The Little Known Biblical Curse of Egypt by Isaiah

[Koichos]

I get what you’re saying but I think you’re letting your “Jewishness” cloud your views and shape your perspective on Christianity and Jesus being accepted by so many people.

Using his being accepted by many as grounds for him being Moshiach is a fallacious argument.

I know it’s just a hard thing to accept or comprehend probably as much now as 2000 years ago

But you shouldn’t look at Christianity like a new religion, opposition to Judaism a contradiction of to or abandonment of your Jewish faith/history/culture/teachings etc...

Xianity is absolutely a new religion; its core tenets are diametrically opposed to Judaism. As an example, in Judaism there is no 'anti-Moshiach' who is going to 'dupe' the world into thinking he is Moshiach as the Xians (and Moslems) claim. It is antithetical to Judaism and no such concept exists in Tenach. Further, it is Xtianity who claims that Hashem assumed a physical form (cf. D'vorim 4:15) and took on flesh (cf. B'midbor 23:19, Shmuel A 15:29, Hoshea 11:9), and that through him, the "son of man", salvation is received (cf. T'hilim 146:3, Yeshayohu 43:11). It is Xtianity who changed the calendar (2020; cf. 5780 on the Jewish Calendar), using man's solar calendar and marking time by the birth of Yoshke. Xtians changed the calendar and changed the Torah (changed Shabbes to Sunday, said no bris miloh, no following the mitzvos, worship a man as Hashem, etc.) It is Xianity who claims that Yoshke was the final sacrifice for all time and there is no longer a need for the sacrificial system (cf. Yechezkel 43:21) despite clear messianic passages in the prophets regarding Moshiach bringing a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the nation in the messianic era (Yechezkel 45:17-22). And it is Xianity who became the Jews' longest enduring and most deadliest of all their oppressors for nearly two millennia–the victims of pogroms, crusades, inquisitions, and general unrelenting persecution. The majority of the expulsions of Jews over the last 1,951 years transpired in Xian countries. Accordingly, the חיותא רביעיתא (fourth beast) identified in the Book of Daniyel is Edom/Xtendom, Xianity.

Remember Christianity requires belief in everything in Judaism

Christians are just as Jewish as you technically by faith

No, actually, they're not, because faith does not make a person Jewish. Jews are a people, not an ideology. We are Jews because of our mothers, not our belief.

Jewish identity is sui generis. To be a Jew is not like being a Xian or a Moslem, as Xianity and Islam are based on faith; Judaism is based on matrilineal descent.

Jewish according to Jewish law = a Jew. In terms of native born Jews, the Torah tells us explicitly that our brother (a Jew) is the son of our mother, not our father.

Regardless of what a person may believe (even if he kept all the laws), if he was not born to a Jewish mother and does not go through gairus he is 100% gentile.

But you seem to want to claim a monopoly on the Jewish religion as if it gives you more authority to say who is the messiah or not

Moshiach is rooted in the Jewish Scriptures only. Without the Jewish Holy Scriptures there is no Moshiach. The foundation is the Jewish Scriptures, and in those Scriptures there are clear requirements in which Moshiach must satisfy. Xians cannot claim that Yoshke came from Dovid, for tribal lineage follows the father, and they say that Yoshke had no earthly father. For two millennia and counting, the only nation in the world with children reared to learn and study Tenach in its original Hebrew have refuted the claims that Yoshke is Moshiach based on the actual Hebrew text. Comes the Xians who don't know א from ב—who cannot even open up a Chumesh or Tenach and read the Hebrew text for themselves—telling us what it says, what it means, and how we are wrong. This theme is replete in the Xian bible and their teachings since Xianity was born: at best, we are pitiful and blind; at worst, we are conspiratorial progeny of the Satan.

But what Jesus did was bring the religion to anyone who came to him and despite what system the religious leaders at the time

And that’s a big part of what Jesus was about and came to do.

Yoshke taught hatred for Torah observant Jews and the Sages, and over the past two millennia there has been much Jewish blood spilled in-his-name.

The Jewish Leaders (Pharisees & Sadducees ) priests and Rabbis obviously had power and didn’t see things that way and Jesus was a threat

The Jewish scribes and the Pharisees were responsible for carefully preserving the laws regarding the composition of Sifrei Torah. Without the scribes and the Pharisees not a single word in the five books of Moses makes sense. The Pharisees were well versed in Jewish law, so they understood the aveyros or sins Yoshke was making, and the damage he was doing to the Jewish People by leading fellow Jews astray.

It became a movement more for non Jews ultimately more than a strictly a Jewish “chosen people” religion of the Old Testament

Xianity is geared toward non-Jews because it's a new religion based on supersessionism. The New Testament is not Scripture. We do not accept the New Testament because it's not a Jewish text, just as Xians do not accept the Quran because it's not a Xian text.

Still Christians today must believe in much more (Old Testament stories, prophets, etc....) along with accepting Jesus as messiah

We're not Xians. It is forbidden for a Jew to practice Xianity or any system other than Judaism. It is shaatnez, a forbidden mixture.

But all Jewish people needed to do was accept Jesus as the messiah

Hashem has revealed to us that He is "not a man" (Shmuel A 15:29, Hoshea 11:9) "nor a son of man" (B'midbor 23:19) in whom there is "no salvation" (T'hilim 146:3). The Xian bible calls Yoshke "son of man" ~80 times. He has no salvation.

It’s pretty black and white.

In that way there’s no getting around it, he either is or isn’t. That’s two extremes. Choosing either is what defines all 3 major religions

He isn't, as evident by the requirements outlined in Tenach.

Like I said, what makes you any different than Muslims. Both you don’t believe in Jesus as the messiah.

