pure fukkery..just like terry norris and paul vaden...fighting over a woman...i still hold hope this fukkery will make a comeback among these risk averse businessmen
Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.
- Thread starter Jesus Is Lord
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pure fukkery..just like terry norris and paul vaden...fighting over a woman...i still hold hope this fukkery will make a comeback among these risk averse businessmen
pure fukkery..just like terry norris and paul vaden...fighting over a woman...i still hold hope this fukkery will make a comeback among these risk averse businessmen
Nah, these guys just want to make their money & go home twice a year & they are good.
It's all about the twitter beef though! !!
NasirJr
★ＣＡＲＯＬＩＮＡＳ ＦＩＮＥＳＴ★
Makes it damn near impossible to defend my generation of boxing to old heads
Amare's Right Hook
Southeast World Champion
GREENandYELLOW
2x...and defending
Dan Rafael chat wrap 7/29:
- Who is a better fighter currently: Valdez or Spence? Valdez looked terrific over the weekend, but still gives the edge to Spence.
- Crawford vs. Spence? Spence.
- Crawford vs. Manny would be an outstanding fight and he would give Manny a lot of problems.
- Weight for Manny vs. Crawford? We would have to see. Crawford can say 140, but everything is a negotiation.
- Nothing official on Crawford-Postol PPV numbers. He has heard everything from short of 50k to 77k.
- The attendance of 7k for Crawford-Postol in the middle of summer, with two fighters who aren't huge names, is actually really good. The gate was around $700k.
- Thought Crawford looked impressive and the fight was interesting. Postol looked bad because Crawford is just that good. Postol is a good fighter.
- Crawford's contract for the Postol fight was $1.3 million plus PPV upside. He won't see any PPV upside money as it didn't do well enough.
- Who would he like to see Canelo fight? GGG, Andrade, Jacobs, or Lemieux.
- Looks like Cotto vs. JMM won't happen. No rumors of it, but Cotto vs. Bradley would be interesting.
- There are some who don't believe Pacquiao will actually fight Nov. 5th. Before we get worried about Manny's PPV being 2 weeks before Ward-Kovalev, lets see how it plays out.
- Not impossible that Ward vs. Kovalev gets moved from its Nov. 19 date.
- Stevenson vs. Williams? Fun fight, could be very action packed. Stevenson by KO.
- Will the LSC vs. Frampton winner make the top 10 PFP? Probably not, but lets see how the fight goes. He would have the winner in his top 20, but unlikely in his top 10.
- LSC is getting $1 million and Frampton $500k, but likely more with UK TV money.
- Fan write in: he predicts Frampton's fans will be drunker than LSC's at the fight, because Frampton's were drunk at the weigh-in.
- Good fight, but LSC by decision.
- The reported Oct. 29th date for Fury vs. Klitschko is not a solid date at all. In fact the venue hold may go off and need to find a different location. Fury's team is being very difficult and not communicating, they are holding up the fight.
- Marriaga's next fight is a title eliminator to become Valdez's mandatory. It won't be due immediately, so Valdez will be allowed a fight in between.
- Will believe Garcia vs. Thurman when he sees it. If it happens it is a great fight. Garcia's team probably feels that Berto is an easy payday. Berto didn't earn his title shot.
- Malignaggi by decision.
- RJJ financial issues are well known, but in the announced fight vs. Rodney Moore, he likely isn't making much. Thinks he took the fight because he just wants to fight.
- Would be up to see Lomachenko vs. Gamboa, but who knows what Gamboa is up to.
- How many PBC fighters are A-side of a PPV guys? None.
- Not sure if we see more primetime cards from PBC on Fox. They were scheduled for 3 and have done all three. Still possible they could do more.
- Part of PBC's deal with ESPN was to have 2 prime time fights on ABC. Those aren't happening.
- PBC on ESPN is Haymon's dumping ground for bad fights. Last year it was pretty good.
- The WBC has not decided if Povetkin is still Wilder's mandatory or not.
- Really looking forward to Chocolatito vs. Cuadras. Excellent matchup.
- Chocolatito vs. Darchinyan at 112? Chocolatito with a straight punch over Vic's looping shots and a Donaire like KO.
- Chocolatito vs. Donaire at 112? Tough to say because Donaire was devastating at 112 and he would have a height and reach advantage. It would be a close, exciting fight.
