The Little Known Biblical Curse of Egypt by Isaiah

[Koichos]

Jesus being “accepted by many” is an understatement. He hasn’t even stopped being “excepted” going on 2000 years

If it weren't Yoshke, it would be someone else. At least it's a Jew. That's a step in the right direction.

If Christianity isnt a new religion or a religion at all. It’s Jewish people who followed Jesus. How you view “Christianity” and judge Christians as a whole and not individual believers in the same god of the Jewish people is where you make the mistake

There were also Jews who followed Shimon Bar Kochba, Shabsai Tzvi, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and many others (at a greater proportion than Yoshke). The claim that Yoshke is Moshiach is no stronger than that of the aforementioned, regardless of his approbation. That Yoshke has many followers is actually a meaningless justification when considering the fact that 99% of them are non-Jews who wouldn't be able to sound out (let alone read and comprehend) a single verse of Tenach in its original Hebrew, and instead rely on Xian mistranslations of the Jewish Scriptures which insert Yoshke into any and every verse possible, misleading its main (non-Hebrew speaking) audience.

It’s that “us vs them mentality” or “Jews vs everybody”

It's been that way for 3,332 years.

If You say you respect Jesus you must respect his followers. All worship the same god after all.

That doesn't mean we must accept Yoshke as Moshiach, though.

Yes you understand the symbolic meaning of Jesus dying on the cross/Jewish sacrifices and forgiveness of sin.

Hashem hates the pagan practice of human sacrifice (D'vorim 12:30-31; Yirmeyohu 19:4-6; Yechezkel 16:20; T'hilim 106:37-38). We see it stated explicitly in Shmos 32:30-35, D'vorim 24:16, Yechezkel 18:20, Yirmeyohu 31:28-29 and T'hilim 49:8 that no ONE man can atone for the sins of others. That is, no one man can die for YOUR sin, and by dying take away YOUR guilt for YOUR sin. Moshe Rabeinu, following his return to the mountain after seeing the avodo zoro or foreign worship that was taking place, pleads with Hashem to punish HIM for the aveyros or sins of Klal Yisroel (Golden calf), and Hashem denies the request, responding "Whoever has sinned against Me, him I will erase...on the day I make an accounting [of sins upon them], I will bring their sin to account against them (Ex. 32:33-34)." Who is Yoshke to Moshe Rabeinu, the greatest prophet and most humble man to ever grace this earth? The one Hashem chose to commit the Torah to writing? The only ish tzadik whom the prophets assign to the Torah: ספר תורת משה Saifer Toras Moshe or Book of the Torah of Moshe (Yehoshua 8:31; M'lochim B 14:6; Nechemyoh 8:1); ספר משה Saifer Moshe or Book of Moshe (Divrei Hayomim B 25:4; Ezra 6:18; Nechemyoh 13:1). Even HASHEM refers to the Torah as תורת משה Toras Moshe or Torah of Moshe (Malachi 3:22).

Yoshke was put to death for his own aveyros. Furthermore, there are several factors which would render him an unacceptable sacrifice (for arguments sake). According to the Biblical rules explained in Shmois 1:1-7:38, all sacrifices had to be offered by a kohein (priest) who descends from Aharon HaKohen. This was clearly not the case in the execution of Yoshke, who was put to death by goyishe (Roman) soldiers. Additionally, Torah law prohibits any sacrifice which was blemished or maimed (Shmois 22:19-22). However, as attested to in the New Testament, Yoshke was beaten and flogged prior to his execution (Matthew 27:26, Mark 15:19, John 19:3), which would render him unfit. He was also circumcised which, according to Philippians 3:2 and Galatians 5:12, is considered mutilation. More than that, Xtians are under the interpretation that atonement is done ONLY through blood. Apparently B'midbor 17:12, 31:50, Shmois 30:15-16, Yeshayohu 6:6-7 and Yonah 3:7-10 are not part of their repertoire. Besides, a blood sacrifice was the WEAKEST way to atone for sin. Blood sacrifice only works for forgiveness for unintentional sin (Shmois 4:1-3, 5:15). The sacrificial system will be reinstituted when Moshiach arrives, and he will bring a bull for a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the Jews (Ezk 45:22) for unintentional sin (:20).

Tell me how Jewish people received forgiveness when temples were destroyed, they were conquered and the practices essentially weren’t functioning?

Hoshea tells us that the last segment of Jewish history before Moshiach, after the final exile of the Jewish People (Rome), there will be no Bais Hamikdosh and there will be no sacrificial system. What do we do when there's no sacrificial system? Instead of korbanos or sacrificial offerings, we daven, pray, as Hoshea 14:2-3 states ("Return, Israel, to Hashem your G-d, For you have fallen because of your sin. Take words with you and return to Hashem. Say to Him: `Forgive all guilt and accept what is good; Instead of bulls we will pay the offering of our lips.'") Animal sacrificial offerings were never the only way to atone for sin to begin with (blood was not a prerequisite for atonement), and they were used only for unintentional sin. As we see in the prophets, some of the other ways of atonement include: flour (Shmois 5:11-13); incense (B'midbor 17:11-13); charity (Shmois 30:15-16); tshuva/repentance and tfilla/prayer (B'midbor 31:50-54; Yonah 3:8-9); and fasting (Yonah 3:7). In the words of Dovid Hamelech: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require" (T'hilim 40:7). The tefillos/prayers were instituted by the prophets prior to the construction of the Bais Hamikdosh, and have since replaced the korbanos/sin-offerings until Moshiach's arrival בב"א.

When the Bais Hamikdosh was standing we sacrificed 70 bulls. Only 1 bull from the 70 was for the Jewish Nation. All the other bulls were for the gentiles. This was done once a year on Shemini Atzeres, the day after Hoshanah Rabba (the 7th day of Sukkos). So before the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed we did a huge favor for them by sacrificing those bulls. That's why Chaza"l say the gentiles don't know the damage they did for themselves by destroying the Mikdosh. So what do we have now? We have the tefillos or prayers. The tefillos are replacing the sacrifices, but these prayers (for the most part) are only for us (still, there is a section in shemona esrei which we daven three times a day for the betterment of the whole world, including the gentiles). By the gentiles, there's nothing to replace. Once the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed, there's no more bulls for them. They don't have the tefillos of our sages with all the secrets. Instead, they make their own prayers to all their idols which certainly doesn't help them. If anything, it makes their situation worse.

Does God make mistakes?

He wouldn't be G-d if He did.

Does he not keep his promises.

Yes. (D'vorim 7:9, B'midbor 23:19, Shmuel A 15:29)

Did god abandon the Jewish people as Muslims would suggest?

This is also what the Xians suggest, that the Jewish People have been חו"ש rejected by Hashem and replaced with the "body of believers" as the convenant people, and that in order to have a share we must believe in Yoshke.

But no. According to the Torah the Jewish People are an eternal nation. Just like the Aibishter is Hanitzchi (Hashem is Eternal), every Jew is imbued with this eternality. Just as Hashem is eternal the Jewish People are eternal.

Can God be defeated?

No.

Like I said Jews conflicts in history are with Christianity as a religion. Not with individual followers of Jesus.

In the same way black people try to blame Christianity for slavery in the Americas.

The New Testament is basically the story of Jesus and accounts of the early church

The Jews alive during the time of Jesus decided as a religion to not believe in Jesus before the New Testament was written and before “Christianity” was a thing

Based on the aveyros he was making, and his lack of fulfillment of Scriptural requirements Moshiach must satisfy.

Today you can think for yourself about who Jesus is. You can also decide to believe in any prophecy from Jesus or the NT writers or not.

The title “son of man” means many things. It’s obviously mentioned so many times for a reason. You can look into it.

Obviously Jesus was a man. But Can a man live without sinning?

The prophets from the Jewish scriptures sinned.

We don't claim otherwise. The only four who did not sin were: Yishai the father of Dovid Hamelech, Amrom the father of Moshe Rabeinu, Binyomin the son of Yaakov Ovinu, Kilav the son of Dovid Hamelech.

Hashem does not call call us "Am Keshei Oref" for nothing. We stood at Har Sinai and Hashem said: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Ex. 20:4). Forty days later we said: ehhhh.. (ibid. 32:8).

Jesus wasn’t a prophet. Only in Islam he’s called a prophet.

That was my point.

According to Judaism and Jesus (before he started his ministry) John The Baptist was the last prophet.

Prophecy departed from the Jewish People following the deaths of the Latter 'Minor' Prophets (Chaggai, Zecharyoh and Malachi). Since then, there have been no new prophets. Malachi was the last Jewish prophet.

Jesus spoke with Gods authority to teach and do miracles, heal, forgive etc.... not as a prophet relaying gods message for a specific issue or purpose

Yoshke performed his 'miracles' through koichos ha'tum'a or impure spiritual forces of sorcery, a practice isur d'oroyso which means the prohibition comes directly from the Torah (loi yimotzei becho...kosem k'samim; loi yimotzei becho...u'mechoshef).

Hashem alone forgives sin (Yeshayohu 43:25, 55:7; Shmuel B 12:13; Divrei Hayomim B 7:15).

Jesus was different than any religions figure before him or after. Not a prophet like those before, not a Demi God like Egyptian/Greek/Hindu Gods, not “a God” or “God the father” in Judaism, not an Angel but definitely a human man on earth sent by God for a purpose and the messiah to those who accepted him then and in the future. You can’t really give him 1 title or put him in a box.

But that’s how I see him. You can read the New Testament to understand and believe for yourself

Don’t let your religion tell you what to think or believe.

Of course Jews are the eternal nation. Christians believe whatever scripture you believe.

Nobody is against Jewish people but,

You have to realize the error and fault in some of the man made Jewish teachings, ideas and practices that hold you back. The same way Jesus criticized Jewish Leaders can be applied to today not only with Judaism but all religious institutions:

Hypocrisy/self righteousness/abuse of power/

misinterpreting & twisting of scripture for control

Xianity is built upon the misinterpretation of the Jewish Scriptures. Everywhere you go you run into capital 'S' (Son) and capital 'L' (Lord) where it should be 'son' and 'lord' (the two former alluding to divinity where, in the verses of the original Hebrew, there is none).

But you think Jesus is the bad guy because he exposed it all.

I don't think Yoshke's a bad guy.

Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.“

What does that mean to you?

Considering all the mitzvos he was breaking and the aveyros he was making (and those upon which he condoned his talmidim to infringe), I'm not moved.

 

[DoubleClutch]

If it weren't Yoshke, it would be someone else. At least it's a Jew. That's a step in the right direction.


There were also Jews who followed Shimon Bar Kochba, Shabsai Tzvi, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and many others (at a greater proportion than Yoshke). The claim that Yoshke is Moshiach is no stronger than that of the aforementioned, regardless of his approbation. That Yoshke has many followers is actually a meaningless justification when considering the fact that 99% of them are non-Jews who wouldn't be able to sound out (let alone read and comprehend) a single verse of Tenach in its original Hebrew, and instead rely on Xian mistranslations of the Jewish Scriptures which insert Yoshke into any and every verse possible, misleading its main (non-Hebrew speaking) audience.


It's been that way for 3,332 years.


That doesn't mean we must accept Yoshke as Moshiach, though.


