The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[mastermind]

That’s clearly not the case.

I don’t think Israelis and Palestinians should share a border and that’s a goal that should be worked towards so both groups can live fulfilling lives.

Israel officials have said that’s what they want to do since Oct. 7. It’s quite clearly the case and you are on board with it as is the Biden Admin. You can neg rep me all you want, but you are fine with ethnic cleansing.

Israel doesn’t have to defend itself by wiping out a group of people.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

That’s a disgusting thing to say.

Dictate where someone can live because why? Forgiveness is hard work. You think if Israel made genuine work to amends the settlers violence, Palestinians wouldn’t accept? That Palestinian wouldn’t stand up to Hamas if they had something tangible to hold on to?

Seems like the most reasonable solution to complex problem.

Because why? Because they keep massacring each other with one massacre only eclipsing the next.

No the settlers are shyt people, the state won’t change them and it’s clear some of the government don’t want them to. I don’t think some of the Palestinians would accept and I don’t blame them. That’s the point. Hamas purges their own people or are we going to pretend that isn’t a thing.

 

[42 Monks]

B dawg said we’re going to eradicate the Palestinians as a matter of policy…


Going to need a pdf or something tbh

Did we ever see a final count of Americans killed and kidnapped? I’m genuinely curious. I would imagine that plays a roll in how the US gov sees the current events.

I don’t think we’re going to give Hamas or Islam Jihad weapons shipments so idk what the other side of the argument is.

it literally is the policy though if you look at the measured decisions, deliberate passive stances, blatant obstruction of UN SC - which the US has spent decades validating btw - and so on. but for the record, yes, americans were killed and some returned in the hostage turnover. not really the point anymore though.

this isn't some obtuse, ongoing decision-making process. we put out stories about eventually sanctioning settlers while denying third parties the ability to leverage cease fire solutions or arbitration. ukraine had to answer hard questions when debris from an intercepted russian missile crashed in a neighboring country lol. meanwhile idf is knee deep in warcrimes and wants the US to pay the bill for more. the contrast is incredible.

two months later "we're growing concerned" like whiffs of new information is just now becoming available while at the same time enabling new structures to support them past the wildly disproportionate and unconditional support they've already received thus far.

the IDF said from the jump they were going to do this shyt like they literally, proudly proclaimed they were going to level gaza, relocate survivors, that no neutral party was safe, and that hostages/force review/long-range ramifications/etc was completely secondary. not in whisphers, but in press releases, interviews from the gov and mil leaders, and everyone in between.

The media is sensationalizing every twist and turn and laymen are rightfully frustrated and angry. Maybe big media thinks they’re doing their readers/watchers a service and showing “balance”.

one of the main things being sensationalized is the effect of the meaningless gestures, discussions, and displays of solidarity.

half the issues in this thread come from people who grasp the situation struggling to have a dialogue with those that can't. sometimes i empathize with both but other times like.... i get the exhaustion from both too.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Israel officials have said that’s what they want to do since Oct. 7. It’s quite clearly the case and you are on board with it as is the Biden Admin. You can neg rep me all you want, but you are fine with ethnic cleansing.

Israel doesn’t have to defend itself by wiping out a group of people.

Israel has the capacity to do what you’re saying but hasn’t. Why?

Only Israelis are allowed to die. Listen I get. None of this is lost on me and I take every word to heart. It’s not realistic.

 

[Json]

Seems like the most reasonable solution to complex problem.

Because why? Because they keep massacring each other with one massacre only eclipsing the next.

No the settlers are shyt people, the state won’t change them and it’s clear some of the government don’t want them to. I don’t think some of the Palestinians would accept and I don’t blame them. That’s the point. Hamas purges their own people or are we going to pretend that isn’t a thing.

You realize the Hutu and Tutis are still on the same land where a genocide occurred? Neighbors to people who killed their families.
Forgiveness has a lot of outcomes you don’t expect. The government, in a democracy, will change with its people. Doesn’t need to be everyone.

Reasonable? If someone told you 200 years ago, just throw those Jews into Europe,they definitely won’t try and come back.. would you believe it?

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

half the issues in this thread come from people who grasp the situation struggling to have a dialogue with those that can't. sometimes i empathize with both but other times like.... i get the exhaustion from both too.

@ADevilYouKhow does grasp the situation. He has heard the the genocidal rhetoric. He is being disingenuous when he claims he doesn't know what you're talking about. He's lying.

He's a Zionist. Not only is he aware, he completely supports it. He knows he can't come out and say he doesn't care about dead Palestinians, so instead he just talks around it and only posts in bad faith.

Israel has the capacity to do what you’re saying but hasn’t. Why?

Only Israelis are allowed to die. Listen I get. None of this is lost on me and I take every word to heart. It’s not realistic.

See what I mean?

He knows the truth, he's just going to play dumb because he knows how bad it looks to admit it. He's been doing this in this thread this whole time.

