The meaning(lessness) of Westbrook's triple-doubles

[FTBS]

***Randomness alert***

This thread brought to mind a ORL/DET game from like 20 years ago when Darrell Armstrong was one rebound short of a triple double and...damn I forgot exactly what he did but he did some fukk shyt to ensure he got a triple double late in a game that was over. Doug Collins was MAD AS fukk!!! Pulled his guys off the floor and everything.

Carry on.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

There are people who try to say, “despite all that, the proof is in the results. When Westbrook racks up stats, the Thunder win games.” That’s a confusion of cause and effect. The Thunder don’t get wins because Westbrook chased stats that night – Westbrook chases stats every night. Russ chasing triple-doubles in the losses just as much as in the wins.

Let me repeat this for the slow people who know nothing about basketball beyond reading the box score and, despite my warning, will regurgitate off their favorite cable channel, "BUT WESTBROOK WINS 77% OF HIS GAMES WHEN HE HAS A TRIPLE-DOUBLE."

Yes, and the sun is shining 100% of the time there's a rainbow. But rainbows don't cause sunshine.

Westbrook finds it easier to get a triple-double when the Thunder are winning the game for 3 reasons:

* Rebounds are much easier to get when your opponent is missing shots. Westbrook is actually only averaging 1.7 offensive boards in his wins, he actually gets MORE offensive boards in his losses. But he averages 9.7 defensive boards/game in wins, compared to only 7.5 defensive boards/game in losses. Why? Because when the other team is losing, and missing a lot of shots, it's easier to get rebounds. Thunder opponents are averaging 50% from the field when they beat the Thunder, and only 43% from the field when they lose to the Thunder. THAT is why there are more rebounds available in wins. Westbrook gets two more boards a game in wins, and thus gets more triple-doubles, because the opponents were missing more shots that game. Westbrook can't get boards in the losses because the other team is making its shots.

* Assists are easier to get when your teammates make more shots. Russ is making the same number of shots in wins and losses, but Russ's teammates are making FIVE more shots in the wins than in the losses. Those extra made shots also make Westbrook more likely to get his 10 assists. They aren't winning because Westbrook is getting a triple double, they're winning because they're MAKING SHOTS...and that happens to make it easier for Westbrook to pad out his triple-double.

* The Thunder have 7 blowout losses where Russ has played 30 or fewer minutes. He couldn't get a triple-double in any of those games because he sat too early due to the blowout.

(I put all that shyt in large font because I know the rock-brains are still going to regurgitate the same mindless statistical argument, as if they know nothing about basketball other than what's in the box score, unless I make it really obvious to them.)

I say all that shyt in the OP, and still....

Ain't reading all that shyt. The only Stat that matters is wins and losses. They win a very percentage of games when he gets them, they generally lose when he doesnt.

The win-loss stats say they mean a lot...

 

[Erratic415]

I think it was Anthony Bowie.

Collins wouldn't shake hands with him afterwards.

***Randomness alert***

This thread brought to mind a ORL/DET game from like 20 years ago when Darrell Armstrong was one rebound short of a triple double and...damn I forgot exactly what he did but he did some fukk shyt to ensure he got a triple double late in a game that was over. Doug Collins was MAD AS fukk!!! Pulled his guys off the floor and everything.

Carry on.

 

[Goatpoacher]

As much as I like westbrook, this is the type of poor decision making that's bothered me for year. This year, he figures he has nothing to lose so he's doing it way too often. It's a bad idea to develop such bad habits.

 

[Goatpoacher]

***Randomness alert***

This thread brought to mind a ORL/DET game from like 20 years ago when Darrell Armstrong was one rebound short of a triple double and...damn I forgot exactly what he did but he did some fukk shyt to ensure he got a triple double late in a game that was over. Doug Collins was MAD AS fukk!!! Pulled his guys off the floor and everything.

Carry on.

Nothing's worse than Ricky Davis missing a shot on his OWN backboard trying to get a triple double.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

oladipo led the play he gave it back to him like every nba fastbreak where your teammate works on defense.

Uh, no, usually when a player is open going to the hoop, the guy who worked on defense passes to the guy with the open layup/dunk. The only reason they did a give-and-go (and a slightly dangerous one seeing where the defense was) was because Westbrook stopped going to the hoop and waited where he could get the assist instead.

westbrooks drb% has been over 13 since 2013 which is better than John walls current. keep reaching . please show facts that westbrooks jump in 13 was due soley to uncontested rebounds i need stats and evidence. thanks

NBA.com/Stats | Players Rebounding

Back in 2014, Westbrook averaging only 4.2 uncontested rebounds a game. Now he averaging 8.6, about 4.3 more. But his total rebounds have only gone up 4.8 more.

The amount of salt being generated toward Russ averaging a triple double and doing it while winning games he "shouldn't be able to"

It was all good at the beginning/mid way through the season cuz they didn't think he'd keep up the pace

Now that they damn near 70 games deep and he still is while climbing up the standings got nikkaz writing articles about fraudulent stats

It's a game fellas, just have fun watching it.

He ain't winning no more games than he was expected to. Everyone and their mama had the Thunder going to the playoffs as the 6-seed this year...and here they are as the six seed.

And people have been noting his stat padding since the triple-double streak started. You ain't paid attention? Don'tKnock was talking about uncontested rebounds back in December, and it's been elsewhere too. Hell, people been complaining about Russ's stat-padding for years.

it isnt evidence, his list of evidence is showing when he got some of his triple doubles. Lord forbid Westbrook get a triple double in the 4th.

