The Official Formula 1 Thread 🏁

[MikelArteta]

Sir Lewis Hamilton continues making these cacs mad and I love it

 

[KillerB88]

I think in terms of talent, Hamilton and Alonso are his only equals in the post Schumacher era. I think his issue is that he has a hard time maturing into a more well rounded driver. He's in F1 since 2017, but he still hasn't managed to balance his aggressiveness with avoiding unnecessary risks. The golden boy treatment at Red Bull doesn't do him any good. If you compare that with Hamilton, he was constantly criticized in the early stages of his career. A lot of that criticism was unfair, but it matured him to a point where he seldomly makes the same mistake twice, is ready to apologize when he fukks up and would never risk a dnf when he is comfortably leading the championship and could just wait for another opportunity.

Max has been in F1 since 2015. And he’s not as good as Lewis and Alonso. He’s a Vettel tier driver. He only performs when he has a distinct pace advantage car wise over the truly elite drivers. You can’t really point out any classic drives or qualifying sessions from him. Even this season, people talk more about Lewis’ recovery drive in Imola than any race Max has won. He reminds me a lot of Kimi.

 

[MoneyTron]

Max has been in F1 since 2015. And he’s not as good as Lewis and Alonso. He’s a Vettel tier driver. He only performs when he has a distinct pace advantage car wise over the truly elite drivers. You can’t really point out any classic drives or qualifying sessions from him. Even this season, people talk more about Lewis’ recovery drive in Imola than any race Max has won. He reminds me a lot of Kimi.

Brazil 2016?

Stop trying to play that man short. He’s 23 with 50 podiums. He has Lewis’s full respect for a reason.

I think he is just as talented as Alonso and Lewis were at the same age, maybe even more so considering his added experience. He’s elite in dry, rain, whatever condition. Until this year he’s never had a car with a “pace advantage” over the whole field so that doesn’t really make sense. If anything he’s always been the one to put his car in positions higher than they should be.

Let’s be real. Max jumped into F1 straight out of a year of F3 at 17. I’m pretty sure he had the best karting career in European karting history. His talent level is all time great. He just needed the car, now he has to add the experience and mental fortitude like all young challengers.

 

[KillerB88]

Brazil 2016?

Stop trying to play that man short. He’s 23 with 50 podiums. He has Lewis’s full respect for a reason.

I think he is just as talented as Alonso and Lewis were at the same age, maybe even more so considering his added experience. He’s elite in dry, rain, whatever condition. Until this year he’s never had a car with a “pace advantage” over the whole field so that doesn’t really make sense. If anything he’s always been the one to put his car in positions higher than they should be.

Let’s be real. Max jumped into F1 straight out of a year of F3 at 17. I’m pretty sure he had the best karting career in European karting history. His talent level is all time great. He just needed the car, now he has to add the experience and mental fortitude like all young challengers.

His age is irrelevant. He’s a seven year vet, and he’s had the 2/3 best car for several years now. He’s been scavenging podiums and wins when Merc or Ferrari have come up short. Even last year he was racing in no man’s land. Slower than the Mercs but faster than the rest of the field. And I asked the question about his classic drives and qualifying sessions and the only reference point you had was Brazil 2016– a race from five seasons ago where he placed third. No one is knocking him, he’s a Vettel tier driver. That’s not an insult. He’s a fast, aggressive driver in a capable car and that makes him seem like more than he is. And I’m I’m not impressed by a bunch of no name karting titles. Lewis was actually winning and dominating in the open wheel junior formulas. Kimi’s entrance into F1 was very much like Max’s. Came in young with vastly less experience than the rest of the grid. He had a good run in the McLaren, picked up a lucky title with Ferrari due to McLaren’s poor decision making and faded out.

 

[KillerB88]

@DIO Brando And just to expound on what I meant by “pace advantage”, I’m talking about wins and podiums where his on track rivals have some sort of handicap keeping their car from performing at peak level. It doesn’t mean he literally has to have the fastest car. It’s why I don’t rate his wheel to wheel racing very highly. Anyone can throw their car into corners and dare the other person to not die. That’s not racing. There’s no nuance to it. Anyone can play chicken. We’ll likely never see Max put on a performance like what we saw with Lewis and Nico at Bahrain in 2014. That was real wheel to wheel racing at an extremely high level. All of Max’s on track battles where his car isn’t decisively faster are scrappy and full of questionable tactics. Even this past weekend he was weaving into braking zones and double moving— but no one said anything. Lewis had to back out twice before the Copse corner move because of it. Look at Turkey last year, or his on track battles with Charles in 2019, or his wheel to wheel battles in 2018. I’m not hating on Max— it’s not like I’m making this stuff up. I don’t know if you have an F1TV subscription, but these races are available to go back and watch and there are plenty of race summaries detailing what happened. It’s not like this is a subjective thing.

 

[MoneyTron]

@DIO Brando And just to expound on what I meant by “pace advantage”, I’m talking about wins and podiums where his on track rivals have some sort of handicap keeping their car from performing at peak level. It doesn’t mean he literally has to have the fastest car. It’s why I don’t rate his wheel to wheel racing very highly. Anyone can throw their car into corners and dare the other person to not die. That’s not racing. There’s no nuance to it. Anyone can play chicken. We’ll likely never see Max put on a performance like what we saw with Lewis and Nico at Bahrain in 2014. That was real wheel to wheel racing at an extremely high level. All of Max’s on track battles where his car isn’t decisively faster are scrappy and full of questionable tactics. Even this past weekend he was weaving into braking zones and double moving— but no one said anything. Lewis had to back out twice before the Copse corner move because of it. Look at Turkey last year, or his on track battles with Charles in 2019, or his wheel to wheel battles in 2018. I’m not hating on Max— it’s not like I’m making this stuff up. I don’t know if you have an F1TV subscription, but these races are available to go back and watch and there are plenty of race summaries detailing what happened. It’s not like this is a subjective thing.

