The meaning(lessness) of Westbrook's triple-doubles

[sicksoulja]

Harden averages 2 less rebounds and will end the season with roughly 10 more wins

He's on a different team different situation Harden is doing his thing. So that's what this is about you don't want Westbrook to Win MVP so you spend hours creating a post slandering the man. Get a life breh, I mean it's cool to debate post in shyt but that shyt u did was excessive.

One guy is averaging a triple fukkin double instead of enjoying it you and others act like fags. Enjoy the game man I have never heard the term uncontested rebound until Westbrook start bagging all these triple doubles. People just love to hate the guy used him as a scape goat for all these years even though he was the best player on that Oklahoma Championship lost team, Durant came up small and the beard was one of the worst players on the court.

I have heard the guy shoot to much, now it's he's passing to much and force passing now its uncontested rebounds it's ridiculous, let's not lead the fast break and kick it out to open players or draw fouls let's just leave the rebounds uncontested don't grab it just let the ball hit the ground and bounce until it comes to a stop.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Honestly, for all the nikkas that try to take away the relevance of a player averaging a triple double for a season, would y'all be willing to straight up say triple doubles in general aren't all that important/impressive? I'd at least respect someone that said that.)

I've been of this opinion for a while now - at least since 2010 (getting rid of the box score altogether). We've become too reliant upon the traditional box score when evaluating player performances, instead of actually discussing the actual performance, which you don't even need any numbers for (in general of course). We view, judge and measure the game through that very lens, and we don't even know it.

Go the baseball advanced metric route and marganilize a star getting a triple crown in favor of some random acronym you think better represents production.

Why does everyone think that every stat outside the t-boxscore has to be one of those "random acronyms"? You do realize a certain amount of those acronyms' formulas are built on what happens in the box score, right? There's plenty of other stats: shooting %s on spots/drives, %s of how often a defender keeps his opposite from diriving into the paint, %s of how often a perimeter defender navigates around a screen, how many shots a rim protector alters in the paint, what DFG% a rim protector holds opponents to in the paint.

There's plenty of stats out there that actually measure shyt properly outside of what's recorded in the box score. As fans we should embrace all this information to get a better understanding of how the game is played and won, rather than use an archaic system that doesn't begin to explain actual impact in a game..

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Westbrook is a amazing player having an amazing season, the problem is that people put to much emphasis on these triple-doubles, and the meaningless stats that have little to no impact on the grand scheme of the game. Saying Westbrook deserves the MVP because he snags a couple more uncontested rebounds is a disservice to his play this season.

Yeah he does chase stats here and there but the media, fans, etc cause this because it makes headlines everytime he gets a triple double even though uncontested rebound 7 or fast break dump off assist for number 9 had no impact on the game at all. What should be looked at is what caused the miss for that rebound number 7, or what caused the fast break for assist number 9. This will never happen though because the casual fan and the media don't find the most basic of advanced statistics appealing to analyze until ESPN starts shoving it down people's throats.

Edit: it makes you think, what if the traditional box score replaced assists and rebounds with different stats like Offensive Rating and Defensive Rating. A triple double meaning a players offensive rating is in triple digits and their defensive rating is in double digits would mean a lot more than what a triple double is now.

This sounds very familiar.

 

[Donald Trumps Twitter]

Long read don't curr

 

[Donald Trumps Twitter]

This sounds very familiar.

What would the advanced analytics triple double be?

Per/ TS/ EFF

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

What would the advanced analytics triple double be?

Per/ TS/ EFF

Pretend the box score doesn't exist for a second, now list for me 10 areas that YOU believe have the most impact on the game (and try and not be too general - instead of points per game, list something like 'points created for self in half-court situations').

 

[Tha Gawd Amen]

This sounds very familiar.

Jacked the box score idea from you the corny triple double thing in there is

 

[dem bath salts]

You have an agenda but your point stands.
It makes what russ is doing a little less admirable. But just a little. Still great effort and if I'm honest, I still don't give a fukk and I continue to him.

 

[South Paw]

just more proof that westbrook is a stat stuffer that dont make his teammates better

 

[Donald Trumps Twitter]

Pretend the box score doesn't exist for a second, now list for me 10 areas that YOU believe have the most impact on the game (and try and not be too general - instead of points per game, list something like 'points created for self in half-court situations').