Not to mention his starting evidence is a video from 6 years ago when Westbrook was 22 and probably just wanting one of his first triple doubles, like many players do when they get their first. Green used to stay out in blowout games last year to get his.

And then the other videos are just he's all posted before. He literally just rehashed shyt he's already said before.

I love how one guy rips on me by trying to say that I'm just not saying anything new and this was all said before, and another guy rips on me saying that this is all new and no one was saying it before.



And the starting video isn't evidence, it's narrative. By showing a video of Westbrook doing something six years ago, then doing the exact same thing last week, I'm pointing out that this ain't no new trend but in his nature. I showed a LOT more videos of him doing other things, but you ain't commenting on them.

If players could effortlessly stat pad their way to average a 30 point triple double they would. You're doing too much.

Of course it ain't effortless. He's working hard as hell and he's a great player. There's only 4-5 players in the NBA who could do this. But they don't, because:

A) Getting the entire team to change their rebounding strategy to pad one player's boards is not great for team chemistry

B) Did you not see how Westbrook is just giving away his defense to do this? That hurts his team.

C) Chasing assists based on whether you've got 10 or not is, again, not great for the team.




p.s. - I've got FOUR negs now for writing a post of facts and evidence about Westbrook. People up in their feelings about this pretty boy.

 

[Loose]

Uh, no, usually when a player is open going to the hoop, the guy who worked on defense passes to the guy with the open layup/dunk. The only reason they did a give-and-go (and a slightly dangerous one seeing where the defense was) was because Westbrook stopped going to the hoop and waited where he could get the assist instead.






NBA.com/Stats | Players Rebounding

Back in 2014, Westbrook averaging only 4.2 uncontested rebounds a game. Now he averaging 8.6, about 4.3 more. But his total rebounds have only gone up 4.8 more.






He ain't winning no more games than he was expected to. Everyone and their mama had the Thunder going to the playoffs as the 6-seed this year...and here they are as the six seed.

And people have been noting his stat padding since the triple-double streak started. You ain't paid attention? Don'tKnock was talking about uncontested rebounds back in December, and it's been elsewhere too. Hell, people been complaining about Russ's stat-padding for years.






I love how one guy rips on me by trying to say that I'm just not saying anything new and this was all said before, and another guy rips on me saying that this is all new and no one was saying it before.



And the starting video isn't evidence, it's narrative. By showing a video of Westbrook doing something six years ago, then doing the exact same thing last week, I'm pointing out that this ain't no new trend but in his nature. I showed a LOT more videos of him doing other things, but you ain't commenting on them.








Of course it ain't effortless. He's working hard as hell and he's a great player. There's only 4-5 players in the NBA who could do this. But they don't, because:

A) Getting the entire team to change their rebounding strategy to pad one player's boards is not great for team chemistry

B) Did you not see how Westbrook is just giving away his defense to do this? That hurts his team.

C) Chasing assists based on whether you've got 10 or not is, again, not great for the team.




p.s. - I've got FOUR negs now for writing a post of facts and evidence about Westbrook. People up in their feelings about this pretty boy.

uncontested rebounds =/= stealing rebounds. some of the best rebounders in the league eat off of uncontested defensive boards because teams get back on defense instead of hitting offensive boards once sgsin i need evidence thst russ has been STEALING 5+ rebounds since 2013

 

[PortCityProphet]

I've never seen people try so hard to down play and discredit triple doubles like some of you do with Westbrook. It's pathetic on yalls part. You guys make it seem like he's the only guy whoever got an uncontested rebound or made a late pass at the end of the game. He's not pulling Ricky Davises. Everything was good with triple doubles until this year when he started dropping em once a week. What he's doing is amazing, stop hating and being a bytchass fukkers. Dude hustles nonstop and does everything he has to. If more players had his ability plus his motor the league would be a lot better.

 

[delta]

OP, reddit beat you to this





Basically he's playing 2k out here. Not even guarding people no more. This was 2 months ago but DeAndre Jordan had contested more 3s than Westbrook

I can't respect the hate, but I can understand it.

nikkaz trying to turn bball into baseball nah

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

p.s. - I've got FOUR negs now for writing a post of facts and evidence about Westbrook. People up in their feelings about this pretty boy.

I already explained why. These threads are petty and serve no purpose. I dont know why you're looking for props for regurgitating contrarian reddit takes.

 

[Bledswole]

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

The amount of salt being generated toward Russ averaging a triple double and doing it while winning games he "shouldn't be able to"

It was all good at the beginning/mid way through the season cuz they didn't think he'd keep up the pace

Now that they damn near 70 games deep and he still is while climbing up the standings got nikkaz writing articles about fraudulent stats

It's a game fellas, just have fun watching it.

It straight up bytchassnikkashyt

 

[Gangstar8]

I see no problem with bigs letting him take the rebounds when there is no opponent around

 

[Dr. Hibbert's Revenge]

don't y'all get tired of debating this shyt? every fukkin day

 

[KOBE]

OP, reddit beat you to this





Basically he's playing 2k out here. Not even guarding people no more. This was 2 months ago but DeAndre Jordan had contested more 3s than Westbrook

I can't respect the hate, but I can understand it.

nikkaz trying to turn bball into baseball nah

The defensive criticism of Westbrook will always be fair as long as he plays super poorly on that end basically on purpose sometimes.


However I get a laugh at out of people putting numbers into everything so much so that this guy is trying to suggest what the team would look like if they were averaging a different amount of fastbreak points. That's not how it works, it's not that black and white. You can't just change the numbers and get the expected result because, as you said, basketball is not baseball.