Moslems may not revere Yoshke as Moshiach, but like Xians they view him as a prophet. In Judaism, however, prophecy was removed from Israel long before Yoshke's birth. The last Jewish prophet was Malachi. And in the New Testament there is nothing that would indicate that Jews should consider Yoshke a prophet since he never says Hashem says to me to say this, which is the most basic attribute of being a prophet. In Tenach the Hebrew is 'כה אמר ה when Hashem speaks through a prophet. The equivalent in Koine Greek would be εἰπόν τάδε κύριος. This phrase of prophecy doesn't appear once in the New Testament.

But I feel like for Jews today it’s harder to believe in Jesus because culturally they gotta sacrifice a portion of their “Jewishness” and much of the religious practices they’re holding on to for generations..... or at least change their way of thinking And most can’t do this because it requires changing their entire way of life

I don’t wanna say Orthodox Jews religion can make them be an entitled people cause technically the God of the Bible says they are “the chosen people”

Jews aren't stupid. If Yoshke were Moshiach we'd all be in church right now. It's more than apparent to us (and has been since before the advent of Xianity) that Yoshke is not the Moshiach prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures.

But to extend that “chosen people” status and all the biblical blessings to everyone who believes in Jesus has to be a hard pill to swallow especially when Jewish people still see themselves as a
People who have suffered and been oppressed for their religion and culture

This is golus in a nutshell: The Bnai Edom (Xians) want to believe that the Bnai Yisroel (Jews) lost their status as the Om Honivchor to the Bnai Edom (Xians); and the Bnai Yishmoel (Moslems) want to believe that the Bnai Yisroel (Jews) were never the Om Honivchor to begin with, rather Yishmoel (instead of Yitzchok; and by extension the Bnai Yishmoel) was. Xians and Moslems alike are considered Koifrim biTorah (deniers of Torah). This is one who says that, although the Torah came from Hashem, the Creator has given a new dispensation instead of the old, replacing one mitzva with another (and one people with another), thereby nullifying the original Torah. According to the Torah the Jews are an eternal nation: the Om Honivchor here, in this world, and in Oilom Hoboh, the world after. The only way to completely destroy the Jewish People in Oilom Hozeh is to rid the solar system of the very star that enables life on earth (Yirmeyohu 31:34-36; 33:20-26). As the mountains surround Yerusholoyim, so Hashem surrounds Klal Yisroel forever (T'hilim 125:2).

 

[Koichos]

Its plausible given that N-T-R are the hieroglyphs that corresponds to the hebrew concept of Elohim (plural).

In the Torah, the word אלהים can refer to demons (D'vorim 32:17), the deceased (Shmuel A 28:13), pagan deities (Shmois 20:2; D'vorim 29:25; M'lochim A 11:33; Shoftim 11:24; T'hilim 96:5, 97:7), angels (B'raishis 35:7, 32:29, 31; T'hilim 8:6; Hoshea 12:5; Iyov 1:6, 2:1, 38:7), judges or nobles (B'raishis 6:2, 4; T'hilim 29:1), and to His 'Heavenly Court' (T'hilim 82:1, 6). The Hebrew word אלהים or 'Elohim' can indeed denote many things (angels, demons, deities, judges, nobles, etc.), but when it comes to Hashem, it is singular, and used in reference to One G-d. In Hebrew, the noun אלקים commands a singular verb or adjective in relation to Hashem (i.e., the construction is grammatically singular as indicated by the singular verb). אלקים possesses a masculine plural suffix (ים), but is singular in meaning.

All names of Hashem, with the exception of י-ה-ו-ה, are appellatives, descriptions of Him. Put simply, אלקים = Hashem hovering over all. One G-d, not plural; the 'plural' here = over all. The plural essence in the name אלקים represents Hashem's role as the Source of ALL powers: the sun, the wind, the plants, the animals, the water, and so on; they all go back to אלקים. That is why the Torah uses אלקים and not י-ה-ו-ה when speaking of creation. You will notice that the ONLY name used for Hashem in the first chapter of B'raishis (creation), is י-ה-ו-ה) אלקים does not appear until B'raishis 2:4), and this is to show that behind all the powers in the world, there is G-d. One G-d. The Source of all. י-ה-ו-ה is the Name, it's 'Him', while אלקים is His 'description', like 'one that has powers' (it also represents 'judgment').


In Hebrew, an ים or 'im' suffix does not necessarily mean the word is plural; it is the verb which indicates plurality (or lack thereof).

And in the Torah, all the verbs associated with the name אלקים in reference to Hashem clearly show it is singular. One G-d.

ברא אלקים Bara Eloikim (G-d created), ויאמר אלקים Va'yoimer Eloikim (G-d said), etc.

It does NOT use the plural forms: ברו אלהים Baru Elohim (gods created), ויאמרו אלהים Va'yoimru Elohim (gods said), etc.

The verbs are singular, denoting singularity of the noun אלקים.


Moreover, the Torah makes it clear that all the various names all go back to the same G-d, Hashem (י-ה-ו-ה)

וידבר אלקים אל משה ויאמר אליו אני י-ה-ו-ה. וארא אל אברהם אל יצחק ואל יעקב בקל שקי ושמי י-ה-ו-ה לא נודעתי להם

Eloikim spoke to Moshe, and He said to him, "I am YKWK. I appeared to Avrohom, to Yitzchok, and to Yaakov with [the name] Kail Shakai, but [with] My name YKWK, I did not become known to them (Ex. 6:2-3)

אתה הראת לדעת כי י-ה-ו-ה הוא האלקים אין עוד מלבדו

You were shown [the revelation of G-d at Sinai], in order that you may know YKWK alone is G-d; there is none [or 'nothing'] beside Him (Deut. 4:35)

וידעת היום והשבת אל לבבך כי י-ה-ו-ה הוא האלקים בשמים ממעל ועל הארץ מתחת אין עוד

You are to know this day and take to your heart, that YKWK alone is G-d in the heaven above, and upon the earth below; there is none other (Deut. 4:39)

...אני י-ה-ו-ה ואין עוד זולתי אין אלקים

I am YKWK and there is none other; besides Me there is no G-d... (Isa. 45:5)

 

[DoubleClutch]

You're asking me something that I can't answer completely.

