Essential The Official Comic Book Discussion Thread [Support @Neuromancer’s book!]

[Mr. Negative]

first things first. NOBODY said DC Villains wouldn't make it in Marvel.

Two. Everybody's bringing up all of these crime lords and kings and shyt and you're missing the point. YES, Joker is an A-List DC villain.

But he's a STREET LEVEL BATMAN VILLAIN. He would give Spiderman migraines, yes. Daredevil, possibly. BUT HE WOULD BE A STREET LEVEL VILLAIN.

And you gotta look at it like this: Damn near every superhero in Marvel operates in New York. Joker fukks with Batman's folks mainly IN GOTHAM.

He's not gonna be pulling that wild out shyt all over New York. He's prolly stay in Hell's Kitchen or some shyt. HE WOULDNT BE AN A-LIST VILLAIN.

He wouldn't know how to deal with a Wolverine, he wouldn't know how to deal with a Punisher.

And YES, The Hood through some wack ass writing, was giving The Avengers fits. But only because he organized every B and C lever crook into an army after Kingpin fell off. Villains in DC don't wanna deal with The Joker like that. lmao He's to craaaazyyy. And no, I don't see Joker going off on some epic quest for the Infinity Gems. I'm not going to try and figure out how The Hood was hunting the gems. I didn't read that shyt.

He wouldn't last as an Avengers villain. How long would that really last?

He wouldn't last as an X-Men villain, unless they gave him some insanity aura mutant power.

Who would that leave? The Prowler? Joker gonna set up shop in Houston and fukk with Scarlet Spider?

DC Villains in Marvel? YES. Hell, Pre-Reboot Rogues would wreck shop in Marvel.

Joker, by his very nature? Just because he gives Batman fits at the whim of writers?

no.

 

[Mr. Negative]

Too bad I cant use shyt like this in a comic debate anymore.

What, with Joker mentally reinventing himself or whatever. Not that I'd ever knock Grant Morrison's writing.

 

[Jello Biafra]

As far as Fury goes, I guess they're not making her the daughter of Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor?

They didn't say who her dad was so it could still possibly be Trevor.

 

[Jello Biafra]

first things first. NOBODY said DC Villains wouldn't make it in Marvel.

Two. Everybody's bringing up all of these crime lords and kings and shyt and you're missing the point. YES, Joker is an A-List DC villain.

But he's a STREET LEVEL BATMAN VILLAIN. He would give Spiderman migraines, yes. Daredevil, possibly. BUT HE WOULD BE A STREET LEVEL VILLAIN.

And you gotta look at it like this: Damn near every superhero in Marvel operates in New York. Joker fukks with Batman's folks mainly IN GOTHAM.

He's not gonna be pulling that wild out shyt all over New York. He's prolly stay in Hell's Kitchen or some shyt. HE WOULDNT BE AN A-LIST VILLAIN.

He wouldn't know how to deal with a Wolverine, he wouldn't know how to deal with a Punisher.

And YES, The Hood through some wack ass writing, was giving The Avengers fits. But only because he organized every B and C lever crook into an army after Kingpin fell off. Villains in DC don't wanna deal with The Joker like that. lmao He's to craaaazyyy. And no, I don't see Joker going off on some epic quest for the Infinity Gems. I'm not going to try and figure out how The Hood was hunting the gems. I didn't read that shyt.

He wouldn't last as an Avengers villain. How long would that really last?

He wouldn't last as an X-Men villain, unless they gave him some insanity aura mutant power.

Who would that leave? The Prowler? Joker gonna set up shop in Houston and fukk with Scarlet Spider?

DC Villains in Marvel? YES. Hell, Pre-Reboot Rogues would wreck shop in Marvel.

Joker, by his very nature? Just because he gives Batman fits at the whim of writers?

no.

But that is just it, the Joker is a Batman villain, he only wants to be a Batman villain, his only focus in life is Batman. So he isn't going to be doing any of the ambitious, major stuff that a Luthor or Ra's Al Ghul would be up to. That doesn't make him a B-List villain, just on the strength of what he's done just fukking with the Bat universe in DC he is a more accomplished villain than just about any other bad guy in DC or Marvel. And plopping him down in New York to be a Daredevil or Spider-Man villain wouldn't change anything because he would give them fits just like he does Batman and then he'd go to whatever facility Marvel uses to house their super-villains until he escaped to bother them again. Neither hero would kill him to finally be rid of him just like Batman doesn't and he would be considered one of their major enemies not some jobber like Stilt-man or something.

