The Marvels Starring Brie Larson, Teyonah Parris, Iman Vellani, and Sam Jackson November 10,2023

[Primetime]

this movie was so quick i never even had a chance to think, "ewww, they're all women!!" it looked like a marvel movie. there was not a single thing about it that was even "girl power rah rah." it flopped b.c the mcu is pig slop right now. Captain Marvel 2 would have made $250 mil less than the first one even if the MCU was still cooking and all the tentpoles were cracking a bil. it was the most inflated movie financially in the entire mcu

Granted, 250m less than 1.2 billion... is still damn near a billion. Remember, prior to the MCU, Spider-Man movies (Garfield) were rounding out at 700 million. We also have 16 years of Wolverine and X-Men movies that, until Deadpool, were doing less than MCU Ant Man numbers as an IP.

Point is, the MCU (and DCEU initially) were lightning in a bottle pop culture phenomena that could make mid/unknown IPs (Ironman, BP, GotG, Sucide Squad) bigger box office hits (if executed correctly) than the previously "unquestioned" triumvirate of Superman, Batman, and Spider-man.

But the execution is where DC failed years ago.. and now Marvel finds themselves in that territory. i.e. the difference between 2016 Suicide Squad (745m BO) and 2021 The Suicide Squad (168m BO) is the public perception of the DCEU brand in those 5 years. Now we're seeing that in Captain Marvel. They had a blank slate to make a female "superman in space" IP, and fumbled.

 

[BillBanneker]

Saw this Friday, and thought it was cool. Not top tier but middle of the pack in terms of MCU. Much better than the first CM . The villain was generic and I was thinking it would be better just to bring back Yon Rogg. The lore about the bangles was really interesting.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

The first avengers is WILDLY OVERRATED imo.

That has nothing to do with Age of Ultron being legit bad. Terrible cgi everywhere, an awful quicksilver and comedy quips during fights everywhere...imo it's where MCU's first cracks were shown and they've continued to grow. Overly lighthearted action shyt that became their signature style.

 

[Primetime]

Marvel needs to stop trying to force characters on the audience. Folks don’t give a shyt about Ms Marvel. It’s not happening. Those are the type of characters you SPRINKLE into an IP people actually care about, you don’t give them their own feature films.

Credit the Russos with how they reintroduced (MCU) Peter Parker to audiences not just by introducing him in Avengers 2.5 Captain America Civil War, but directly associating him with RDJ's Tony Stark. Disney double-downed on that and had him connected to the hip with Ironman for the rest of RDJ's days, so everyone knew your most beloved MCU character considers this kid to be his protege and successor. In retrospect it was pretty smart.

Russos went a similar path with T'Challa and Steve Rogers. Not a protege relationship but an equal/mutual respect. Had them damn near deadlocked in nobility, foot-race, ability to whoop Bucky's ass, etc. but not done in a way where BP would show up Cap, or vice versa.

It probably would've made more sense to introduce Captain Marvel in Thor Ragnorak, and have her play off Thor and Hulk. Or alternatively in GotG2. Have her break bread with the OGs to build repore with audiences... and then she'd have been in a better situation to do similar for Ms Marvel.

 

[Sensitive Christian Grey]

Did any other movie bombing get this much coverage? I feel like the Flash was more memes whereas this is picked up by international media and shyt

 

[CarltonJunior]

Credit the Russos with how they reintroduced (MCU) Peter Parker to audiences not just by introducing him in Avengers 2.5 Captain America Civil War, but directly associating him with RDJ's Tony Stark. Disney double-downed on that and had him connected to the hip with Ironman for the rest of RDJ's days, so everyone knew your most beloved MCU character considers this kid to be his protege and successor. In retrospect it was pretty smart.

Russos went a similar path with T'Challa and Steve Rogers. Not a protege relationship but an equal/mutual respect. Had them damn near deadlocked in nobility, foot-race, ability to whoop Bucky's ass, etc. but not done in a way where BP would show up Cap, or vice versa.

It probably would've made more sense to introduce Captain Marvel in Thor Ragnorak, and have her play off Thor and Hulk. Or alternatively in GotG2. Have her break bread with the OGs to build repore with audiences... and then she'd have been in a better situation to do similar for Ms Marvel.

I agree. It seems like in post thanos MCU in general the crossovers have become less ambitious and safer

It's like they listened to the nerds online that kept saying that they didn't need or care for the crossovers...even tho that was the original draw of the MCU to begin with

 

[Ironman]

Credit the Russos with how they reintroduced (MCU) Peter Parker to audiences not just by introducing him in Avengers 2.5 Captain America Civil War, but directly associating him with RDJ's Tony Stark. Disney double-downed on that and had him connected to the hip with Ironman for the rest of RDJ's days, so everyone knew your most beloved MCU character considers this kid to be his protege and successor. In retrospect it was pretty smart.

Russos went a similar path with T'Challa and Steve Rogers. Not a protege relationship but an equal/mutual respect. Had them damn near deadlocked in nobility, foot-race, ability to whoop Bucky's ass, etc. but not done in a way where BP would show up Cap, or vice versa.