Hashem hates the pagan practice of human sacrifice (D'vorim 12:30-31; Yirmeyohu 19:4-6; Yechezkel 16:20; T'hilim 106:37-38). We see it stated explicitly in Shmos 32:30-35, D'vorim 24:16, Yechezkel 18:20, Yirmeyohu 31:28-29 and T'hilim 49:8 that no ONE man can atone for the sins of others. That is, no one man can die for YOUR sin, and by dying take away YOUR guilt for YOUR sin. Moshe Rabeinu, following his return to the mountain after seeing the avodo zoro or foreign worship that was taking place, pleads with Hashem to punish HIM for the aveyros or sins of Klal Yisroel (Golden calf), and Hashem denies the request, responding "Whoever has sinned against Me, him I will erase...on the day I make an accounting [of sins upon them], I will bring their sin to account against them (Ex. 32:33-34)." Who is Yoshke to Moshe Rabeinu, the greatest prophet and most humble man to ever grace this earth? The one Hashem chose to commit the Torah to writing? The only ish tzadik whom the prophets assign to the Torah: ספר תורת משה Saifer Toras Moshe or Book of the Torah of Moshe (Yehoshua 8:31; M'lochim B 14:6; Nechemyoh 8:1); ספר משה Saifer Moshe or Book of Moshe (Divrei Hayomim B 25:4; Ezra 6:18; Nechemyoh 13:1). Even HASHEM refers to the Torah as תורת משה Toras Moshe or Torah of Moshe (Malachi 3:22).

Yoshke was put to death for his own aveyros. Furthermore, there are several factors which would render him an unacceptable sacrifice (for arguments sake). According to the Biblical rules explained in Shmois 1:1-7:38, all sacrifices had to be offered by a kohein (priest) who descends from Aharon HaKohen. This was clearly not the case in the execution of Yoshke, who was put to death by goyishe (Roman) soldiers. Additionally, Torah law prohibits any sacrifice which was blemished or maimed (Shmois 22:19-22). However, as attested to in the New Testament, Yoshke was beaten and flogged prior to his execution (Matthew 27:26, Mark 15:19, John 19:3), which would render him unfit. He was also circumcised which, according to Philippians 3:2 and Galatians 5:12, is considered mutilation. More than that, Xtians are under the interpretation that atonement is done ONLY through blood. Apparently B'midbor 17:12, 31:50, Shmois 30:15-16, Yeshayohu 6:6-7 and Yonah 3:7-10 are not part of their repertoire. Besides, a blood sacrifice was the WEAKEST way to atone for sin. Blood sacrifice only works for forgiveness for unintentional sin (Shmois 4:1-3, 5:15). The sacrificial system will be reinstituted when Moshiach arrives, and he will bring a bull for a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the Jews (Ezk 45:22) for unintentional sin (:20).


Hoshea tells us that the last segment of Jewish history before Moshiach, after the final exile of the Jewish People (Rome), there will be no Bais Hamikdosh and there will be no sacrificial system. What do we do when there's no sacrificial system? Instead of korbanos or sacrificial offerings, we daven, pray, as Hoshea 14:2-3 states ("Return, Israel, to Hashem your G-d, For you have fallen because of your sin. Take words with you and return to Hashem. Say to Him: `Forgive all guilt and accept what is good; Instead of bulls we will pay the offering of our lips.'") Animal sacrificial offerings were never the only way to atone for sin to begin with (blood was not a prerequisite for atonement), and they were used only for unintentional sin. As we see in the prophets, some of the other ways of atonement include: flour (Shmois 5:11-13); incense (B'midbor 17:11-13); charity (Shmois 30:15-16); tshuva/repentance and tfilla/prayer (B'midbor 31:50-54; Yonah 3:8-9); and fasting (Yonah 3:7). In the words of Dovid Hamelech: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require" (T'hilim 40:7). The tefillos/prayers were instituted by the prophets prior to the construction of the Bais Hamikdosh, and have since replaced the korbanos/sin-offerings until Moshiach's arrival בב"א.

When the Bais Hamikdosh was standing we sacrificed 70 bulls. Only 1 bull from the 70 was for the Jewish Nation. All the other bulls were for the gentiles. This was done once a year on Shemini Atzeres, the day after Hoshanah Rabba (the 7th day of Sukkos). So before the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed we did a huge favor for them by sacrificing those bulls. That's why Chaza"l say the gentiles don't know the damage they did for themselves by destroying the Mikdosh. So what do we have now? We have the tefillos or prayers. The tefillos are replacing the sacrifices, but these prayers (for the most part) are only for us (still, there is a section in shemona esrei which we daven three times a day for the betterment of the whole world, including the gentiles). By the gentiles, there's nothing to replace. Once the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed, there's no more bulls for them. They don't have the tefillos of our sages with all the secrets. Instead, they make their own prayers to all their idols which certainly doesn't help them. If anything, it makes their situation worse.


He wouldn't be G-d if He did.


Yes. (D'vorim 7:9, B'midbor 23:19, Shmuel A 15:29)


This is also what the Xians suggest, that the Jewish People have been חו"ש rejected by Hashem and replaced with the "body of believers" as the convenant people, and that in order to have a share we must believe in Yoshke.

But no. According to the Torah the Jewish People are an eternal nation. Just like the Aibishter is Hanitzchi (Hashem is Eternal), every Jew is imbued with this eternality. Just as Hashem is eternal the Jewish People are eternal.


No.


Based on the aveyros he was making, and his lack of fulfillment of Scriptural requirements Moshiach must satisfy.


We don't claim otherwise. The only four who did not sin were: Yishai the father of Dovid Hamelech, Amrom the father of Moshe Rabeinu, Binyomin the son of Yaakov Ovinu, Kilav the son of Dovid Hamelech.

Hashem does not call call us "Am Keshei Oref" for nothing. We stood at Har Sinai and Hashem said: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Ex. 20:4). Forty days later we said: ehhhh.. (ibid. 32:8).


That was my point.


Prophecy departed from the Jewish People following the deaths of the Latter 'Minor' Prophets (Chaggai, Zecharyoh and Malachi). Since then, there have been no new prophets. Malachi was the last Jewish prophet.


Yoshke performed his 'miracles' through koichos ha'tum'a or impure spiritual forces of sorcery, a practice isur d'oroyso which means the prohibition comes directly from the Torah (loi yimotzei becho...kosem k'samim; loi yimotzei becho...u'mechoshef).

Hashem alone forgives sin (Yeshayohu 43:25, 55:7; Shmuel B 12:13; Divrei Hayomim B 7:15).


Xianity is built upon the misinterpretation of the Jewish Scriptures. Everywhere you go you run into capital 'S' (Son) and capital 'L' (Lord) where it should be 'son' and 'lord' (the two former alluding to divinity where, in the verses of the original Hebrew, there is none).


I don't think Yoshke's a bad guy.


Considering all the mitzvos he was breaking and the aveyros he was making (and those upon which he condoned his talmidim to infringe), I'm not moved.

Good to see you know the New Testament Bible

I like the way you think.

Exactly one of my points. It probably would’ve been Muhammad and Islam if not for Jesus. And maybe there’s no Country or land for Jews to even call their own.

Then again, would there even be a reason for Islam if Jesus never started the Christian movement. The Quran seems to focus on Jesus.

Maybe it’s all part of gods plan

Anyways, a few things I wanna clear up.

Jesus isn’t just a prophet in the way Islam sees him. He’s more than that.

I think we’re speaking from 2 different perspectives on a lot of things

Even though you’ve studied the Bible and what people told you about conventional Christian way of thought you don’t know how I think

For one, I’m not saying Jesus is greater than the Moses or the other figures in the Bible like Adam etc.... they had different roles

That’s besides the point really

As far as human sacrifice

I think giving up your own life is different than sacrificing something against their will

Kinda like how God asked Abraham to sacrifice issac?

If god “hates” even the concept of human sacrifice it would be questionable to even ask that of Abraham

And it’s a scripture that brings up many hard questions so let’s agree to ignore that topic

Jesus “sacrifice” is symbolic

Blood being used in saving from, redeeming and washing away sins is symbolic and a reoccurring theme in the Bible

The same way you say exiled Jews pray for forgiveness is how Christians pray to god for forgiveness but through Jesus

But let me ask you a question why would God ask for sacrifices and other offering as atonement for sin only to change his mind and accept only Praying as sufficient?

Were all the prior sacrifices in vain? Or were they only symbolic?

I wouldn’t say Jews were rejected by god. But god definitely opened things up to the rest of the world considering Jews rejected the son and by default rejected the “Father” unknowingly

But you should know God is always ready to take back his “prodigal son”

That is the story of the Old Testament in a nutshell

God never will never forget his “chosen people”.

Off topic, I have never heard of the concept of “unintentional sin”

Maybe You can explain how that is even possible?

 

[MMS]

I never heard of the nicene creed until this post. If Christians wanna let the Catholic Church speak for them then that’s their loss

Jesus is who he said he is. Any problem with it, take it up with Jesus or make sense of it if for yourself.

But as for other religions (Jews, Muslims, Jehovah witness, etc...) who tell Christians what they believe based on man made graphs and terminology like “the trinity”, I’ll quote you by saying:

“some concepts just can’t be explained or expressed with words.”

It takes some thought and understanding. That’s why Jesus spoke in parables. And never said “I Am God”

thus why I dislike saying outright what is and what isnt. It is concerning that you do not know the Creed though...Its hard to claim christianity yet not know its history. Sola scriptura is heresy despite whats told in the West.

to look at texts at face value and contemplate God is better than to come to a manmade conclusion from a second hand source. That said we must have discernment

I want to get to the bottom of what happened between post-flood Egypt and Exodus. Egypt and Israel would have been a combined kingdom under David/Solomon and that only works with shared culture and religion if not shared, then that history changes as well

 

[MMS]

The Messianic movement, theologically, agrees with what Assemblies of God and the Southern Baptist Churches believe in. There's no theological differences between them. The only difference is the Messianics use Jewish culture, icons and liturgy, to convey a Xian message.

And just to add: it's interesting that Messianic Jews claim to not believe in 'Rabbinic' Judaism, that they only believe in the written Torah (Written Law) and not the oral Torah (Oral Law), yet all the commandments and traditions they actually keep are either mere customs (yarmulke) or commandments which are explained only in the oral Torah (every one of them). For example, when they wear tefillin, it consts of four parshiyos bound up, leather made from one piece, the dye, and the thread that's used just like the Oral Law says; exactly how it is explained in the Oral Law. Yet one cannot find this in the written Torah. Or even the tzitzis they wear, consisting of 13 knots and threads on each corner (5 knots, 8 threads (four doubled over)), exactly as it is explained in the Oral Law. And their wives don't wear tzitzis. Why not? In the written Torah it doesn't say that females don't need to wear them. Only from the Oral Law do we know that women are not obligated to fulfill the time-bound mitzvos (commandments that must be fulfilled during certain parts of the day: tfillin, kriyas shema, tzitzis, etc). Without the Oral Law none of the mitzvos make sense. So they claim that they don't believe in the Oral Law (Oral Torah), only in the Written Law (Written Torah), yet they only keep the commandments according to the explanations in the Oral Torah.

The Jewish Calendar is thoroughly predicated on the Oral Torah. A lunar month is approximately 29.5 days on average, which would therefore make a lunar year to be 354 days (29.5 x 12 = 354). And a solar calendar is approximately 365.25 days. This means the solar calendar (secular calendar) is 11.25 days longer than the lunar year. Now, there's a commandment in the Torah (D'vorim 16:1) that Pesach MUST come out in the springtime. MUST. The problem is the 365.25 days of the solar calendar that governs the seasons. Each year you would lose 11 days. If this year Pesach is on April 8, and you did nothing to the calendar but just count 12 months, what day would Pesach be next year? Well, next year it would still be in the spring, but as the years go on it would eventually fall in winter, and then fall, and so on. This is forbidden. However, for the Jewish Calendar, the Oral Torah gives a formula how to intercalate an extra month in 'Ibbur' (a year that has an extra twelfth month) so that we know when Pesach is. This way, Pesach is always observed in spring.

