Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - We are SO back, the Premier League returns!

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

Plenty of hot takes but when the heat decreases, people realize that Southgate is a competent enough coach. Not top tier but not as bad as people think. His real weakness is that he thinks safety first, similar to Deschamps.

And you might not like it but this gives results in major tourneys. Spain won the WC scoring an average of 1 goal per match. Portugal won their Euro by drawing everything but the final. France won the WC by relying on counters because we had MBappé. Sometimes being pragmatic is a good solution.

He messed up the final, that's true but I would put that fail on the pressure and inexperience rather than incompetency and now he can still improve. Man already had a WC semi and a Euro final to his name. If he can learn how to let go and go for broke then England will be a problem for years to come.

I will always be rooting against them obviously but that doesnt prevent me from seeing the quality of the squad.

Fair points. I've always been envious of the talent France is able to produce so consistently. Y'all have 2 World Cups and 2 European Championships for a reason. How both countries see football is different. France's sophistication of the game was always made fun of and seen as "soft" by Brits who see 'real football' as hard-tackling, toughing through injuries and being able to run at full force the whole 90 minutes. Thankfully, through the consistent failure of the national team, English people are realizing how primative those 'values' were and it's not wonder the other European footballing countries laughed at England for years.

England only recently (and I'm saying this based on success our U21, U18 teams had in youth internationals) has been able to move past that archaic mindset and actually produce near the same level of talent at the youth level, but it often goes to waste come the transition into the English league which English clubs tend to prioritize profits (higher positions in the league) over football development and identity (i.e making sure English managers are hired, English players get playing time etc.)

I feel that's the biggest difference between us and France, Italy, Germany, Spain etc. The clubs in their leagues outside the top 2 biggest ones can't compete financially with English clubs (English league tv deals always negotiated in the billions of I'm not mistaken) and typically have their best players bought out every years by the top English clubs, so they're always developing players and preparing 5 so years ahead. Also their football associations historically have worked with clubs in regards to youth development whereas England has only recently really started copying their model.

Sterling has a terrible penalty record.
Raheem Sterling - Penalty goals

He scored 2/5 penalties in his entire career. You wouldnt want him to take one, let's be real. Sterling is good at getting pens not taking them.

I say this because Raheem is the more senior player and was in rhythm over Jadon who barely got a good run about.

 

[null]

 

[TobiOT]

Probably helped make sure these scumbags kids were fed.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Fair points. I've always been envious of the talent France is able to produce so consistently. Y'all have 2 World Cups and 2 European Championships for a reason. How both countries see football is different. France's sophistication of the game was always made fun of and seen as "soft" by Brits who see 'real football' as hard-tackling, toughing through injuries and being able to run at full force the whole 90 minutes. Thankfully, through the consistent failure of the national team, English people are realizing how primative those 'values' were and it's not wonder the other European footballing countries laughed at England for years.

England only recently (and I'm saying this based on success our U21, U18 teams had in youth internationals) has been able to move past that archaic mindset and actually produce near the same level of talent at the youth level, but it often goes to waste come the transition into the English league which English clubs tend to prioritize profits (higher positions in the league) over football development and identity (i.e making sure English managers are hired, English players get playing time etc.)

I feel that's the biggest difference between us and France, Italy, Germany, Spain etc. The clubs in their leagues outside the top 2 biggest ones can't compete financially with English clubs (English league tv deals always negotiated in the billions of I'm not mistaken) and typically have their best players bought out every years by the top English clubs, so they're always developing players and preparing 5 so years ahead. Also their football associations historically have worked with clubs in regards to youth development whereas England has only recently really started copying their model.



I say this because Raheem is the more senior player and was in rhythm over Jadon who barely got a good run about.

This has been going on for decades and decades. Being a forward thinking English/British person is against the rules unless you come from a certain background. Its the old establishment hierarchy (which is at the heart of most of England/Britain ills over the centuries) thats kept English football from flourishing. You wouldnt know that English coaches played a big part in the Total Football concept. Do you know who introduced a high-pressing line prioritising team over individuals and not being afraid to using the academy players to Barca a English coach.

Venables and Hoddle were talking about controlling possession back in the 90's. Hoddle wanted Wenger to be technical director prior to him taking the Arsenal job. The need to control Possession was bought up all the way back in the late 50's and 60's which was totally ignored. The worst crime of all was coaches trying to recreate what Al Ramsey did for decades and decades but even that failed for him.

 

[Gilver]

Get back to carrington Marcus and Jadon, Ole will look after you.

 

[Koba St]

My thoughts on euro 2000:

I like Gareth Southgate as a man but as a manager he needs to go. His substitutions made no sense. I’m a Chelsea fan but mason mount shouldn’t have started ahead of Grealish or even Henderson. As long he’s in charge can’t see this team beating any of the worlds top tier teams.

