The Official Debunking Hebrew Israelites Thread

Czar

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@Czar YOU debunk them. Stop posting bullshyt and acting like you're 'debunking' anything.

How ironic.

I'm simply posting videos that refute your videos wholeheartedly and then some.

And umm....

The irony of the bolded. :dead:

And here go that old 1 West teaching of "You know so-called white people are Esau, cause they like their meat rare, RED, just like he did."

Which is really the most debunkable argument concerning Esau.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= GrT5e80UT_0
(Combine to watch)

^Skip to 6:40 & watch til the end.

If you refuse to watch the video... Genesis 25:34 says he was given a Pottage of Lentils.

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/25-34.htm
^OG Hebrew text.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5742.htm


http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5138.htm



In Hebrews 12:16, the word translated as meat in the KJV is in fact MEAL in greek.

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/hebrews/12-16.htm
^OG Greek text

http://biblehub.com/greek/1035.htm


And is overwhelming translated as either meal or food in the majority of translations.




But you trust the KJV huh?

Song of Solomon 5:10
King James Bible
My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.


:beli:

You should try using the arguments for Genesis 27:11 or 2 Esdras 6:9 next so I can debunk those too @Disciple of the Projects

Someone musta missed this.



As for gentles.... Hmmmmm....


Joshua 8:32-35
"There, in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua wrote on stones a copy of the law of Moses. All the Israelites, with their elders, officials and judges, were standing on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the Lord, facing the Levitical priests who carried it. Both the foreigners living among them and the native-born were there. Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the Lord had formerly commanded when he gave instructions to bless the people of Israel.
Afterward, Joshua read all the words of the law—the blessings and the curses—just as it is written in the Book of the Law. There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded that Joshua did not read to the whole assembly of Israel. including the women and children, and the foreigners who lived among them.

Exodus 12:37-38
And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

Leviticus 19:34
"But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."

Ezekiel 47:22-23
It shall be that you will divide it by lot as an inheritance for yourselves, and for the strangers who dwell among you and who bear children among you. They shall be to you as native-born among the children of Israel; they shall have an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall be that in whatever tribe the stranger dwells, there you shall give him his inheritance,” says the Lord God.

Numbers 15:29
One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you."

Esther 8:15-17
"And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad."The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour.

And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/complete.ii.xiv.ix.html
Hyrcanus took also Dora and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country; if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the land of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and of the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time this therefore befell them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.

Acts 2:5-10

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans?And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes. Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

Need more examples than that? Or do you prefer I breakdown each of those word for word in their original languages to prove a point?
 
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Czar

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But let's not stop there @LionofJudah more on Esau...

Czar said:
Wrong

The hebrew word alluph was translated as hegemon in the septuagint
Czar said:
Both Alluph and Hegemon were used to reference Israelites AND Edomites in the LXX and Tanakh.


http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/search.php?mode=fetch&text=LXX&range=Jer48:13&lemma=ἡγεμών&i=on
http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/search.php?mode=fetch&text=LXX&range=Jer48:16&lemma=ἡγεμών&i=on


http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/search.php?mode=fetch&text=LXX&range=Ps54:14&lemma=ἡγεμών&i=on
http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/search.php?mode=fetch&text=LXX&range=Ez23:23&lemma=ἡγεμών&i=on
http://biblesuite.com/greek/strongs_2233.htm

And guess what?

Dux was also used for the Israelites in the Vulgate.

http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=dux&b=lvb

So i guess that makes everyone an Edomite according to your silly logic.

Learn how to research stuff.

LionofJudah said:
False. People like you who like to pervert the scripture try to say 1 Samuel 16:12, Songs 5:10 & Lamentations say 'red', when the word used is clearly the word 'ruddy'.

1 Samuel 16:12
And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.

Song of Solomon 5:10
My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.

Lamentations 4:7
Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:

Esau is described as 'red'.

Genesis 25:25
And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

Although the same Strong's H132 - 'admoniy is used to describe Esau as red (excluding Song of Soloman and Lamentations), King David is ONLY described as 'ruddy' throughout the scriptures using that same 132. The word ruddy doesn't ONLY mean red, and since you claim to know Hebrew, you also know that one word can have MANY meanings, although there is one that is usually generally accepted as the MAIN meaning. The word ruddy only means that he was attractive, and easy on the eyes, not that he was 'red' the way Esau is described. For more proof of this, people can watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= xJ5yMzpwEH4

Also, the word 'ruddy' was changed to also mean red so these devil Edomites could hide who they are. Regarding Esau and his wives, you're off on that also. A white male and a Black female can have a white child. One look at Robin Thicke's son with Paula Patton proves this. And if this wasn't the case, you would have to explain how whites came about because everyone on the Earth in the beginning was BLACK. Science proves this.

