Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

mr. smoke weed

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Its cool, I respect your boxing knowledge on the board. However, you are wrong on this.

Ward's legal hell was his own doing (or his management, which is still on him). He thought he could start commanding $4-5 million/fight because he earned that bloated $2.5 millon/fight from that tournament. He decided to go on that hiatus because he overstated his worth due to winning that tournament. I believe that Ward is the pound for pound #1 in the world (for what thats worth), but you cant sit out for a couple years and fight on BET and then think you can command $4-5 million/fight. Your boxing window is but so long. You gotta keep in the public eye and fight.

Oh breh I was referencing the taking time to move up part.

Ward will prolly get 4.5-5mm+ a lil back end on the Kov ppv. He's still making $2.2mm to fight Paul Smith, Sullivan Barrera and $750-900k to fight Alex Brand or whatever cac (create a character @Newzz ) name dude he's fighting now.

BTW Rep's back and if y'all ain't repping your brehs in this thread heavy :ufdup:
 

reservoirdogs

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Oh breh I was referencing the taking time to move up part.

Ward will prolly get 4.5-5mm+ a lil back end on the Kov ppv. He's still making $2.2mm to fight Paul Smith, Sullivan Barrera and $750-900k to fight Alex Brand or whatever cac (create a character @Newzz ) name dude he's fighting now.

BTW Rep's back and if y'all ain't repping your brehs in this thread heavy :ufdup:

What's a rep and how it works? I'm new don't really know... Once I got 10 from someone in the first days but don't really know what is it. Also what's a neg and hos it's given.
And what's the difference between a dap and a rep if both are for positive reinforcement?
 

patscorpio

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Premier Boxing Champions: Still Lacking For Focus - Boxing News

Premier Boxing Champions: Still Lacking For Focus
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By Cliff Rold

The news was not good.

Last Saturday, fight fans got an interesting upset on national television when Joe Smith stopped light heavyweight contender Andrzej Fonfara in the first round. Too bad national television didn’t tune in.

One could look at this from a glass half full perspective. The Smith-Fonfara .8 rating still equated to over one million viewers, something few boxing cards have these days on any network. As a percentage of the television viewing audience that has access to a network like NBC, the glass isn’t just half empty.

It’s broken.

Is the PBC experiment broken as well?

The whole point of buying television time was to eventually create a product that would draw advertisers and be self-sustaining. When Keith-Thurman-Robert Guerrero drew a peak of four million viewers in the inaugural PBC card, there was reason to be optimistic. The PBC cards in prime time continue to draw more eyes than your average card. The Andre Berto-Victor Ortiz rematch on Fox averaged in the neighborhood of 1.5 million viewers.

The highest rated HBO card of the year, headlined by Gennady Golovkin, averaged 1.3 and change. As a percentage of available audience, that’s a better rating. It’s not more eyes.

That doesn’t erase the obvious: PBC used its access to present a product to an audience that has not grown. For years, fans have mused about what free TV could mean for boxing. If one is a network programmer, the evidence suggests it’s not a must investment right now.

The PBC may ultimately be hurting boxing’s chances of access to the mainstream in the future.

What went wrong?

The PBC has battled various headwinds from the start. There are elements in the press and among the boxing establishment that were never rooting for it. Lawsuits have made as many headlines as the fights.

Negative press, legal issues, and competitors don’t fully explain the problem. The nature of the programming has been its Achilles heel. The PBC has lacked any sort of internal logic, structure, or sense of build.

These are real problems.

The PBC has a significant portion of the 147 and 154 lb. landscape in house. Mixing and matching those talents in a way that produced drama and anticipation for future clashes shouldn’t have been like pulling teeth. In the early 1980s, matinee memories were made in a series of fights between Bobby Chacon, Cornelius Boza-Edwards, Bazooka Limon, and Rolando Navarrete.

The PBC might not have had those sorts of action heroes.

