The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[jj23]

Okay, but the problem here is you’re pretending the current response is either justified (terrorism is okay but never certain circumstances) or I provoked (it isn’t a direct response to a terrorist attack by neighboring gazans who are run by a government calling for the genocide of Israel).

If the inflection point for you disregards either you aren’t being serious.

Multiple posters have called y’all out for seemingly being incapable of denouncing oct 7 or being more interested to n pushing your world view that doesn’t actually have a realistic conclusion.

October 7th has been roundly condemned.

There are clearly people who hate Israel on this board. That isn't the majority though. The majority of people want the genocide to stop.

Does that stop with the end of Hamas? No.

Does it stop with Hamas not being in the government? No.

Based on the actions of Israel during the time of 'peace', Does a peaceful solution even begin with Hamas not being in government? No. At least I don't believe that.

It should also be pointed out that right now, Israel's cabinet is filled with "right wing extremists" (some of whom have committed acts of terrorism, but they get passes apparently) Netanyahu embraced these people to keep power and they want genocide.

So let's bring the Hamas scapegoat out onto full view.

If we are being honest life was easier when the atrocities being committed on the Palestinian population was garnering one or two news reports as opposed to 200.

We could enjoy our lattes in peace as Israel continued to encroach on Palestinian territory and kept a state of apartheid. Cause then it would have allowed us to smugly say, when that creep genocide was done, "WELL WHY DIDN'T THEY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?"

 

[Pressure]

You literally aren’t saying anything of value beyond, oh I’m outraged.

@NZA , what is your solution? What do yiu realistically believe can happen?

 

[NZA]

Y’all? What are you doing?

No one is coming to save them as long as Hamas in in power.

Accept it. It ain’t about right or wrong or moral imperatives.

It’s people telling you where they stand.

Y’all same guys losing your shyt arguing with me today we’re arguing with me when I told y’all what is happening is exactly what Israel said they’d do if an attack happens.

And for some reason you think the US is going to full stop banding Israel? No, that’s not happening. So start coming up with some real solutions or just accept that padding your ego isn’t going to help anyone.

i never said anybody was saving them or that america would abandon israel. i said that there is nothing the palestinians can do to make israel give up its genocide project. for some reason, you feel the need to comment at me without addressing that instead of all these tangential things you prefer to talk about.

 

[Pressure]

Based on the actions of Israel during the time of 'peace', Does a peaceful solution even begin with Hamas not being in government? No. At least I don't believe that.

A terrorist attack on a holy day isn’t peace. And there’s been no peace there for 8 decades .

It should also be pointed out that right now, Israel's cabinet is filled with "right wing extremists" (some of whom have committed acts of terrorism, but they get passes apparently) Netanyahu embraced these people to keep power and they want genocide.

They are. And right or wrong they’re filled with extemist for the same reason you say Hamas is in power. Millions of people next to you are okay with your genocide.

We could enjoy our lattes in peace as Israel continued to encroach on Palestinian territory and kept a state of apartheid. Cause then it would have allowed us to smugly say, when that creep genocide was done, "WELL WHY DIDN'T THEY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?"

No, if you believe the war is a net negative for Israel and its far right leadership you’re going to have to let it play out to that breaking point if you aren’t willing to accept the “pointless nonviolent concessions” as you describe them.

 

[Pressure]

i never said anybody was saving them or that america would abandon israel. i said that there is nothing the palestinians can do to make israel give up its genocide project. for some reason, you feel the need to comment at me without addressing that instead of all these tangential things you prefer to talk about.

That’s such a terrible framing. There is something that can be done to make regional and international partners more sympathetic and supportive.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

The obvious solution is to continue to put pressure on the US government to change it's stance on Israel, continue building awareness for the plight of Palestinians, awareness of Israeli atrocities, and support for the BDS movement.
This isn't going to change things in a week or even a year, but continued pressure will mean by 2028 a candidate can not run for president if they support the oppression of the Palestinians. Millennials and Gen Z are not having that shyt. We could even see something sooner if Biden's poll numbers force him to pivot or lose. This is seeming more and more unlikely, but he has to see he is nosediving his chances if he doesn't change course on multiple fronts soon.

We are (mostly) US citizens, and the only influence we have is over our own government. We can't move Israel, but we can influence our governments complicity. Focus on anything else is a waste of time.

Just a reminder to everyone that you do not need permission from this troll to oppose genocide or the US' complicity in it.

 

[NZA]

That’s such a terrible framing. There is something that can be done to make regional and international partners more sympathetic and supportive.

the funny thing is i get characterized as if i expect somebody to come save these people, but really im the realist. the options are all bleak. they have tried everything and it lead them to being almost completely sold out by arab leaders. the only thing i object to in here is blaming palestinians for israeli behavior. that's a cop out. if somebody wants genocide, they should at least be made to own it.

i do view genocide as the most likely thing to occur. the long shot is the arab street makes life so hard for the regional governments that they have to start a regional war which ends in a political solution for palestinians. the only way for that to happen is to do what hamas did and not go away quietly.