As far as use..they work as a seasonal clock. The Sphinx is oriented to align with Constellation Leo every so many cycles

its hard to know really

regarding them being the first place of monotheism...like I said you have to view Egyptian history from the perspective of the cult centers. Not all believed the same things. Evidence of this can be found earlier in this thread

At that time period writing was a luxury. Priests owned the process entirely. This lead to the cult centers with different origin stories. This was an early business for the priestly class of people. Through war a handful of major centers became dominant (Thebes, Memphis, Heliopolis, Abydos, Sais, Avaris)

All of them are slightly different, and depending on who was Pharoah had differing beliefs. While the language you see and images depicted appear to be literal they are mostly symbolic

The Ptolemies/Alexander brought the Osiris Cult (Dionysus Cult) to Egypt and co-opted the story. Quietly Egyptologists make no mention of the fact Greek's pilgrimaged to Egypt during the time of the Ptolemies. This did not occur beforehand. Isis wasnt originally even associated with Osiris but with Min (pause)

Reading the stories now, it would appear that "Lower Egypt" in the Nile Delta had competition over time with Phoenician sea traders who founded Avaris and Sais. Both of those places have vastly different interpretations on deities than Thebes/Memphis at the time. This makes sense given that the Phoenicians were Canaanites and thusly were the original pagans.

Ok so if you can’t tell me how or when the pyramids were made then you admit to not fully understanding the people or culture of that time.

How can we trust anything you or Egyptian scholars say about ancient Egypt as 100% true or fact. All assumptions. Anything is possible.

Listening to you is no different than watching an episode of “ancient aliens” it’s entertaining but can’t be taken serious

Anyways, Most agree the pyramids were made for religious purposes. Ancient Egypt was heavy into astrology if I’m correct, which is the foundation of many of their Gods, beliefs, practices, way of life etc....

It’s the pyramids are fundamental to ancient Egyptian religion that worships many gods from the Stars

So you think a time before the pyramids were built there was a monotheistic people who lived in Egypt?

Tell me about those people because I can’t find anything in history books going back that far

And That’s where your “origin stories” from different religion come into play.

I chose to believe the version in the Bible. And there’s no way you can prove theres an older origin story than “in the beginning”

So what are we even debating anymore.

Ultimately it comes down to faith.

 

[MMS]

Ok so if you can’t tell me how or when the pyramids were made then you admit to not fully understanding the people or culture of that time.

How can we trust anything you or Egyptian scholars say about ancient Egypt as 100% true or fact. All assumptions. Anything is possible.

Listening to you is no different than watching an episode of “ancient aliens” it’s entertaining but can’t be taken serious

Anyways, Most agree the pyramids were made for religious purposes. Ancient Egypt was heavy into astrology if I’m correct, which is the foundation of many of their Gods, beliefs, practices, way of life etc....

It’s the pyramids are fundamental to ancient Egyptian religion that worships many gods from the Stars

So you think a time before the pyramids were built there was a monotheistic people who lived in Egypt?

Tell me about those people because I can’t find anything in history books going back that far

And That’s where your “origin stories” from different religion come into play.

I chose to believe the version in the Bible. And there’s no way you can prove theres an older origin story than “in the beginning”

So what are we even debating anymore.

Ultimately it comes down to faith.

why does this statement even matter? who is we?

why is the assumption of truth based on popularity? Thats a you thing, not a me thing.

I study history and make my own judgments based on what I believe is rational. Focusing on the pyramids is a mistake (biblical mistake at that)

Monotheism gives rise to > Ancestor Worship > Polytheism...everywhere in ancient history. Baal Hammon is just King Belus (Ham) being worshipped as an ancestor. He is also rumored as the builder of the Pyramids but im not going to go further on it cause its just a conspiracy theory. I couldnt confirm that

Westerners will have you think Monotheism is "evolved" but it is not. In fact, most aboriginal peoples in the world are MONOtheistic. Religion has been viewed as a control system because of the link of Priests with Kings not just in Egypt but everywhere in the world.

Secondly the concept of Monotheism on its basis is actually SIMPLER than every other kind of religion that has ever arisen. The reason Egypt and the bible dont make sense right away is because of the naming. The truth is, the Hebrew writing system is much more similar to the Hieroglyphs than they are to say Sumerian Cuneiform or Sanskrit

Simple test - Did Moses write down the entire Torah while at Mt Sinai? Which temple did "In the beginning" come from....Hebrews or Egyptians?

Note the post I posted earlier regarding an older Egyptian Deity - Ptah - Wikipedia

Click the "talk" tab...

At this point I cant tell if you want to talk about it or keep asking goofy questions. Search is available for all of us, why dont you bring something that I and others can read?

 

[DoubleClutch]

why does this statement even matter? who is we?

why is the assumption of truth based on popularity? Thats a you thing, not a me thing.

I study history and make my own judgments based on what I believe is rational. Focusing on the pyramids is a mistake (biblical mistake at that)

Monotheism gives rise to > Ancestor Worship > Polytheism...everywhere in ancient history. Baal Hammon is just King Belus (Ham) being worshipped as an ancestor. He is also rumored as the builder of the Pyramids but im not going to go further on it cause its just a conspiracy theory. I couldnt confirm that

Westerners will have you think Monotheism is "evolved" but it is not. In fact, most aboriginal peoples in the world are MONOtheistic. Religion has been viewed as a control system because of the link of Priests with Kings not just in Egypt but everywhere in the world.