It probably would've made more sense to introduce Captain Marvel in Thor Ragnorak, and have her play off Thor and Hulk. Or alternatively in GotG2. Have her break bread with the OGs to build repore with audiences... and then she'd have been in a better situation to do similar for Ms Marvel.

Her with Gunn might have helped a lot

 

[O.Red]

I

It's like they listened to the nerds online that kept saying that they didn't need or care for the crossovers...even tho that was the original draw of the MCU to begin with

Breh no one was saying this

The reason Fiege said MCU was moving away from big crossover interconnected stories after Endgame was because he probably didn't understand how they were able to do that shyt a first time Phase 1-3 was a storm of miracles

Imagine having to manage multiple working actors over the span of 20 movies over 11 years. Making sure these actors stay in contracts, making sure continuity is intact, scheduling, etc. I knew the shift away from these type of stories was gonna be a huge blow to the MCU but I also understood why Feige said what he said. That shyt is hard as fukk

 

[Primetime]

Her with Gunn might have helped a lot

Yup. Take the common pain points with Captain Marvel... (1) she lacks personality and (2) comes across as this mary sue that audiences got no emotional investment in... well Gunn did pretty well with a GotG cast that, comic-wise were mostly all serious/stoic characters, and made half of them humorously stoic (Drax, Nebula, Gamora)... and the other half either charming goof balls (Starlord, Mantis) or the loveable jackass (Rocket).

All things considered he probably could've took the framework they were going for and given it more life, plus have her around the GotG to bounce off of.

 

[CarltonJunior]

Breh no one was saying this

The reason Fiege said MCU was moving away from big crossover interconnected stories after Endgame was because he probably didn't understand how they were able to do that shyt a first time Phase 1-3 was a storm of miracles

Imagine having to manage multiple working actors over the span of 20 movies over 11 years. Making sure these actors stay in contracts, making sure continuity is intact, scheduling, etc. I knew the shift away from these type of stories was gonna be a huge blow to the MCU but I also understood why Feige said what he said. That shyt is hard as fukk

Oh no, it was definitely a vocal minority on socials saying this

Especially after wandavision and moon knight didn't deliver on it's crossovers and stans were looking to justify it with "we need more personal stories"

 

[O.Red]

Yup. Take the common pain points with Captain Marvel... (1) she lacks personality and (2) comes across as this mary sue that audiences got no emotional investment in... well Gunn did pretty well with a GotG cast that, comic-wise were mostly all serious/stoic characters, and made half of them humorously stoic (Drax, Nebula, Gamora)... and the other half either charming goof balls (Starlord, Mantis) or the loveable jackass (Rocket).

All things considered he probably could've took the framework they were going for and given it more life, plus have her around the GotG to bounce off of.

Yea I downplayed James Gunn for years but he does have a knack for this shyt

I enjoyed The Suicide Squad despite having zero reason to care about any of those characters initially

 

[O.Red]

Oh no, it was definitely a vocal minority on socials saying this

Especially after wandavision and moon knight didn't deliver on it's crossovers and stans were looking to justify it with "we need more personal stories"

Vocal "minority"

As far as not delivering I lay that shyt right at the feet of Marvel, especially when the decision making processes hit the public

Nikka everybody just knew Dr Strange was gonna show up in Wandavision. Then when he didn't we were all only to find out later that he actually was supposed to appear in the show but "We didn't want a man to solve Wanda's problems"

Spiderman was supposed to make a brief appearance in Falcon and Winter Soldier but once again they changed their minds. And throughout phase 4/5 it's been non stop stories of them initially making the right decision then reneging in post production and nikkas being like when they find out

The overwhelming majority of people loved the connections

 

[CarltonJunior]

Vocal "minority"

As far as not delivering I lay that shyt right at the feet of Marvel, especially when the decision making processes hit the public

Nikka everybody just knew Dr Strange was gonna show up in Wandavision. Then when he didn't we were all only to find out later that he actually was supposed to appear in the show but "We didn't want a man to solve Wanda's problems"

Spiderman was supposed to make a brief appearance in Falcon and Winter Soldier but once again they changed their minds. In throughout phase 4/5 it's been non stop stories of them initially making the right decision then reneging in post production and nikkas being like when they find out

The overwhelming majority of people loved the connections

That's my point tho

It's like they listened to that vocal minority instead of the overwhelming majority

 

[Primetime]

Yea I downplayed James Gunn for years but he does have a knack for this shyt

I enjoyed The Suicide Squad despite having zero reason to care about any of this characters initially

I was legit bummed when The Suicide Squad bombed. Not saying it was perfect but its near the top of my p4p list of superhero movies that captured the sweet science of the art form.

 

[O.Red]

That's my point tho

It's like they listened to that vocal minority instead of the overwhelming majority

Got it

Like them listening to bitter fanfic feminists who only want to insert themselves in everything and make everyone else miserable