 

[Pressure]

The obvious solution is to continue to put pressure on the US government to change it's stance on Israel, continue building awareness for the plight of Palestinians, awareness of Israeli atrocities, and support for the BDS movement.
This isn't going to change things in a week or even a year, but continued pressure will mean by 2028 a candidate can not run for president if they support the oppression of the Palestinians. Millennials and Gen Z are not having that shyt. We could even see something sooner if Biden's poll numbers force him to pivot or lose. This is seeming more and more unlikely, but he has to see he is nosediving his chances if he doesn't change course on multiple fronts soon.

We are (mostly) US citizens, and the only influence we have is over our own government. We can't move Israel, but we can influence our governments complicity. Focus on anything else is a waste of time.

Just a reminder to everyone that you do not need permission from this troll to oppose genocide or the US' complicity in it.

How many years is that going to take when you know that only 4% of Americans even view that as pivotal to their vote and even the most popular figure on the left (Bernie) still supports giving aid to Israel?

Like I said, most of this “concern” isn’t about actually finding a quick solution.

 

[jj23]

A terrorist attack on a holy day isn’t peace. And there’s been no peace there for 8 decades .


They are. And right or wrong they’re filled with extemist for the same reason you say Hamas is in power. Millions of people next to you are okay with your genocide.


No, if you believe the war is a net negative for Israel and its far right leadership you’re going to have to let it play out to that breaking point if you aren’t willing to accept the “pointless nonviolent concessions” as you describe them.

War is not a net negative as long as Israel continues to be sent arms by the USA.

As long as that happens Israel is happy to bring this to its conclusion, and rely on people's 15 minute memories to kick in.

The international community has already shown, maybe ironically outside of South Africa, that they don't have the courage to stop this.

Doesn't mean it isn't genocide being played out in front of the world. Hamas just made this genocide hastened and pushed it into our faces.

So maybe this is the best thing, as it allows us to disregatd our conscience and get back to our latte morning faster.

 

[Pressure]

the funny thing is i get characterized as if i expect somebody to come save these people, but really im the realist. the options are all bleak. they have tried everything and it lead them to being almost completely sold out by arab leaders. the only thing i object to in here is blaming palestinians for israeli behavior. that's a cop out. if somebody wants genocide, they should at least be made to own it.

i do view genocide as the most likely thing to occur. the long shot is the arab street makes life so hard for the regional governments that they have to start a regional war which ends in a political solution for palestinians. the only way for that to happen is to do what hamas did and not go away quietly.

The current binning is a direct result of the oft 7 attack. That isn’t debatable.

We shouldn’t attempt to conflate our issues with settlements (which I haven’t seen anyone support) with the aftermath of a terrorist attack.

And as I said before, I’m not even mad if they feel they want to fight to the last man because of how Israel responded, but if we’re serious about a ceasefire Hamas is going to have to give it up.

 

[Pressure]

War is not a net negative as long as Israel continues to be sent arms by the USA.

As long as that happens Israel is happy to bring this to its conclusion, and rely on people's 15 minute memories to kick in.

The international community has already shown, maybe ironically outside of South Africa, that they don't have the courage to stop this.

Doesn't mean it isn't genocide being played out in front of the world. Hamas just made this genocide hastened and pushed it into our faces.

So maybe this is the best thing, as it allows us to disregatd our conscience and get back to our latte morning faster.

We sell arms to damn near the entire world .

You’re British , your Latte created this and still supports it.

South Africa is irrelevant, let’s be honest. Only reason folks harp on that is because they want to draw parallels between the two as if they didn’t overlap.

These are social media ideas. These aren’t real solutions.

 

[Pressure]

I’m not even trying to tell you how you should feel, but it’s extremely naive to think 21st century western society that has seen a rise in far right movements is going to course correct over Islamic terrorism and migrants when that’s one of the key factor that led to its rise.

 

[NZA]

The current binning is a direct result of the oft 7 attack. That isn’t debatable.

We shouldn’t attempt to conflate our issues with settlements (which I haven’t seen anyone support) with the aftermath of a terrorist attack.

And as I said before, I’m not even mad if they feel they want to fight to the last man because of how Israel responded, but if we’re serious about a ceasefire Hamas is going to have to give it up.

last i checked, hamas wasnt asking for ceasefire. israel wanted one after they killed their own hostages but they have not brought it up again recently. hamas wants to escalate this as much as possible and only stop if they can get high-value prisoners out of israeli jails. outside of that, they want the fight to grow even larger than what it is to achieve their political goals.

 

[jj23]

We sell arms to damn near the entire world .

You’re British , your Latte created this and still supports it.

South Africa is irrelevant, let’s be honest. Only reason folks harp on that is because they want to draw parallels between the two as if they didn’t overlap.

These are social media ideas. These aren’t real solutions.

Here you are deflecting again.

I never said this was a US only issue, but I do take note of the executive authorisations that have been approved. The hands of the UK are washed in blood.

South Africa being irrelevant makes your position on this clear. In the international world few have a say and that's the problem to begin with. We take our privileges as expected that have come at the expense of others for granted.

I'll stop at this stage. You have made your position clear.

 

[88m3]

South Africa being irrelevant makes your position on this clear.

Lettuce be realty...

South Africa isn't a serious country and they only have themselves to blame for that but I'll cut you some slack if you live in a BRICS country with only state run media