The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[voiture]

Now why would I want that?



It's just a fact that Israel is losing in the court of public opinion. Ireland, Norway and Spain decided to recognize Palestine in 2024. The ICC is seeking arrest warrants for Net and Yahoo and the rest of the barbarians in his circle, pro palestinian protests all over, losing the youth etc.

By the way, here is a map of countries that recognize Palestine. Notice anything interesting?

International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm following your logic..if Israel is losing world support because of this, then why stop them? Let them continue so their support comes down to 0.
According to you continuous cycle of violence means Israel will lose even though history says otherwise that they actually get more land.

 

[Hood Critic]

No, hamas is a terrorist organizing ham fistedly governing over Gazans.

The presumption is they cannot win a war against Israel and none of the Arab partners of value are offering them the support they’d need.

They tried and they’ve lost. They need to accept the L.


Hamas isn’t interested in peace. Neither is Bibi. He’s currently on trial, so this continued escalation is one of the few things keeping him in power.

Are they really "losing" though? This situation looks a lot like the Taliban standing by as the Afghani feudal lords were fighting with us because of them all so they could turn to the feudal lords like "see, you need us".

 

[Pressure]

Are they really "losing" though? This situation looks a lot like the Taliban standing by as the Afghani feudal lords were fighting with us because of them all so they could turn to the feudal lords like "see, you need us".

I’d imagine us using terms like genocide and ethnic cleansing or that their entire populace being displaced would mean they’re losing if we’re judging them in their governance.

The taliban was once the ruling government in Afghanistan….there is no such thing as a Palestine. I don’t see the comparison.

Unless you’re saying their terrorist group will continue to be around. Sure, I can concede that, but we can expect their expat leadership to probably die if dubious circumstances in the coming year.

 

[Hood Critic]

I’d imagine us using terms like genocide and ethnic cleansing or that their entire populace being displaced would mean they’re losing if we’re judging them in their governance.

The taliban was once the ruling government in Afghanistan….there is no such thing as a Palestine. I don’t see the comparison.

Unless you’re saying their terrorist group will continue to be around. Sure, I can concede that, but we can expect their expat leadership to probably die if dubious circumstances in the coming year.

The Palestinians are losing but is Hamas? I'm speaking to the idea of them being interchangeable, the Taliban and Afghans were not synonymous.

Whether Palestine was or is an official state is irrelevant, this has been my issue in this conversation, the idea that the Palestinian people "choose" Hamas is like saying we chose MAGA because Trump stumbled and bumbled his way into the WH.

The above is relevant because the reality is, Hamas the organization, the ideal, will live on after this conflict. The Palestinian National Authority may briefly be the representatives of the Palestinian people afterwards but when everyone stops looking or when the tanks roll out, does Hamas - backed by Iran - resume power like the Taliban in Afghanistan when we left.

 

[Hood Critic]

 

[Pressure]

The Palestinians are losing but is Hamas? I'm speaking to the idea of them being interchangeable, the Taliban and Afghans were not synonymous.

What have they gained?

Whether Palestine was or is an official state is irrelevant, this has been my issue in this conversation, the idea that the Palestinian people "choose" Hamas is like saying we chose MAGA because Trump stumbled and bumbled his way into the WH.

At one point they did. And at this point they currently still support them.

No one is making the argument that Gazans are subject to Hamas fascism/colonialism/etc.

Occam’s razor

The above is relevant because the reality is, Hamas the organization, the ideal, will live on after this conflict. The Palestinian National Authority may briefly be the representatives of the Palestinian people afterwards but when everyone stops looking or when the tanks roll out, does Hamas - backed by Iran - resume power like the Taliban in Afghanistan when we left.

they’re certainly only as relevant as their backers allow them to be. The problem here for them is the other regional powers aren’t backing their extremism.

Unless we see some major shift in the other regional partners they at best come back to a situation closer to pre 2005 than 2023.

That’s my opinion.

 

[that guy]

Joe Biden might actually be retarded

 

[Hood Critic]

What have they gained?

At one point they did. And at this point they currently still support them.

No one is making the argument that Gazans are subject to Hamas fascism/colonialism/etc.

Occam’s razor

they’re certainly only as relevant as their backers allow them to be. The problem here for them is the other regional powers aren’t backing their extremism.