- RJJ vs. GGG at 160? RJJ at 160-168 is arguably the greatest fighter of all time. The only fighter he could potentially take over RJJ at those weights is SRR.
- Fight of the night could be Rabchenko vs. Harrison.
- Says that he never wrote that GGG demanded a 164 lb catchweight to fight Ward. Loeffler said that it was something they would bring up in negotiations if the two camps ever had serious discussions.
- Guzman can crack, now lets see him vs. somebody better than Wake, who isn't very good.
- Guerrero vs. Broner? Who cares.
- Nonito hasn't been fighting in the US because HBO isn't interested in putting him on TV (which he disagrees with HBO's opinion). He has made good money doing fights in Asia. Nonito said he wants his next fight to be back in the US.
- Broner for HOF? Hall of wasted talent and dopes.
- GB wants to put Ustinov vs. Ortiz on the Canelo undercard, but they are having issues because Ortiz wants more money to do so.
- Mares will probably fight Cueller this fall in California, where the eye test is lower than NY's.
- Arum says he really wants to make Salido vs. Loma 2 and both fighters want the fight. It will come down to if there is enough money to make the fight. Salido is not going to take short money and he shouldn't have to.
- It is a bit sketchy for Spike to have Tarver on air as a broadcaster.
- Farmer vs. Redkach? Good style match, leaning towards Redkach.
- Alvarez and Stevenson are on the same card to drum up interest in Montreal for them to fight next.
- Inoue vs. Chocolatito? Eventually.
- Andy Lee wants to fight this fall, but right now nothing is being set up.
- Duran vs. Mosley at 135? Love the fight!
- Provodnikov should probably retire, but if he wants to keep fighting, so be it. He is no longer championship material and is just a name with eroding ability.
- Top 3 most fan friendly fighters? GGG, Kovalev, and Chocolatito. (among others)
- Will Margarito get a bigger fight? Hard because he doesn't think he can get licensed in the US.
- Lipinets is an exciting fighter who certainly could win a belt one day.
- Froch for HOF? Very good chance, believes so.
- More impressive career: ODH or Cotto? ODH.
- Charlo vs. J-Rock dates and location are up in the air, should get finalization's soon.
- Who is a better fighter currently: Valdez or Spence? Valdez looked terrific over the weekend, but still gives the edge to Spence.
- Crawford vs. Spence? Spence.
- Crawford vs. Manny would be an outstanding fight and he would give Manny a lot of problems.
- Weight for Manny vs. Crawford? We would have to see. Crawford can say 140, but everything is a negotiation.
- Nothing official on Crawford-Postol PPV numbers. He has heard everything from short of 50k to 77k.
- The attendance of 7k for Crawford-Postol in the middle of summer, with two fighters who aren't huge names, is actually really good. The gate was around $700k.
- Thought Crawford looked impressive and the fight was interesting. Postol looked bad because Crawford is just that good. Postol is a good fighter.
- Crawford's contract for the Postol fight was $1.3 million plus PPV upside. He won't see any PPV upside money as it didn't do well enough.
- Who would he like to see Canelo fight? GGG, Andrade, Jacobs, or Lemieux.
- Looks like Cotto vs. JMM won't happen. No rumors of it, but Cotto vs. Bradley would be interesting.
- There are some who don't believe Pacquiao will actually fight Nov. 5th. Before we get worried about Manny's PPV being 2 weeks before Ward-Kovalev, lets see how it plays out.
- Not impossible that Ward vs. Kovalev gets moved from its Nov. 19 date.
- Stevenson vs. Williams? Fun fight, could be very action packed. Stevenson by KO.
- Will the LSC vs. Frampton winner make the top 10 PFP? Probably not, but lets see how the fight goes. He would have the winner in his top 20, but unlikely in his top 10.
- LSC is getting $1 million and Frampton $500k, but likely more with UK TV money.
- Fan write in: he predicts Frampton's fans will be drunker than LSC's at the fight, because Frampton's were drunk at the weigh-in.
- Good fight, but LSC by decision.
- The reported Oct. 29th date for Fury vs. Klitschko is not a solid date at all. In fact the venue hold may go off and need to find a different location. Fury's team is being very difficult and not communicating, they are holding up the fight.
