standing medium punch increased from -1 on block to +1
- Denjin Charge sped up

Honda
- EX headbutt no longer vulnerable to throw
- Buttsplash is now -3 on block across the board


Zangief

- Super Ar 1 invincible on frame 1
- lariat hitbox expanded to hit from both sides

i disagree with so much of this lol

jamie should lose all of his drinks on round end, because him getting them is so baked into his character. even a level 2 jamie to start off is way too strong, AND the damage reduction penalty? waaay too strong then with the twins target combo and a divekick. it'd be different if him getting drunk just gave him damage but this mf has a whole kit that just gets better. start back at lit meter 0 with this nikka. i'd nerf his st.fp so that the first hit only comes out point blank so that drive impact could counter it tho


marisa command grab is so slow that the damage is fine. she's not even a grappler, so make it so that she doesnt get oki off of it. as it stands, it (and jamie command grab) are the best command grabs in the game


lily needs a decent ender but make ex dp with windstock fully invincible for starters

chun-li fireball is fine. If they wanna increase the recovery then they should reduce the charge time for it because it's something like 50f. sonic boom is 45, ex kikoken is also 45


manon grab already doesn't really give her oki from what i remember unless you're falling for a dashup command grab, or the weak high/low which both options can be drive impacted...she can't even safely drive rush after landing the command grab or the hitgrab. honestly there's two ways they could buff manon which is fully lean into the medals and make the hitgrab do a bit more damage since you gotta combo into it and maybe give her better moves based off the medals, or just make the rest of her kit not ass

honda ex headbutt is fine as is, let that nikka get bodied by throws. i dont think honda players lose because of that headbutt and lord knows he doesn't need it. i'd argue they need to figure out a distinction between medium and heavy headbutt because i dont see a reason to do the medium one right now

i only really agree with jp od amnesia spheres disappearing if he's hit. personally i think his conversions are the best thing about him. I'd probably make some of his normals like j.rh not as sfv levels of dumbness tho.

 

[O.Red]

Bruh that approach doesn’t work unless you’re at the end of lifecycle of a game. Eventually you’ll just become a Kusoge game, and SF6 could possibly go for 7-8 years naturally barring a Japanese earthquake or covid then we’d probably have SF6 for 10.

SFV buffed Alex, Ryu, Sagat, Juri, Gill etc for multiple seasons and they went no where. I’m not saying gut Ken or DeeJay, I think DeeJay’s ambiguous ass jumping lk is annoying but I don’t think it should be nerfed.

@Khalil's_Black_Excellence made a good point about combo-ing into super as a fix. Hell let certain grabs give floor bounce DR cancel off em and trade it vs better oki.

As fun do you mean options to get or tools

I swear I don't understand this mentality for the life of me. I'm seeing it happen right now with the DBFZ scene.

Since when does "make the lower tiers characters better so everyone has a better chance and we get more variety"=kusoge???? That's what I mean when I talk about nikkas hating fun

Pre Luke SFV is still possibly the most balanced fg ever made, and even then Luke doesn't break the game he just made it boring. Half of those characters you named did great. Ryu and Alex by end of game are busted(don't let Alex players gaslight y'all) and Juri was dogshyt in the beginning but buffs made her a great character that could, and did compete. FANG is another great example of the benefits of elevating low tier characters. So what does "went nowhere" mean? The game has 45 characters every character can't win a tournament. The point of balance is increasing the likelihood that they can

Fun, options,tools, it's all the same to me. I just want games to have variety. Games will always have tiers but it's a problem when shyt starts looking too much like the haves and the have nots. Again I always mention SF5 because you never saw that much variety in tournament for a fg. That game, like it or not, gave the entire cast a minimum amount of momentum that allowed them to turn a match around

Look at Ken. That nikka got everything and I'm fine with that, Ken is fun as fukk. But you look at the lower tiers and can see all the shyt they're obstensibly not allowed to do. That's why I say characters like Gief and Lily feel incomplete. That's my problem. I want everyone to have fun the way Ken/JP players are

That's my concern with where the game is headed. ALL the top Manon players have dropped her. EndingWalker just won a tournament with Ryu and is STILL dropping him for Ken . This is a problem, and it's not one that can simply be fixed with "Just nerf Ken and JP" Those characters, from the ground up, are built in such a way that they'll likely eat for the life cycle of the game regardless. I just want the lower characters to have bigger plates , because this top 8s full of Ken vs JP shyt is already getting old

