Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

Mook

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Because the "cool" thing to do is hate on Broner at this point in time.

Like I said, people was hating so hard that even Paulie Malignaggi stated everybody Broner beat were laundromat workers......while conveniently forgetting that he, himself, lost to Broner as well.:snoop:

he didnt though :hmm:
 

Yuzo

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i think forrest as good as he was mayorga was all wrong for what he was. the same was true for mosley against forrest and wright because he fought a better fight in those bounce back return fights but it was clear as day they were just all wrong for mosley. there was something just lacking on a basic level. the twelve rounds that maidana and broner fought i saw nothing that showed broner in any real position of power over maidana. he was in the fight but nothing showed he was at any point on his way to winning it. even when he would throw more than one shot at a time there was always the danger of maidana answering back and rocking or hurting broner at any given moment throughout the entire fight. that same statement cant be made for broner. think about that.

i think gonzalez still has questions to answer because of the nature of the knockout coming so early. that was not enough information to say how that fight would look in a return match
 

surv2syn

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he didnt though :hmm:

yeah, thats the key thing to remember is Paulie believed he won. in all fairness to Paulie, he never really shyt on Broner. He said he is a very good WW, just not the next big thing. Which I agree with.
 

surv2syn

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i think forrest as good as he was mayorga was all wrong for what he was. the same was true for mosley against forrest and wright because he fought a better fight in those bounce back return fights but it was clear as day they were just all wrong for mosley. there was something just lacking on a basic level. the twelve rounds that maidana and broner fought i saw nothing that showed broner in any real position of power over maidana. he was in the fight but nothing showed he was at any point on his way to winning it. even when he would throw more than one shot at a time there was always the danger of maidana answering back and rocking or hurting broner at any given moment throughout the entire fight. that same statement cant be made for broner. think about that.

i think gonzalez still has questions to answer because of the nature of the knockout coming so early. that was not enough information to say how that fight would look in a return match

I knew Mosley wasnt gonna beat Forrest in a rematch and I didnt think he was gonna beat Wright the first time. Mosley is a smaller guy. Those guys are bigger, stronger, and technically better than Mosley. Mayorga was a different story. I wanted to bet on Mayorga KOing him the first time because I seen Forrest abandon his boxing and get into dogfights. I said if he did Mayorga may catch him. I was kicking myself when it happened. I thought for sure that he would lose a rematch to Forrest though. Forrest was the better fighter, but as Manny Steward said, he couldnt hold off Mayorga with the bad shoulder. Either case, a lot think Forrest won that fight, so that should go into the Controversial thread.

I think at some point in a 12 round fight Gonzalez gets to Mares again and puts some hurt on him.

Broner was winning some rounds, he got far behind. He lost about the first 4 rounds to Paulie...they just werent 10-8. His problem is comeback fighting. Getting too far behind. If he gets away from those punches this time and gets to Maidana's body, then it will be a different fight. I dont think he blows out Maidana, I think he can win a close fight. At this point, thats all he needs...is that win.
 

surv2syn

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i think forrest as good as he was mayorga was all wrong for what he was. the same was true for mosley against forrest and wright because he fought a better fight in those bounce back return fights but it was clear as day they were just all wrong for mosley. there was something just lacking on a basic level. the twelve rounds that maidana and broner fought i saw nothing that showed broner in any real position of power over maidana. he was in the fight but nothing showed he was at any point on his way to winning it. even when he would throw more than one shot at a time there was always the danger of maidana answering back and rocking or hurting broner at any given moment throughout the entire fight. that same statement cant be made for broner. think about that.

i think gonzalez still has questions to answer because of the nature of the knockout coming so early. that was not enough information to say how that fight would look in a return match

We have a problem with consistency. Some people thought there was enough information to back Gonzalez in the first fight. Some did. Dawson who has normally shown a durable chin gets sparked by one punch and no one thinks he can beat Stevenson. Mares gets KOed and its not enough information? Sounds like dismissing Gonzalez victory as a fluke.
 

LauderdaleBoss

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I think Mares beats Gonzalez in a rematch. Instead of boxing aggressively to set the tempo like he normally does, he let the chinny puncher get off first and dictate things. The thing is Johnny is such a powerful sharp puncher, that the first time he caught Mares (who has a good chin btw) he hurt him badly and Abner couldn't recover. He then jumped all over dude and it was finished before it really got started. I believe Mares can hurt Gonzales, it's just that he never got the chance to. shyt was like a street fight where the first guy who landed good basically won.

In essence the same thing happened in Maidana/Broner. The underdog went at the undefeated cat first and set the tone that dictated the fight. Just the difference is Broner took the power better than Mares did or Johnny is a better puncher than Maidana is. Either way them dudes landed heat first and it was downhill from there for Broner and Mares.

I've seen this shyt happen in the gym plenty of times during sparring sessions. The lesser talented guy goes after the better boxer early and doesn't allow him to get into his rhythm. Dude gets flustered because shyt is happening too fast too soon and he starts eating hard shots that make it difficult to turn things around and get composed.
 

SuikodenII

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I beg to differ. A lot of people were thinking that including some of us here in this thread. We were saying that Broner should do a return match straight away...then we heard initially there was no rematch clause.