(Just to note: There is NO commandment anywhere in the Torah to have 12 months in the year.) Pesach is based on this calculation. How do we know when Pesach is? How do we know when Rosh Hashanah is? We go to the Jewish Calendar. The Jewish Calendar is based on a calculation that is entirely Oral Torah. You must know the exact calculation of a lunar month, which is ~29.5 days, or 29 days plus 12 hours, and of the 13th hour you would divide that into 1,080 parts called in Hebrew, חלקים or 'chalokim'–which for the record is a great number because it's divisible by almost anything. And it's 796 over 1080. So the approximate length of a lunar cycle according to the calculation of the Oral Torah, on which the Jewish Calendar is based, is 29.530590 days or 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes and 3 and 1/3 seconds. And we intercalate approximately seven times every nineteen years. Therefore, unlike the secular calendar, the Jewish Calendar is luni–solar. The months are lunar, but the years are solar, with the nineteen-year Metonic cycle synchronizing the two.

It always amazes me how well jewish practitioners know their faith, and yet it still makes perfect sense to me as to why Jesus came to be in the west as opposed to the domination of Mithraism and Cybele worship already present in Rome. I never knew they built a Roman city on top of the smoldering ruins of Jerusalem AFTER the Siege in 70 AD
Aelia Capitolina - Wikipedia

There is evidence that the original building for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was actually a Temple of Venus I also didn't know that Jews were not permitted back to Jerusalem until AFTER it was reconquered by Muslim Arabs...

realistically...do you believe G-d wishes all men and women to be saved and to repent of their wickedness? If so, does he evangelize through his church or through his spirit (ruach hakodesh)?

 

[MMS]

I'm going to take it an even bigger step further to illuminate the divide @DoubleClutch @Koios

fundamentally "Protestantism" had its roots in denouncing the Pope as the Anti-christ and debates over adherence and interpretation of the Old Testament.

Read some of the debates that happened in Germany (remember most were completely fine with Hitler's regime)
Deutsche Christen – Wikipedia

which then gave rise to...
Arierparagraph – Wikipedia

youll have to get google to translate to English....Protestantism and Catholicism do not view God the same as Jews. This problem has been present since the debate between Paul and Peter. The need to convert Gentiles to Judaism wasn't working outside of the Levant...thus the compromise. If you noticed, Euros in general have always resented the culture of adherents to Judaism...which IMO has lead to continued persecution of Jews - see bible passages on flaunting righteousness for favor in the OT.

Ever since Roman emperors adopted Christianity, Jesus and Crucifix's have been used as a control mechanism. In fact, if you go back to the days of the Iconoclasm...they knew this too and ironically when they restored the idols they were attacked by Latins and ultimately Ottomans

Jews will never accept Christian's assertions of following the same God due to non-complete-adherence to Mosaic Law and the use of images. Christians should just be honest that they obey Noahide law (which is the real truth).

There is a reason the Mosaic laws are so detailed and precise and it has a lot to do with what happened in Egypt during the time of the Exodus (many foods were plagued and forbidden practices were done by people that were specific to Egypt due to many of Moses followers being random) This is the only reason I understand Paul's perspective on Mosaic law...but he could be wrong the things told to Moses may have had a deeper meaning that just hasn't been completely revealed. Why are some animals "unclean"? what makes an animal "unclean" fundamentally compared to cattle/herd animals and fish with scales etc? From my perspective, there are Biochemical reasons that are only now becoming clear as the field of gastronomy gets deeper.

 

[Koichos]

realistically...do you believe G-d wishes all men and women to be saved and to repent of their wickedness?

Tshuva is a universal concept. There is no need for a gentile to become a Jew in order to be considered righteous in the eyes of Hashem. The Torah is the only true and authentic source of instruction and enlightenment from Hashem. Jews are subject to 613 mitzvos or commandments, whereas gentiles are subject to the Sheva Mitzvos Bnai Noach or the "Seven Laws of Noach", also known as the Noachide Laws. The Noachide Laws are not for Jews but expressly for gentiles, all gentiles. Applicable to non-Jews are also the ethical or common sense mitzvos like 'tzedakah' (charity), 'kibbud av v'aim' (honoring one's parents), and so on. It comes out to about 40 or so mitzvos to which all gentiles must follow. The 'Seven Laws of Noach' are to the gentiles what the 'Ten Commandments' are to the Jews.

Aveyros or sins can be categorized into two primary groups: sin between us and Hashem, and sin between us and our fellow man, both of which are observed in the Decalogue, the Ten Utterances which Hashem has deemed between Himself and the Jewish People by the hand of Moshe at Har Sinai. Although in modern parlance they are usually called the 'Ten Commandments', the Torah itself (in Shmois 34:28) calls them עשרת הדברים or 'Asseres Ha'Dovorim (Ten Words), and tradition terms them עשרת הדברות or 'Asseres Ha'Dibros (Ten Utterances). The first five statements are dealing with the relationship between us and Hashem (including the fifth statement of 'kibbud av v'aim' (honoring one's parents), since they, like Hashem, brought us into being); and the last five statements are dealing with the relationship between us and our fellow humans. As a unit, these 'Ten Utterances/Statements' contain within them the kernel from which the rest of the mitzvos or commandments emerge, serving as the 'Chapter Headings', if you will, for the 248 'do's and 365 'dont's.

When 'Avrom' (אברם) circumcised himself, he merited to be called 'Avrohom' (אברהם), an additional hei (ה) inserted into his name, making the numerical value of his new name, 248, representing the 248 positive commandments of Torah. In reference to the Name י-ה-ו-ה in Shmois 3:15, Hashem tells Moshe "This is 'My Name' (שמי) forever, and this is 'My Memorial' (זכרי) for all generations". 'My Name' and 'My Memorial' each relate to one half of the Name. 'My Name' (שמי) and 'yud-kei' (י-ה) is 365; 'My Memorial' (זכרי) and 'kei-waw' (ו-ה) is 248. Together, י-ה-ו-ה + זכרי + שמי have a numerical value of 613 corresponding to the 613 mitzvos (365 'don't's and 248 'do's). In Malachi 3:22 Hashem tells us: "Keep in remembrance the Torah of Moshe.." The numerical value of משה רבינו or 'Moshe Rabenu' (Moses our teacher) is 613. 613 is a combination of 6+1+3=10 ('Ten Commandments'). Taking its digital root, you get One (6+1+3=10; 1+0=1) ("Hashem Echod", D'vorim 6:4), which means the 613 mitzvos given to Klal Yisroel are directly connected to the existence of Hashem!

If so, does he evangelize through his church or through his spirit (ruach hakodesh)?

The Hebrew word קודש or 'kodesh' means "holiness" not "holy". Don't be misled by Xians who translate the phrase רוח הקודש or 'ruach hakodesh' as "holy spirit" to get something like 1/3 of the trinity in the triune godhead. The actual Hebrew phrase for "holy spirit" would be רוח קדשה or 'ruach kedosha'. רוח הקודש is simply the divine state of a HUMAN BEING who can reach a higher spiritual level than that of the general public. A more proper translation of רוח הקודש would be "a spirit of [the] holiness", a sort of divine inspiration; a kind of prophecy or Divinely-provided instinctual sense. Whereas the Torah itself was dictated letter by letter to Moshe by Hashem, the rest of Tenach was written by virtue of ruach hakodesh. Hence why the Torah is considered to be a higher level than the Neviyim or Kesuvim.

The Torah is considered G-d's Word as He dictated the text word for word to Moshe Rabeinu. The Neviyim were written b'nevuoh (prophetically), not just with the ruach hakodesh (divine inspiration) of the Kesuvim. There is NO 'holy spirit' OR 'holy ghost' in the sense of an entity, a part of a triune godhead. There is only one G-d (D'vorim 4:35, 4:39, 7:9, 32:39; Yeshayohu 43:10, 45:6-8, 45:5-6, 45:18 46:9; Yirmiyohu 32:27), and He is One (D'vorim 6:4). The term 'רוח קדשה' (in which 'holy' is an adjective) doesn't appear in Scripture even once. רוח הקודש is a state of holiness in a human being, NOT some mythical spirit of Hashem; someone who has רוח הקודש is relaying their OWN words and thoughts influenced by Hashem. It is divine inspiration as opposed to the direct communication of true prophecy.

 

[Koichos]

Why are some animals "unclean"? what makes an animal "unclean" fundamentally compared to cattle/herd animals and fish with scales etc? From my perspective, there are Biochemical reasons that are only now becoming clear as the field of gastronomy gets deeper.

On the surface level, perhaps the Torah forbade Jews from eating pork because it was a staple food in Egypt as well as surrounding civilizations in the Ancient Near East and the Jewish People were deemed to be 'sanctified' or 'set apart' from them.

The simple answer for all the mitzvos of Torah—those that Jews are to do (248 'do's) and those from which we are to refrain (365 'dont's)—is not because they necessarily align with man's logic, but rather because Hashem said so. For example, there's a unique mitzva for a Jew from the Torah that, for many, is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The mitzva is known as שילוח הקן or 'shiluach ha'kan' (sending of the nest). If you stumble upon a natural (kosher) bird's nest with eggs, you shoo the mother and take her eggs. But to our rational mind this seems evil, as certain birds will not return once you have violated their young. So, in essence, let's just say: you're killing the birds. Mitzva!! It's a mitzva from the Torah that lengthens your life (D'vorim 22:6-7). Why? Because Hashem said so. That's the mitzva.

Treif's 'filthiness' is just a rationalization we make, a logical interpretation whereby a fence is built around the Torah's prohibition (similar to the reason we call a pig a דבר אחר which means idiomatically "something else", lest one become curious about it and come to eat it). But the reason pig isn't kosher is because it doesn't chew its cud ("גרה לא יגר"). It does, however, have split hooves, which makes it a rather deceiving animal. In fact, the pig is the only animal with split hooves that doesn't chew its cud. Why must an animal have split hooves and chew its cud in order to be considered kosher? Well, because Hashem said so. Still, its prohibition and the rest of the kashrus laws apply only to Jews. Gentiles, on the other hand, can consume any animal they'd like as long as it's dead before consumption.

When the Torah uses the word טמא or 'tomei' (unclean/impure) in reference to the carcass of an animal that is not kosher ("טמא הוא לכם"), this is not a physical impurity or uncleanliness but rather a spiritual one. This is similar to the laws of niddah concerning a (Jewish) woman during menstruation. She is considered by Torah law a נדה or 'niddah' (separated) and becomes טמא, hence the forbidden act of intimacy between husband and wife during this time of separation. Physically, though, she is not impure, as even AFTER she stops bleeding she remains טמא until she immerses herself in the mikveh, after which she becomes טהור or 'tohor' (clean/pure). טמא and טהור are entirely spiritual phenomena. The Torah says pork is טמא הוא לכם because, as a non-ruminant mammal, it doesn't chew the cud.

That is precisely why the Torah labels treif or non-kosher as שקץ or 'sheketz' (defiling) which leads to טמא or 'tomei' (spiritual impurity) ("כל אשר אין לו סנפיר וקשקשת במים שקץ הוא לכם...ולאלה תטמאו"). Whereas, for example, with respect to the aveyro or sin of one who acts on his homosexual desires, the noun used is תועבה or 'toi'eivah' (abomination) ("ואת זכר לא תשכב משכבי אשה תועבה הוא"). The difference is this: Kosher observance is just for the Jews, which includes the concept of becoming טמא as a result of its transgression. (Per the Torah, gentiles do not convey or contract טומאה, and therefore cannot become טמא). By contrast, laws of morality (e.g., giloy aroyos, forbidden sexual relations) are universal as part of the Noachide Code of Ethical Monotheism which G-d has ordained for ALL mankind.