That’s no excuse for nights like Erislandy Lara-Jan Zaveck or Keith Thurman-Luis Collazo. When Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman both scored strong ratings in their maiden PBC voyages, wouldn’t it have made sense to immediately start moving them towards each other? Talking up a potential clash on the air?

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This Saturday, Thurman will face Shawn Porter in an interesting showdown of top ten welterweights. It took a long time to make (injury delay notwithstanding).

Why?

Neither is a big draw or has been particularly active as part of the PBC series. It’s nice to have this fight on the horizon but this sort of drawing out of fights that are really what should be standard clashes of top ten welterweights points to the PBC not having any more control over the matchmaking of boxing than anyone else.

It makes it common, and prone to the common pitfalls of the sport in consistent matchmaking.

Inconsistent matchmaking isn’t just a PBC problem. This week, HBO announced it would invest resources in what amounts to an infomercial for Andre Ward-Sergey Kovalev in letting Ward fight Alexander Brand. That’s not a competitive fight on paper. Airing Kovalev-Isaac Chilemba at least puts Kovalev in with a fighter who can be seen, as a contender at 175 lbs. but it’s only nominally better on paper. Take away HBO’s Fight of the Year leader in Orlando Salido-Francisco Vargas, and this has not been a banner year for HBO either.

At least there is a point. HBO is building towards a moment with monetary incentive. Where does Thurman-Porter lead? Will Garcia be at ringside? Will Errol Spence? Boxing is exciting in the moment but it always needs a ‘what next.’

So what’s next?

Without having ideas as to those answers, fewer and fewer seem to be tuning in. It feels like a series of random matches that might lead to something bigger but, hey, we’ll see.

The other issue has been the lack of focus on singular potential stars. Boxing is a draw-based sport. It always has been. Fight sports in general are. UFC has done good business for a decade. Business is better when a Brock Lesnar, Ronda Rousey, or Conor McGregor headlines. In well over a year, who has emerged as a potential star in the PBC?

The easiest answer should have been heavyweight Deontay Wilder. The quickest path to fan interest hasn’t changed. Big men with big punching power and personality are, historically, boxing’s surest bet. It has been said in this space before, and bears repeating: Wilder should have been the centerpiece from the start.

Maybe it’s the Mayweather effect. His presence brought attention to welterweight, the heavyweight scene was mostly overseas, so it stands to reason you’d program in Mayweather’s neighborhood. That meant two of Wilder’s three outings since the launch of the PBC have been on non-PBC Showtime cards.

That’s not a bad thing for Showtime and for hardcore fights fans, well, they’re going to watch wherever he is. As noted though, PBC cards on national networks have drawn more eyes than your average premium cards.

For a venture willing to put in millions to invest in the sport, how can that investment not have tried to build a star at heavyweight? This weekend, the WBC titlist Wilder will be on Showtime building interest in a possible showdown with IBF titlist Anthony Joshua. World champion Tyson Fury was in the ring, talking smack, after Wilder’s last Showtime appearance. Either could be a stadium fight in the UK in short order.

That’s how basic it is to build to something people want to see. Those, and what could still be a mandated showdown with Alexander Povetkin, are all fights fans will anticipate for Wilder. His career has direction.

That’s something it too often has felt like the PBC lacked. This weekend, we have Thurman-Porter. It’s a good fight. Based on the way the PBC has been handled, it’s a good fight that will have fewer eyes than it could have.

Where we go from here is unclear. That’s not a positive.
 

charknicks

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Oh breh I was referencing the taking time to move up part.

Ward will prolly get 4.5-5mm+ a lil back end on the Kov ppv. He's still making $2.2mm to fight Paul Smith, Sullivan Barrera and $750-900k to fight Alex Brand or whatever cac (create a character @Newzz ) name dude he's fighting now.

BTW Rep's back and if y'all ain't repping your brehs in this thread heavy :ufdup:

I hear you. Im talking the time between name opponets/ sitting out when you are on top of the world part. Same discussion, different side of the coin. Of course, he deserves $4-5 million plus PPV for fighting a Kovalev. Would have been more if he wasnt out the public eye for a while, thats my point.

