The Little Known Biblical Curse of Egypt by Isaiah

[DoubleClutch]

Traditional Moslems use the Arabic term 'Allah' (which just means G-d) because that is the language they speak. Likewise, Jews who were raised in Arab lands and spoke Arabic as a lingua franca also referred to Hashem as 'Allah' (אללה in Hebrew transliteration), from the common person to the greatest of sages. Ramba"m, who wrote most of his works in Arabic, often used the term אללה when referring to Hashem. Even until modern times, Jews in Arab lands (e.g., Teimanim) have had an Arabic version of Echod Mi Yodeya, found in the Haggodoh recited at Pesach Seder, with the words "Allah Hu! Allah Hu!" (‏אללה הו! אללה הו!‏). Jews from Arab countries often say the Arabic phrase 'In sha Allah' (אן שא אללה) instead of 'B'ezras Hashem' (בעזרת השם‎), both meaning "G-d willing". אללה just means 'G-d'.

The Arabic term 'Ilah' (إله‎) means 'diety' or 'god'. 'Allah' (الله) includes the definite article 'al', a prefix meaning 'the', which is how it is used in the Qur'an. 'Allah' (الله) shares the same triconsonantal root (Arabic ا.ل.ه is a cognate of Hebrew א.ל.ה) as the Hebrew terms 'Elohim' (אלהים) and 'Eloah' (אלוה), as well as the Aramaic term 'Aloho' (אלה). In principle, Jews and Moslems worship the same G-d, as both Judaism and Islam understand Hashem as an incorporeal, indivisible One; though in practice, the teachings are not always harmonious. Nonetheless, given that Islam is monotheistic, a Jew is permitted to step foot and even daven inside a Mosque—purely Jewish tefilos and minhagim, of course. (Not only is a Jew forbidden from davening inside a church, but he may not so much as step foot inside one).

In any case, Jews do not actually pronounce the Name י-ה-ו-ה. The Hebrew word השם (Hashem) which literally means "the [divine] name" is used as a substitute in daily conversation. Even when davening (praying) or laining (reading from the Torah), the Name י-ה-ו-ה is not pronounced. Instead, we say אדנ-י (Adonoi), which has its own special grammatical construction specifically used for the name of Hashem (קמץ [uppercase T] under the letter אֲדֹנָי] נ]). During the First and Second Temple periods, י-ה-ו-ה (the holiest Name of Hashem) was uttered only by the Koihen Godol (holiest man) on Yom Kippur (holiest day) during and after the recitation of Viduy in the Kodesh Kodashim (holiest place). In daily conversation we say השם, and during religious observance we say אדנ-י; but never do we say י-ה-ו-ה.

One who learns Chumesh (the printed book of Torah with nikkud) will notice that the nikkud (vowel points) for אֲדֹנָ-י and אֱלֹקִים were printed under the consonants י-ה-ו-ה to remind the reader to voice אֲדֹנָ-י or אֱלֹקִים and not attempt to pronounce the Essential Divine Name, י-ה-ו-ה. For example: אֲדֹנָ-י = יְ-הֹ-וָ-ה (When י-ה-ו-ה is pointed as אדנ-י, there is a שווא under the י, a חולם above the ה, and a קמץ under the ו. Note: under the א in אדנ-י is a חטף סגול, but under the י in י-ה-ו-ה is a שווא. This is because a שווא presents itself as a חטף סגול under a guttural [e.g., א]); and אֱלֹקִים = יֱ-הֹ-וִ-ה (This usage is found as a result of י-ה-ו-ה appearing before and after אדנ-י, so as not to repeat אדנ-י where it isn't written this way in the text. We pronounce a standalone י-ה-ו-ה as 'Adonoi'; but אֲדֹנָ-י יֱ-הֹ-וִ-ה becomes 'Adonoi Elokim').

