Essential The Official Comic Book Discussion Thread [Support @Neuromancer’s book!]

[Bud Bundy]

First off...Cap wasn't cool with Wanda walking away so free. They all got together to try to kill Wanda in House of M #1 . That's how this ENTIRE mess started. The X-men and the Avengers thought they could play gods with a god and it fukked everything up. There were a few screws along the way with World War Hulk and the Dark Reign nonsense after Captain America went down with Sentry taking centerstage. But they brought this on themselves by trying to control Wanda even though they knew they didn't have the power to fight her straight up. Quicksilver is really the one behind most of the bullshyt but no one gets on his case about it except Luna and Magneto.

I'm still wondering how Havok's run as leader of the Dark Beast Brotherhood in 1997 just got swept under a rug

lol damn i forgot about that.

did he do that from his own free will or was he brainwashed?

I can not remember. He might have been undercover though.

 

[Bud Bundy]

Havok actually was working for the Government and he wasn't protecting mutants, he was protecting humans from Mutants. He was pretty much playing the same role he's playing now in Uncanny Avengers.

Cyclops and his X-Factor had to disguise themselves because they were already publicly known as X-Men and they used the pretense as a means of getting information about things that would be a threat.


The Best Cyclops stuff is everything before Jim Lee and everything after the Search for Cyclops storyline. He had his moments here and there between those periods, but like I said they turned him into an authority figure for others to rebel against.


Joss Whedon and Grant Morrison deserve the most credit for getting Cyclops out of that bullshyt.

X-Factor was doing the exact same thing the x-men were doing only the government was paying them. And he did it at the request of cyclops. They would help mutants but would also stop them from killing humans if it that became a problem. Some people see Havok as Cyclops light but some cleaver writers have used that to let the character grow and show how he tries to distinguish himself from his big brother. Like working with the government when he has to bridge the gap between humans and mutants.

It makes sense that cap would use him as leader of Uncanny Avengers because of his long history or working with the government. What does not make sense is cap staying on the team and not being the leader. That is conflict out the ass. And I think red skull is messing with his mind that is why he is hostile to mutants and wolverine all of a sudden.

 

[23Barrettcity]

This would all be within reason....Except they had Bobby and Hank turn on Scott too. That shyt flat out doesn't make sense given the circumstances. Hank in particular being so upset about it is comes across as stupid considering some of the things he's done in the past (and recently).

The X-Men definitely have cliques within them and they had Cyclops clique completely turn on him and never gave a good enough reason as to why.

That's why I dig Bendis X-Books so much, because he seems to be the only writer who's willing to point out that bullshyt.

The thing about it is he hasn't done anything as bad ( Killing Xavier not withstanding ) as hank and bobby make it out to be . They show him on tv saving mutants from persecution and saying stand up for themselves yet bobby whining that he's making them look bad . Cap in all new xmen was being ridiculous with ordering havok around and then trying to boss around the xkids

 

[23Barrettcity]

X-Factor was doing the exact same thing the x-men were doing only the government was paying them. And he did it at the request of cyclops. They would help mutants but would also stop them from killing humans if it that became a problem. Some people see Havok as Cyclops light but some cleaver writers have used that to let the character grow and show how he tries to distinguish himself from his big brother. Like working with the government when he has to bridge the gap between humans and mutants.

It makes sense that cap would use him as leader of Uncanny Avengers because of his long history or working with the government. What does not make sense is cap staying on the team and not being the leader. That is conflict out the ass. And I think red skull is messing with his mind that is why he is hostile to mutants and wolverine all of a sudden.

Yeah something is up with him . It's like the ultimate captain America took his spot

 

[TNC]

Man one reason I love cyclops as a character because he has growth. Actually X-men in general, there characters actually grow and change in personality.


Its funny trying to explain it to old comic fan's it just turns into "He would never do that" "thats this new age stuff" When truly its been a slow burn and natural progression for just about all X characters.


trying to explain to people that charles is shady.... I get " they just turned him into someone shady for shock" When really Charles has been shady and a jerks from the very early issues of x-men.