 

[Mr. Negative]

But that is just it, the Joker is a Batman villain, he only wants to be a Batman villain, his only focus in life is Batman. So he isn't going to be doing any of the ambitious, major stuff that a Luthor or Ra's Al Ghul would be up to. That doesn't make him a B-List villain, just on the strength of what he's done just fukking with the Bat universe in DC he is a more accomplished villain than just about any other bad guy in DC or Marvel. And plopping him down in New York to be a Daredevil or Spider-Man villain wouldn't change anything because he would give them fits just like he does Batman and then he'd go to whatever facility Marvel uses to house their super-villains until he escaped to bother them again. Neither hero would kill him to finally be rid of him just like Batman doesn't and he would be considered one of their major enemies not some jobber like Stilt-man or something.

I never said Joker wasn't an A-Class villain, dude. I said I don't like the character's... mallability.

And I also said that outside of pestering Daredevil or giving Spiderman migraines (because he would), he wouldn't be regarded as an A-Class villain.

He wouldn't be Stilt-Man..... okay, I'll give him The Owl, since Owl was in Kingpin's position for a year or so. And I'll say he'd make a good Daredevil villain.

but that's where it stops.

 

[23Barrettcity]

I would love to know where this idea that Marvel is some badass place that DC villains wouldn't make it in. And if we are going to start talking about writers bending over backwards to make villains seem more special than they actually are I would just point everyone to the fact that Norman fukking Osborn was made into the greatest villain in the Marvel U and actually co-signed by the general public and the United States government despite his being a documented lunatic who dressed up like a Dungeons and Dragons cosplayer in his spare time.

As far as villains having issues with one another and pulling double crosses: Magneto tried to end The Red Skull's Nazi ass on one occasion, failed to get the job done and just decided to let that whole slaughtering of my family in concentration camp business slide. The Skull has been back in business for years but hasn't tried to get payback against Magneto.

The Skull has been fukking over Captain America since the 40s yet even when he was running around Europe with a gun during WWII Cap didn't kill Skull. Or Zemo or any of the other war time villains he still fights to this day.

The Incredible Hulk hasn't offed any of the villains that have been bothering him from the beginning and he is either clinically retarded or sociopathic depending on who is writing him each month.

Punisher has not killed any name brand costumed villains in his entire time being in existence.

Doom struts around the Marvel U like his shyt don't stink daring Reed Richards and any other hero to even look in his direction with a smirk on their face.

And since 90% of all Marvel villains (regardless of how disgusting their past behavior has been) seem to be turned into anti-heroes and accepted by the good guys, I would wager that Joker would be a member of the Avengers by his 5th year in the Marvel U and if they could retcon his ass a mutant he'd be running an X-Men squad by year 6.

And the fukking Hood, a loser in Wranglers and a Little Red Rididng Hood cape was for a time the #1 adversary of the Avengers making them look like morons for a couple years. The Hood. Just let that marinate for a second. The Hood. Owned. The. Avengers.

But The Joker wouldn't last in the Marvel Universe.

The Marvel fanboyism in this thread has been ridiculous from the jump but on this subject it is just out of hand.

Breh honestly I'm a dc fan boy but I feel that the joker has been written kind of ridiculous recently . In death of the family he knocked out Tim and Jason Tito get them to fight but the end result of his plan was really to knock them out kind of rendering the plan redundant

In marvel Norman Osborn technically is a successful lex Luthor style businessman who was driven crazy by the goblin gas. So he has an excuse technically and him taking over was actually kind of clever . The public saw the avengers fighting themselves and skrulls in New York and they didn't know what was going on , on top of the fact that ironman and his stupid registration act combined with the Stamford incident had the people mistrusting heroes already . He saved the day in invasion using his stolen knowledge from dead pool and the world saw him as a hero . He then was sonning the avengers by using their mistrust of heroes that they themselves started .

Punisher killed the new vulture . The hulk was accused of killing civilians by the illuminati but Amadeus cho said Bruce always keeps the hulk from killing people , the red skull seems to die or escape alot at the end of his plans and magneto himself was too busy doing crazy plans like never dying and pretending to be xorn ()
In marvel Alot of villains seem to die at the end of their schemes after they backfire . The hood did like libra and gathered together alll the fodder type villians making himself a crime boss he also has I think some of dormanu power

 

[TNC]

As far as I know Reed Richards has not killed Doom despite having many chances, Cap has not killed Red Skull despite having many chances, Daredevil has not killed Kingpin despite having many chances, etc.

