Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

patscorpio

It's a movement
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
118,704
Reputation
11,525
Daps
245,866
Reppin
MA/CT/Nigeria #byrdgang #RingGangRadio
I think they are the same and there is no clear indication of who is better. Their fight was close. Berto is obviously not top shelf...but when you say Ortiz "faced" better competition by the same token, those 3 opponents proved that Ortiz was below that championship level as well. Couldnt beat Peterson, quit on Maidana, and I think the tell-tale for me was when he was looking gassed and trying to box with Campbell and couldnt get rid of him. Cambell was way shot by then. He damn near lost every fight from that point on.

to be fair breh..its only been this year that other cats besides robbie peden were able to get rid of campbell
 

SuikodenII

Where's Suikoden VI??????
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
13,630
Reputation
2,321
Daps
23,319

#5 ranked Cruiserweight Ola Afolabi vs Lukasz Janik

Lazy b*stard :pachaha:
 

surv2syn

The Culture
Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
11,997
Reputation
2,590
Daps
21,962
Reppin
NULL
Ortiz KO's him. You gotta have a chin to make him give up mentally. You gotta be able to take a beating really to make Ortiz get to that point

Both guys are great talents. I've always liked what Ortiz brought to the table a little more. Power in both hands, solid boxing ability, etc. It's a shame he can't keep it together.

OR not get hit. Khan has shown that ability with movement against Zab (and I dont think Ortiz is better than Zab at this stage, if anything they are even) and against Maidana. Now Khan got hit by Maidana but Marcos is a tough guy. I dont think Ortiz can go 8-10 rounds with Khan without having some serious confident boosters throughout the fight and still stay consistently focused. Like I said, its a toss up to me. I wouldnt be surprised either way. Khan aint got no chin but he has heart.
 

surv2syn

The Culture
Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
11,997
Reputation
2,590
Daps
21,962
Reppin
NULL
to be fair breh..its only been this year that other cats besides robbie peden were able to get rid of campbell

I would agree with you but Campbell's decline was rapid and overnight. After the Funeka fight he was shot. I think his decline began with Funeka. He had a lot of personal and financial issues and he wasnt in the gym regularly...so when he hit that age and had to struggle to make weight....he lost a lot of reflexes and his legs were gone. That was no more evident than in the Bradley fight. That fight showed how far Nate was gone.
 

surv2syn

The Culture
Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
11,997
Reputation
2,590
Daps
21,962
Reppin
NULL
to be fair breh..its only been this year that other cats besides robbie peden were able to get rid of campbell

what I am saying is...in that fight, Victor looked different. he shouldnt have been RUNNING from Nate in the late rounds but he was from what I recall. I just dont think Victor is a top level fighter. I think he couldve been at 140 but like I said....the Ortiz before Maidana was different than the one after that.
 

theflyest

Veteran
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
26,086
Reputation
1,365
Daps
66,061
Reppin
NULL
I think they are the same and there is no clear indication of who is better. Their fight was close. Berto is obviously not top shelf...but when you say Ortiz "faced" better competition by the same token, those 3 opponents proved that Ortiz was below that championship level as well. Couldnt beat Peterson, quit on Maidana, and I think the tell-tale for me was when he was looking gassed and trying to box with Campbell and couldnt get rid of him. Cambell was way shot by then. He damn near lost every fight from that point on.

Ortiz won the fight comfortably. It was very clear who was better in that fight. Ortiz is also the better boxing talent imo

Whether he won, lost, or had a draw, he still faced better competition than Berto prior to that fight.
Lamont can fight his ass off. So can Maidana. I have doubts Berto could beat either of those guys. The main reason I picked him to beat Berto was because he had experience facing better competition. It's part of your development as a fighter. If the fight got to a point where he had to dig deep, he's been there before, which is why I picked him to win. That is how I felt at that particular time.

When I make predictions for a fight, I'm very high on weighing in the type of competition the fighter has been fighting leading up to the fight
 

surv2syn

The Culture
Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
11,997
Reputation
2,590
Daps
21,962
Reppin
NULL
Anybody who saw Stevens fights against Findley and Brinkley had to have seen this coming. Props to Curtis though, he got mad heart.

And I too can't see Ward losing either. Not anytime soon at least.

Stevens only had a puncher's chance. He is a dangerous but very limited fighter. Stevens is one of those dynamic fighters who can usually crush lower level opposition. When he steps up in class though his limitations are glaring. I do feel he needs to stay at 160 though and he can have a decent career. If he goes back to 168 he's gonna get crushed by guys that may even be a step below his talent level.
 