I didnt see that Maidana was clearly the better fighter overall. He was the better WW that night and the better prepared. He bum-rushed Broner and he didnt know what to do. His style of defense also showed that he is gonna get knocked out by a better fighter. He cant just say "I am rematching Maidana" no. He has to be in excellent shape. Something he wasnt because we saw fatboy pics too close to fighting time. He has to make some adjustments and get some great sparring. He needs to seek technical advise. He has some work to do if he wants to pull this off. I do think he can do it though. @SuikodenII you my dude. so you tell me....Mares got blasted by Gonzalez, yet people here are picking Mares to win the rematch. Broner went 12 with Maidana and had his moments. After he warmed up he took Maidana's shots a lot better. Why are we getting lambasted here for thinking Broner can turn this around...yet I dont here people getting it when saying Mares is gonna win a rematch....which I dont think he will. Gonzalez has his number clearly I believe and right now at this moment, I think is the superior fighter given the style matchup. :manny:
Mares is younger, on the way up while Jhonny is looked at as more shop-worn, looking for a couple good fights and be out.

Also, Jhonny has an incredible history of being up in fights then getting KO'd. Israel Vazquez, Gerry Penalosa, Toshiaki Nishioka. 3 fights he was winning HANDILY. So people believe that if Mares could get past the early onslaught, he'd have a great chance at stopping Jhonny later on. Add on to the fact that Jhonny is desperately trying to move to 130, making 126 is hard for him at the moment. Mares is a mauler, and Jhonny couldn't take his shots if he wanted to, that's just hard-nosed fact.


HOWEVER, and this is something me and you will never see eye-to-eye on, the nature of the trainer. Clemente Medina is a great trainer in his own right, and he's had a lot of success with Mares, but Ignacio "Nacho" Beristain trains Jhonny and had trained Mares in the past. Nacho is one of the best trainers in the game right now and probably of all time, he studies each and every opponent and is usually dead on when discussing a fighter. He knew what Mares could and couldn't do and he's been with Jhonny for almost 5 years now (though he did work with him in the past, his father was always his head trainer). Beristain predicted Mares wouldn't last 6 rounds and guess what :youngsabo:



1. He fought at Jhonny's distance, Mares needs to be right in Jhonny's chest and back him up. Duck low, lead overhand right, and be quick with it, he has the physical tools to pull that off at least.
2. After the 1st knockdown, instead of holding till the bell rings, he fights back, bad move. That Mexican machismo :wow:

#2 can be corrected as long as he's smart enough to do so, #1 is a game plan error though whether it was too early to say he wasn't going to start applying pressure starting with round 2 remains to be seen.....
 

surv2syn

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HOWEVER, and this is something me and you will never see eye-to-eye on, the nature of the trainer. Clemente Medina is a great trainer in his own right, and he's had a lot of success with Mares, but Ignacio "Nacho" Beristain trains Jhonny and had trained Mares in the past. Nacho is one of the best trainers in the game right now and probably of all time, he studies each and every opponent and is usually dead on when discussing a fighter. He knew what Mares could and couldn't do and he's been with Jhonny for almost 5 years now (though he did work with him in the past, his father was always his head trainer). Beristain predicted Mares wouldn't last 6 rounds and guess what :youngsabo:

I think that you get the impression that I feel the trainer has minimal if any effect on the outcome of fights since I think that Broner can beat Maidana or that I think Maidana is overrated. Nothing is farther from the truth. I analyze trainers and game plans just like I do the fighters. Also, something that doesnt get mentioned much that I think is IMPERATIVE......sparring. If you cant execute in sparring and if you cant get timing down then likely you will have a hard time in the actual fight. Nacho Beristain is one of the GOAT trainers, I have mentioned that in the past. I just think he made some curious moves as a manager. Namely turning down the Pac rematch to fight Chris John for $25k.
 

surv2syn

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I think Mares beats Gonzalez in a rematch. Instead of boxing aggressively to set the tempo like he normally does, he let the chinny puncher get off first and dictate things. The thing is Johnny is such a powerful sharp puncher, that the first time he caught Mares (who has a good chin btw) he hurt him badly and Abner couldn't recover. He then jumped all over dude and it was finished before it really got started. I believe Mares can hurt Gonzales, it's just that he never got the chance to. shyt was like a street fight where the first guy who landed good basically won.

In essence the same thing happened in Maidana/Broner. The underdog went at the undefeated cat first and set the tone that dictated the fight. Just the difference is Broner took the power better than Mares did or Johnny is a better puncher than Maidana is. Either way them dudes landed heat first and it was downhill from there for Broner and Mares.

I've seen this shyt happen in the gym plenty of times during sparring sessions. The lesser talented guy goes after the better boxer early and doesn't allow him to get into his rhythm. Dude gets flustered because shyt is happening too fast too soon and he starts eating hard shots that make it difficult to turn things around and get composed.

this is why I think Broner can and will win rematch. I feel exactly like yall feel about Mares. but for some reason it isnt viewed the same way. I am even in the opinion that if Broner doesnt get buzzed early then he wins or draws in the first fight. Everything you say is true about rhythm and flustered....and also do not forget.....Broner was fat a few weeks before the fight and I know for a fact he cut weight. This led to him also going in the ring BONE DRY....which is another reason why he couldnt take the punch as well early as he did later.

sn: I also feel Dawson could beat Stevenson if his head is on straight and he does his homework and sparring.
 
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