And I hear you about the rep thing. Lead by example. Go ahead and hit that rep button with the +10 over there to the right.
 

ChocolateGiddyUp

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Ward is a terrible example. He is a great fighter, but has def been in the Winky Wright school of business the last few years with his decisions. He was in a weak 168 division and played his hand too long. Should have moved up/down 2-3 years ago.

Canelo and Swift are different. They were in big fight/ deep talent weight classes. They had matchups on deck. Canelo more so since he has that rabid Mexican fanbase to make fights bigger.


I'm specifically talking about from the time Ward decided/ forced to move up to 175 for Kovalev

A lot of people...A lot be on that fight Kovalev ASAP

Good teams ease they fighter into a new division with 2-3 fights to get used to the weight

Especially the jump from 140 - 147 N 154-160

Muhfukkers are much bigger at Welterweight N Middleweight compared to the weight classes below
 

charknicks

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Let the fights build brehs :bryan:

Exactly. The PBC is a great example. They have damn near all the big 147-154 fighters under their own deals, and none of them fighting each other. This Thurman-Porter fight has been in the works for a year and a half. Everyone wants these 7 figure paydays to fight bums. The boxing money is drying up, cause casuals arent into it like that. Hardcores will always be there. You need the casuals eyes and dollars.

Ward, Danny Garcia, etc. arent big draws to casual fans. You gotta either knock fools silly every fight (GGG, Kovalev, Lomanchenko), bring a big fan base (Canelo, Cotto), fight consistantly (GGG had 4 fights in '13, 3 in '14 & '15) or be a villain people will pay to see lose (Mayweather). Ward and Garcia dont talk/ drum up interest, (Also, why Lara and Rigo get no love). Boxing is not just a sport, its entertainment as well. Gotta entertain the masses to get them to spend money/ time on you. Yeah, you will have your 1 million-1.5 million hardcore fans watch boxing, but you gotta do one or more of these to bring the extra fans (and the money you want in your pocket). Out of sight, out of mind in America. People will move on quick and forget/ not invest in cats. Mexico (Canelo) and Puerto Rico (Cotto) will ride or die for their fighters. Thats the difference.
 

Tide Run This

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Exactly. The PBC is a great example. They have damn near all the big 147-154 fighters under their own deals, and none of them fighting each other. This Thurman-Porter fight has been in the works for a year and a half. Everyone wants these 7 figure paydays to fight bums. The boxing money is drying up, cause casuals arent into it like that. Hardcores will always be there. You need the casuals eyes and dollars.

Ward, Danny Garcia, etc. arent big draws to casual fans. You gotta either knock fools silly every fight (GGG, Kovalev, Lomanchenko), bring a big fan base (Canelo, Cotto), fight consistantly (GGG had 4 fights in '13, 3 in '14 & '15) or be a villain people will pay to see lose (Mayweather). Ward and Garcia dont talk/ drum up interest, (Also, why Lara and Rigo get no love). Boxing is not just a sport, its entertainment as well. Gotta entertain the masses to get them to spend money/ time on you. Yeah, you will have your 1 million-1.5 million hardcore fans watch boxing, but you gotta do one or more of these to bring the extra fans (and the money you want in your pocket). Out of sight, out of mind in America. People will move on quick and forget/ not invest in cats. Mexico (Canelo) and Puerto Rico (Cotto) will ride or die for their fighters. Thats the difference.


Nah it's cool though we need to keep throwing Berto and Guerrero into main events so they can be jobbers for Garcia or AB so it leads to uh uh uh wait let me think ......
 

Newzz

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Exactly. The PBC is a great example. They have damn near all the big 147-154 fighters under their own deals, and none of them fighting each other. This Thurman-Porter fight has been in the works for a year and a half. Everyone wants these 7 figure paydays to fight bums. The boxing money is drying up, cause casuals arent into it like that. Hardcores will always be there. You need the casuals eyes and dollars.