Robin-and-Julian-Thicke-Labor-Day.jpg



Red and ruddy are the same thing bruh.

http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/132.htm

red, ruddy

Or (fully) admowniy {ad-mo-nee'}; from 'adam; reddish (of the hair or the complexion) -- red, ruddy.

http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/119.htm

adom: to be red
Short Definition: red


Both Esau AND David are called Admoniy.

Facts >>>>> Speculation.



Lol you thought you were slick leaving out the rest of Obadiah.

Obadiah 1:19-21

People from the Negev will occupy
the mountains of Esau,
and people from the foothills will possess
the land of the Philistines.
They will occupy the fields of Ephraim and Samaria,
and Benjamin will possess Gilead.
This company of Israelite exiles who are in Canaan
will possess the land as far as Zarephath;
the exiles from Jerusalem who are in Sepharad
will possess the towns of the Negev.
Deliverers will go up on Mount Zion
to govern the mountains of Esau.
And the kingdom will be the Lord’s.


Which is what The Hasmonian Dynasty accomplished when it took the land of Idumea/Edom and added it into the Kingdom of Judea.

Now let's read Malachi 1:3-5 in a proper translation that isn't the erroneous and utterly laughable KJV.

1 A prophecy: The word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi.2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. “But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’ “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.” 4 Edom may say, “Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.” But this is what the Lord Almighty says: “They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the Lord.

This was also fufilled when Herod the Great overthrew the Hasmonian Dynasty with the help of Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(37_BC)

The Idumeans became the ruling class in Judea... until they were completely wiped out during the Judeo-Roman wars.
 
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Czar

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Remember this post?@LionofJudah

lol Fair enough.

I haven't searched through this thread, but I assume you used these BHI talking points.

1. Esau's descendants are refered to as dukes in the KJV. Only Europeans call themselves dukes. Europeans=edomites.

2. Esau is called red (or ruddy in the KJV), which means he was so white that the blood could be seen through his skin

3. You quoted from the book of Obadiah and 2nd Esdras to prove the white people in this country are the Edomites.

Let's start with point 1.

The Hebrew word alluph, which appears in Genesis 36, Exodus 15:15 & 1 Chronicles 1:51-54 means chief or leader. The Septuagint (created by the jews) translated alluph as hegemon, which also means chief or leader. The Vetus Latina & Vulgate used the word dux, which again means leader. Dux was also used for commanders who didn't have an official rank in the Roman Empire, such as Germans and Celtics. The word dux was later incorporated into Old English, Spanish, Portuguese, French as a title of nobility. Hence why the Douay–Rheims and KJV used the word duke in their translation. This was later rectified in future bible translations using the words chief or leader. Now ask yourself this, how could the Hebrews or Edomites use the word "duke" if it didn't exist in their languages?

Point 2 is easy. If Esau was apparently so white that he was called red (Admoniy), then one can easily assume Jacob was also red, seeing as they were twins (Genesis 25:24). If your excuse is they were fraternal twins, 1 Samuel 16:12, Songs 5.10 & Lamentations 4:7 contradict you. In those verses David, Solomon and the Israelites are all called Admoniy & Adom. Esau also had 6 black wives (Genesis 26:34; 28:9; 36:2-3) 4 of whom produced children for him. If he was supposedly white, his descendants sure weren't.

Point 3 is also easily debunked. To understand what happened to the Edomites you have to understand history and scripture. Obadiah predicted that Edom would be destroyed and their land would be taken. The Babylonians and Nabatean Kingdom were the first to conquer Edom. The Greeks followed suit and hellenized Edom, hence their name changing to Idumeans & their land to Idumea. the Hasmonean dynasty of Judea conquered the land and judaized the Idumeans, meaning they forcefully made them converts. In fact, the last kings of Judea were all pretty much Idumeans/Edomites converts. These same men also married and had children with Judean women. King Herod even renovated the 2nd temple, which came to be called King Herod's temple. Those same Idumeans were completely destroyed during the 70 year Judean-Roman wars. Their land is currently being held by the nation of Jordan, who are the descendants of the Hashemite...

By contrast, Japheth, brother of Shem, is called the father of Europe. Just look at his line. The Celtic tribes came from Gomer. Germany came from Ashkenaz. The Greeks and Romans came from Javan, The Medes came from Madai and so on.

Google it if you don't believe me.

In conclusion, Esau didn't father a single white nation.

