The Official 2013 NBA Draft Talk Thread

[KingpinOG]

They didn't desperately try to trade that pick, their asking price for this years pick was unrealistic, they were essentially asking for Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge for it . They couldn't trade down because Grant was treating the pick like Wiggins, Randle or Parker were potential number 1s, he was asking way too much for it in return.
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You said that the Cavs should have traded down a few slots and picked Bennett later. No team in the top 6 or 7 was going to trade anything of value to move up to the top of this draft. You can't wish trades into existence. The top 6 or so players were all roughly the same value and the Cavs just took the guy they had rated best on their board.

Give me a break, you argued that there was no need to take Drummond because they had Varejao. Now that they took a PF, when they already have a PF, you're on some "Take the best player available!". So which is it dude, if it were simply about taking best player available regardless of who you already have McLemore would have been the pick. Also, Bennett is not a 3, if he loses weight and tries to play the 3 what makes him what he is will go out the window, his strength is being an undersized 4 that is quick & strong enough to take taller players off the dribble and cause a mismatch.

I don't think I said that the Cavs didn't need Drummond because they had Varajao. I think I said they didn't take him because he was too big of a risk and the Cavs needed more of a sure thing. Drummond was awful at UCONN and no one could reasonably say he was the best available player when the Cavs picked. There is a reason EIGHT different teams passed on him in the draft. Yes Drummond proved after his rookie year in the NBA that he should have gone a lot higher. But hindsight is always 20/20. This is a case of a boom or bust pick now looking like a break out.

Both were reaches, and all you need to know about Thompson is that they took a power forward this year. Jonas will be better than Thompson, and Drummond will be or is already better than Waiters, having that frontcourt would have been an absolute nightmare for teams in the future because Drummond is athletic enough to defend stretch 4s.

And with both of those guys being bigs with slow development processes, you would have been able to get the SG or SF this year, whether it was McLemore or Porter. The Cavs have shown no foresight when it comes to drafting, they STILL need a center and passed on two guys that will probably be vying for best center in the league title in 3-5 years.

How is Thompson a reach when he has out produced virtually every player drafted after him? I wanted the Cavs to take Valanciunas over Thompson before the draft and I would probably take Valanciunas over him now. But to act like he is head and shoulders above Thompson is a bit presumptuous. You have nothing to base that on this far in their careers. Same thing with Waiters who made the All Rookie First team.

We are talking about players who are 19, 20, 21, etc. Nobody knows for sure how any of the players will ultimately turn out. But to write off guys like Waiters and Thompson as reaches is just not true compared to almost all the players that went after them. Drummond is really the only guy that is head and shoulders ahead of either of them.

 

[Miggs]

Anthony Bennett will shine and Victor Oladipo will be a bust. I guarantee it.

Real talk,not because hes from my hometown,i really like his game and i think hes got the most upside in this draft and will win ROY and shut up alot of ppl who gawkin at him being taken 1st...Cleveland had the best draft by sifting thru these garbage analysts and mocks and taking what i think will be the best player...

 

[Malta]

You said that the Cavs should have traded down a few slots and picked Bennett later. No team in the top 6 or 7 was going to trade anything of value to move up to the top of this draft. You can't wish trades into existence. The top 6 or so players were all roughly the same value and the Cavs just took the guy they had rated best on their board.

Nah, the Wizards wanted Otto, could have taken him first and then traded down and at least got something else to go along with Bennett. But, instead in typical stupid fashion they overreach yet again, hence all the surprise from everyone in attendance. Bennett was expected to go in the 6-10 range, you don't think the Pistons would have given up something to get the first pick? The Wolves were trading all night, probably could have got their pick AND Derrick Williams, yet another undersized PF. The issue was Grant was asking for the world for the first pick, he was treating it as though there was a bonafide superstar player.

I don't think I said that the Cavs didn't need Drummond because they had Varajao. I think I said they didn't take him because he was too big of a risk and the Cavs needed more of a sure thing. Drummond was awful at UCONN and no one could reasonably say he was the best available player when the Cavs picked. There is a reason EIGHT different teams passed on him in the draft. Yes Drummond proved after his rookie year in the NBA that he should have gone a lot higher. But hindsight is always 20/20. This is a case of a boom or bust pick now looking like a break out.

I'm pretty sure you said they had Varejao so there would be no need for Drummond I was saying he was the best player available, and he had the highest potential of anyone in the draft even before the draft. And Drummond wasn't awful, his numbers stack up extremely well vs other freshmen centers from the past.

How is Thompson a reach when he has out produced virtually every player drafted after him? I wanted the Cavs to take Valanciunas over Thompson before the draft and I would probably take Valanciunas over him now. But to act like he is head and shoulders above Thompson is a bit presumptuous. You have nothing to base that on this far in their careers. Same thing with Waiters who made the All Rookie First team.