To expound on the spiritual impurity of טמא by means of Toras HaSod, the esoteric or mystical parts of Torah, take a look at Voyikro 11:43: ולא תטמאו בהם ונטמתם בם, "And you shall not defile yourselves with them, that you should become unclean (ונטמתם) through them". The Hebrew here for 'unclean' is ונטמתם or 'v'nitmaytem'. However, it is usually spelled with an alef א (as in ונטמאתם; cf. נטמתם), and we know that every single letter in the Torah is precisely placed; Hashem dictated, Moshe wrote. When a word has an 'extra' or 'missing' letter, it is so for a reason, often for the purpose of allowing for multiple readings. Here, ChaZa"L say, do not read ונטמתם or 'v'nitmaytem' (unclean), but rather ונטמתם or 'v'nitomtem' (stultify), meaning to become 'unclear', 'obstructed', or 'stupefied' (ונטמטם would actually be written with a tess ט instead of a tav ת, but nevertheless pronounced the same). Thus, ולא תטמאו בהם ונטמתם בם, "And you shall not defile yourselves with them, that you should become unclear through them", implying that, when a Jew consumes treif, they are being 'sealed', in that their spiritual sensitivity is being blocked. It is a spiritual obstruction of the neshuma, the soul. The consumption of treif, writes the Masilas Yeshurim, defiles a Jew's neshuma more than any other aveyro because these foods become part of his own flesh.

 

[Koichos]

Exactly one of my points. It probably would’ve been Muhammad and Islam if not for Jesus. And maybe there’s no Country or land for Jews to even call their own.

I'm not understanding the correlation between Yoshke, and Eretz Yisroel as the divinely ordained destiny of the Jewish People as appointed by Hashem. Jews are commanded by Torah law (Shmois 19:6) to establish a state in Eretz Yisroel; that is an essential command of the Torah. And this is in fact what is said to the Jewish People just before receiving the Torah. The word used is ממלכה (mamlacha), which is usually translated as 'kingdom'. But really, in modern parlance we would translate this as a state. There is no word for a 'state' in the Tenach. To give a contemporary example, the word מדינה (medina) that we use in Modern Hebrew for a state, in scripture means a large walled city, usually a capital city or a regional capital city; a large city with a wall around it. In the time of the Jewish Scriptures, there were no states that were not kingdoms. Every state was a kingdom, a ממלכה (mamlacha). This is also the case in Yiddish. When the State of Israel was revived in 1948, there was a Yiddish newspaper in Israel at the time. The Yiddish headline read: א יידישע מלוכה or 'Ah Yiddishe Melikhe' (A Jewish Kingdom). Like Biblical Hebrew, there is no word in the Yiddish language for a state. The word that we use for a state in Yiddish is מלוכה (melikhe), from the Hebrew word for king, מלך (melekh), like the Biblical Hebrew ממלכה (mamlacha).

Jewish identity is rooted in the Jewish Scriptures only. Without the Jewish Holy Scriptures you can not even imagine a Jewish identity. Without Tenach, there are no Jews. And without Tenach we do not have a right to settle in Israel. The so called "Balfour Declaration" is just a secular formulation and confirmation of the biblical claim of the Jews to live in the land of Israel. The secular tziyoinim of history were obviously pawns Hashem used through dispensation to achieve His will. The Kingdom of Israel then, is no different than the State of Israel today. Both began in a rebellious and non-halochic way, both were/are run not according to the guidelines of the Torah, and both had reshoim (or at least non-observant tinokos shenishbo) leading the government (whether it was a king or a prime minister). Still, Hashem intended, earmarked Eretz Yisroel for the Jewish People. And when we have it, we are not permitted to give it away. The story of Creation is told first to establish the fact that the ENTIRE WORLD belongs to Him. And only HE has the right to apportion the Holy Land. Eretz Yisroel was promised as the exclusive inheritance for Klal Yisroel as the covenant with Avrohom, Yitzchok, and Yaakov. It is the Biblical Homeland of the Jewish People and no lies and accusations by the nations of the world can change a fundamental truth.

As far as human sacrifice

I think giving up your own life is different than sacrificing something against their will

Kinda like how God asked Abraham to sacrifice issac?

If god “hates” even the concept of human sacrifice it would be questionable to even ask that of Abraham

Hashem tests the righteous (T'hilim 11:6); that is the point: mesirus nefesh, self-sacrifice. After Avrohom Ovinu demonstrates the depth of his trust and commitment to Hashem with his willingness to sacrifice Yitzchok despite it being an aveyro (remember, Avrohom kept the mitzvos orally, long before Moshe at Sinai (B'raishis 26:5)), Hashem commands Avrohom, saying, "Do not stretch forth your hand to the boy, nor do the slightest thing to him, for now I know that you fear G-d, and you did not withhold your son, your favored one, from Me" (B'raishis 22:12). Hashem makes it clear that He does NOT want us to offer human sacrifices to Him. This is replete throughout the Torah. The Torah expressly forbids human sacrifice, a pagan practice, and calls it a 'תועבת ה or 'toieivus Hashem' (abomination to G-d) (D'vorim 12:30-31). And yes, "hate", as it is written: "לא תעשה כן ליהוה אלהיך כי כל תועבת ה' אשר שנא עשו לאלהיהם כי גם את בניהם ואת בנתיהם ישרפו באש לאלהיהם—You shall not do so toward Hashem your G-d; for every abomination to Hashem that He hates, they did to their gods; they even offer up their sons and daughters in fire to their gods" (ibid. 12:31). Jews are to serve Hashem by living a G-dly life (observing the mitzvos) and giving life to others, not by murdering. Judaism celebrates life and mourns death, not the other way around.

Blood being used in saving from, redeeming and washing away sins is symbolic and a reoccurring theme in the Bible

Yes, but for unintentional sin. And blood from the likes of kosher animals, not humans. And the atonement is for oneself, not others.

But let me ask you a question why would God ask for sacrifices and other offering as atonement for sin only to change his mind and accept only Praying as sufficient?

Hashem did not change His mind. He kept His promise concerning the blessings and curses. When the aveyros reach a certain point and the land is defiled because of it, the land "vomits" its inhabitants (Voyikroh 18:25, 28), just as it did to the C'na'anim before it was given to the Jewish People. The korbanos were designated to take place in the Bais Hamikdosh with the kohanim. Therefore, when there is no Bais Hamikdosh, the sacrificial system is put on hold. In point of fact, our prophets foretold that the Second Temple would be destroyed (Michoh 3:12). Michoh lived roughly 800 years earlier. Michoh lived in the time of Yeshayohu and Hoshea in the First Temple Period. They lived when the First Temple was standing, and foretold that the Temple Mount would be utter desolation, akin to that of a forest. Comes Hoshea who prophesies that tefilah/prayer will replace the korbanos/sin-offerings while in golus (Hoshea 14:2-3). And Yechezkel tells us that the sacrificial system will be reinstituted in the messianic era (Yechezkel 43:21), and that Moshiach himself will bring an animal sin-offering on behalf of himself and the Jewish nation (Yechezkel 45:22). In accordance with the Torah that blood sacrifice atones for unintentional sin (Voyikroh 4:2), Moshiach will bring the korban for unintentional sin (as is described in Yechezkel 45:20).

But tshuvah/repentance and tefillah/prayer were always part of atonement. If a person is in rebellion against Hashem, an animal sacrifice won't help him, as blood only atones for unintentional sin. He must do tshuvah. If someone steals and he's caught, he must repay; there is no sacrifice that could be brought for such an act. Actually, the institution of tefillah long predates the Temple, even the revelation at Sinai. The three daily tefillos of the shemona esrei were instituted by our forefathers. Avrohom Ovinu instituted the morning tefilla (shachris); Yitzchok the afternoon tefilla (mincho); and Yaakov the evening tefilla (arvit/ma'ariv). These daily tefillos correspond with the two daily Temple sacrifices: one in the morning (corresponding to shachris), one in the afternoon (corresponding to mincho), and the afternoon offering which consisted of the burning of the limbs, which would take place throughout the night (corresponding to arvit/ma'ariv). This explains why on days like Shabes or Yom Tovs (holidays) when additional sacrifices in the Temple were offered, we have an additional tefillah (musaf). So six days of the week we have shachris, mincho and ma'ariv (corresponding to the three daily sacrifices in the Temple), and on Shabes and Yom Tovs we have shachris, mincho, ma'ariv and musaf (corresponding to the additional sacrifices).

Were all the prior sacrifices in vain? Or were they only symbolic?

During the end of the Second Temple Period the Bais Hamikdosh was rife with sinos chinon, that is baseless hatred, one Jew against another (Michoh 3:9-11)–dayanim judging for bribery, kohanim teaching for hire, neviyim prophesying for money, and the people taking Hashem for granted, expecting his protection should evil befall them–thereby leading to the destruction of the Second Temple (Michoh 3:12). In terms of the korbanos being offered in vain, see Hosea 8:13, which prophesies the Jewish People being sent back into Egypt (also found in D'vorim 28:68). This was fulfilled in the destruction of the Second Temple (under Titus HaRasha) and the fall of Bethar in the aftermath of the Bar Kochba revolt (under Hadrian), whereby Jewish slaves were sent into Egypt by the Romans by way of galley.

And just to be clear: Jews have 130 commandments directly related to bringing sacrifices in the Bais Hamikdosh. We are instructed by Hashem to bring sacrifices under a whole variety of conditions, not all of them indicating atonement. As for instance, the sacrifice on Pesach has nothing to do with sin. On the contrary; it was a sacrifice you brought when you were d'vaikus b'Hashem (whole with G-d). It meant that you trusted in the G-d of Israel, and that you did not fear the Egyptians who would have slaughtered you for putting one of their idols (sheep) to death. The Pesach sacrifice had everything to do with raising up the physical (man) to the Heavenly (Hashem). The word for sacrifice in Hebrew is קרבן or 'korban', which comes from the root קרב or 'korov', meaning "to come close". The Kli Yokor explains that Nisan (the month of Pesach) is the month when the sun is in the constellation Aries, a sheep. And we know from the Torah that the Egyptians worshiped sheep (B'raishis 46:34, Shmois 8:22). By slaughtering a sheep in the month of Nisan, when the sun is in the constellation Aries, a sheep, Hashem was showing the Egyptians his power over their gods. This connection also helps us understand how counting Nisan (the month of the sheep) as the first month helps us remember Yetzius Mitzroyim, the Exodus from Egypt.

I wouldn’t say Jews were rejected by god. But god definitely opened things up to the rest of the world considering Jews rejected the son and by default rejected the “Father” unknowingly

Jews ARE the son. That doesn't make us G-d, though; nor part of any triune godhead. Hashem explicitly states in both the Torah (Shmois 4:22; D'vorim 14:1) and throughout the prophets (e.g., Yirmeyohu 31:8) that Israel is His son. Individually, Dovid Hamelech (T'hilim 2:7; 89:27-28) and Shlomo Hamelech (Shmuel B 7:12-14; Divrei Hayomim A 22:9-10) are called His son. So, yes, Yoshke is a son, just as any one Jew is. But he is not the son, as in 1/3 of a triune godhead as Xianity purports. (The trinity is not attested to in the Jewish Scriptures. The problem is people are reading these texts out of some Xtological instruction manual used to convert Jews.) Hashem is not mortal, He is not a man. Therefore to reject Yoshke as our messiah is not to reject Ovinu Shebashomoyim (our Father in Heaven).

But you should know God is always ready to take back his “prodigal son”

We never left...

The suffering of the Jew is a phenomenon from On High, an enactment of the admonishment which Klal Yisroel carries upon its shoulders as an integral part of being the Om Honivchor.