The thing about it is he hasn't done anything as bad ( Killing Xavier not withstanding ) as hank and bobby make it out to be . They show him on tv saving mutants from persecution and saying stand up for themselves yet bobby whining that he's making them look bad . Cap in all new xmen was being ridiculous with ordering havok around and then trying to boss around the xkids

They have touched on this. As far as a lot of the X-men are concerned, Scott making his decision just cut them all deeper than Normal. They looked at Cyclops as the "big brother" or golden standard of what an X-Man should be and him having that fall from grace hurt a lot of these cats. It's like finding out an athlete you looked up to was abusing drugs his whole career

 

[Mic-Nificent]

They have touched on this. As far as a lot of the X-men are concerned, Scott making his decision just cut them all deeper than Normal. They looked at Cyclops as the "big brother" or golden standard of what an X-Man should be and him having that fall from grace hurt a lot of these cats. It's like finding out an athlete you looked up to was abusing drugs his whole career

Except there really wasn't a fall from Grace.

He killed Xavier while possessed by the Phoenix and has said numerous times he'd never kill Xavier if he had been in control. Everybody else gets a pass when mind controlled by not Scott?


That "we're more hurt because Scott was the best of us" stuff is still bullshyt because it doesn't acknowledge that he never actually did anything wrong.

The only questionable things he did was form X-Force and WMD X-Men squad, both of which were done in response to a growing threat.

Hell when Beast turned on Cyclops it was supposedly because Beast had been kidnapped and tortured by Norman Osbourn, but for whatever reason Beast Blamed Scott for that shyt

 

[OmegaK2099]

anyone remember Birdy? Was she ever significant at one point or was she always sabretooth's harley quinn

 

[JackBrannigan]

I just remember her in his miniseries going into his brain to keep him sane. Basically giving him mental massages but the stuff she was seeing was fukked up.

 

[DMR]

Except there really wasn't a fall from Grace.

He killed Xavier while possessed by the Phoenix and has said numerous times he'd never kill Xavier if he had been in control. Everybody else gets a pass when mind controlled by not Scott?

Scarlet Witch gets a pass for wiping out mutants cause "she wasnt in her right mind" and Cyclops clearly controlled by Phoenix killed Xavier (plus he'll be resurrected before you'd even know it anyways) and suddenly hes the bad guy

 

[Bud Bundy]

Scarlet Witch gets a pass for wiping out mutants cause "she wasnt in her right mind" and Cyclops clearly controlled by Phoenix killed Xavier (plus he'll be resurrected before you'd even know it anyways) and suddenly hes the bad guy

the only people giving Scarlet Witch a pass are her Avengers friends.

Rouge gives her shyt every issues in Uncanny Avengers.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

 

[Grifter]

:nice: He fukks everybody.

 

[OmegaK2099]

I just remember her in his miniseries going into his brain to keep him sane. Basically giving him mental massages but the stuff she was seeing was fukked up.

Around that time it lead to logan popping his claw into creeds brain and marvel was stuck on whether to have him turn face for awhile, The birdy character could have worked where creeds still an ass but you still like him alot like lobo. He was rockin suits and sh1t when his mind was right.

surprisingly she only appeared briefly in her first appearance then died like you said in sabretooths mini-series (which i liked despite the art, reminded me of the cell)

they retconned the sh1t out of that disturbing imagery, he had a horror movie style origin, I remember his pops was a bible thumping redneck, beat the sh1t outta creed near death daily who killed his own wife while trying to kill his own son, he looked like this

 

[JMurder]

the only people giving Scarlet Witch a pass are her Avengers friends.

Rouge gives her shyt every issues in Uncanny Avengers.

Lol at you only being able to name one person who clearly doesn't fukk with Scarlet Witch

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[R=G]

Cyclops isn't innocent. He was fukking around on Grey at the end of that Morrison run with Emma...he was behind that X-Force bullshyt the first time around..he threatened the mayor of San Francisco in Magneto-like fashion when Gillen's run started up in 2011...he threatened the govts of the world to leave him and Utopia alone ala Magneto in Genosha/Asteroid M/Avalon....him killing Xavier and not really caring too much in the aftermath is what's kind of odd.

The Scarlet Witch thing is a generalization..there is no concrete names on who died when she did her spell and they didn't start getting mad about it until Children's Crusade came about in like 2010. Quicksilver put her up to it and they didn't do a damn thing to him.

The Rogue thing is funny..she was a Wanda supporter to end Children's Crusade but Remender flipped it and has made them arch enemies, which is apparently is supposed to lead to them being friends when shyt gets tight or whenever they cross Magneto in the next several months which has been alluded to by Remender as well. Rogue forgives LeBeau for the mutant massacre set up....has SEEN outright Magneto kill and take out enemies in plain sight..crushed the global EM field and she still was sympathic later in the same issue. Now she's ANGRY as fukk?