Thompson was a reach because he was supposed to go 8-12 range, and if he was producing so well why then were the Cavs offering him up in damn near every trade under the sun prior to this draft? Why then did they draft a PF that can score? They don't have half as much faith in him long term as they make it seem. Like someone else pointed out, Landry Fields made all rookie first time, and so did these guys -

Al Thorton
Jorge Garbajosa
Randy Foye
Super Cool Beas
Channing Frye
Charlie V
Darren Collison
Taj Gibson
Gary Neal
Brandon Knight

What's your point?

We are talking about players who are 19, 20, 21, etc. Nobody knows for sure how any of the players will ultimately turn out. But to write off guys like Waiters and Thompson as reaches is just not true compared to almost all the players that went after them. Drummond is really the only guy that is head and shoulders ahead of either of them.

As long as he stays healthy Jonas will end up better, he finishes around the rim better than Thompson, he defends the paint better, and he can score in the post on his own. Drummond right now is already a double double big man, even if he doesn't develop beyond what he is today his impact on defense will overshadow pretty much anything Waiters can bring to the table if he's not a all-star or better level SG. I'm not writing them off as reaches, they were reaches, Thompson was offered up in two different trades, both guys were. You don't hear the Pistons or Raptors calling people up and offering Jonas / Drummond up, do you?

 

[I.V.]

Seeing Drummond snatch rebounds by the throat like they just told him he's too big to ride the spinning teacups is

 

[Kang Deezy]

Seeing Drummond snatch rebounds by the throat like they just told him he's too big to ride the spinning teacups is

But like we've talked about, he was very passive in college... He's been a polar opposite in the nba, nobody anticipated that

 

[Wise]

The Cavs desperately tried to trade their pick but no team was willing to trade up in this garbage draft. You can't just wish a trade into existence, you have to have a willing partner.

Personally I wanted McLemore at #1 but I am willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt. Lots of teams ended up passing on guys like McLemore and Noel so obviously there were big question marks on them. Yes the Cavs already have Thompson but I think you need to take the best player on your board regardless of position when you have a #1 pick.

And another thing, Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters weren't bad picks. For the most part they are outplaying all the players drafted after them with one or two exceptions.

Tristan Thompson is good and will get better and I believe Dion Waiters surprised a lot of people, he definitely surprised me. His decision making is iffy but it will only get better. I remember in training camp last year there were reports he was overweight and wasn't living up to expectations but he definitely turned that around. He was compared then to D-Wade which is a reach but I did see flashes of that this year the way he cut through defenders just like him. He's a pretty good ballhandler as well. I didn't really see Beal that much this year so maybe you can fill me on him and let me know who is the better one at the moment.

Cavs will probably regret not taking Valanciunas in a year or 2 over Thompson but back to back years they went with gutsy picks with Waiters and Bennett. Bennett is said to have the most NBA ready body at the moment (the 18 lbs he recently gained can be easily trimmed). They could play small ball like the Heat and have him play the 4 and Tristan the 5, could go 4 and 3. They wanted to trade Varejao last year so who knows. But they got a very good core. In my opinion I don't see the last 3 seeds in the East making the playoffs this year (Atlanta, Boston and Milwaukee). I never have been a fan of the Hawks and with Smith gone they're toast. Boston, we already know the deal and the Bucks with Ellis gone its 50/50 with Jennings. Cavs will easily take a spot.

This is a great video of the Toronto Raptors in the 2011 draft. Shows how every team applauded them when they took JV. They said they were surprised Cleveland passed up on him but most likely cause he had to stay in Europe one more year. I recall Colangelo saying he's never had more trade offers for any player ever than Valanciunas (I guess he did one thing right). Raptors fans were mad as hell when they picked JV, arguing about another European. They wanted Brandon Knight or Kemba lol.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQZ7V9yybb0"]Toronto Raptors - Behind the 2011 NBA Draft - YouTube[/ame]

Yeah I'm not sure anyone knows exactly what the plan is. I don't hate Waiters but it will take me a while to forgot about drafting him over Drummond, especially after seeing Drummond in person.

You have to remember aside from the Cavs, 8 other teams passed up on him. I believe he will leave as a top 3-5 player from the draft when all said and done but the man's FT% is in the the 30s.

The Pistons have a very good front court for the future. Jose will do great with them in the pick and roll but they need wings and should start moving Knight. I don't know if KCP will make that much of an impact but the Wolves were dying to get him if they couldn't get Oladipo.

On a side note, Noel and McLemore were steals. Phoenix shoulda grabbed Ben, woulda been great beside Dragic. Aaron Rodgers and Lebron themselves were surprised Ben went that low.

 

[Loose]

The more i watch and read up on roberson the more i love this fukking guy. Makes sense why the spurs were trying to draft him

 

[Hahahaha]

It's a shame a team like Utah can't attract good players in FA. Their front office always seem to make good decisions

 

[Wacky D]

Nah, the Wizards wanted Otto, could have taken him first and then traded down and at least got something else to go along with Bennett. But, instead in typical stupid fashion they overreach yet again, hence all the surprise from everyone in attendance. Bennett was expected to go in the 6-10 range, you don't think the Pistons would have given up something to get the first pick? The Wolves were trading all night, probably could have got their pick AND Derrick Williams, yet another undersized PF. The issue was Grant was asking for the world for the first pick, he was treating it as though there was a bonafide superstar player.