- Marriaga's next fight is a title eliminator to become Valdez's mandatory. It won't be due immediately, so Valdez will be allowed a fight in between.
- Will believe Garcia vs. Thurman when he sees it. If it happens it is a great fight. Garcia's team probably feels that Berto is an easy payday. Berto didn't earn his title shot.
- Malignaggi by decision.
- RJJ financial issues are well known, but in the announced fight vs. Rodney Moore, he likely isn't making much. Thinks he took the fight because he just wants to fight.
- Would be up to see Lomachenko vs. Gamboa, but who knows what Gamboa is up to.
- How many PBC fighters are A-side of a PPV guys? None.
- Not sure if we see more primetime cards from PBC on Fox. They were scheduled for 3 and have done all three. Still possible they could do more.
- Part of PBC's deal with ESPN was to have 2 prime time fights on ABC. Those aren't happening.
- PBC on ESPN is Haymon's dumping ground for bad fights. Last year it was pretty good.
- The WBC has not decided if Povetkin is still Wilder's mandatory or not.
- Really looking forward to Chocolatito vs. Cuadras. Excellent matchup.
- Chocolatito vs. Darchinyan at 112? Chocolatito with a straight punch over Vic's looping shots and a Donaire like KO.
- Chocolatito vs. Donaire at 112? Tough to say because Donaire was devastating at 112 and he would have a height and reach advantage. It would be a close, exciting fight.
- RJJ vs. GGG at 160? RJJ at 160-168 is arguably the greatest fighter of all time. The only fighter he could potentially take over RJJ at those weights is SRR.
- Fight of the night could be Rabchenko vs. Harrison.
- Says that he never wrote that GGG demanded a 164 lb catchweight to fight Ward. Loeffler said that it was something they would bring up in negotiations if the two camps ever had serious discussions.
- Guzman can crack, now lets see him vs. somebody better than Wake, who isn't very good.
- Guerrero vs. Broner? Who cares.
- Nonito hasn't been fighting in the US because HBO isn't interested in putting him on TV (which he disagrees with HBO's opinion). He has made good money doing fights in Asia. Nonito said he wants his next fight to be back in the US.
- Broner for HOF? Hall of wasted talent and dopes.
- GB wants to put Ustinov vs. Ortiz on the Canelo undercard, but they are having issues because Ortiz wants more money to do so.
- Mares will probably fight Cueller this fall in California, where the eye test is lower than NY's.
- Arum says he really wants to make Salido vs. Loma 2 and both fighters want the fight. It will come down to if there is enough money to make the fight. Salido is not going to take short money and he shouldn't have to.
- It is a bit sketchy for Spike to have Tarver on air as a broadcaster.
- Farmer vs. Redkach? Good style match, leaning towards Redkach.
- Alvarez and Stevenson are on the same card to drum up interest in Montreal for them to fight next.
- Inoue vs. Chocolatito? Eventually.
- Andy Lee wants to fight this fall, but right now nothing is being set up.
- Duran vs. Mosley at 135? Love the fight!
- Provodnikov should probably retire, but if he wants to keep fighting, so be it. He is no longer championship material and is just a name with eroding ability.
- Top 3 most fan friendly fighters? GGG, Kovalev, and Chocolatito. (among others)
- Will Margarito get a bigger fight? Hard because he doesn't think he can get licensed in the US.
- Lipinets is an exciting fighter who certainly could win a belt one day.
- Froch for HOF? Very good chance, believes so.
- More impressive career: ODH or Cotto? ODH.
- Charlo vs. J-Rock dates and location are up in the air, should get finalization's soon.
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Amare's Right Hook
Southeast World Champion
"Berto doesn't deserve a title shot"
Phucking understatement of the year
Phucking understatement of the year
charknicks
All Star
i want to see rivalries where nikkas hate each other...i want to see some pure unadulterated hatred..no friendly/business deal type of rivalries..competitive rivalries is ok but hate is to the bone
We all would like to see that back, but I dont think its gonna happen. Cats are making too much money to not be as invested in hating the opponent, even to fight 2nd and 3rd tier opponents. Back then, you had to go through a top level guy and make good money to get to another top level guy and make great/outstanding money. The hate built to get to THE top spot. Now, you can make bank and be the HBO top guy, as well as bank being the Showtime top guy and being the never see each other.
shhh-kull & bones
Judah have I loved, Esau have I hated! -GAWD
Its obvious why the sport of boxing is not attracting as much talent as it should and once did. Every fighter gets bad-mouthed by the press and trashed by idiot know-nothing fans.