Secondly the concept of Monotheism on its basis is actually SIMPLER than every other kind of religion that has ever arisen. The reason Egypt and the bible dont make sense right away is because of the naming. The truth is, the Hebrew writing system is much more similar to the Hieroglyphs than they are to say Sumerian Cuneiform or Sanskrit

Simple test - Did Moses write down the entire Torah while at Mt Sinai? Which temple did "In the beginning" come from....Hebrews or Egyptians?

Note the post I posted earlier regarding an older Egyptian Deity - Ptah - Wikipedia

Click the "talk" tab...

At this point I cant tell if you want to talk about it or keep asking goofy questions. Search is available for all of us, why dont you bring something that I and others can read?

“Monotheism gives rise to Ancestor Worship > Polytheism...everywhere in ancient history.”

Yes this happened with every ancient culture except the Israelites

And yes monotheism came first everyone knows this. This is not the issue. The problem is how religion and the concept of God has evolved and changed with the people/culture of time.

And that’s my whole point. Those people who kept that monotheistic beliefs, followed 1 god (in this case the god of the Bible) and stuck to it despite most cultures delving into religious syncretism are the hebrew/Israelite people. And when they did get into worshiping other peoples Gods, problems came and they were conquered... then they came back to God as the story goes.....

But back to the point,

It doesn’t matter if everyone (or the first group of people on earth) started believing in 1 God, let’s talk about when people stopped, who stopped and who didn’t.

But instead of looking at more modern history and using facts to debate religion logically you wanna look back in history before recorded time at origin stories the that supports your personal beliefs which undermine the fundamental teachings of the major religions of today, in this case Judaism/Christianity.

I agree with you, all people had to have started out as monotheistic. But what we believe today in 2020 is what matters. What you personally believe today is what I keep asking and you can’t answer that.

But you’re constantly studying the past to historically support what you don’t believe. Rather than understanding or taking into account the element of faith.

If all religions are the same and share 1 origin then explain how the teachings of Jesus in Christianity or Muhammad in Islam fit in the equation?

They were real historical figures who walked the earth that people today still believe in. Not mythological figures in stories from books and cultures whose religions are so old they aren’t relevant or alive today.

Nobody today believes in or worships ancient Egyptians or Greek Gods. But some people chose to study them ONLY to debunk Judaism & Christianity.

The only thing I can suggest is for you to read New Testament Bible or Quran and decide which you think is truth logically cause you’re obviously a smart guy. Then let me know

Or you can continue being agnostic, hindu or whatever. Nothing wrong with that, at least you’re not atheist.

Not trying to argue or disagree too much cause after all, we believe in the same origin story

 

[MMS]

“Monotheism gives rise to Ancestor Worship > Polytheism...everywhere in ancient history.”

Yes this happened with every ancient culture except the Israelites

And yes monotheism came first everyone knows this. This is not the issue. The problem is how religion and the concept of God has evolved and changed with the people/culture of time.

And that’s my whole point. Those people who kept that monotheistic beliefs, followed 1 god (in this case the god of the Bible) and stuck to it despite most cultures delving into religious syncretism are the hebrew/Israelite people. And when they did get into worshiping other peoples Gods, problems came and they were conquered... then they came back to God as the story goes.....

But back to the point,

It doesn’t matter if everyone (or the first group of people on earth) started believing in 1 God, let’s talk about when people stopped, who stopped and who didn’t.

But instead of looking at more modern history and using facts to debate religion logically you wanna look back in history before recorded time at origin stories the that supports your personal beliefs which undermine the fundamental teachings of the major religions of today, in this case Judaism/Christianity.

I agree with you, all people had to have started out as monotheistic. But what we believe today in 2020 is what matters. What you personally believe today is what I keep asking and you can’t answer that.

But you’re constantly studying the past to historically support what you don’t believe. Rather than understanding or taking into account the element of faith.

If all religions are the same and share 1 origin then explain how the teachings of Jesus in Christianity or Muhammad in Islam fit in the equation?

They were real historical figures who walked the earth that people today still believe in. Not mythological figures in stories from books and cultures whose religions are so old they aren’t relevant or alive today.

Nobody today believes in or worships ancient Egyptians or Greek Gods. But some people chose to study them ONLY to debunk Judaism & Christianity.

The only thing I can suggest is for you to read New Testament Bible or Quran and decide which you think is truth logically cause you’re obviously a smart guy. Then let me know

Or you can continue being agnostic, hindu or whatever. Nothing wrong with that, at least you’re not atheist.

Not trying to argue or disagree too much cause after all, we believe in the same origin story

the closest I could say my beliefs are that of Orthodox Christianity and the original Nicene Creed (I do not accept the Filioque).

that said my interest in Egypt has more to do with the similarity of the Psalms and Proverbs to texts associated with a few dynasties there. Because Egyptologists have already preframed their culture for us (in the west) the true meanings of their history seems very obscured. There were political tearings between the Upper Egypt acropolis' and the Lower Egypt trading cities. My huge point I want to discuss on this topic is really this:

Did paganism get introduced to Egypt via Phoenicia/Canaan? and if so, what did they really practice before this mixing of cultures?

 

[MMS]

The Torah was committed to writing in the generation of Moshe Rabeinu, who was the 26th generation from Odom Harishoin (26, corresponding to the numerical value of Hashem's Name, י-ה-ו-ה), but it was long before "..בראשית ברא אלקים את השמים ואת הארץ" (B'raishis 1:1). The people in the East, the Buddhists and the Hindus, for example, those are Avrohom's children from his concubines. Torah says that Avrohom Ovinu sent these children away to ארץ קדם (the land of the east). The philosophy that they have, started as Avrohom's philosophy before Hashem spoke to him. This was all the philosophy that he came up with himself....and then it deteriorated into what it is today, with a million deities. But Hinduism and Buddhism is just an understanding of how life works and what the soul is and so on.