The suffering of the Jewish People is really a proof of the RBS"O's love for us:

"You only have I known from all the families of the world, therefore I will visit upon you the cause of your iniquities. (Amos 3:2)"
​

G-d adores the Jewish People as a father does his own son. And he treats them as His children:

"And you shall consider in your heart, that as a man chastens his son, so Hashem, your G-d, chastens you. (D'vorim 8:5)"​

All the punishments and the exiles are not from hatred or rejection, but as a father chastens a son. A father does not strike his son to cause him pain, but so that he improves his ways in order to prevent worse from happening.

That is the story of the Old Testament in a nutshell

God never will never forget his “chosen people”.

Off topic, I have never heard of the concept of “unintentional sin”

Maybe You can explain how that is even possible?

The concept of unintentional sin is first introduced in the Torah in Voyikroh (Leviticus) 4:1-3, 27ff., 5:15; and appears later in B'midbor (Numbers) 15:22-29. An unintentional sin is a sin in which a person wasn't careful, perhaps he was acting inadvertently or in ignorance (but not deliberately, not out of rebellion) and should have been more cautious, ergo once his transgressions are acknowledged he must rectify that ladder which he has created. Now if a person is in rebellion against Hashem and is thus deliberately making aveyros, an animal sacrifice won't help him, as blood sacrifice works for forgiveness for one type of sin, unintentional sin. He must do tshuva. An example of unintentional sin would be: Moishe wakes up in the morning like any other morning and cooks his breakfast on the stove. He hears a knock on the door and goes to answer it. It's his neighbor, Itzhik. Itzhik says "Moishe, it's time to go to sh[ul].... Moishe!! What are you doing?! The stove!! It's Shabbes!" "Givald!!", Moishe responds. "I didn't realize it was Shabbes!" (Burning a fire is prohibited for a Jew on the Shabbes (Shmois 35:2-3). In the prophets, we see Yeshayohu Hanovi chastising the people for doing just that.) If the Temple were standing, Moishe would have to bring a kosher animal for a sin-offering to the kohein, for korbanos expiate unintentional sin.

 

[Koichos]

@DoubleClutchThat diagram of the texts I posted earlier is important as it shows that the LXX (Orthodox) is older than the Latin Vulgate (Catholics) which is then older than the Masoretic Texts (Rabbinical Judaism)

In relation to the Septuagint (or even the Targum for that matter), the period in which the Masorites created nikkud is tangential. The Hebrew Masoretic text is not a translation; it is a vowel system established to emulate the oral tradition of pronunciation. A Saifer Torah (Handwritten Hebrew Torah Scroll) consists of no such nikkud (vowels) or full stops. There are no (written) vowels in Biblical Hebrew since it is a purely consonantal language. In Biblical Hebrew, the differentiation between heteronyms is a matter of vowelization, which, until the Masorites, was kept entirely oral. Our Torah was committed to writing without vowels, or any marks to show the ends of sentences. So in order to know when to stop, and how each word was pronounced, you had to know the oral tradition. Without the tradition telling which vowels belong where, and when the reading of the text (read tradition) changes from the written text (written tradition), we are lost. Anybody who has even the most superficial perfunctory knowledge of the Hebrew language knows exactly what I am talking about. Translators rely on the Masoretic text with nikkud (read tradition) instead of the purely consonantal text of the Saifer Torah (written tradition) because the oral tradition of pronunciation is unique to the Jews. Without the nikkud, translating the Hebrew is unrealistic.

Spoiler

Let's take a look at Shmois 34:23:

שלש פעמים בשנה יראה—Shaloish P'amim ba'Shana Y...—Three times a year, he shall .... (Ex. 34:23)."​

There are four options here:

1. Yirah (יראה) - fear. So three times a year, he shall fear.
2. Yireh (יראה) - see. So three times a year, he shall see.
3. Yarah (יראה) - show. So three times a year, he shall show.
4. Yera'eh (יראה) - appear. So three times a year, he shall appear.​

Now this is dealing with a verse in the Torah that has Halochic implications. What does it mean? Does it mean he shall show, he shall see, he shall appear? What does it mean? In order to understand it, you must know which vowels belong where, as it changes the entire meaning of the word. It is impossible to read it otherwise; each one of these four words is spelled exactly the same in Hebrew (י-ר-א-ה, yud-reish-alef-hei). The distinguishing factor is a matter of vowelization (*No vowel marks are used in the Hebrew text of this example, or the three below. This is how the Saifer Torah is written).

Shmois 34:23 should read:

שלש פעמים בשנה יראה—Shaloish P'amim ba'Shana Yera'eh—Three times a year, he shall appear (Ex. 34:23)."​

And we know this only because of the oral tradition. What the Masorites did was create written markings (nikkud) representing the orally transmitted read tradition passed down since Moshe Rabeinu.

====================================================================

Here is another example we find in Shmois 34:26, 23:19; D'vorim 14:21

"לא תבשל גדי בחלב אמו—Loy Tevoshel Gedi ba'Ch.... Imo—You shall not cook a kid in its mother's.... (Ex. 23:19, 34:26; Deut. 14:21)."​

There are two options:

1. Cholov (חלב) - milk. You shall not cook a kid in its mother's milk.
2. Chelev (חלב) - fat. You shall not cook a kid in its mother's fat.​

This verse also has Halochic implications, and is repeated three times in the Torah. And like above, these words are spelled exactly the same in Hebrew (ח-ל-ב, ches-lamed-bais). Only because of the oral tradition do we know the word should read, Cholov, 'milk'.

"לא תבשל גדי בחלב אמו—Loy Tevoshel Gedi ba'Cholov Imo—You shall not cook a kid in its mother's milk (Ex. 23:19, 34:26; Deut. 14:21)."​

====================================================================

Similarly:

"ולא ילין חלב חגי עד בקר—v'Loy Yalin Ch.... Chagi Ad Boker—The .... of My festive sacrifice shall not stay overnight until morning (Ex. 23:16)."​

There are two options:

1. Cholov (חלב) - milk. You shall not leave milk overnight
2. Chelev (חלב) - fat. You shall not leave fat overnight​

Here is another verse with Halochic implications dealing with the laws of kashrus. Now, common sense would tell us, Cholov, 'milk' (you shall not leave milk overnight); but the vowelization calls for the pronunciation of Chelev, 'fat'.

"ולא ילין חלב חגי עד בקר—v'Loy Yalin Chelev Chagi Ad Boker—The fat of My festive sacrifice shall not stay overnight until morning (Ex. 23:16)."​

​

In fact, to this day it is forbidden for ANY such markings to be added to a Saifer Torah. It would be considered פסול or 'posl' (unfit) and discarded (entombed). And yet the Masoretic version, the orally transmitted traditional version found in the Chumesh (the printed book of Torah with nikkud or vowels) is that which is unanimously followed as the valid translatory text. Anyone who would doubt this need only look at Yeshayohu 63:9. In this verse the Masora tells us that there is a word that is written one way (written tradition), but that the tradition says must be read another way (read tradition). All translators agree to the translation based on the traditional Masoretic reading (read tradition): בְּכָל-צָרָתָם (לוֹ) צָר B'chul Tzorasam (Loy) Tzor "In their afflictions (He) was afflicted." But that is NOT what is actually written. If you translated the words as written according to the Saifer Torah (written tradition), they would read: בכל צרתם (לא) צר B'chul Tzorasam (Loy) Tzor "In their afflictions that (were not) afflictions." ALL translators rely upon our oral tradition and affirm that the Jews have the true tradition from Moshe Rabeinu and the prophets. Virtually every Xian bible follows our oral tradition completely (they follow our vowels). They say, "We don't believe in 'Rabbinic' Judaism". But they can not actually READ their bible without our oral tradition.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I'm not understanding the correlation between Yoshke, and Eretz Yisroel as the divinely ordained destiny of the Jewish People as appointed by Hashem. Jews are commanded by Torah law (Shmois 19:6) to establish a state in Eretz Yisroel; that is an essential command of the Torah. And this is in fact what is said to the Jewish People just before receiving the Torah. The word used is ממלכה (mamlacha), which is usually translated as 'kingdom'. But really, in modern parlance we would translate this as a state. There is no word for a 'state' in the Tenach. To give a contemporary example, the word מדינה (medina) that we use in Modern Hebrew for a state, in scripture means a large walled city, usually a capital city or a regional capital city; a large city with a wall around it. In the time of the Jewish Scriptures, there were no states that were not kingdoms. Every state was a kingdom, a ממלכה (mamlacha). This is also the case in Yiddish. When the State of Israel was revived in 1948, there was a Yiddish newspaper in Israel at the time. The Yiddish headline read: א יידישע מלוכה or 'Ah Yiddishe Melikhe' (A Jewish Kingdom). Like Biblical Hebrew, there is no word in the Yiddish language for a state. The word that we use for a state in Yiddish is מלוכה (melikhe), from the Hebrew word for king, מלך (melekh), like the Biblical Hebrew ממלכה (mamlacha).

Jewish identity is rooted in the Jewish Scriptures only. Without the Jewish Holy Scriptures you can not even imagine a Jewish identity. Without Tenach, there are no Jews. And without Tenach we do not have a right to settle in Israel. The so called "Balfour Declaration" is just a secular formulation and confirmation of the biblical claim of the Jews to live in the land of Israel. The secular tziyoinim of history were obviously pawns Hashem used through dispensation to achieve His will. The Kingdom of Israel then, is no different than the State of Israel today. Both began in a rebellious and non-halochic way, both were/are run not according to the guidelines of the Torah, and both had reshoim (or at least non-observant tinokos shenishbo) leading the government (whether it was a king or a prime minister). Still, Hashem intended, earmarked Eretz Yisroel for the Jewish People. And when we have it, we are not permitted to give it away. The story of Creation is told first to establish the fact that the ENTIRE WORLD belongs to Him. And only HE has the right to apportion the Holy Land. Eretz Yisroel was promised as the exclusive inheritance for Klal Yisroel as the covenant with Avrohom, Yitzchok, and Yaakov. It is the Biblical Homeland of the Jewish People and no lies and accusations by the nations of the world can change a fundamental truth.


Hashem tests the righteous (T'hilim 11:6); that is the point: mesirus nefesh, self-sacrifice. After Avrohom Ovinu demonstrates the depth of his trust and commitment to Hashem with his willingness to sacrifice Yitzchok despite it being an aveyro (remember, Avrohom kept the mitzvos orally, long before Moshe at Sinai (B'raishis 26:5)), Hashem commands Avrohom, saying, "Do not stretch forth your hand to the boy, nor do the slightest thing to him, for now I know that you fear G-d, and you did not withhold your son, your favored one, from Me" (B'raishis 22:12). Hashem makes it clear that He does NOT want us to offer human sacrifices to Him. This is replete throughout the Torah. The Torah expressly forbids human sacrifice, a pagan practice, and calls it a 'תועבת ה or 'toieivus Hashem' (abomination to G-d) (D'vorim 12:30-31). And yes, "hate", as it is written: "לא תעשה כן ליהוה אלהיך כי כל תועבת ה' אשר שנא עשו לאלהיהם כי גם את בניהם ואת בנתיהם ישרפו באש לאלהיהם—You shall not do so toward Hashem your G-d; for every abomination to Hashem that He hates, they did to their gods; they even offer up their sons and daughters in fire to their gods" (ibid. 12:31). Jews are to serve Hashem by living a G-dly life (observing the mitzvos) and giving life to others, not by murdering. Judaism celebrates life and mourns death, not the other way around.


Yes, but for unintentional sin. And blood from the likes of kosher animals, not humans. And the atonement is for oneself, not others.