First and foremost the majority of those commenting and putting out their ignorant opinions on the sport never actually dared put on a pair of gloves or even have had the balls to get into a fist fight. Its a bunch of nerds and drunk groupies who find nothing better to do than to berate professional boxers for sport( yes pun intended).
Boxing has turned to a 'shyt' job precisely because sleaze-ball promoters are now only pandering to the base impulses of drunk masses. Now the sweet science has had to stoop down to the irrational demands and sway of ignorant crowds. Instead of the sport being appreciated for the beautiful art form that it is, the objective now has become about satisfying the base appetites of drunk crowds.
Even the fans of the savage roman gladiator sports of olden days had respect for the athletes they threw to the lions. These days a great fighter would emerge and do amazing things only to get trashed in the press or discredited because he didnt quite get the victory in the way their appetites dictated it.
Thats the backdrop or context that a great fighter like Adonis has to compete in.Aside from the flack he gets from being a 'Haitian', he is trashed at every turn despite all he has accomplished and had to overcome. Most of those trashing him and others like him never really had to deal with any real challenges in their lives.
But thats not why these guys watch the sport. Its not even about appreciating the fact that a fighter was able to win despite the odds. Its about unchecked appetites and base impulses.
Slaves, strippers and boxers are expected to perform their duties shirtless for the amusement and profit of others. I think the sign of a high culture is when folks of a society start to appreciate the sacrifices of those willing to face danger and degeneration and still triumph.
Adonis knocked out a game opponent tonight in 4 rounds. THE DETRACTORS ARE STILL NOt SATISFIED.
IF ADONIS WAS ABLE TO DECAPITATE HIS OPPONENT IN THE FIRST SECOND OF THE FIGHT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A MONSTER.
THERE'S NO WINNING IN WINNING FOR TODAYS KNOW-NOTHING CROWDS.
RIP TO THE SPORT OF BOXING.
USHER IN THE TELEVISED MURDER-BLOOD-DRINKING SPORTS WHERE ALL ATHLETES FIGHT TO THE DEATH. THE WINNER GETS TO BE KILLED BY THE CROWD AT THE END OF THE FIGHT AND GETS HIS REMAINS EATEN RAW.
AT LEAST THAT ATHLETE WONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PRESS AND SOCIAL MEDIA COMMENTARY THE NEXT MORNING.
First and foremost the majority of those commenting and putting out their ignorant opinions on the sport never actually dared put on a pair of gloves or even have had the balls to get into a fist fight. Its a bunch of nerds and drunk groupies who find nothing better to do than to berate professional boxers for sport( yes pun intended).
Boxing has turned to a 'shyt' job precisely because sleaze-ball promoters are now only pandering to the base impulses of drunk masses. Now the sweet science has had to stoop down to the irrational demands and sway of ignorant crowds. Instead of the sport being appreciated for the beautiful art form that it is, the objective now has become about satisfying the base appetites of drunk crowds.
Even the fans of the savage roman gladiator sports of olden days had respect for the athletes they threw to the lions. These days a great fighter would emerge and do amazing things only to get trashed in the press or discredited because he didnt quite get the victory in the way their appetites dictated it.
Thats the backdrop or context that a great fighter like Adonis has to compete in.Aside from the flack he gets from being a 'Haitian', he is trashed at every turn despite all he has accomplished and had to overcome. Most of those trashing him and others like him never really had to deal with any real challenges in their lives.
But thats not why these guys watch the sport. Its not even about appreciating the fact that a fighter was able to win despite the odds. Its about unchecked appetites and base impulses.
Slaves, strippers and boxers are expected to perform their duties shirtless for the amusement and profit of others. I think the sign of a high culture is when folks of a society start to appreciate the sacrifices of those willing to face danger and degeneration and still triumph.
Adonis knocked out a game opponent tonight in 4 rounds. THE DETRACTORS ARE STILL NOt SATISFIED.
IF ADONIS WAS ABLE TO DECAPITATE HIS OPPONENT IN THE FIRST SECOND OF THE FIGHT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A MONSTER.
THERE'S NO WINNING IN WINNING FOR TODAYS KNOW-NOTHING CROWDS.