 

[42 Monks]

Israel has the capacity to do what you’re saying but hasn’t. Why?

Only Israelis are allowed to die. Listen I get. None of this is lost on me and I take every word to heart. It’s not realistic.

???

like..... cmon

 

[Pressure]

The US position on Hamas hasn’t changed and won’t post 10/7.

US policy on protecting Israel from other regional actors hasn’t changed either and likely won’t.

The fate of Gazans are unfortunately stuck in between those two position the US isn’t going to move on from.

 

[42 Monks]

@ADevilYouKhow does grasp the situation. He has heard the the genocidal rhetoric. He is being disingenuous when he claims he doesn't know what you're talking about. He's lying.

He's a Zionist. Not only is he aware, he completely supports it. He knows he can't come out and say he doesn't care about dead Palestinians, so instead he just talks around it and only posts in bad faith.


See what I mean?

He knows the truth, he's just going to play dumb because he knows how bad it looks to admit it. He's been doing this in this thread this whole time.

i don't like labeling folks or running with it out the gate. there's a real chance that some stuff just wasn't properly highlighted with folks in the past so i try to be exceptionally fair in HL

but at minimum, you can check if americans were killed/kidnapped if that's a factor in your current logic path. not being able to frame the scale of damage done by israel in response or categorically failing to acknowledge it as comically disproportionate is something else altogether.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

I don’t think any administration is going to allow Israel to be wiped out

State Department Bypasses Congress to Approve Israel’s Order for Tank Ammunition

It is the first time the Biden administration has declared an emergency to expedite arms shipments to the Middle East, which are controversial because of the civilian death toll from Israeli airstrikes.

www.nytimes.com

Israel is in no danger whatsoever of being in danger. It wasn't then, it's not now.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

You realize the Hutu and Tutis are still on the same land where a genocide occurred? Neighbors to people who killed their families.
Forgiveness has a lot of outcomes you don’t expect. The government, in a democracy, will change with its people. Doesn’t need to be everyone.

Reasonable? If someone told you 200 years ago, just throw those Jews into Europe,they definitely won’t try and come back.. would you believe it?

I’m not super up on what’s happening with the Hutu and Tutsis. I do know that Paul got kidnapped, tortured, and imprisoned recently but didn’t follow it that closely. There are tribal and religious conflicts across hot spots in Africa. Cameroon i think even has violence over French/English and I’m assuming that’s regional and tribal as well. Sudan which is currently taking place again has roots that go back how far?

I guess you could keep what’s happening going until that positive outcome comes to pass but at the cost of how many lives and other potential outcomes?


Guess the Romans, Arabs and more so Turks have some explaining to do

 

[Json]

I’m not super up on what’s happening with the Hutu and Tutsis. I do know that Paul got kidnapped, tortured, and imprisoned recently but didn’t follow it that closely. There are tribal and religious conflicts across hot spots in Africa. Cameroon i think even has violence over French/English and I’m assuming that’s regional and tribal as well. Sudan which is currently taking place again has roots that go back how far?

I guess you could keep what’s happening going until that positive outcome comes to pass but at the cost of how many lives and other potential outcomes?


Guess the Romans, Arabs and more so Turks have some explaining to do

The Sudan, as I understand it, is in the middle of a military brinkmanship. The same with a lot these African countries.

Military juntas ain’t what we are dealing with here on either side. Thankfully.

It’s just sad that displacing an entire population is seen as somehow more plausible than simply saying nah, let’s stop doing the thing making each other mad.

Crazy but giving them back the small parts of land is something we haven’t even tried.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Israel is in no danger whatsoever of being in danger. It wasn't then, it's not now.

Pretty sure they just suffered their worst terrorist attack ever and their enemies formed like Voltron

 

[mastermind]

Israel has the capacity to do what you’re saying but hasn’t. Why?

But they currently are doing it. Over 500 Gazan residents a day have died. Have you not been paying attention?

like they literally, proudly proclaimed they were going to level gaza, relocate survivors, that no neutral party was safe, and that hostages/force review/long-range ramifications/etc was completely secondary. not in whisphers, but in press releases, interviews from the gov and mil leaders, and everyone in between.

Nakba two they said. “We will have to occupy Gaza,” they said. Theyve been trying to get Egypt to take the displaced Gazans.

The Israeli government has told us they are going to ethnically cleanse Gaza to create a buffer area. It’s the point of this. It’s 19th century’s colonialism in the 21st century.

When Putin pulled some 19th century shyt last year, that was a problem. Exterminating the beasts from the region is okay because ethnoatates aren’t bad when they are US-backed.

 

[Pressure]

Israel is in no danger whatsoever of being in danger. It wasn't then, it's not now.

Israeli policy has long been to respond disproportionately as they believe that’s a deterrent against future bad actors.

That is to say being proportionate was never on the table and all Us talks have been around how disproportionate of an attack can occur before Israel harms their standing with their allies. And on appearing to Take into account actually minimizing civilian casualties.