England were extremely lucky throughout the tournament regarding their opponents. Apart from a poor Germany all the teams they faced were 3rd tier. Italy on the other hand faced top teams on their way to the final and therefore deserved the win.

It was a great tournament overall and I really enjoyed it. Made even better by England losing

#Southgateout

 

[MikelArteta]

Rants went in today

 

[MikelArteta]

Probably helped make sure these scumbags kids were fed.

should have let them chavs starve

 

[THEREALBRAND]

I love Saul, but I’d take this swap in a heartbeat. Griezmann is still a top shelf goal scorer and I have zero confidence in João Félix to ever raise his game to an elite level.

 

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

This has been going on for decades and decades. Being a forward thinking English/British person is against the rules unless you come from a certain background. Its the old establishment hierarchy (which is at the heart of most of England/Britain ills over the centuries) thats kept English football from flourishing. You wouldnt know that English coaches played a big part in the Total Football concept. Do you know who introduced a high-pressing line prioritising team over individuals and not being afraid to using the academy players to Barca a English coach.

Venables and Hoddle were talking about controlling possession back in the 90's. Hoddle wanted Wenger to be technical director prior to him taking the Arsenal job. The need to control Possession was bought up all the way back in the late 50's and 60's which was totally ignored. The worst crime of all was coaches trying to recreate what Al Ramsey did for decades and decades but even that failed for him.

In all honesty, we should've kept building on what Hoddle and Venables established far as footballing identity. But we didn't, and felt we just needed a 'proven' manager (enter Eriksson, who wasn't the worst, to be fair) because they thought we had a budding 'golden generation', when ironically I only used to hear our media use that term.

I don't doubt that English football minds are capable of innovation and forward progressive football, but it's simply not valued in English footballing culture, at least not really before Wenger, least for my generation and even still, Arsenal teams were known for playing great football, but being soft and weak-willed. Still are to this day except the good football isn't a guarantee anymore

It's understandable English football fans think so being that they saw Sir Alex Ferguson teams (that would look more similar to traditional great English sides 'grit, power, pace!') consistently go head-to-head and beat Arsenal sides who, as I've mentioned before looked like a different kind of champion when they did find success

 

[EA]

Apparently Sancho has never taken a competitive penalty before. Or so I have read.

You think he was not a bad choice?

You could see he was very nervous when he was waiting to come on.

I'm pretty sure Sancho has taken penalties for Dortmund before. He was extremely nervous though but I think that's Southgate's fault for not bringing him and Rashford on sooner for them to get involved in the match before extra time was over. I think the first time either of them touched the ball was when they took their penalties. It might not sound like a big deal but even making a couple passes or getting a couple tackles in can calm the nerves.

Saka was picked to take the pen because the training data said he was one of the 5 best takers. Waistcoat makes his decisions based off data and never on feel or what he sees. He like the majority of English/British/Trained in Britain coaches arent proactive enough with subs or tactical changes and think making first sub in the 75th min to go at tired legs is going to work for the last 15 mins. The only kinda feel moments were starting Saka vs Czech and Germany and that was only because Mount was isolating and starting Sancho vs Ukraine. Everything else is data driven.

This is my issue with data being the primary driver for decision making in football because it doesn't factor in the intangibles. Personally, I think someone should have pulled rank over Saka and taken that because that certainly wasn't the occasion for him to be taking his first penalty.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Yeah, TLR are in a frenzy over this.

But apart from the monkey emojis from fake accounts on Saka's IG and that cac Andrew Bone on twitter, I haven't seen anything concrete.

I think there is a perverse incentive from people on social media and media outlets to play up the anon trolls for clicks/RTs. Ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy.

Even the Daily Mail cover is a sympathetic one for Saka. What are we even talking about at this point?

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

I'm pretty sure Sancho has taken penalties for Dortmund before. He was extremely nervous though but I think that's Southgate's fault for not bringing him and Rashford on sooner for them to get involved in the match before extra time was over. I think the first time either of them touched the ball was when they took their penalties. It might not sound like a big deal but even making a couple passes or getting a couple tackles in can calm the nerves.



This is my issue with data being the primary driver for decision making in football because it doesn't factor in the intangibles. Personally, I think someone should have pulled rank over Saka and taken that because that certainly wasn't the occasion for him to be taking his first penalty.

It's brilliant for game planning but if you cannot adjust to what your eyes are showing you in real time then the data becomes pointless. Which was the case in point yesterday

England/Britain being defensively cautious in sport just doesn't work. Majority of the countries best/greatest sportspersons/teams have been aggressive dominant imposing their will front foot performers. You never get that with the feel of the football team tho everything is in first gear riding on the clutch. As long as you work hard and show effort and some fighting spirit that's good enough. And generally that works for England. You hardly see England take a hammering in the scoreline when they lose in football. Last one I can think of is vs Germany in 2010.

 

[Koba St]

 

[Koba St]