Hashem did not change His mind. He kept His promise concerning the blessings and curses. When the aveyros reach a certain point and the land is defiled because of it, the land "vomits" its inhabitants (Voyikroh 18:25, 28), just as it did to the C'na'anim before it was given to the Jewish People. The korbanos were designated to take place in the Bais Hamikdosh with the kohanim. Therefore, when there is no Bais Hamikdosh, the sacrificial system is put on hold. In point of fact, our prophets foretold that the Second Temple would be destroyed (Michoh 3:12). Michoh lived roughly 800 years earlier. Michoh lived in the time of Yeshayohu and Hoshea in the First Temple Period. They lived when the First Temple was standing, and foretold that the Temple Mount would be utter desolation, akin to that of a forest. Comes Hoshea who prophesies that tefilah/prayer will replace the korbanos/sin-offerings while in golus (Hoshea 14:2-3). And Yechezkel tells us that the sacrificial system will be reinstituted in the messianic era (Yechezkel 43:21), and that Moshiach himself will bring an animal sin-offering on behalf of himself and the Jewish nation (Yechezkel 45:22). In accordance with the Torah that blood sacrifice atones for unintentional sin (Voyikroh 4:2), Moshiach will bring the korban for unintentional sin (as is described in Yechezkel 45:20).

But tshuvah/repentance and tefillah/prayer were always part of atonement. If a person is in rebellion against Hashem, an animal sacrifice won't help him, as blood only atones for unintentional sin. He must do tshuvah. If someone steals and he's caught, he must repay; there is no sacrifice that could be brought for such an act. Actually, the institution of tefillah long predates the Temple, even the revelation at Sinai. The three daily tefillos of the shemona esrei were instituted by our forefathers. Avrohom Ovinu instituted the morning tefilla (shachris); Yitzchok the afternoon tefilla (mincho); and Yaakov the evening tefilla (arvit/ma'ariv). These daily tefillos correspond with the two daily Temple sacrifices: one in the morning (corresponding to shachris), one in the afternoon (corresponding to mincho), and the afternoon offering which consisted of the burning of the limbs, which would take place throughout the night (corresponding to arvit/ma'ariv). This explains why on days like Shabes or Yom Tovs (holidays) when additional sacrifices in the Temple were offered, we have an additional tefillah (musaf). So six days of the week we have shachris, mincho and ma'ariv (corresponding to the three daily sacrifices in the Temple), and on Shabes and Yom Tovs we have shachris, mincho, ma'ariv and musaf (corresponding to the additional sacrifices).


During the end of the Second Temple Period the Bais Hamikdosh was rife with sinos chinon, that is baseless hatred, one Jew against another (Michoh 3:9-11)–dayanim judging for bribery, kohanim teaching for hire, neviyim prophesying for money, and the people taking Hashem for granted, expecting his protection should evil befall them–thereby leading to the destruction of the Second Temple (Michoh 3:12). In terms of the korbanos being offered in vain, see Hosea 8:13, which prophesies the Jewish People being sent back into Egypt (also found in D'vorim 28:68). This was fulfilled in the destruction of the Second Temple (under Titus HaRasha) and the fall of Bethar in the aftermath of the Bar Kochba revolt (under Hadrian), whereby Jewish slaves were sent into Egypt by the Romans by way of galley.

And just to be clear: Jews have 130 commandments directly related to bringing sacrifices in the Bais Hamikdosh. We are instructed by Hashem to bring sacrifices under a whole variety of conditions, not all of them indicating atonement. As for instance, the sacrifice on Pesach has nothing to do with sin. On the contrary; it was a sacrifice you brought when you were d'vaikus b'Hashem (whole with G-d). It meant that you trusted in the G-d of Israel, and that you did not fear the Egyptians who would have slaughtered you for putting one of their idols (sheep) to death. The Pesach sacrifice had everything to do with raising up the physical (man) to the Heavenly (Hashem). The word for sacrifice in Hebrew is קרבן or 'korban', which comes from the root קרב or 'korov', meaning "to come close". The Kli Yokor explains that Nisan (the month of Pesach) is the month when the sun is in the constellation Aries, a sheep. And we know from the Torah that the Egyptians worshiped sheep (B'raishis 46:34, Shmois 8:22). By slaughtering a sheep in the month of Nisan, when the sun is in the constellation Aries, a sheep, Hashem was showing the Egyptians his power over their gods. This connection also helps us understand how counting Nisan (the month of the sheep) as the first month helps us remember Yetzius Mitzroyim, the Exodus from Egypt.

G-d adores the Jewish People as a father does his own son. And he treats them as His children:

"And you shall consider in your heart, that as a man chastens his son, so Hashem, your G-d, chastens you. (D'vorim 8:5)"​

The concept of unintentional sin is first introduced in the Torah in Voyikroh (Leviticus) 4:1-3, 27ff., 5:15; and appears later in B'midbor (Numbers) 15:22-29. An unintentional sin is a sin in which a person wasn't careful, perhaps he was acting inadvertently or in ignorance (but not deliberately, not out of rebellion) and should have been more cautious, ergo once his transgressions are acknowledged he must rectify that ladder which he has created. Now if a person is in rebellion against Hashem and is thus deliberately making aveyros, an animal sacrifice won't help him, as blood sacrifice works for forgiveness for one type of sin, unintentional sin. He must do tshuva. An example of unintentional sin would be: Moishe wakes up in the morning like any other morning and cooks his breakfast on the stove. He hears a knock on the door and goes to answer it. It's his neighbor, Itzhik. Itzhik says "Moishe, it's time to go to sh[ul].... Moishe!! What are you doing?! The stove!! It's Shabbes!" "Givald!!", Moishe responds. "I didn't realize it was Shabbes!" (Burning a fire is prohibited for a Jew on the Shabbes (Shmois 35:2-3). In the prophets, we see Yeshayohu Hanovi chastising the people for doing just that.) If the Temple were standing, Moishe would have to bring a kosher animal for a sin-offering to the kohein, for korbanos expiate unintentional sin.

I was more talking hypothetically in a historical way disregarding religion

Jewish people land wasn’t conquered by Muslims because Christians fought them off

Not all Jews race share the religious beliefs and further not all people living in Palestine believe in the Biblical idea of a “holy land” belonging to anyone by God. They’re just living life.

It’s mostly politics and human rights issues at the center of the conflict

I know little about Israel today, never been but from what I see and hear it’s very much a secular and wicked state by by Gods standards

Not much of a “kingdom” comparable to what god envisioned and what Israelites had in the Old Testament

In contrast Jesus said a lot about the “ kingdom of god” which isn’t exactly physical... but that’s another topic

My point is, HISTORICALLY how everything unfolded and if everything happens for a reason, just the fact that Jesus was accepted by so many, Christianity grew and spread all over the world has mad it possible for Jews today to reap many benefits indirectly one of them being their own state (kingdom) and help from the USA (the most powerful Christian nation in the world)

Regarding sacrifices and Jesus

The problem you have is looking a Jesus from a literal Jewish religious perspective

You’re making a simple thing complex

Temple sacrifices foreshadow Jesus, it’s all symbolic with Jesus being:

“Lamb of god” “2nd Adam” “without sin”, “blood shed” etc.. all are OT Bible imagery that point towards sacrifices

You don’t have to make the literal connections and compare it to Jewish ideas of sin and nitpick it. and Jesus wasn’t a “literal” 1 time human sacrifice for sin in any sense of pagan religious practices. But you get the idea. Plus it’s also meant to Fulfill prophecy.

You can’t keep taking everything so literal and comparing it to Jewish scripture/thought

Jesus time and the time of the Torah are different eras.

Jesus role in salvation for everyone is more about his death, resurrection and ascension than him just being crucified on the cross.

Jesus says you must be born again with water/spirit ( you can look up the scriptures and read to understand for yourself) and basically that’s the process of forgiveness and living a new life free from sin.

Christians believe baptism is symbolic of death burial and new life and washing away of sins.But first you must repent. Same like In Judaism

It’s tshuvah like you say right? For intentional sin?

In Christianity you gotta repent same way Jews do FIRST then get baptized. Then believe in God sent Jesus which believing in forgives your “unintentional” sins as you continue to try to live right.

Otherwise there’s nothing you can do to be considered “righteous” not good deeds, praying 5 times a day etc....

No man is good and can live without sinning like Jesus said.

That’s we we need on going/forever forgiveness you gotta pray to God for just like Jewish people who kept up practicing the religion in exile had to pray to GOD.

Now that you introduced it, I actually Prefer the Jewish concept of unintentional/intentional sin because it’s clear those committing intentional sin (with no remorse) have “strayed from god” by definition in Judaism whether they know it or not and whether they believe in God or not.

We’re all Gods children but most have strayed away right?

But A “Good Jew” even Lets say a priest can’t live a life committing intentional sin, and doing teshuvah everyday and be respected can he?

He’d be a hypocrite the same way many people look at black Christian preachers in the hood.

But korov keeps you close to God, like prayer is supposed to. Jesus essentially came to give Korov

Now let me ask, if a Christian and Jew are praying to God for forgiveness and Jesus says “the only way to the father is through me” then whose prayers are getting heard and accepted 100% for sure?

If we Christians have Jesus as a “middle man /advocate” on behalf of God, then what’s the difference between Jews praying to Hashemand Muslims praying to the same God (as they claim) is neither of you need to believe in Jesus?

 

[DoubleClutch]

Also on the subject of Jesus being messiah/lord

Tell me what these scriptures mean to you:

In psalms 110 David says:

The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Later in Matthew 22:45 Jesus quotes David and responds:

If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"

Maybe you can give the Jewish perspective (then and now) and the reaction to Christians interpretation of these scriptures.

 

[Koichos]

Also on the subject of Jesus being messiah/lord

Tell me what these scriptures mean to you:

In psalms 110 David says:

The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Later in Matthew 22:45 Jesus quotes David and responds:

If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"

Maybe you can give the Jewish perspective (then and now) and the reaction to Christians interpretation of these scriptures.

The Hebrew word אדני can be pointed (vowelized) in three distinct ways. All three forms are used as terms of address regardless of nikkud (vowels): The first one is singular and has the possessive suffix 'my' added to it (חיריק [single dot] under the letter אֲדֹנִי) נ adonee - "my [human] master")); the second form is plural, again with the possessive suffix 'my' added to it (פתח [horizontal line] under the letter אֲדֹנַי) נ adonai - "my [human] masters")); the third form has its own special grammatical construction specifically used for the name of Hashem (קמץ [uppercase T] under the letter אֲדֹנָי) נ adonoi - "my Lord-of-all-things" = Hashem)). Note: Sefardim don't differentiate between the קמץ and פתח (with few exceptions), so they pronounce the second and third forms as 'adonai'; whereas Ashkenazim/Temanim differentiate between the קמץ and פתח and therefore pronounce these two forms as 'adonai' ("my [human] masters") and 'adonoi' (Hashem). In conversation we say 'Hashem'; but in prayer, we always pronounce the four-letter name of G-d, י-ה-ו-ה, as 'adonoi' or 'adonai'.

With respect to T'hilim 110:1, the Xian Bible corrupted the texts to comport with a bogus story in the synoptic gospels. The original Hebrew clearly uses the nikkud חיריק, a single dot under the letter נ of אדֹנִי, creating the pronunciation 'adonee' (my [human] master).