I’d love to read more about this. There were crazy wars in India far far back

question that I also have, how do you view the claims from Mormons and their golden plates (written in pictographs)?

 

[MMS]

double post

 

[MMS]

@DoubleClutch this is a good article illuminating what ive been researching
Genesis 1-2 In Light Of Ancient Egyptian Creation Myths | Bible.org

Basically if you look at Egypt, the two creation stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2) are different (one for the cosmos, and one for mankind)

respectively:

- Gen 1 is identical to the Ptah creation story (Memphis)
- Gen 2 is identical to the Khnum and Neith creation story (Elephantine)

there is direct evidence from scripture as well as the ruins themselves, that there existed a substantial Jewish presence in antiquity at the sites of Elephantine as well as Memphis

IMO - Moses and Aaron were high priests of the two separate sects whom merged together. It also gives a better explanation to why Aaron casted the golden calf in error and proclaimed it YHWH (it was a custom of the Temple of Khnum where the celestial bull Hapis was considered sacred to "God", this was a distinct practice prior to Ahkenaten)

 

[DoubleClutch]

Using his being accepted by many as grounds for him being Moshiach is a fallacious argument.


Xianity is absolutely a new religion; its core tenets are diametrically opposed to Judaism. As an example, in Judaism there is no 'anti-Moshiach' who is going to 'dupe' the world into thinking he is Moshiach as the Xians (and Moslems) claim. It is antithetical to Judaism and no such concept exists in Tenach. Further, it is Xtianity who claims that Hashem assumed a physical form (cf. D'vorim 4:15) and took on flesh (cf. B'midbor 23:19, Shmuel A 15:29, Hoshea 11:9), and that through him, the "son of man", salvation is received (cf. T'hilim 146:3, Yeshayohu 43:11). It is Xtianity who changed the calendar (2020; cf. 5780 on the Jewish Calendar), using man's solar calendar and marking time by the birth of Yoshke. Xtians changed the calendar and changed the Torah (changed Shabbes to Sunday, said no bris miloh, no following the mitzvos, worship a man as Hashem, etc.) It is Xianity who claims that Yoshke was the final sacrifice for all time and there is no longer a need for the sacrificial system (cf. Yechezkel 43:21) despite clear messianic passages in the prophets regarding Moshiach bringing a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the nation in the messianic era (Yechezkel 45:17-22). And it is Xianity who became the Jews' longest enduring and most deadliest of all their oppressors for nearly two millennia–the victims of pogroms, crusades, inquisitions, and general unrelenting persecution. The majority of the expulsions of Jews over the last 1,951 years transpired in Xian countries. Accordingly, the חיותא רביעיתא (fourth beast) identified in the Book of Daniyel is Edom/Xtendom, Xianity.


No, actually, they're not, because faith does not make a person Jewish. Jews are a people, not an ideology. We are Jews because of our mothers, not our belief.

Jewish identity is sui generis. To be a Jew is not like being a Xian or a Moslem, as Xianity and Islam are based on faith; Judaism is based on matrilineal descent.

Jewish according to Jewish law = a Jew. In terms of native born Jews, the Torah tells us explicitly that our brother (a Jew) is the son of our mother, not our father.

Regardless of what a person may believe (even if he kept all the laws), if he was not born to a Jewish mother and does not go through gairus he is 100% gentile.


Moshiach is rooted in the Jewish Scriptures only. Without the Jewish Holy Scriptures there is no Moshiach. The foundation is the Jewish Scriptures, and in those Scriptures there are clear requirements in which Moshiach must satisfy. Xians cannot claim that Yoshke came from Dovid, for tribal lineage follows the father, and they say that Yoshke had no earthly father. For two millennia and counting, the only nation in the world with children reared to learn and study Tenach in its original Hebrew have refuted the claims that Yoshke is Moshiach based on the actual Hebrew text. Comes the Xians who don't know א from ב—who cannot even open up a Chumesh or Tenach and read the Hebrew text for themselves—telling us what it says, what it means, and how we are wrong. This theme is replete in the Xian bible and their teachings since Xianity was born: at best, we are pitiful and blind; at worst, we are conspiratorial progeny of the Satan.


Yoshke taught hatred for Torah observant Jews and the Sages, and over the past two millennia there has been much Jewish blood spilled in-his-name.


The Jewish scribes and the Pharisees were responsible for carefully preserving the laws regarding the composition of Sifrei Torah. Without the scribes and the Pharisees not a single word in the five books of Moses makes sense. The Pharisees were well versed in Jewish law, so they understood the aveyros or sins Yoshke was making, and the damage he was doing to the Jewish People by leading fellow Jews astray.


Xianity is geared toward non-Jews because it's a new religion based on supersessionism. The New Testament is not Scripture. We do not accept the New Testament because it's not a Jewish text, just as Xians do not accept the Quran because it's not a Xian text.


We're not Xians. It is forbidden for a Jew to practice Xianity or any system other than Judaism. It is shaatnez, a forbidden mixture.


Hashem has revealed to us that He is "not a man" (Shmuel A 15:29, Hoshea 11:9) "nor a son of man" (B'midbor 23:19) in whom there is "no salvation" (T'hilim 146:3). The Xian bible calls Yoshke "son of man" ~80 times. He has no salvation.


He isn't, as evident by the requirements outlined in Tenach.


Moslems may not revere Yoshke as Moshiach, but like Xians they view him as a prophet. In Judaism, however, prophecy was removed from Israel long before Yoshke's birth. The last Jewish prophet was Malachi. And in the New Testament there is nothing that would indicate that Jews should consider Yoshke a prophet since he never says Hashem says to me to say this, which is the most basic attribute of being a prophet. In Tenach the Hebrew is 'כה אמר ה when Hashem speaks through a prophet. The equivalent in Koine Greek would be εἰπόν τάδε κύριος. This phrase of prophecy doesn't appear once in the New Testament.