Yes, I do have F1 TV and I've watched all of these drivers plenty. My point doesn't change. I think Max is a top 2 driver on the grid and a generational talent. I do think he's better than Vettel and will eventually be on the same tier as Alonso at the very least. Vettel is far more prone to mistakes than Max is and I don't think has the same level of adaptability either.

His wheel to wheel style is not the same as Lewis' so expecting him to play the way you want doesn't mean his skill is any less.

We'll agree to disagree but I see no weaknesses in his skills as a driver. The only thing that is going to stop him is what's between his ears. He's still my favorite to win the championship this year.

 

[MoneyTron]

His age is irrelevant. He’s a seven year vet, and he’s had the 2/3 best car for several years now. He’s been scavenging podiums and wins when Merc or Ferrari have come up short. Even last year he was racing in no man’s land. Slower than the Mercs but faster than the rest of the field. And I asked the question about his classic drives and qualifying sessions and the only reference point you had was Brazil 2016– a race from five seasons ago where he placed third. No one is knocking him, he’s a Vettel tier driver. That’s not an insult.
.

I made one example because I'm not going to sit here and list them out. You said he had none. That's wrong.

He’s a fast, aggressive driver in a capable car and that makes him seem like more than he is.

Yeah, that sounds like the same thing people have said about Lewis since he stepped foot in F1. Yall don't even listen to yourselves sometimes.

 

[jj23]

Yeah, that sounds like the same thing people say about Lewis. Yall don't even listen to yourselves sometimes.

Never questioned his talent. Top three in the grid and a generational talent.

Always questioned his privilege, and after this weekend it's fukk him.

 

[MoneyTron]

Never questioned his talent. Top three in the grid and a generational talent.

Always questioned his privilege, and after this weekend it's fukk him.

You haven't, others have. When it comes to evaluating drivers, the other shyt I don't care about. That's off the track.

 

[jj23]

You haven't, others have. When it comes to evaluating drivers, the other shyt I don't care about. That's off the track.

I get your point, but Max's privilege shows in his driving. It's about time he got checked for it.

But yes, he is still the favourite to win the title unless Merc start getting rain or overcast races.

 

[MoneyTron]

I get your point, but Max's privilege shows in his driving. It's about time he got checked for it.

But yes, he is still the favourite to win the title unless Merc start getting rain or overcast races.

I don't think privilege has anything to do with it. Max is an ultra aggressive driver. No more, no less. Back out or crash. That's his MO. He picked a battle with the wrong one this time.

Will Max change his behavior because of it? Remains to be seen. That's part of his maturation process as a driver. Could've saved himself at least 18 points last Sunday.

 

[Lootha VanDraws]

I know it won't happen, and probably isn't the best way to move into the new era, but I feel like Merc should just roll the dice and develop W12 further and close out the turbo-hybrid era with complete dominance. I understand they want to give themselves the best chance with the new regs starting next year, but there is no guarantee that conservatism this year will lead to victory next year.

I'll also just say it outright (forgive me for the LH44 fan perspective), I feel like they owe it to Lewis to give him the best car possible to win his 8th WDC THIS YEAR. For Mercedes as a team it may not be now or never, but as a driver nearing the end of his career, it is almost certainly now for never for Lewis.

 

[Obreh Winfrey]

Yeah, that sounds like the same thing people have said about Lewis since he stepped foot in F1. Yall don't even listen to yourselves sometimes.

Were his results in the Toro Rosso that good, relative to the car? Genuine question because I don't know. Regardless, Red Bull has been a top 3 team since he got in, so solid results are to be expected. And people are going to make arguments against everything Lewis does and that's an easy refrain they like to use to try and dispell his results.

 

[jj23]

I don't think privilege has anything to do with it. Max is an ultra aggressive driver. No more, no less. Back out or crash. That's his MO. He picked a battle with the wrong one this time.

Will Max change his behavior because of it? Remains to be seen. That's part of his maturation process as a driver. Could've saved himself at least 18 points last Sunday.

He won't change. He had a chance to learn this lesson before, minus the hard crash. Brazil 2018.
You see you just look at the driving. There's a psychology that comes with it. When was the last time Red Bull told Verstappen he was wrong for anything?

He is surrounded by enablers. His talent has brought him this far but eventually life will take him to a place where he has to face the truth and not flattery and how he handles THAT will influence my view of him as a driver.

Lewis had Lauda, and despite Lewis' talent he is also black. The coddling only extended so far, and Lewis learned hard lessons especially when Nico beat him.

It remains to be seen if Max will ever learn those lessons.

 

[jj23]

I know it won't happen, and probably isn't the best way to move into the new era, but I feel like Merc should just roll the dice and develop W12 further and close out the turbo-hybrid era with complete dominance. I understand they want to give themselves the best chance with the new regs starting next year, but there is no guarantee that conservatism this year will lead to victory next year.

I'll also just say it outright (forgive me for the LH44 fan perspective), I feel like they owe it to Lewis to give him the best car possible to win his 8th WDC THIS YEAR. For Mercedes as a team it may not be now or never, but as a driver nearing the end of his career, it is almost certainly now for never for Lewis.

Just saw an article today with James Allison saying that was the last big upgrade. Everything from here are just tweaks.

Sigh