Essential The Official MMA Thread

[Roman Brady]

DJ is top 5 all time.

Not in question the point is he's not the greatest of all time

 

[Roman Brady]

Is Dodson legit?

I remember when Dana white sd he was creating this division for him, well I haven't seen Dodson do much really in last 3 years. To be great u gotta beat greats.

Are you all saying Benevidez is a great now? The best fighter DJ has faced was cruz and he lost.

Bones Jones has beaten legends and greats. Same with Conor, beating aldo alone ranks higher than nething DJ has done thus far.

 

[storyteller]

The UFC's failure with DJ was not developing his opponents properly. Joseph Benavidez cleans out the division but DJ beat him twice. Kyoji Horiguchi got rushed into his title shot instead of getting the opportunity to build his name; but he's dominated everyone before and after DJ in his UFC career and now Rizin is gonna be a murder spree. Cejudo was rushed too, guy is still a promising prospect off of wrestling alone but his striking needs to be built up. None of those cats besides Benavidez was given the time or opponents to prove their value before they got in there with DJ. If you look at DJ's early career though, heading into the UFC....Miguel Angel Torres was the WEC bantamweight champ when they had the best bantamweight division in MMA. Kid Dynamite won a grand prix by KO'ing Royler Gracie, Caol Uno and Genki Sudo consecutively. Add in Dodson who put TJ Dillashaw to sleep winning TUF and whose only loss at 135 came in a razor thin decision against a guy who missed weight and you have 4 names that have real proven clout along with a couple of guys that should be decorated names if they stay on their development paths. It's hard to have wins over former UFC champions when you've held the belt since the UFC started your division; using that as a measuring stick isn't remotely fair.

Also, I don't think the argument is GOAT here, just that he's making his way into the conversation. He's somewhere from 5-8 right now with no 125'er in sight who can beat him, so he's a title defense to break the record and a move up away from making his push for the peak.

 

[Roman Brady]

The UFC's failure with DJ was not developing his opponents properly. Joseph Benavidez cleans out the division but DJ beat him twice. Kyoji Horiguchi got rushed into his title shot instead of getting the opportunity to build his name; but he's dominated everyone before and after DJ in his UFC career and now Rizin is gonna be a murder spree. Cejudo was rushed too, guy is still a promising prospect off of wrestling alone but his striking needs to be built up. None of those cats besides Benavidez was given the time or opponents to prove their value before they got in there with DJ. If you look at DJ's early career though, heading into the UFC....Miguel Angel Torres was the WEC bantamweight champ when they had the best bantamweight division in MMA. Kid Dynamite won a grand prix by KO'ing Royler Gracie, Caol Uno and Genki Sudo consecutively. Add in Dodson who put TJ Dillashaw to sleep winning TUF and whose only loss at 135 came in a razor thin decision against a guy who missed weight and you have 4 names that have real proven clout along with a couple of guys that should be decorated names if they stay on their development paths. It's hard to have wins over former UFC champions when you've held the belt since the UFC started your division; using that as a measuring stick isn't remotely fair.

Also, I don't think the argument is GOAT here, just that he's making his way into the conversation. He's somewhere from 5-8 right now with no 125'er in sight who can beat him, so he's a title defense to break the record and a move up away from making his push for the peak.

I am a bit about citing achievements in Japan against non zuffa calibre opponents as a gauge of anything perfect example is aoki. He looks like a world beater then he comes to strikeforce and bellator and gets exposed by north americas best. Besides when kid faced DJ he was like 1-2 and had lost to Joe warren

As for the rest

 

[storyteller]

I am a bit about citing achievements in Japan against non zuffa calibre opponents as a gauge of anything perfect example is aoki. He looks like a world beater then he comes to strikeforce and bellator and gets exposed by north americas best. Besides when kid faced DJ he was like 1-2 and had lost to Joe warren

As for the rest

Yeah, it definitely came after Kid took a leave from MMA to compete for the Olympics (I've heard he was good enough to get in but got hurt but I wasn't following) but just in terms of saying "DJ didn't beat any champions" I'd argue a grand prix win is champion caliber. Granted, you're right that Japanese fighters get exposed sometimes but I'd say at that point in time the light divisions in Japan were strong (especially below 155 because UFC didn't have those classes). Genki Sudo was my DUDE especially, entertaining as all hell. Any excuse I have to post highlights from dude is one I'll take

 

[The G.O.D II]

I am a bit about citing achievements in Japan against non zuffa calibre opponents as a gauge of anything perfect example is aoki. He looks like a world beater then he comes to strikeforce and bellator and gets exposed by north americas best. Besides when kid faced DJ he was like 1-2 and had lost to Joe warren

As for the rest

So by your logic that excludes Fedor from GOAT right if you don't want to include Japanese achievements?

 

[LinusCaldwell]

I would love to see Cruz in a rematch with Garbrandt. That will let us all know where he stands.

Aldo has a lot to prove. Sounds crazy for a guy with 1 loss in a decade, but it's the way responded to the loss. If I get starched in the first round in under a minute, and then I'm offered a rematch, no way in the world I turn that down.

And maybe I'm bugging but I still want to see Jones take a tune up first. He has not fought in more than a year and he looked mediocre against OSP. But then again Jones is a special fighter.

I would like a Cody rematch too but that doesn't mean Cruz it stops Cruz from being at the top as well.