RIP TO THE SPORT OF BOXING.
USHER IN THE TELEVISED MURDER-BLOOD-DRINKING SPORTS WHERE ALL ATHLETES FIGHT TO THE DEATH. THE WINNER GETS TO BE KILLED BY THE CROWD AT THE END OF THE FIGHT AND GETS HIS REMAINS EATEN RAW.
AT LEAST THAT ATHLETE WONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PRESS AND SOCIAL MEDIA COMMENTARY THE NEXT MORNING.
reservoirdogs
Superstar
reservoirdogs
Superstar
I actually agree with this rant
Technical fighters like Rigo, Bradley, May or Ward get trashed cause "they are not entertaining", many people who watch this sport are still just blood thirsty savages who want to see some violence while they are drunk...
Not to say that I'm not entertained by a good brawl, it's great and all but I can also appreciate a great technician.
These motherfukkers on the other hand call everyone a runner now who isn't a face first brawler or a pressure fighter. Some of them started to call Crawford now a "new Mayweather" just because he won by an UD once (managed 2 KDs b the way...)
Mayweather was right btw... People were complaining that his style isn't entertaining enough and they actually expected him to change it because of that...
He didn't do so cause he knew which style fits him and which style he needs to win fights and to not become brain damaged at the age of 40 and he still sold the most... Of course I respect fighters who are all for the crowd warriors and rather view themselves as entertainers than professional athletes but I don't have a bad word to fighters who choose to not take unnecessary extra risk but play it safe. They shouldn't brawl just because some people are getting upset because the lack of action.
I also don't like to call fighters runners, except from Lara, but even in his case I don't complain about him not serving my appetite but rather that him being delusional and thinking that he is an extremely skilled defensive wizard while mos of the time he LITERALLY runs in the ring and after that he complains if he loses (Canelo...)
reservoirdogs
Superstar
I don't agree with boxing being dead though...
and I think MMA functions the same way with probably even worse fans, only difference that there a fighter only can be a "non-action fighter" by a little chance so the crowd is usually satisfied.
Their matchmaking is probably better than in boxing though because they make matches much easier... no promoters bs
Boxing is better at building long lasting stars though, these MMA champions get beat by underdogs every day...
and I think MMA functions the same way with probably even worse fans, only difference that there a fighter only can be a "non-action fighter" by a little chance so the crowd is usually satisfied.
Their matchmaking is probably better than in boxing though because they make matches much easier... no promoters bs
Boxing is better at building long lasting stars though, these MMA champions get beat by underdogs every day...
malbaker86
Gators
Eh, i'll play contrarian from somebody who has gotten themselves back into boxing over the past few years after losing interest once I entered high school in 2000.
Boxing has always had its mixture of politics when it comes to match making but I guess NOW with the advent and growing presence of social media, it's more available for us to dig deep and see how slimy the politics are that's going on and it can be off putting especially when there are fights that ALL boxing fans (hardcore and casuals) want that don't get made. Whether that's the boxers, promoters, or networks fault, that varies from case to case, but you gotta factor that in.
Another thing that's sort of off putting is on the boxers themselves. Granted, casuals and drunks who watch a fight love to be entertained and are rowdy when they aren't, but boxers (and we know they talk prefight hype to sell the fight) put some of that on themselves by boosting prefight and then fighting a safe fight that's the equivalent of watching a sparring session. I love skilled technicians too, but that's doesn't mean that at times it can leave you wanting MORE from them in the ring. Yet on the flipside, I do have to remember and mention that regardless of what's said prefight, STYLES MAKES FIGHTS.
Also somebody like Adonis Stevenson, which I don't think anybody denies is talented, catches his flack from the lack of top level opposition that he's faced over the past few years. Which some say he's ducking, some say KKK is ducking, but that goes back to paragraph one when I spoke on the politics of things. That's one reason why people love MMA, match making isn't an issue.
Last thing, even mentioned a few pages back in THIS thread....boxing needs heated rivalries and also personalities. It's JUST like baseball. The talent throughout the sport has ALWAYS been there, but the lack of personalities to draw new people to the sport isn't being developed.