Last edited:

surv2syn

The Culture
Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
11,997
Reputation
2,590
Daps
21,962
Reppin
NULL
Ortiz won the fight comfortably. It was very clear who was better in that fight. Ortiz is also the better boxing talent imo

Whether he won, lost, or had a draw, he still faced better competition than Berto prior to that fight.
Lamont can fight his ass off. So can Maidana. I have doubts Berto could beat either of those guys. The main reason I picked him to beat Berto was because he had experience facing better competition. It's part of your development as a fighter. If the fight got to a point where he had to dig deep, he's been there before, which is why I picked him to win. That is how I felt at that particular time.

When I make predictions for a fight, I'm very high on weighing in the type of competition the fighter has been fighting leading up to the fight

I feel you except I look at things differently. I go more on how they fared against said level of opposition. It sure wasnt clear to me that one fighter was better than the other, just that one game plan prevailed. Ortiz was on the canvas twice too. To me thats like choosing who is better between Rios and Alvarado. (I happen to think Rios is better but didnt fight smart in the last fight)

Ortiz was favored over Maidana and Peterson and didnt get the win in either. He was put in with Campbell to look spectacular and blow out Campbell because Nate had looked soooooo shot against Bradley. That fight didnt prove that Campbell wasnt shot though....only that Victor lacked the confidence he once had before Maidana snatched his soul.
 
Last edited:

theflyest

Veteran
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
26,086
Reputation
1,365
Daps
66,061
Reppin
NULL
I feel you except I look at things differently. Ortiz was favored over Maidana and Peterson and didnt get the win in either. He was put in with Campbell to look spectacular and blow out Campbell because Nate had looked soooooo shot against Bradley. That fight didnt prove that Campbell wasnt shot though....only that Victor lacked the confidence he once had before Maidana snatched his soul.

We'll agree to disagree. I'm looking at it from the perspective that he gained very valuable experience in those fights to carry into future fights while your looking at it from the perspective that he didn't perform as expected.

I was familiar with guys like Maidana & Peterson prior to the Ortiz fights, I really don't go by who the "favored" guy is. I actually predicted Peterson to beat Ortiz at that time. Campbell was old as hell & past his prime, but anytime you beat a former crafty champ it's good work for a fighter. GBP aren't really matchmakers like a TR, so there fighters aren't gonna really look great at times when they are developing.
 

Ari Gold Bawse

The Bawse of all Bosses
Supporter
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
14,862
Reputation
2,265
Daps
27,694
Reppin
London
1456557_422760674491276_459578385_n.jpg


:dead:
 

surv2syn

The Culture
Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
11,997
Reputation
2,590
Daps
21,962
Reppin
NULL
We'll agree to disagree. I'm looking at it from the perspective that he gained very valuable experience in those fights to carry into future fights while your looking at it from the perspective that he didn't perform as expected.

I was familiar with guys like Maidana & Peterson prior to the Ortiz fights, I really don't go by who the "favored" guy is. I actually predicted Peterson to beat Ortiz at that time. Campbell was old as hell & past his prime, but anytime you beat a former crafty champ it's good work for a fighter. GBP aren't really matchmakers like a TR, so there fighters aren't gonna really look great at times when they are developing.

I predicted Peterson to beat Ortiz too...but since then, I think I had really overrated Peterson. Not that he is not a good fighter but he has a style that is hard to win with. He is a pressure fighter with not a great deal of power (even though he can hurt you to the body) and a shaky chin. Personally, I just saw pre-Maidana (no pun) Victor having a totally different demeanor. Now of course, it couldve been that we found out more about him once he stepped up in class. Good point about GBP not being as good a matchmaker as TR.
 

surv2syn

The Culture
Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
11,997
Reputation
2,590
Daps
21,962
Reppin
NULL
That GGG jab was the major difference well that and that footwork :whew: Im disappointed but Stevens still comported himself well for a fighter ranked so far down in the division against the best in the division. I wouldnt mind seeing them fight again. Not an immediate rematch but give Stevens a few more fights against some quality guys too see if he can grow a bit more.

I dont think at this stage he can change enough to beat GGG. He doesnt move well enough laterally, cant fight backing up, doesnt move his head enough, and hands dont stay busy enough. That said...dont be surprised if Stevens picks up a title and they do rematch. Its not totally unlikely. Stevens is a very dangerous fighter, just a limited one.
 
Top