As for Aldo he wanted to fight but his manager said no because he felt his weight would be an issue to cut in that short amount of time. Weight issues have plagued Aldo in his UFC career... so I get that.... next time we see Aldo in the octagon he dominates Edgar. If he easily handles Max they need to find a way to let him face Conor again.

 

[Roman Brady]

So by your logic that excludes Fedor from GOAT right if you don't want to include Japanese achievements?

your poor reading comprehension rears its ugly head again, last I checked zuffa absorbed pride so we got to see a lot of those fighters capabilities in north america at some point (with some before like randleman)

But while we are on the subject you aren't completely incorrect (just not for the reason u think) as I have always stated The HW division is the least skilled across the board.

To string the amount of wins consistently for the length of time he did and beating crocop is commendable but let's not forget his Ws consisted of Arona(a LHW), Sobral(LHW), yanagiswa,herring,valavicious, randleman(LHW), Gary Goodridge(@37),Hunt, Lindland(MW), Chris haseman (LHW and loser to Matt hughesand Hong man just think he gets a little too much praise. In part because pride fans have an inferiority complex, everything pride was bigger and better except when they all came to America and for the most part looked like trash

 

[morris]

I would like a Cody rematch too but that doesn't mean Cruz it stops Cruz from being at the top as well.

As for Aldo he wanted to fight but his manager said no because he felt his weight would be an issue to cut in that short amount of time. Weight issues have plagued Aldo in his UFC career... so I get that.... next time we see Aldo in the octagon he dominates Edgar. If he easily handles Max they need to find a way to let him face Conor again.

After that KO he should have been in shape.

I see Max beating him, maybe by stoppage late

your poor reading comprehension rears its ugly head again, last I checked zuffa absorbed pride so we got to see a lot of those fighters capabilities in north america at some point (with some before like randleman)

But while we are on the subject you aren't completely incorrect (just not for the reason u think) as I have always stated The HW division is the least skilled across the board.

To string the amount of wins consistently for the length of time he did and beating crocop is commendable but let's not forget his Ws consisted of Arona(a LHW), Sobral(LHW), yanagiswa,herring,valavicious, randleman(LHW), Gary Goodridge(@37),Hunt, Lindland(MW), Chris haseman (LHW and loser to Matt hughesand Hong man just think he gets a little too much praise. In part because pride fans have an inferiority complex, everything pride was bigger and better except when they all came to America and for the most part looked like trash

Wasn't Kevin Randleman former UFC HW champ?? Let's not forget Nogueira, who was arguably one of the best HW (Rico give him a good go though). Fact is, he was the best during a weak HW era and he dominated.

 

[The G.O.D II]

your poor reading comprehension rears its ugly head again, last I checked zuffa absorbed pride so we got to see a lot of those fighters capabilities in north america at some point (with some before like randleman)

But while we are on the subject you aren't completely incorrect (just not for the reason u think) as I have always stated The HW division is the least skilled across the board.

To string the amount of wins consistently for the length of time he did and beating crocop is commendable but let's not forget his Ws consisted of Arona(a LHW), Sobral(LHW), yanagiswa,herring,valavicious, randleman(LHW), Gary Goodridge(@37),Hunt, Lindland(MW), Chris haseman (LHW and loser to Matt hughesand Hong man just think he gets a little too much praise. In part because pride fans have an inferiority complex, everything pride was bigger and better except when they all came to America and for the most part looked like trash

So my reading comprehension is so called poor but then you go and regurgitate all the points I was making earlier

 

[storyteller]

It's funny when talking all time HW's, Werdum submitted Overeem, Fedor, Velasquez and Big Nog. I got Fedor and Big Nog as clear top all time HW's and Velasquez was looking like an ATG in the making before the injury bug hit him. Second tier wins over Hunt, Nelson and Big Foot are on his resume too. But I don't think he ever gets mentioned in the GOAT HW conversation and I include myself here; it's just funny that his resume looks sick without the context of some of his wins (ie: Fedor and Big Nog both well past their primes and Cain deciding not to train at elevation for a five round fight...at ridiculous elevation).

 

[Roman Brady]

Wasn't Kevin Randleman former UFC HW champ?? Let's not forget Nogueira, who was arguably one of the best HW (Rico give him a good go though). Fact is, he was the best during a weak HW era and he dominated.

yes randleman was a HW champ just like rashad won the HW TUF but size wise he wasn't a natural heavy weight. He was just an ultimate roider. I didn't feel I needed to mention nog as I don't think nog was a scrub that was one of his credible wins

 

[Roman Brady]

So my reading comprehension is so called poor but then you go and regurgitate all the points I was making earlier

Nog, Cro cop, Coleman are zuffa calibre are they not? Each achieved success in their own right so those wins can not be disputed. The fighters I did mention some never even fought anywhere in the majors (in America), and some weren't even HWs and on whole have an average to terrible record just because he fought them on the much heralded ground of pride shouldn't mean we should overate those wins

 

[FaTaL]

Demetrius calling out mcgregor

Nikka please nobody wants to see that

 

[LinusCaldwell]

After that KO he should have been in shape.

I see Max beating him, maybe by stoppage late


Wasn't Kevin Randleman former UFC HW champ?? Let's not forget Nogueira, who was arguably one of the best HW (Rico give him a good go though). Fact is, he was the best during a weak HW era and he dominated.

I'm going with Aldo. Especially if he comes in as sharp as he did against Frankie