Most of this is not true.

Cap actually has killed Red Skull before (several times, if you want to get technical), its just Red Skull keeps coming back due to cloned bodies and conciousnesses.

Reed has never actually set out to kill Doom, but he's left him in alternate dimensions and even hell before.

And Daredevil is pretty strict on the not killing rule, he's actually a closer analogue to Batman than Cap is

 

[23Barrettcity]

I never said Joker wasn't an A-Class villain, dude. I said I don't like the character's... mallability.

And I also said that outside of pestering Daredevil or giving Spiderman migraines (because he would), he wouldn't be regarded as an A-Class villain.

He wouldn't be Stilt-Man..... okay, I'll give him The Owl, since Owl was in Kingpin's position for a year or so. And I'll say he'd make a good Daredevil villain.

but that's where it stops.

Joker has become too tied into batman now literally his goal is to troll batman . He used to before leave town cause batman made it too hot and go to metropolis or some other place to commit crimes now Snyder made him into a supertroll

 

[23Barrettcity]

Most of this is not true.

Cap actually has killed Red Skull before (several times, if you want to get technical), its just Red Skull keeps coming back due to cloned bodies and conciousnesses.

Reed has never actually set out to kill Doom, but he's left him in alternate dimensions and even hell before.

And Daredevil is pretty strict on the not killing rule, he's actually a closer analogue to Batman than Cap is

Very true Rees tends to stick to doing scientific stuff and then gets brought into shenanigans from there , I think he would kill doom though if he absolutely had too but doom is a ruler , sorcerer and super intellect not that easy to kill .
Daredevil is similar to batman while cap is a soldier who fought in ww2 and has killed people before

 

[Moose_Greyjoy]

Very true Rees tends to stick to doing scientific stuff and then gets brought into shenanigans from there , I think he would kill doom though if he absolutely had too but doom is a ruler , sorcerer and super intellect not that easy to kill .
Daredevil is similar to batman while cap is a soldier who fought in ww2 and has killed people before

I don't think Reed would ever kill Doom.....in some ways Doom is tied in with the Fantastic Four family the same way joker is to Batman.....I only say this because recently Reed did save Doom from his own doings when Doom created a whole world in his own image of perfection.....not to mention Reeds own daughter has taken a liking to "Uncle" Doom.

I'm a on and off reader though so I wont get anal if what I said is maybe wrong

 

[Mr. Negative]

Daredevil is similar to batman while cap is a soldier who fought in ww2 and has killed people before

A lot of people don't know it, but the very first things Captain America did when he got the Super Soldier Serum (in comics. Movie? I dozed off):

1. Watch Professor Erskine (inventor of the Serum) get killed

2. Kill the dude that did it.

 

[Mr. Negative]

I don't think Reed would ever kill Doom.....in some ways Doom is tied in with the Fantastic Four family the same way joker is to Batman.....I only say this because recently Reed did save Doom from his own doings when Doom created a whole world in his own image of perfection.....not to mention Reeds own daughter has taken a liking to "Uncle" Doom.

I'm a on and off reader though so I wont get anal if what I said is maybe wrong

you're right. It was an interesting change when Hickman took over writing duties.

Doom and Reed seemed to.... give up the grudge through Valeria.

 

[TNC]

you're right. It was an interesting change when Hickman took over writing duties.

Doom and Reed seemed to.... give up the grudge through Valeria.

Well Doom actually was the one who delivered Valeria because Sue went into Labor while Reed was "off planet". Doom, in exchange, requested to be Valeria's Godfather, which Reed and Sue granted him.

Doom actually has a lot of compassion for Valeria in turn and she feels the same way. Doom is sort of extended family now.

 

[Jello Biafra]

Uncanny X-Men #1

Spoiler

I always had an issue with Magneto joining up with Cyclops after AvX so this is a good twist. Don't know what's up with him shaving his head though.

 

[23Barrettcity]

Uncanny X-Men #1

Spoiler

I always had an issue with Magneto joining up with Cyclops after AvX so this is a good twist. Don't know what's up with him shaving his head though.

That man is so jealous mad that Scott is doing a better job as a magneto type figure than he ever did . What's his powers now ? And lol at this hypocrite at least Scott was being controlled this killed jean didn't he ? Tried to destroy manhattan , declared war on humanity all this time and he blames cyke??? fukk him !!him and cap should go have a self righteous stand off