לְדָוִ֗ד מִזְמוֹר נְאֻם י-ה-ו-ה | לַאדֹנִי שֵׁב לִימִינִי עַד-אָשִׁית אֹיְבֶיךָ הֲדֹם לְרַגְלֶיךָ l'dovid mizmor n'oom adonoi l'adonee shev limini ad ashis oyveicha hadom l'ragleicha​

The first 'Lord' (Adonoi) is G-d, the second 'lord' (Adonee) is Dovid. 'Adonee' is always "my [human] master", addressing someone of importance. It is a way of showing honor. In B'raishis (32:5) Yaakov refers to his brother Eisuv as 'adonee' when sending messengers to speak to him in Seir: "כֹּה תֹאמְרוּן לַאדֹנִי לְעֵשָׂו—ko somroon l'adonee l'Eisuv—Thus you shall say to my lord (אדֹנִי) Eisuv." The Hebrew word אדֹנִי or 'adonee' does NOT refer to G-d. The consonants א-ד-נ-י have their own special grammatical construction specifically used for the name of G-d (קמץ), and that is not how it is used here. The literal translation of T'hilim 110:1 is thus: "G-d said to my master". Dovid is not the one speaking, he is the indirect object. Those who sing these liturgical compositions (psalms) are the choir of the leviyim in the Temple, led by the leader of the choir, usually a kohein but not always. He is, however, always a levite. The psalm here is referring to Dovid being under G-d's protection, recited by the leader of the choir: "The Lord (G-d) said to my lord (Dovid)"—G-d said to Dovid..

The translation "the LORD said to my Lord" in T'hilim 110:1 does not fit the original Hebrew text. Xians misinterpret the Hebrew and capitalize the 'L' in order the insert the notion that the second figure is also a Divine being (their messiah). However, there is not a single example in all of Tenach where the inseparable preposition ל attached to the חיריק-pointed אדני (i.e., לַאֲדֹנִי) is used to mean "to my G-d". לַאֲדֹנִי appears twenty or so times throughout Tenach and ALWAYS refers to a human being. It simply means, "to my [human] master".

Spoiler

B'raishis 24:36 "Sorah bore a son to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Avrohom]"
B'raishis 24:54 "I will go to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Avrohom]"
B'raishis 24:56 "Send me away to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Avrohom]"
B'raishis 32:5 "So shall you say to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי), to Eisuv"
B'raishis 32:6 "I send this message to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Eisuv]"
B'raishis 32:19 "They are a gift sent to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי), to Eisuv"
B'raishis 44:9 "We will be slaves to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]
B'raishis 44:16 "What shall we say to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]"
B'raishis 44:16 "We are slaves to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]"
B'raishis 44:33 "A slave to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]
Shmuel A 24:7 "That I should do this thing to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]
Shmuel A 25:27 "This gift which your handmaid has brought to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel A 25:28 "The Lord [G-d] shall grant to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid] an enduring house"
Shmuel A 25:30 "And it will be, when the Lord [G-d] will do to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel A 25:31 "Let this not be...a stumblingblock...to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]
Shmuel A 25:31 "The Lord [G-d] will do good to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel B 4:8 "And the Lord [G-d] has granted to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel B 19:29 "For all of my father's house were...deserving of death from my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Dovid]"
M'lochim A 1:2 "'Let them seek for my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Dovid] a virgin"
M'lochim A 1:2 "She shall lie in your lap, and it shall be warm for my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Dovid]'"
M'lochim A 18:13 "Was it not told to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Achav]"
M'lochim A 20:9 "Say to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Ben-Hadad]"
DH A 21:3 "Are they not all servants to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
T'hilim 110:1 "The Lord [G-d] said to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"

 

[DoubleClutch]

The Hebrew word אדני can be pointed (vowelized) in three distinct ways. All three forms are used as terms of address regardless of nikkud (vowels): The first one is singular and has the possessive suffix 'my' added to it (חיריק [single dot] under the letter אֲדֹנִי) נ adonee - "my [human] master")); the second form is plural, again with the possessive suffix 'my' added to it (פתח [horizontal line] under the letter אֲדֹנַי) נ adonai - "my [human] masters")); the third form has its own special grammatical construction specifically used for the name of Hashem (קמץ [uppercase T] under the letter אֲדֹנָי) נ adonoi - "my Lord-of-all-things" = Hashem)). Note: Sefardim don't differentiate between the קמץ and פתח (with few exceptions), so they pronounce the second and third forms as 'adonai'; whereas Ashkenazim/Temanim differentiate between the קמץ and פתח and therefore pronounce these two forms as 'adonai' ("my [human] masters") and 'adonoi' (Hashem). In conversation we say 'Hashem'; but in prayer, we always pronounce the four-letter name of G-d, י-ה-ו-ה, as 'adonoi' or 'adonai'.

With respect to T'hilim 110:1, the Xian Bible corrupted the texts to comport with a bogus story in the synoptic gospels. The original Hebrew clearly uses the nikkud חיריק, a single dot under the letter נ of אדֹנִי, creating the pronunciation 'adonee' (my [human] master).

לְדָוִ֗ד מִזְמוֹר נְאֻם י-ה-ו-ה | לַאדֹנִי שֵׁב לִימִינִי עַד-אָשִׁית אֹיְבֶיךָ הֲדֹם לְרַגְלֶיךָ l'dovid mizmor n'oom adonoi l'adonee shev limini ad ashis oyveicha hadom l'ragleicha​

The first 'Lord' (Adonoi) is G-d, the second 'lord' (Adonee) is Dovid. 'Adonee' is always "my [human] master", addressing someone of importance. It is a way of showing honor. In B'raishis (32:5) Yaakov refers to his brother Eisuv as 'adonee' when sending messengers to speak to him in Seir: "כֹּה תֹאמְרוּן לַאדֹנִי לְעֵשָׂו—ko somroon l'adonee l'Eisuv—Thus you shall say to my lord (אדֹנִי) Eisuv." The Hebrew word אדֹנִי or 'adonee' does NOT refer to G-d. The consonants א-ד-נ-י have their own special grammatical construction specifically used for the name of G-d (קמץ), and that is not how it is used here. The literal translation of T'hilim 110:1 is thus: "G-d said to my master". Dovid is not the one speaking, he is the indirect object. Those who sing these liturgical compositions (psalms) are the choir of the leviyim in the Temple, led by the leader of the choir, usually a kohein but not always. He is, however, always a levite. The psalm here is referring to Dovid being under G-d's protection, recited by the leader of the choir: "The Lord (G-d) said to my lord (Dovid)"—G-d said to Dovid..

The translation "the LORD said to my Lord" in T'hilim 110:1 does not fit the original Hebrew text. Xians misinterpret the Hebrew and capitalize the 'L' in order the insert the notion that the second figure is also a Divine being (their messiah). However, there is not a single example in all of Tenach where the inseparable preposition ל attached to the חיריק-pointed אדני (i.e., לַאֲדֹנִי) is used to mean "to my G-d". לַאֲדֹנִי appears twenty or so times throughout Tenach and ALWAYS refers to a human being. It simply means, "to my [human] master".

Spoiler

B'raishis 24:36 "Sorah bore a son to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Avrohom]"
B'raishis 24:54 "I will go to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Avrohom]"
B'raishis 24:56 "Send me away to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Avrohom]"
B'raishis 32:5 "So shall you say to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי), to Eisuv"
B'raishis 32:6 "I send this message to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Eisuv]"
B'raishis 32:19 "They are a gift sent to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי), to Eisuv"
B'raishis 44:9 "We will be slaves to my master (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]
B'raishis 44:16 "What shall we say to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]"
B'raishis 44:16 "We are slaves to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]"
B'raishis 44:33 "A slave to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Yosef]
Shmuel A 24:7 "That I should do this thing to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]
Shmuel A 25:27 "This gift which your handmaid has brought to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel A 25:28 "The Lord [G-d] shall grant to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid] an enduring house"
Shmuel A 25:30 "And it will be, when the Lord [G-d] will do to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel A 25:31 "Let this not be...a stumblingblock...to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]
Shmuel A 25:31 "The Lord [G-d] will do good to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel B 4:8 "And the Lord [G-d] has granted to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
Shmuel B 19:29 "For all of my father's house were...deserving of death from my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Dovid]"
M'lochim A 1:2 "'Let them seek for my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Dovid] a virgin"
M'lochim A 1:2 "She shall lie in your lap, and it shall be warm for my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Dovid]'"
M'lochim A 18:13 "Was it not told to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Achav]"
M'lochim A 20:9 "Say to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) the king [Ben-Hadad]"
DH A 21:3 "Are they not all servants to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"
T'hilim 110:1 "The Lord [G-d] said to my lord (לַאֲדֹנִי) [Dovid]"

I know the difference between LORD and Lord.

My question is if David is referring to the messiah or not.

Who is David (A King) calling Lord. That person would have to be greater than David, right?

Also everything you posted in here Jesus and Jews alive at the time would already known. So why quote it to prove a point?

Also you missed my previous post.

 

[Koichos]

I know the difference between LORD and Lord.

There is actually no difference between 'LORD' and 'Lord', contrary to what the Xian translations are insinuating (LORD as father (G-d) and Lord as son (Yoshke). Both refer to the four-letter name of G-d, י-ה-ו-ה. Some capitalize all four letters, some don't. It's a matter of typography. It's like saying 'GOD' and 'God', where the capital 'G' alone makes it clear the reference is Hashem. The difference is between 'LORD/Lord' (Hashem) and 'lord' (human). The Xian translations regarding T'hilim 110 generally capitalize the entirety of the first 'LORD', but also the 'L' in the second 'Lord', intentionally making it appear as though Hashem (LORD) is speaking to another Divine figure (Yoshke) who merits the title 'Lord' with a capital 'L'. But the original Hebrew does not call for the English rendering of "The LORD said to my Lord". The second אדֹנִי 'lord' is a human being as per the grammatical construction of the original Hebrew and shouldn't be capitalized. The English should read: "The LORD said to my lord". Some texts use 'master' instead of 'lord' as it removes all confusion.

My question is if David is referring to the messiah or not.

The reference is to Dovid himself. The entire psalm is written in third person.

Who is David (A King) calling Lord. That person would have to be greater than David, right?

No, because Dovid is the אדֹנִי in question. The opening Hebrew says לדוד, which means literally "to Dovid", not simply "composed by Dovid". He is the indirect object. T'hilim 110 was composed in the third person (as in T'hilim 18:51, "To Dovid and to his seed, forever"; or T'hilim 144:10, "He Who delivers Dovid, His servant") to be sung by the choir of the leviyim, and therefore reflects their perspective, for they would refer to Dovid Hamelech, their king, as אדֹנִי or 'adonee' (my lord). In Biblical Hebrew the Tenach uses the word 'adonee' more than 180 times, and in every occurrence it means "my lord" or "my master" and refers to a human being. With the inseparable preposition ל ("to") attached to the חיריק-pointed לַאֲדֹנִי) אדני), the meaning is "to my [human] master". The human master in T'hilim 110 is Dovid.

Also everything you posted in here Jesus and Jews alive at the time would already known. So why quote it to prove a point?

Apparently not, because Peter in Acts 2:34-36 makes the same mistake as Yoshke does in Matthew 22:42-45, and incorrectly assumes that T'hilim 110 is Dovid Hamelech speaking of Moshiach, when in fact it is the leader of the levite choir speaking of Dovid. Obviously someone quoting T'hilim 110 should know the difference between "adonee" (my human master) and "adonoi" (Hashem), but Peter doesn't, and the writer of Matthew doesn't. Nor do the writers of Mark (12:35-37) or Luke (20:41-44). On a side note, Peter makes another mistake and attributes Dovid Hamelech praising Hashem in T'hilim 16:8-11 to Dovid Hamelech praising Yoshke (Acts 2:24-30). The Xian bible is laden not only with mistranslations of the Jewish Scriptures, but pure invention (Hebrews 10:5-7 "body"; T'hilim 40:6 "ears").

Also you missed my previous post.

We were going into Shabbes. I only had so much time to respond.

 

[Koichos]

Not all Jews race share the religious beliefs and further not all people living in Palestine believe in the Biblical idea of a “holy land” belonging to anyone by God. They’re just living life.

It’s mostly politics and human rights issues at the center of the conflict

The conflict between Jews and Arabs is Biblical. It is the conflict between Yitzchok (Jews) and Yishmoel (Arabs).