I'm just noticed now that I never did touch in 2 Esdras

I'ma let ole boy here explain better than I can.

 

LionofJudah

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Where's the 'debunking'? All I see is copy and paste. Also, you're still running from the debate because you're an Edomite and the far from being Black.
 

Czar

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I'll post some more later for you to 'debunk.'

Cool. I'll C&P all my old replies for them, since they're gonna contain the same old arguments you always make.

You know, the ones that continually get debunked with the same factual information? The facts YOU nor THEY can seem to refute.


Those were debunked already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= UrY2PPL_DRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= eNkUOVQkOCE

^Debunks the claim that Rome=Edom, or Romans=Edomites.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= fhKluyuftaQ

^Debunks the whole Dukes/Edom theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= 2EL8QJpirl8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= jI-HpH6ZH8M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= R2lU1_9-tIk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= eO4D4eY4OW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= d4jv3LxyiD4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= 7WOPA9ZsDlc

^Explains Obadiah the correct way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= TPc2ujEy6bY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= ksegaVARMwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= kkQVAiU1lAA

^Explains in depth who actually built the monuments of Petra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= VwyBycNPxno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= ddM9aonZl64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= riNGYClMm-Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= EXIVZvnZO5M

^Proves Edom/Edomites no longer exists.

(Combine each link to watch)

But let's start here.

All these videos contain rock solid proof. If you feel otherwise, disprove what is being said.
 
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Czar

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I didn't even watch those videos and already know them brothers were talking ignorance and those white people responded back with ignorance.

Matthew 12:36

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ecclesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man on earth who does good
And does not sin.

Romans 3:9
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Can't forget...

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Edit: I watched the vid with the Muslims. That one is way too easy to pick apart. I've already dealt with the issue of who is Israel by posting a mountain of proof that it had more to do with covenant than bloodline. Especially since the Gentile foreigners who were grafted into Israel were counted as one with the native-born.

But let's deal with so-called reincarnation, which most UPKers love to justify.




Far as those videos that mention white supremacy... it is an evil that will be dealt with emphatically and accordingly by the Most High. He hates wickedness regardless of who's committing it. Look no further than the Israelites in scripture for proof of that.
 
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MostReal

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@Czar you've got to learn how to argue better, make the post short so people can consume the information. Ain't nobody going to take your post serious with all those videos in one post...plus its slowing the page down from loading :what:

Czar is saying that I didn't school him about ruddy but he believed the entire time that the OG Hebrews were white/black & mixed with something else. By American standards today they were black folks point blank. The mixing of the multitude was the different tribes/cultures they came from.

I would like Czar to explain how he hates the supposedly White Supremacy doctrine of Japheth, Shem, and Ham but he still supports that Japheth was white, Shem was mixed, and Ham was black when the bible doesn't state any of that. Also, how can Shem's people be 'mixed' and lived in the same area as when Cush the son of Ham...had Nimrod that was King of Babylon (Iraq). So Nimrod is black and king over all these mixed people? What that passage shows is that all those people were black back in those times with very if any racial mixing. The mixing refers to tribes not races. Moses even married a Kush woman.

The racial Mixing came from Japheth and his descendants after the flood who went North mixing with Neanderthals that sprung all these other races on the earth. This very day white people have the most Neanderthal DNA in them. Neanderthal is not present day human dna. These are scientific facts. Nimrod and his people also mixed as well later because they were so 'full of sin' that they did any and everything. When the Good Angels came down 'in human form' to talk to Lot, those folks in Sodom wanted to have sex with them then as well. Lot had to barricade the door & the Good Angels had to blind them to keep them out.

God sent the flood with Noah to get rid of the Seed/Angel's children that were creating war and destruction on the Earth. This time period is brought up again in the New Testament as a reason why Jesus will come back and save his flock...which now is determined by your belief....but the devil still has a role to play out.
 

LionofJudah

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negged for @'ing me, you fairy tale slinging, bible thumbing, bothering people going to work with a bullhorn, gladiator dressing while pooling money together for lunch ass fakkit

You sad that your white master that you've been dikkriding is getting exposed????
 

Czar

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@Czar you've got to learn how to argue better, make the post short so people can consume the information. Ain't nobody going to take your post serious with all those videos in one post...plus its slowing the page down from loading :what:


Your bias towards me is amazing. I know you're not stupid and seen @LionofJudah spamming the last two pages with a million videos.


Czar is saying that I didn't school him about ruddy but he believed the entire time that the OG Hebrews were white/black & mixed with something else. By American standards today they were black folks point blank. The mixing of the multitude was the different tribes/cultures they came from.