Offensive mental awareness
Defensive mental awareness
Resiliency against pressure
# of open looks created for teammates
Loose balls fought for/ won
unassisted points scored
Balls tipped / plays broken up
FG % against tough defense
FG % against double teams
Fastbreak points accounted for (assisted on or scored)

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Let's see, let's run down your list on players you've tried to marginalize to protect Bron:
MJ
Bird
Wilt
Kobe
Westbrook

I'm not even a Westbrook fan, but you're outta control. What's wrong with you?

Seems like @The Dankster is The Boy Who Cried ‘Wolf. But in all seriousness, regardless of whether or not he has an agenda here to protect Bron, it doesn't make him wrong (or any less right). This all really speaks to a higher point, past any historical string, what purpose does the traditional box score truly serve? We all know the flesh of basketball goes deeper than the box score, so why can't we at the very least start measuring/evaluating what actually has impact in the game? Which folds back into this argument and Westbrook's triple doubles, the point shouldn't be whether he's padding his stats or not, the point should be do a majority of those uncontested rebounds he grabs have any notable impact on the game? Of course they don't. - they're a near-meaningless action. Than why are we valuing them as highly as we do, all because they happen to be in the box score? Why are we valuing those particular rebounds over a defender shadowing a ball-handler for an entire possession (leading to a forced missed shot or an errant pass)?

We've got the game fukked up, and it's half the reason why there's so many arguments not only on this board, but just in general, because folk don't understand (or should I say don't want to understand) actual impact.

 

[obarth]

I've been of this opinion for a while now - at least since 2010 (getting rid of the box score altogether). We've become too reliant upon the traditional box score when evaluating player performances, instead of actually discussing the actual performance, which you don't even need any numbers for (in general of course). We view, judge and measure the game through that very lens, and we don't even know it.



Why does everyone think that every stat outside the t-boxscore has to be one of those "random acronyms"? You do realize a certain amount of those acronyms' formulas are built on what happens in the box score, right? There's plenty of other stats: shooting %s on spots/drives, %s of how often a defender keeps his opposite from diriving into the paint, %s of how often a perimeter defender navigates around a screen, how many shots a rim protector alters in the paint, what DFG% a rim protector holds opponents to in the paint.

There's plenty of stats out there that actually measure shyt properly outside of what's recorded in the box score. As fans we should embrace all this information to get a better understanding of how the game is played and won, rather than use an archaic system that doesn't begin to explain actual impact in a game..

Breh, I support the advancement of advanced metrics but my disdain for it comes down to the use of it the way I explained in my previous post. You got dudes out here that don't know the game that will try to debate you only using PER.

 

[Lil Bape the PostGod]

aren't they like 24-6 when he gets these triple doubles or some shyt?

he could stat stuff all night no homo...if that's gonna be the outcome

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Offensive mental awareness
Defensive mental awareness
Resiliency against pressure
# of open looks created for teammates
Loose balls fought for/ won
unassisted points scored
Balls tipped / plays broken up
FG % against tough defense
FG % against double teams
Fastbreak points accounted for (assisted on or scored)

Hallelujah.

Now, I'm not telling you to start recording each player's stats in accordance to those areas, because obviously that's impractical. But would you be open to the idea of COMPLETELY disregarding every single stat in the box score (for players) and strictly base your view of the game on those areas, if there were stats for those, or even if there weren't any stats for those?

And the next time somebody asks you how well a player performed or if you're arguing for who's a better player, you can use this as your foundation, while providing specific stats (if possible) that can accompany this?

 

[DonKnock]

He's on a different team different situation Harden is doing his thing. So that's what this is about you don't want Westbrook to Win MVP so you spend hours creating a post slandering the man. Get a life breh, I mean it's cool to debate post in shyt but that shyt u did was excessive.

One guy is averaging a triple fukkin double instead of enjoying it you and others act like fags. Enjoy the game man I have never heard the term uncontested rebound until Westbrook start bagging all these triple doubles. People just love to hate the guy used him as a scape goat for all these years even though he was the best player on that Oklahoma Championship lost team, Durant came up small and the beard was one of the worst players on the court.

I have heard the guy shoot to much, now it's he's passing to much and force passing now its uncontested rebounds it's ridiculous, let's not lead the fast break and kick it out to open players or draw fouls let's just leave the rebounds uncontested don't grab it just let the ball hit the ground and bounce until it comes to a stop.

Hours?

That was my first post in this thread.

I'm not the OP