 

[Versa]

i disagree with so much of this lol

jamie should lose all of his drinks on round end, because him getting them is so baked into his character. even a level 2 jamie to start off is way too strong, AND the damage reduction penalty? waaay too strong then with the twins target combo and a divekick. it'd be different if him getting drunk just gave him damage but this mf has a whole kit that just gets better. start back at lit meter 0 with this nikka. i'd nerf his st.fp so that the first hit only comes out point blank so that drive impact could counter it tho


marisa command grab is so slow that the damage is fine. she's not even a grappler, so make it so that she doesnt get oki off of it. as it stands, it (and jamie command grab) are the best command grabs in the game


lily needs a decent ender but make ex dp with windstock fully invincible for starters

chun-li fireball is fine. If they wanna increase the recovery then they should reduce the charge time for it because it's something like 50f. sonic boom is 45, ex kikoken is also 45


manon grab already doesn't really give her oki from what i remember unless you're falling for a dashup command grab, or the weak high/low which both options can be drive impacted...she can't even safely drive rush after landing the command grab or the hitgrab. honestly there's two ways they could buff manon which is fully lean into the medals and make the hitgrab do a bit more damage since you gotta combo into it and maybe give her better moves based off the medals, or just make the rest of her kit not ass

honda ex headbutt is fine as is, let that nikka get bodied by throws. i dont think honda players lose because of that headbutt and lord knows he doesn't need it. i'd argue they need to figure out a distinction between medium and heavy headbutt because i dont see a reason to do the medium one right now

i only really agree with jp od amnesia spheres disappearing if he's hit. personally i think his conversions are the best thing about him. I'd probably make some of his normals like j.rh not as sfv levels of dumbness tho.

Thanks for the feedback

- Good points on Jamie. Another thing that popped in my head is if the Jamie knows they're gonna lose the round, they'll just stock drinks up so they have something for next round lol. I do believe at the very least, the damage penalty needs to go if he doesn't keep his drinks.

- Marisa is my main. I'm just trying to be fair about nerfs. I'd much rather it do less damage than lose the oki tbh lol

- EX Wind Buster being fully invincible is a good one, or SA1 being frame 1 invincible. Either works.

- When you say Chun Li's fireball is fine, I must ask: have you ever fought against a Modern Chun Li?

- The rest Manon's kit isn't ass though. She has the best AAs in the game, REALLY good normals, a reversal starting at level 1 super, etc. She just need some type of ability with drive rush, because right now its essentially non existent. If her drive rush is sped up like I'd suggested, command grab would need to push them further out or DR into command would be too strong of an oki option IMO.

- I'm fine with EX headbutt being a true reversal if it means butt splash isn't + on block anymore. Honda isn't top tier, but fighting against him is extremely obnoxious and boring. So I was thinking upgrade his defense in exchange for weakened offense.

- I don't believe OD Amnesia should be a true reversal. The reward for working your way in vs a character of JP's archetype has always been guaranteed pressure. The best zoner with the best anti airs and the best pokes and the best damage conversions and the best set play shouldn't also have the best reversal lol. Level 1 SA being frame 1 is good enough.

What are your issues with Kimberly, Ryu, Ken , Guile , Luke, and Gief's suggested changes?

EDIT: I should also say that with the changes I suggested, Ken and JP are probably still the best characters in the game

 

[superchoops]

Thanks for the feedback

- Good points on Jamie. Another thing that popped in my head is if the Jamie knows they're gonna lose the round, they'll just stock drinks up so they have something for next round lol. I do believe at the very least, the damage penalty needs to go if he doesn't keep his drinks.

- Marisa is my main. I'm just trying to be fair about nerfs. I'd much rather it do less damage than lose the oki tbh lol

- EX Wind Buster being fully invincible is a good one, or SA1 being frame 1 invincible. Either works.

- When you say Chun Li's fireball is fine, I must ask: have you ever fought against a Modern Chun Li?

- The rest Manon's kit isn't ass though. She has the best AAs in the game, REALLY good normals, a reversal starting at level 1 super, etc. She just need some type of ability with drive rush, because right now its essentially non existent. If her drive rush is sped up like I'd suggested, command grab would need to push them further out or DR into command would be too strong of an oki option IMO.