Jews aren't stupid. If Yoshke were Moshiach we'd all be in church right now. It's more than apparent to us (and has been since before the advent of Xianity) that Yoshke is not the Moshiach prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures.


This is golus in a nutshell: The Bnai Edom (Xians) want to believe that the Bnai Yisroel (Jews) lost their status as the Om Honivchor to the Bnai Edom (Xians); and the Bnai Yishmoel (Moslems) want to believe that the Bnai Yisroel (Jews) were never the Om Honivchor to begin with, rather Yishmoel (instead of Yitzchok; and by extension the Bnai Yishmoel) was. Xians and Moslems alike are considered Koifrim biTorah (deniers of Torah). This is one who says that, although the Torah came from Hashem, the Creator has given a new dispensation instead of the old, replacing one mitzva with another (and one people with another), thereby nullifying the original Torah. According to the Torah the Jews are an eternal nation: the Om Honivchor here, in this world, and in Oilom Hoboh, the world after. The only way to completely destroy the Jewish People in Oilom Hozeh is to rid the solar system of the very star that enables life on earth (Yirmeyohu 31:34-36; 33:20-26). As the mountains surround Yerusholoyim, so Hashem surrounds Klal Yisroel forever (T'hilim 125:2).

Jesus being “accepted by many” is an understatement. He hasn’t even stopped being “accepted” going on 2000 years

Christianity isnt a new religion or a religion at all. It’s just the term given to Jewish people who followed Jesus. How you view “Christianity” and judge Christians as a whole and not as individual believers in the same god of the Jewish people is where you make the mistake

It’s that “us vs them mentality” or “Jews vs everybody”

If You say you respect Jesus you must respect his followers. All worship the same god after all.

Yes you understand the symbolic meaning of Jesus dying on the cross/Jewish sacrifices and forgiveness of sin.

Tell me how Jewish people received forgiveness when temples were destroyed, while they were conquered and the practices essentially weren’t functioning?

Does God make mistakes? Does he not keep his promises. Did God abandon the Jewish people as Muslims would suggest? Can God be defeated?

Like I said Jews conflicts in history are with Christianity as a religion. Not with individual followers of Jesus.

In the same way black people try to blame Christianity for slavery in the Americas.

The New Testament is basically the story of Jesus and accounts of the early church

The Jews alive during the time of Jesus decided as a religion to not believe in Jesus before the New Testament was written and before “Christianity” was a thing

Today you can think for yourself about who Jesus is. You can also decide to believe in any prophecy from Jesus or the NT writers or not.

The title “son of man” means many things. It’s obviously mentioned so many times for a reason. You can look into it.

Obviously Jesus was a man. But Can a man live without sinning?

The prophets from the Jewish scriptures sinned.

Jesus wasn’t a prophet. Only in Islam he’s called a prophet but they say he didn’t sin (that’s why they also lie and claim all the Old Testament prophets didn’t sin either)

According to Judaism and Jesus (before he started his ministry) John The Baptist was the last prophet.

Jesus spoke with Gods authority to teach and do miracles, heal, forgive etc.... not as a prophet relaying gods message for a specific issue or purpose to Hebrew Israelite people. That era was over once he showed up the “kingdom of God was at hand”.

Jesus was different than any religious figures before him or after. Not a prophet like those before, not a Demi God like Egyptian/Greek/Hindu Gods, not “a God” or “God the father” in Judaism, not an Angel but definitely a human man born on earth sent by God for a purpose and he is the messiah to those who accepted him then and in the future. You can’t really give him 1 title or put him in a box.

But that’s how I see him. You can read the New Testament to understand and believe for yourself

Don’t let your religion tell you what to think or believe before you even try.

Of course Jews are the eternal nation. Christians believe whatever scripture you believe.

Nobody is against Jewish people but,

You have to realize the error and fault in some of the man made Jewish teachings, ideas and practices that hold you back. The same way Jesus criticized Jewish Leaders can be applied to today not only with Judaism but all religious institutions:

Hypocrisy/self righteousness/abuse of power/misinterpreting & twisting of scripture for control

But you think Jesus is the bad guy because he exposed it all and taught the right way.

Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.“

What does that mean to you?

 

[MMS]

@DoubleClutch its nuanced i wouldnt trash them because there is a reason for their belief BECAUSE of what happened before and after Constantine in Rome

its not as clear cut as you think. From jewish perspective the Bible cant be trusted due to the many variations but more specifically the nature of the "Trinity"

which to me has been the source of most of the issue. Let me show you why I do not support the Filioque addition to the Nicene creed graphically

the reason the trinity becomes polytheism is because of this controversy. By saying the Son is a deity it no longer monotheism but rather duotheism

in eastern Christianity, God is supreme whereas in western Christianity God and Jesus are considered the same person. This small addition changes how Jesus is perceived and how his words in prayer are interpreted.

That diagram of the texts I posted earlier is important as it shows that the LXX (Orthodox) is older than the Latin Vulgate (Catholics) which is then older than the Masoretic Texts (Rabbinical Judaism)

Its hella weird but this is why I dont support the filioque, its a small thing but its actually a huge difference in how you perceive Jesus. Orthodox have never been in bad relations with Jews but rather Catholics who have turned Jesus into an Idol. They used the image of the cross (Byzantine Emperors and then later Crusader Kings) to justify sin which is ultimately being repaid to them in kind.

The Orthodox church has been fukked basically everywhere because of the church's unwillingness to get involved with politics unlike their Catholic counterparts

 

[MMS]

Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.“

What does that mean to you?

Paul the Apostle and Jewish Christianity - Wikipedia

this is exactly the biggest issue Jews have actually. The "laws" in Christianity have strayed so far from whats in the OT that it's almost unrecognizable. Only the Orthodox have anything remotely similar to Jewish customs of astrological feasts, fasting, kosher eating(outside of Messianic Jews)...even then they still have old customs related to ancient greek traditions that became embedded in that church as well.