Ward, Danny Garcia, etc. arent big draws to casual fans. You gotta either knock fools silly every fight (GGG, Kovalev, Lomanchenko), bring a big fan base (Canelo, Cotto), fight consistantly (GGG had 4 fights in '13, 3 in '14 & '15) or be a villain people will pay to see lose (Mayweather). Ward and Garcia dont talk/ drum up interest, (Also, why Lara and Rigo get no love). Boxing is not just a sport, its entertainment as well. Gotta entertain the masses to get them to spend money/ time on you. Yeah, you will have your 1 million-1.5 million hardcore fans watch boxing, but you gotta do one or more of these to bring the extra fans (and the money you want in your pocket). Out of sight, out of mind in America. People will move on quick and forget/ not invest in cats. Mexico (Canelo) and Puerto Rico (Cotto) will ride or die for their fighters. Thats the difference.


I've been out the ring quite a bit this week.....but what are you talking bout breh?:dwillhuh:


Adrien Broner and Danny Garcia are the 2 biggest draws out of all American Boxers today :wow:


I see what you're saying, but including Swift's name in that group is wrong. He's a star.:manny:
 

ChocolateGiddyUp

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I've been out the ring quite a bit this week.....but what are you talking bout breh?:dwillhuh:


Adrien Broner and Danny Garcia are the 2 biggest draws out of all American Boxers today :wow:


I see what you're saying, but including Swift's name in that group is wrong. He's a star.:manny:


I read it like :mindblown:


Was bout to :cape:


Held myself back
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firemanBk

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I've been out the ring quite a bit this week.....but what are you talking bout breh?:dwillhuh:


Adrien Broner and Danny Garcia are the 2 biggest draws out of all American Boxers today :wow:


I see what you're saying, but including Swift's name in that group is wrong. He's a star.:manny:
Broner and Garcia are the biggest stars in American boxing but neither fights on PPV. Tells you how the market is here right now.
 

Newzz

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Broner and Garcia are the biggest stars in American boxing but neither fights on PPV. Tells you how the market is here right now.

Fighting on PPV doesn't mean you're a star though breh, it just means your network/promoter cant afford to pay you what you're asking for without the public's help.


I.E. Crawford and Postol are about to fight on PPV. Neither of them are as popular as AB or Swift.




Yeah one guy fighting is selling out venues & setting all types of TV records for Friday nights on Spike and Garcia beating up C listers that lead to nothing in front of million of viewers :francis:


*fixed for accuracy*



:yeshrug:



Yall can talk about AB's resume or Swift's opponents lately, but one thing no one can do is doubt the selling point of AB or Swift and their pull with the casuals.:wow:


Those 2 can fight low level comp and STILL do more views & draw more people to watch them fight than most American Boxers today can with a great matchup:manny:
 

charknicks

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Broner and Garcia are the biggest stars in American boxing but neither fights on PPV. Tells you how the market is here right now.

And THIS here is my point. Again, I appreciate level headed people who are able to understand business.

If you are the 2 biggest American fighters now (since Mayweather is retired), and you have NEVER been on PPV headliner yet, you are not as popular as you think.
 

charknicks

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Fighting on PPV doesn't mean you're a star though breh, it just means your network/promoter cant afford to pay you what you're asking for without the public's help.


I.E. Crawford and Postol are about to fight on PPV. Neither of them are as popular as AB or Swift.







*fixed for accuracy*



:yeshrug:



Yall can talk about AB's resume or Swift's opponents lately, but one thing no one can do is doubt the selling point of AB or Swift and their pull with the casuals.:wow:


Those 2 can fight low level comp and STILL do more views & draw more people to watch them fight than most American Boxers today can with a great matchup:manny:


Where did Broner come in this convo? Anyway, he fits one of the criteria I talked about earlier (villian, lots of people tune in to watch him lose). If he keeps fighting Theophanes and Allakhverdievs and those fans will be gone quick though. Keep pushing it.
 
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