- I'm fine with EX headbutt being a true reversal if it means butt splash isn't + on block anymore. Honda isn't top tier, but fighting against him is extremely obnoxious and boring. So I was thinking upgrade his defense in exchange for weakened offense.

IMO Marisa doesn't need changes like that. I'm sure they'll do SOMETHING but i think she's okay where she is. Her command grab at its quickest point is what, 13 frame startup or something? i think thats a fair compromise. She's in a fair spot imo.

Modern Chun Li got nerfed, did she not? I know it was unintentional that she had a 45f startup but now it's been normalized to 50f like her others. I dont think the recovery between Modern and Classic were any different. I at least have 700 matches of with Classic under my belt. It's good for walking behind it but i dont think it's anything gamebreaking.

Manon's kit is good from a fundamental standpoint, her AA's are great, her normals are a mixed bag (st.mp is the god drive rush checker i'll stand on that), the level 1 super is 10f startup, 1f fully invuln, before like 12f strike/throw invuln, that thing is ass to me. Her drive rush is ass yes but i don't think that's her issue as a grappler.
she just doesn't get damage like that outside of building into medals. everybody else with a normal drive rush cancel can have SOME fun, manon is just trying to finagle a 4HP into hitgrab or maybe the 236KK into half-baked meterdumps..the more i think about it, the more i think her damage output is probably close to someone like cammy outside of the looming threat of the medal'd out command grab. even her punish counter party starter (st.rh) doesn't give her shyt but the choice between the sweeps or the leaping ballet kicks. as it stands, she's a hybrid grappler who has to work into her benefits as a grappler and kinda lacking options of abare that characters in her area (Makoto, Laura, SFV Alex to an extent) would traditionally have.

 

[Versa]

IMO Marisa doesn't need changes like that. I'm sure they'll do SOMETHING but i think she's okay where she is. Her command grab at its quickest point is what, 13 frame startup or something? i think thats a fair compromise. She's in a fair spot imo.

Modern Chun Li got nerfed, did she not? I know it was unintentional that she had a 45f startup but now it's been normalized to 50f like her others. I dont think the recovery between Modern and Classic were any different. I at least have 700 matches of with Classic under my belt. It's good for walking behind it but i dont think it's anything gamebreaking.

Manon's kit is good from a fundamental standpoint, her AA's are great, her normals are a mixed bag (st.mp is the god drive rush checker i'll stand on that), the level 1 super is 10f startup, 1f fully invuln, before like 12f strike/throw invuln, that thing is ass to me. Her drive rush is ass yes but i don't think that's her issue as a grappler.
she just doesn't get damage like that outside of building into medals. everybody else with a normal drive rush cancel can have SOME fun, manon is just trying to finagle a 4HP into hitgrab or maybe the 236KK into half-baked meterdumps..the more i think about it, the more i think her damage output is probably close to someone like cammy outside of the looming threat of the medal'd out command grab. even her punish counter party starter (st.rh) doesn't give her shyt but the choice between the sweeps or the leaping ballet kicks. as it stands, she's a hybrid grappler who has to work into her benefits as a grappler and kinda lacking options of abare that characters in her area (Makoto, Laura, SFV Alex to an extent) would traditionally have.

I'M ALL FOR MARISA GETTING NO CHANGES. FINE BY ME

Yeah, Manon is basically too honest. They made her honest as can be out of fear for her medals. SF6 is not an honest game though.

Love Chun. I just got her to master last week. I feel in time people will come to feel that her neutral is perhaps a little too dominant in the right hands, but that may not be until some adjustments are made at top. Chun vs JP feels really bad. I feel she fights Ken fine though.

What's your CFN? Always looking for strong people to fight.

 

[superchoops]

I'M ALL FOR MARISA GETTING NO CHANGES. FINE BY ME

Yeah, Manon is basically too honest. They made her honest as can be out of fear for her medals. SF6 is not an honest game though.

Love Chun. I just got her to master last week. I feel in time people will come to feel that her neutral is perhaps a little too dominant in the right hands, but that may not be until some adjustments are made at top. Chun vs JP feels really bad. I feel she fights Ken fine though.

What's your CFN? Always looking for strong people to fight.

cfn: sprchps

im just starting my ryu journey, im so assy with him for the moment