You should read on this too:
Judaizers - Wikipedia

Christianity because it was forced on people throughout Rome who were pagan slowly changed over time to accommodate other cultural elements (all churches for that matter). The biggest change being the Catholic church in Rome

 

[DoubleClutch]

@DoubleClutch its nuanced i wouldnt trash them because there is a reason for their belief BECAUSE of what happened before and after Constantine in Rome

its not as clear cut as you think. From jewish perspective the Bible cant be trusted due to the many variations but more specifically the nature of the "Trinity"

which to me has been the source of most of the issue. Let me show you why I do not support the Filioque addition to the Nicene creed graphically

the reason the trinity becomes polytheism is because of this controversy. By saying the Son is a deity it no longer monotheism but rather duotheism

in eastern Christianity, God is supreme whereas in western Christianity God and Jesus are considered the same person. This small addition changes how Jesus is perceived and how his words in prayer are interpreted.

That diagram of the texts I posted earlier is important as it shows that the LXX (Orthodox) is older than the Latin Vulgate (Catholics) which is then older than the Masoretic Texts (Rabbinical Judaism)

Its hella weird but this is why I dont support the filioque, its a small thing but its actually a huge difference in how you perceive Jesus. Orthodox have never been in bad relations with Jews but rather Catholics who have turned Jesus into an Idol. They used the image of the cross (Byzantine Emperors and then later Crusader Kings) to justify sin which is ultimately being repaid to them in kind.

The Orthodox church has been fukked basically everywhere because of the church's unwillingness to get involved with politics unlike their Catholic counterparts

I never heard of the nicene creed until this post. If Christians wanna let the Catholic Church speak for them then that’s their loss

Jesus is who he said he is. Any problem with it, take it up with Jesus or make sense of it if for yourself.

But as for other religions (Jews, Muslims, Jehovah witness, etc...) who tell Christians what they believe based on man made graphs and terminology like “the trinity”, I’ll quote you by saying:

“some concepts just can’t be explained or expressed with words.”

It takes some thought and understanding. That’s why Jesus spoke in parables. And never said “I Am God”

 

[Koichos]

Did Moses write down the entire Torah while at Mt Sinai?

The Torah was written down finally at the end of the 40 years in the midbor, in the last month of Moshe Rabeinu's life. In fact, he finished 13 Sifrei Torah; one for each tribe, and one for the Holy Ark. Hashem dictated, Moshe wrote.

Which temple did "In the beginning" come from....Hebrews or Egyptians?

A Levite (Moshe), if you want to be technical.

that said my interest in Egypt has more to do with the similarity of the Psalms and Proverbs to texts associated with a few dynasties there. Because Egyptologists have already preframed their culture for us (in the west) the true meanings of their history seems very obscured. There were political tearings between the Upper Egypt acropolis' and the Lower Egypt trading cities. My huge point I want to discuss on this topic is really this:

The T'hilim (Psalms) chapters are not, as some say, 'stolen' from any other civilization. All the Egyptian stories were copied FROM Tenach. None precede it. Dovid Hamelech wrote T'hilim by means of ten sages of previous generations. These include T'hilim authored by Odom Harishoin, and by Malki Tzedek (Shem), and by Avrohom Ovinu, and by Moshe Rabeinu, and by Haimon the Ezrachi, and by Yedusun the Levite, and by Asaf, and by the three sons of Korach - Assir, Elkono and Avi'asaf.

@DoubleClutch this is a good article illuminating what ive been researching
Genesis 1-2 In Light Of Ancient Egyptian Creation Myths | Bible.org

Basically if you look at Egypt, the two creation stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2) are different (one for the cosmos, and one for mankind)

respectively:

- Gen 1 is identical to the Ptah creation story (Memphis)
- Gen 2 is identical to the Khnum and Neith creation story (Elephantine)

there is direct evidence from scripture as well as the ruins themselves, that there existed a substantial Jewish presence in antiquity at the sites of Elephantine as well as Memphis

IMO - Moses and Aaron were high priests of the two separate sects whom merged together

Only Aharon Hakohein was a Kohein Godol (High Priest). All Kohanim are Levites, but not all Levites are Kohanim. Kohanim are those descended from Aharon Hakohein, the brother of Moshe Rabeinu. Moshe is a regular Levite, not a Kohein. Moshe is our great uncle.

It also gives a better explanation to why Aaron casted the golden calf in error and proclaimed it YHWH (if you understand the customs of the Temple of Khnum where the celestial bull Hapis was considered sacred to "God", this was a distinct practice prior to Ahkenaten)

The Eiruv Rov are the 'mixed multitude' who joined B'nai Yisroel during their escape from Egypt, and are mentioned once in Tenach in the Book of Exodus: "v'Gom eiruv rov alah itom—And also, a 'mixed multitude' went up with them (Shmois 12:38)." The Eiruv Ruv consisted mostly of the Egyptian Chartumim (magicians) who were high society and only wanted to join Am Yisroel for their own benefit. This is precisely why Hashem told Moshe not to bring them, as they were not sincere. They never accepted Hashem's laws nor Ohl Malchus Shomoyim (The yoke of the kingship of Heaven). Further support for their insincerity lies in their instigation of the Golden calf during Moshe's ascent, as it says: "Eileh Elokecho Yisroel asher h'elucho m'oretz Mitzroyim—This is YOUR G-d, Israel, who brought YOU out of Egypt (Shmois 32:4)." The Eiruv Rov have instigated almost all of the tragedies and rebellions against Hashem that the Jewish People have gone through.