Boxing has always had its mixture of politics when it comes to match making but I guess NOW with the advent and growing presence of social media, it's more available for us to dig deep and see how slimy the politics are that's going on and it can be off putting especially when there are fights that ALL boxing fans (hardcore and casuals) want that don't get made. Whether that's the boxers, promoters, or networks fault, that varies from case to case, but you gotta factor that in.
Another thing that's sort of off putting is on the boxers themselves. Granted, casuals and drunks who watch a fight love to be entertained and are rowdy when they aren't, but boxers (and we know they talk prefight hype to sell the fight) put some of that on themselves by boosting prefight and then fighting a safe fight that's the equivalent of watching a sparring session. I love skilled technicians too, but that's doesn't mean that at times it can leave you wanting MORE from them in the ring. Yet on the flipside, I do have to remember and mention that regardless of what's said prefight, STYLES MAKES FIGHTS.
Also somebody like Adonis Stevenson, which I don't think anybody denies is talented, catches his flack from the lack of top level opposition that he's faced over the past few years. Which some say he's ducking, some say KKK is ducking, but that goes back to paragraph one when I spoke on the politics of things. That's one reason why people love MMA, match making isn't an issue.
Last thing, even mentioned a few pages back in THIS thread....boxing needs heated rivalries and also personalities. It's JUST like baseball. The talent throughout the sport has ALWAYS been there, but the lack of personalities to draw new people to the sport isn't being developed.
This is true, but some boxers just don't have a personality to market themselves. That's harder to develop than sound boxing skills lol. It's just like some of the generic wrestlers today who are bland as fukk but have some in ring talent.
shhh-kull & bones
Judah have I loved, Esau have I hated! -GAWD
I
ok I will agree with most of your thoughts
I just think that if boxing itself as a combat art form is not dead... The respectability is definately not there anymore...given the sport was not developed by Boy Scouts... the era of Jack Jonhson and before nightmarish, with no money and mainly backyard gladiator blood letting of lower class throw away guys for the enjoyment of white collar types with down time and discretionary income...
boxing started to emerge as a viable profession during the depression era when fighters fought hundreds of fights and developed real skill and ability....Sugar Ray evolved during that era...a pure boxer...He was appreciated for his ability in the ring.... not side shows or petty nonsense...It was a time the well to do attended boxing events...
Now it's thotish celebrity types with no class...it's a circus all about base impulses...
It's even getting crazy when a guy like Khan is allowed to legally get clobbered by an under cover cruiserweight just cause folks don't understand what weight classes are about
Now Kell Brook has his head on a platter ready be chopped up for the enjoyment of drunk rowdy crowds...
Guys are fighting once a year and waiting for other guys to be available for non competitive yawn fests
I can go on...but damn guys like Adonis, Ortiz, Lara, Stiverne, Rigo, Spence, Crawford, Daniels ect...are either bashed, marginalized, trashed, avoided...ect....it's disgusting
But dudes like canelo, gg, kovalev, are given the red carpet...while using cheesed out tactics, like canelo fighting at catch weights, or these other guys with patted records but are media darlings
wow
ok I will agree with most of your thoughts
I just think that if boxing itself as a combat art form is not dead... The respectability is definately not there anymore...given the sport was not developed by Boy Scouts... the era of Jack Jonhson and before nightmarish, with no money and mainly backyard gladiator blood letting of lower class throw away guys for the enjoyment of white collar types with down time and discretionary income...
boxing started to emerge as a viable profession during the depression era when fighters fought hundreds of fights and developed real skill and ability....Sugar Ray evolved during that era...a pure boxer...He was appreciated for his ability in the ring.... not side shows or petty nonsense...It was a time the well to do attended boxing events...
Now it's thotish celebrity types with no class...it's a circus all about base impulses...
It's even getting crazy when a guy like Khan is allowed to legally get clobbered by an under cover cruiserweight just cause folks don't understand what weight classes are about
Now Kell Brook has his head on a platter ready be chopped up for the enjoyment of drunk rowdy crowds...
Guys are fighting once a year and waiting for other guys to be available for non competitive yawn fests
I can go on...but damn guys like Adonis, Ortiz, Lara, Stiverne, Rigo, Spence, Crawford, Daniels ect...are either bashed, marginalized, trashed, avoided...ect....it's disgusting
But dudes like canelo, gg, kovalev, are given the red carpet...while using cheesed out tactics, like canelo fighting at catch weights, or these other guys with patted records but are media darlings
wow