Unless we see some major shift in the other regional partners they at best come back to a situation closer to pre 2005 than 2023.

That’s my opinion.

I'm fascinated by the claim that Turkey supports Hamas. Obviously they do so in an attempt to be diplomatic to both Israel and Hamas but there is a story floating around that a Hamas suicide bomb attack, supported by Turkey, was recently thwarted. I know Israel has frequently said as much, but I wonder how true it is that Turkey supports Hamas' agenda.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I'm following your logic..if Israel is losing world support because of this, then why stop them? Let them continue so their support comes down to 0.
According to you continuous cycle of violence means Israel will lose even though history says otherwise that they actually get more land.

they can’t reconcile their desire for Israel to just disappear.

It’s like Putin’s fantasy for Rus. Its religious.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Is that any different from the very violent ultranationalist settlers? They’re both the same symptoms but on opposite ends of the Palestine/Israel conflict. One state would mean the people on both sides that are simply interested in living in that land mass need to reimagine what their society looks like. Basically a similar action to ending apartheid South Africa, not to say SA is perfect now but it at least made it more possible to have oppressor and oppressed still in the same place.

If the extremists of Zionism decide to shoot nukes and act even more murderous then all it proves is that they are worse monsters that Hamas could only dream of being.

No. Why not unite Somalia and Eritrea and Dijbouti?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

So you want to ethnically cleanse 5 million indigenous people from their lands for a petulant fascist state?

Palestinians are not going anywhere. Israel will have to kill all 5 million of them and that’s why Israel is destined to lose one way or another.

Theres this weird thing yall do which is to invoke language as a defense for an actual argument instead of saying what you actually want or prefer.

I dont particularly care what you call it, because you’ll just use maximalist language anyways.

So yeah, why can’t Palestinians move to a place that saves them from incurring more violence and harm? or is that ethnic cleansing, and thus bad?

Palestinians were KICKED OUT of Jordan, Kuwait and Syria and Lebanon…and parts of Egypt. Maybe, they’re the problem?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Who talked about ethnically cleansing anyone? Read what I said...if hamas keeps fighting, this will be settled on the battlefield.

You must live in an alternative universe if you think continuous cycle of violence leads to Israeli loss. History is clear, when the violence erupts, Israel gains more land. The Palestinians should know that by now and try for peace and take any deal that they can get.

Right. They keep using language to attempt to nip an argument instead of making an argument. People relocate all the time. But when you call it ethnic cleansing they hope you dont want to continue the convo and hope you abandon the argument.

So…they stay there? Whats the solution here?

They did this shyt with the genocide argument like…hours after October 7th. And bombs hadn’t even dropped yet. Literally existing in Gaza was being called genocide so it’s like what are we arguing? Are we making solutions or describing states of affairs?


@voiture @Creflo ½ Dollar @invalid @Pressure @wire28 @ADevilYouKhow @88m3 @MeachTheMonster @Wargames @Tair @Da_Eggman

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Two state solution might work, but Arab nations absorbing Palestinians is ethnic cleansing by definition.

Israel is losing support on the world stage each day. They can’t maintain an apartheid state forever. The U.S is the only thing standing between Israel and pariah status.

What does calling it ethnic cleansing do for this argument? Does that make it a bad idea or are you just describing something???



@voiture @Creflo ½ Dollar @invalid @Pressure @wire28 @ADevilYouKhow @88m3 @MeachTheMonster @Wargames @Tair @Da_Eggman

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You guys act like Hamas is an internationally backed military army, with weapons of mass destruction, and a land mass as big as Russia.

The fact they can make the IDF, backed by the biggest army in the world, supplied weapons and money, back down, shows that Israel doesn't have any real goals, plans, or ability to remove Hamas.

Hamas isn't China or even north Korea.

At this point anything said is really just an excuse for ethnic cleansing and keeping Netanyahu put of prison.

Hamas backed down the IDF?

…what?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I'm fascinated by the claim that Turkey supports Hamas. Obviously they do so in an attempt to be diplomatic to both Israel and Hamas but there is a story floating around that a Hamas suicide bomb attack, supported by Turkey, was recently thwarted. I know Israel has frequently said as much, but I wonder how true it is that Turkey supports Hamas' agenda.

these Arab and muslim leaders can’t beat Israel conventionally so they just use antisemitism as a domestic rallying cry to secure their own autocratic bases.