Following the incident of the Golden calf (Shmois 32:7) Hashem tells Moshe Rabeinu to descend from Har Sinai because "עמך" (your nation) has sinned. The Medrish explains that this was Moshe's original idea; Hashem did not instruct him to gather all these converts. Rash"i (ibid.) quotes from the Medrish that Hashem's unusual choice of words, "עמך" (your nation), alludes to the Eiruv Rov, the aforementioned group of converts, since Hashem does not refer to the Jewish People as "עמך" ('your' nation) but rather as "עמי" ('My' nation). We see from here that it was Moshe's idea to accept these converts, a detrimental addition to the Jewish People, who would go on to instigate our lowest point in Jewish history, the Golden calf, as well as other troublesome incidents during the forty years of travelling in the midbor. As it is written: "The Eiruv Rov [mixed multitude] delay the geulo [redemption] much more than all the nations of the World" (Zohar, Ra'aia M'haimna, 124a).

There are three opinions regarding the materialization of the Golden calf:

• Aharon Hakohein formed it by molding the form of a calf from the molten gold he collected from the people (Rash"i on Shmois 32:4)
  
• The Eiruv Rov/Egyptian Chartumim (magicians) formed it using magic (ibidem.)
  
• Michoh, a young boy, a member of the Eiruv Rov whose life had been saved by Moshe, created the calf. When the B'nai Yisroel were leaving Egypt, Moshe went to collect Yosef's coffin to fulfill his (Yosef's) request that his remains be redeemed together with the Jews. However, in an attempt to stop the Jewish People from leaving, the Egyptians had sunk Yosef's coffin in the Nile River. Moshe took a plaque, wrote upon it the words "עלי שור" (ascend ox) and the four-letter Name of Hashem, and threw it into the river, causing the coffin of Yosef (who is likened to an ox (D'vorim 33:17)) to rise to the surface. Leaving the plaque behind, little Michoh, who had been watching from afar, had retrieved and now used it to create the molten calf by throwing it into the blaze which Aharon had cast the gold into (ibidem.; Medrish Tanchumo (Parshas Ki Sissa 19)

 

[Koichos]

Paul the Apostle and Jewish Christianity - Wikipedia

this is exactly the biggest issue Jews have actually. The "laws" in Christianity have strayed so far from whats in the OT that it's almost unrecognizable. Only the Orthodox have anything remotely similar to Jewish customs of astrological feasts, fasting, kosher eating(outside of Messianic Jews)...even then they still have old customs related to ancient greek traditions that became embedded in that church as well.

You should read on this too:
Judaizers - Wikipedia

Christianity because it was forced on people throughout Rome who were pagan slowly changed over time to accommodate other cultural elements (all churches for that matter). The biggest change being the Catholic church in Rome

The Messianic movement, theologically, agrees with what Assemblies of God and the Southern Baptist Churches believe in. There's no theological differences between them. The only difference is the Messianics use Jewish culture, icons and liturgy, to convey a Xian message.

And just to add: it's interesting that Messianic Jews claim to not believe in 'Rabbinic' Judaism, that they only believe in the written Torah (Written Law) and not the oral Torah (Oral Law), yet all the commandments and traditions they actually keep are either mere customs (yarmulke) or commandments which are explained only in the oral Torah (every one of them). For example, when they wear tefillin, it consts of four parshiyos bound up, leather made from one piece, the dye, and the thread that's used just like the Oral Law says; exactly how it is explained in the Oral Law. Yet one cannot find this in the written Torah. Or even the tzitzis they wear, consisting of 13 knots and threads on each corner (5 knots, 8 threads (four doubled over)), exactly as it is explained in the Oral Law. And their wives don't wear tzitzis. Why not? In the written Torah it doesn't say that females don't need to wear them. Only from the Oral Law do we know that women are not obligated to fulfill the time-bound mitzvos (commandments that must be fulfilled during certain parts of the day: tfillin, kriyas shema, tzitzis, etc). Without the Oral Law none of the mitzvos make sense. So they claim that they don't believe in the Oral Law (Oral Torah), only in the Written Law (Written Torah), yet they only keep the commandments according to the explanations in the Oral Torah.

The Jewish Calendar is thoroughly predicated on the Oral Torah. A lunar month is approximately 29.5 days on average, which would therefore make a lunar year to be 354 days (29.5 x 12 = 354). And a solar calendar is approximately 365.25 days. This means the solar calendar (secular calendar) is 11.25 days longer than the lunar year. Now, there's a commandment in the Torah (D'vorim 16:1) that Pesach MUST come out in the springtime. MUST. The problem is the 365.25 days of the solar calendar that governs the seasons. Each year you would lose 11 days. If this year Pesach is on April 8, and you did nothing to the calendar but just count 12 months, what day would Pesach be next year? Well, next year it would still be in the spring, but as the years go on it would eventually fall in winter, and then fall, and so on. This is forbidden. However, for the Jewish Calendar, the Oral Torah gives a formula how to intercalate an extra month in 'Ibbur' (a year that has an extra twelfth month) so that we know when Pesach is. This way, Pesach is always observed in spring.

(Just to note: There is NO commandment anywhere in the Torah to have 12 months in the year.) Pesach is based on this calculation. How do we know when Pesach is? How do we know when Rosh Hashanah is? We go to the Jewish Calendar. The Jewish Calendar is based on a calculation that is entirely Oral Torah. You must know the exact calculation of a lunar month, which is ~29.5 days, or 29 days plus 12 hours, and of the 13th hour you would divide that into 1,080 parts called in Hebrew, חלקים or 'chalokim'–which for the record is a great number because it's divisible by almost anything. And it's 796 over 1080. So the approximate length of a lunar cycle according to the calculation of the Oral Torah, on which the Jewish Calendar is based, is 29.530590 days or 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes and 3 and 1/3 seconds. And we intercalate approximately seven times every nineteen years. Therefore, unlike the secular calendar, the Jewish Calendar is luni–solar. The months are lunar, but the years are solar, with the nineteen-year Metonic cycle synchronizing the two.