Palestinian Arabs have an ideology of murder, destruction, extermination, and destroying Klal Yisroel and the Torah. Whatever they can do to support that war effort, they will do. They send their own children to blow themselves up on buses to do this even if it means the death of a single Jew (Itabach al-Yahud). Their civilization is based on blood, death, destruction, and hatred. To wit, here we are four millennia after the fact and still the Yishmoelim cannot help but act like the khayis they were prophesied to be, proving once again the truth of the Torah that one cannot live in peace with those described by Hashem as 'pir'e odom', as it is written: "v'hoo (Yishmoel) yihye pir'e odom yodo vo'kul". Since the Torah is eternal, one can be assured that the Yishmoeli will always be a wild beast of a man.

The syntactic structure of Hebrew, unlike English, dictates that the noun precede the adjective in an adjectival phrase. As for example, in English we say 'great man'. But in Hebrew, we say 'odom godol', with the noun 'odom' (man) preceding the adjective 'godol' (great). First we express the nature of the thing itself (odom) and then add the adjective which serves as a modifier (godol). But when the Tenach describes Yishmoel, the progenitor of the Arabs, as a 'pir'e' odom' (bestial man), the modifier 'pir'e' appears before the noun 'odom'. The wildness is not simply a modifying feature of Bnai Yishmoel. It is the very core of their being. Thus, in the phrase 'pir'e odom' the word 'pir'e' (untamed) is the noun, the nature of the thing itself; and the word 'odom' (man) is the modifier—a beast in the form of a man.

Esoterically, the topic of conflict with the Yishmoelim, the Arabs/Moslems, appears in the Zohar in countless places. The Zohar recounts that because Yishmoel was circumcised—although his circumcision is not perfect for they only circumcise without performing 'pri'oh' (uncovering the flesh under the foreskin)—therefore, the Bnai Yishmoel will receive authority over the land of Israel for a certain amount of time. The Zohar says that when the land will be devoid of its dwellers, they will rule the land of Israel, just as their bris is devoid of substance. 2,000 years ago the Zohar foretold that when we return to our land, we will find Arabs. There were crusaders who tried conquering the land, there were the Byzantines, etc., they all tried to conquer the land. But it was the Moslems, the Arabs, who persisted.

I know little about Israel today, never been but from what I see and hear it’s very much a secular and wicked state by by Gods standards

Not much of a “kingdom” comparable to what god envisioned and what Israelites had in the Old Testament

The Kingdom of Israel then, is no different than the State of Israel today. Both began in a rebellious and non-halochic way, both were/are run not according to the guidelines of the Torah, and both had reshoim (or at least non-observant tinokos shenishbo) leading the government (whether it was a king or a prime minister).

The Israel we encounter today comports perfectly with the Israel we find in Tenach. The kingdom did NOT split into Israel and Judah (nor did Israel and Judah go into golus) because we were keeping the mitzvos; quite the contrary. The kings sunk into a deep morass of idolatry and desecration, particularly the northern kingdom. It was not without rhyme or reason that the kingdom of Israel was called wicked. That much is clear. The Jewish Scriptures records every single wrong doing Klal Yisroel has done as a people. It is a major part of our being labeled Am Keshei Oref (first mentioned in Shmois 32:9 vis-à-vis the sin of the Golden calf). Hashem gave Eretz Yisroel to the Jewish People not because of our righteousness, but in order to fulfill His promise to Avrohom Yitzchok v'Ya'akov (D'vorim 9:5-6).

More than that, there is clear prophecy in a messianic passage of Yechezkel that until Milchemas Goig u'Magoig takes place, Hashem's name in the Land of Israel would be incessantly profaned (Chillul Hashem). There is another prophetic passage from Tzefanyoh that during the messianic era, and in preparation for the third Bais Hamikdosh, Hashem will withdraw from our midst (wipe out) those who exult in their 'pride' (Hebrew: עליזי alizai, גאוה ga'avo). The same two words in which the 'pride' paraders refer to themselves, alizim and ga'avo, are the same two words used here in the original Hebrew text referring to 'pride'. These are the words of Hashem Himself: "Ba'yom ha'hoo loy sevoishi mi'kul aliloteyich asher pashat bi ki az assir mikirbecho alizai ga'avotech v'loy soisifi l'govho oid b'har kodshi."

My point is, HISTORICALLY how everything unfolded and if everything happens for a reason, just the fact that Jesus was accepted by so many, Christianity grew and spread all over the world has mad it possible for Jews today to reap many benefits indirectly one of them being their own state (kingdom) and help from the USA (the most powerful Christian nation in the world)

The Torah states that the nations would be blessed in the Jewish People. From the beginning when Yaakov Ovinu, Yosef Hatzadik and the rest of B'nai Yisroel descended to Egypt, it is clear that wherever the Jews go they are the highlight of the place; for which reason every king (or today, president or prime minister), even in nations in which it has come to expulsions and forced conversions, has a Jew at his side. Every nation that hosts the Jews becomes a powerhouse of a nation regardless of its inevitable antisemitism. As long as Jews live in the America, America will remain a superpower. The Diaspora is most concentrated in the United States, which means whatever happens to Jews in Israel is the concern of Jews in America—and by extension, America. The Jewish People are one organic unit. Regardless of where we are living we have a responsibility for our Jewish family across the globe. As the millennia-old Aramaic adage goes: כל ישראל ערבים זה בזה, "All Jews are responsible one for another"; we are a single entity that share a common destiny and thus are mechiyav in being our brothers' keepers. Hashem protects Israel and chooses who to facilitate that process. It is no accident that He continues to select the nation containing the largest Jewish population outside of Israel. It is all yad Hashem, the hand of G-d.

Temple sacrifices foreshadow Jesus, it’s all symbolic with Jesus being:

“Lamb of god” “2nd Adam” “without sin”, “blood shed” etc.. all are OT Bible imagery that point towards sacrifices

No, they don't. And no, it isn't. This is a classic case of first shooting the arrow, then drawing the bullseye around it. This is almost as absurd as the Xian claim that the Pesach matzo on the Seder plate foreshadows Yoshke. There are three pieces of matzos that go on a Seder plate. There is matzo 1 (father), matzo 2 (son), matzo 3 (spirit). The middle matzo (son) is the one taken out and turned into the affikoman, the dessert. It is broken in half and hidden, and brought back out for dessert at the end of the meal. Xians say the breaking of matzo 2 (son) represents the crucifixion of Yoshke; the hiding of it in a cloth represents Yoshke being hidden in shrouds when he was buried; bringing the matzo back out represents the resurrection, Yoshke being raised from the dead. They will further point you to the matzo's stripes and holes. The stripes on the matzo represent the stripes on the back of Yoshke when he was whipped, beaten, and scourged by the Romans for our sins; the holes represent the nails in Yoshke's hands and his feet. Therefore we find Yoshke in Pesach.

You don’t have to make the literal connections and compare it to Jewish ideas of sin and nitpick it. and Jesus wasn’t a “literal” 1 time human sacrifice for sin in any sense of pagan religious practices. But you get the idea. Plus it’s also meant to Fulfill prophecy.

The Xian idea of the messiah is far closer to the pagan notion of a dying/saving man/god than to the Jewish understanding of Moshiach. There is no basis in Tenach for human sacrifice bearing the sins of mankind. It wholly contradicts the Torah (D'vorim 24:16).

You can’t keep taking everything so literal and comparing it to Jewish scripture/thought

Jesus time and the time of the Torah are different eras.

Jesus role in salvation for everyone is more about his death, resurrection and ascension than him just being crucified on the cross.

There is no salvation in Yoshke. Hashem alone forgives sin (Yeshayohu 43:25, 55:7; Shmuel B 12:13; Divrei Hayomim B 7:15), and aside from Hashem there is no Savior (Yeshayohu 43:11).

Jesus says you must be born again with water/spirit ( you can look up the scriptures and read to understand for yourself) and basically that’s the process of forgiveness and living a new life free from sin.

Christians believe baptism is symbolic of death burial and new life and washing away of sins.But first you must repent. Same like In Judaism

Baptism is but a corrupted version of the mikveh repackaged in Xtological wrap.

It’s tshuvah like you say right? For intentional sin?

Tshuva works for all sin.

In Christianity you gotta repent same way Jews do FIRST then get baptized. Then believe in God sent Jesus which believing in forgives your “unintentional” sins as you continue to try to live right.

Otherwise there’s nothing you can do to be considered “righteous” not good deeds, praying 5 times a day etc....

Not in Judaism. One can do tshuva without going to the mikveh. And tzadikim are ubiquitous among the frum, all of whom have made aveyros. Also, we only daven five times a day on Yom Kippur.

Now let me ask, if a Christian and Jew are praying to God for forgiveness and Jesus says “the only way to the father is through me”

Davening in Yoshke's name makes him an intermediary which is forbidden for a Jew. Davening to or 'through' Yoshke was not a spiritual experience known to our forefathers at Har Sinai, hence it is against Torah Law (D'vorim 13:7-9). Jews do not require an intercessor when davening. We have a direct line to Hashem through our neshumos alone. In Judaism there is a concept called 'שתוף' (to associate other powers to G-d). A Jew is not permitted to do that (D'vorim 4:15-19, 4:35, 4:39; Voyikroh 22:32). For a gentile, however, as long as he accepts the supremacy of G-d the Al-mighty, if he wants to believe that G-d works through an intercessor, or has some other intermediate powers, there is nothing in the Torah forbidding a gentile to believe that. For a Jew, Xianity is outright idolatry—'שתוף' at best.

then whose prayers are getting heard and accepted 100% for sure?

The neshuma of the Jew is the highest neshuma in creation, a chailik Elokoh mi'mo'ol momosh no matter how far it falls from Torah observance. Jews have this enigmatic bond with Hashem: He exists for us as much in denial as in acceptance—and in some ways, even more so. There are 7 to 613 covenant connectors with which to elevate our neshumos. Hashem gave the Torah to the Jewish People, and with it, a higher purpose. Jews have a greater vocation in life and thus a necessarily unparalleled connection to the Ribboinoi Shel Oilom—a Divine relationship influenced and necessitated by the additional commandments required of a Jew over a Gentile, and the corresponding ability to actualize those requirements. A Jew's relationship with Hashem is innate and therefore irrespective of his belief in Judaism. It is determined by the nefesh ho'eloiqiss, the unique neshuma of the Jew that is given by Hashem through the Jewish mother. Many of our tefillos are in Aramaic as opposed to Hebrew, for Aramaic is a direct line to Hashem without intervention of malachim.

If we Christians have Jesus as a “middle man /advocate” on behalf of God, then what’s the difference between Jews praying to Hashemand Muslims praying to the same God (as they claim) is neither of you need to believe in Jesus?

Both modes of worship, Xian and Moslem, are foreign to the Torah. The difference is the Xian doctrine on the nature of G-d is complete idolatry. The Moslem doctrine on the nature of G-d is not idolatry. However, they indulge in avodo zoro or foreign worship, paganistic rituals foreign to the Torah. For example, ramy al-jamarāt (stoning of the devil) is a foreign mode of worship; and the ritual of tatbir (bloodletting) on Ashura is a pagan practice explicitly forbidden in the Torah (D'vorim 14:1). Accordingly, Jews are forbidden to simply step foot into a Xian church for it is the same as a Hindu temple, a house of idolatry. On the other hand, the Mosque, unlike the church, is not considered a house of idolatry, given the fact that Islam itself is not idolatrous. A Jew is therefore permitted to enter and even daven (strictly Jewish tefllos and customs, of course) in a Mosque. Xianity chews the cud but does not have a cleft hoof (outright idolatry); Islam has a cleft hoof but does not chew the cud (veiled foreign worship). Islam is like the pig who shows his hooves to claim he's kosher.