:snoop:Yet another straw man argument.

Especially since I've mentioned being mixed also applies to the mixing of multitudes from a tribal perspective. For example, once a foreigner joined with Israel, he and his descendants became one with the native-born Israelites. Just as a foreigner who joined with Egypt and embraced their culture became Egyptian. Or are you forgetting the Pharaohs of Nubian descent?

Then again, you're the same dude who claimed the Dravidians, who are mega dark, weren't black people cause they don't have woolly hair. Nevermind the fact that there were EGYPTIANS who didn't have woolly hair either. Yet we both agree they were black.


Talking about white supremacy, yet you wanna use "American standards" to define an ancient world:mjlol:




I would like Czar to explain how he hates the supposedly White Supremacy doctrine of Japheth, Shem, and Ham but he still supports that Japheth was white, Shem was mixed, and Ham was black when the bible doesn't state any of that. Also, how can Shem's people be 'mixed' and lived in the same area as when Cush the son of Ham...had Nimrod that was King of Babylon (Iraq). So Nimrod is black and king over all these mixed people? What that passage shows is that all those people were black back in those times with very if any racial mixing. The mixing refers to tribes not races. Moses even married a Kush woman.

Where do you get Japheth, Shem and Ham being a white supremacy doctrine? Like, how does one even come to such an asinine conclusion breh? If anything, you the one creating neurotic arguments centered around eurocentic theories.

Was Ham born in Africa, Japheth in Europe and Shem in Western Asia? Or did Ham's descendants MIGRATE between Mesopotamia and Africa, Japheth's descendants MIGRATE to the north and the Mediterranean, and Shem's descendants MIGRATE all across Mesopotamia? Or was Canaan not originally a HAMITIC land.

And black kings ONLY ruled over other black people? Weren't the Moors once rulers of the Iberian Peninsula and Southern Italy?

Wasn't Timothy the son of a Greek father and Hebrew mother? (Acts 16:1-3) And didn't Drusilla marry Felix, a Roman procurator? (Acts 24:24)

So are you saying the Greeks (Javan) and Romans (Kittim) were black as well?



The racial Mixing came from Japheth and his descendants after the flood who went North mixing with Neanderthals that sprung all these other races on the earth. This very day white people have the most Neanderthal DNA in them. Neanderthal is not present day human dna. These are scientific facts. Nimrod and his people also mixed as well later because they were so 'full of sin' that they did any and everything. When the Good Angels came down 'in human form' to talk to Lot, those folks in Sodom wanted to have sex with them then as well. Lot had to barricade the door & the Good Angels had to blind them to keep them out.

God sent the flood with Noah to get rid of the Seed/Angel's children that were creating war and destruction on the Earth. This time period is brought up again in the New Testament as a reason why Jesus will come back and save his flock...which now is determined by your belief....but the devil still has a role to play out.


Breh... let's use critical thinking to refute your argument, especially since you wanna cherry pick science to fit your theory, yet reject it when it contradicts you.

You mentioned Neanderthal DNA, which means if there were Neanderthals there was also Homo habilis, ergaster and erectus.

According to science, habilis, ergaster and erectus are the 1st, 2nd and 3rd evolutionary transitions in the Homo genus. Neanderthals are 5th, right before Homo Sapians. In the theory of evolution, Black people are the least evolved species in the Human family and Whites the most evolved.

Hmmm, I wonder who coulda created such a racist theory :patrice:


Even worse, you're actually using it by try and create a correlation that doesn't exist


And while everything you said about Lot and the good angels, the Nephalim, Noah and the flood is scriptural... I still see you subtly trying to sneak in 1 Enoch, which is NOT scriptural, to try and piece things together.

Both Enochs (1 & 2) are false books. This is why only two groups (Ethiopic and Slavonic churches) use them in their bibles. Just the fact that 1 Enoch claims Lamech had a son who was white with rosy cheeks who "looked like the angels", along with claiming a so called angel named Phanuel is in charge of Repentance and Eternal life should be enough to raise red flags for you. Especially since neither of those things is mentioned anywhere else in actual scripture.

But you love to argue moot points, so tell me when you're ready to come back with more conjecture and straw man arguments so we can wash, rinse, repeat.
 
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Demon

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You sad that your white master that you've been dikkriding is getting exposed????

Did you scrape up $1.50 for your chicken gizzards today, since you spent everything you had on gladiator gear? Do ya'll nikkas have shifts? :dwillhuh: Like when someone gets tired of yelling, does he tell someone to take over for awhile? :ohhh:Do you get lunch breaks like a real job? :gladbron:
 
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