Alonzo gee is better & much cheaper than derrick Williams.

Bennett wasn't going to fall past 4th. that's evidenced by the bobcats pulling zeller into the top 5 when he wasn't even projected to be top 10 in most mocks. sure, there were rumblings of bennett falling out of the top 5, but that ended up being noel & mcclemore.

 

[BigE's Taper Fade]

Gotta Disagree with @Malta ...In this draft, Bennett is actually a great pick

6'8, good size and strength real sturdy base, extremely skilled...he's a bigger antoine walker right now (which is not a bad pickup at all).. and I seen the boy play in person,he's a fiery competitor at ayoung age, he's not going to back down from anyone..

That core of Kyrie, Waiters, Thompson and Bennett is Damn Good....in fact it might be 6-7 seed good in this year's east

 

[KingpinOG]

Nah, the Wizards wanted Otto, could have taken him first and then traded down and at least got something else to go along with Bennett. But, instead in typical stupid fashion they overreach yet again, hence all the surprise from everyone in attendance. Bennett was expected to something to get the first pick? The Wolves were trading all night, probably go in the 6-10 range, you don't think the Pistons would have given up could have got their pick AND Derrick Williams, yet another undersized PF. The issue was Grant was asking for the world for the first pick, he was treating it as though there was a bonafide superstar player.

You always pull these trade scenarios out of your ass without anything to base them on. Washington would have traded up to take Otto Porter? How do you know that? What would they have traded? They sure as hell weren't trading a first round pick, and second round picks are worthless. Bennett would have been there at the Pistons pick? Says who? Again, you have to be realistic. No one was trading anything of substance in this garbage draft. The Cavs just stayed where they were and took the best guy on their board.

You keep talking about teams overreaching in the draft. Based on what? Chad Ford? Chris Mannix? What the hell do those guys know? So what if they said Anthony Bennett would go #7 ? They also said Nerlens Noel would go #1and Cody Zeller would go #10 . They don't know shyt. You need to stop putting value on players based upon what mock drafts say.

I'm pretty sure you said they had Varejao so there would be no need for Drummond I was saying he was the best player available, and he had the highest potential of anyone in the draft even before the draft. And Drummond wasn't awful, his numbers stack up extremely well vs other freshmen centers from the past.

That is a great call by you then, and looking back Drummond should have gone a lot higher. But coming out of college there were a TON of question marks about Drummond. There is a reason that EIGHT teams passed on him.... people questioned his work ethic, dedication, motor, etc. He was one of the biggest boom or bust picks to come out in a long time and in this case he looks like he will probably be a boom.

Thompson was a reach because he was supposed to go 8-12 range, and if he was producing so well why then were the Cavs offering him up in damn near every trade under the sun prior to this draft? Why then did they draft a PF that can score? They don't have half as much faith in him long term as they make it seem. Like someone else pointed out, Landry Fields made all rookie first time, and so did these guys -

Al Thorton
Jorge Garbajosa
Randy Foye
Super Cool Beas
Channing Frye
Charlie V
Darren Collison
Taj Gibson
Gary Neal
Brandon Knight

What's your point?

Thompson was supposed to go between 8-12? Again....says who? Stop putting so much faith in mock drafts that are proven to be completely wrong year after year.

The Cavs didn't offer Thompson up in damn near every trade under the sun. They offered him up for two veteran All Stars in Kevin Love and Lamarcus Aldridge. They offered Thompson for those guys because both of them are better players. That doesn't make Thompson a reach though. The Cavs didn't pass up All Star big men to draft Thompson. They passed up Jonas Valancuinas, Jan Vesely, Bismock Biyombo, Jimmer Fredette, Brandon Knight, etc. Thompson is better than all those guys with the possible exception of Valancuinas.

When a player is better than almost every player that gets drafted after him, then that player was not a reach.

 

[#1 pick]

kabongo is a excellent pickup

Just five posts before this one, you called him a scrub and will have to struggle to make a roster.

I like Kabongo but he reminded me of how raw Rondo was when left Kentucky. Kabongo might be even more raw then that but I see similarities. But got major flaws but both got major talent.

 

[FreedS[ohh]lave]

Cavs make "safe" picks which will make you a middle of the road playoff team at best

 

[BigE's Taper Fade]

Cavs make "safe" picks which will make you a middle of the road playoff team at best

Kyrie was A safe pick and he's going to be a superstar.

When you're drafting, theres no such thing as a safe and unsafe pick. You have your board based on what your talent evaluators gave you, and you draft the best player that suits your perceived team needs.

The Cavs have done that, and they are on the rise because of it.

 

[KingpinOG]

Cavs make "safe" picks which will make you a middle of the road playoff team at best

Dion Waiters wasn't a safe pick. Someone like Thomas Robinson or Harrison Barnes would have been.