As we see in Shmos 3:15, the Hebrew word for 'forever' ("זה שמי לעלם—This is My Name forever [oilam]") is spelled without the letter ו vov (לעלם; cf. לעולם) such that it can be read l'olem (לעלם, "to conceal"), implying an obligation to conceal the Name of Hashem. Since לעולם is without the letter ו vov, we are to understand it as לעלם "to conceal" so that His Name should not be read as it is written. It is written with the yud י and the hei ה but read with the alef א and the daled ד. That is, the Name of Hashem is written as י-ה-ו-ה but read as אדנ-י. "This is how I shall be mentioned in every generation". The Name י-ה-ו-ה appears to have never been uttered other than אדנ-י, but in the Batai Hamikdosh, the place where Hashem chose to cause His Name to rest, as the Torah says: המקום אשר בחרתי לשכן את שמי.


The Written Torah cannot be kept (regardless of one's efficiency in Biblical Hebrew) without the Oral Torah. The Jewish oral tradition has been transmitted orally from the time of Har Sinai—from Hashem to Moshe Rabeinu, Moshe Rabeinu to Yehoshua, Yehoshua to the Zakeinim (Elders), the Zakeinim to the Nevi'im (Prophets), the Nevi'im to the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah (Men of the Great Assembly), the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah to the Chochumim (Sages), the Chochumim to the Rabonon (Rabbis), the Rabonon to the Talmidim (Students), from one generation to the next to ensure the continuity of the Jewish People. That is Judaism—an unbroken chain of tradition tracing all the way back to Zmon Masan Torasainu (the time of the giving of our Torah), for which we have a timeline (such as who received from who, and in what generation they lived). The greater part of Torah must, and will, remain an oral tradition–a tradition preserved only by the Jew. Whether natural born or convert, only Jews are learned in the Oral Law since only Jews are obligated in Torah.


Indeed, most don't. That is why the Torah says שארית ישראל not כלל ישראל, "remnant" not "all". The world we encounter today comports perfectly with what we find in the Jewish Scriptures. There was a faithful remnant of Israel loyal to Hashem in biblical times; there is a faithful remnant of Israel loyal to Hashem today. Even in the time of Eliyohu Hanovi, there were only seven thousand Jews who remained faithful to Hashem, who refused to abandon the Torah and prostrate themselves before Ba'al (Melochim A 19:18). A sizable portion did not keep the Torah; not then, and not now. That is precisely why Hashem labeled the Jewish People "Am Keshei Oref", a stiff-necked people (first given on account of the Golden calf). We stood at Har Sinai and Hashem said לא תעשה לך פסל, "You shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Shmos 20:4). Forty days later we said: ehhh... (ibid. 32:8). Still, this penchant for contentious behavior enabled Judaism to spread forth and give "chossidai u'mois ho'oilom", righteous gentiles, the chance to convert and join the Jewish People.


Hashem tells us explicitly that we are able to keep the Torah as intended (D'vorim 30:11-14), as we have been doing for the last 3,332 years—the observant among us, at least. When Hashem gave the mitzvos to the Jewish People, he did this so that Klal Yisroel should live and not perish. The Torah was given in such a way that it could be fulfilled without having to ascend to heaven to learn it (D'vorim 30:12). Those who accepted and received the Torah knew clearly what was required of them. Hashem did not instruct them a little, and leave out a little, so that they should stumble and toil in vain. Yeshayohu summed this up beautifully: "I did not speak in secret, in a place of darkness; I did not say to the seed of Yaakov, `Seek Me, in vain'; I, Hashem, Who foretell reliably, declare things that are upright".


The eternality of the Torah and its mitzvos is made very clear in Torah (B'midbor 15:22-23; D'vorim 4:2, 5:26, 29:28).


When Moshiach arrives, Jewry will accept him (Hoshea 3:5).

I like the fact that you know so much about Jewish religion/culture/history. You must come from a strict orthodox family/ upbringing (I’m assuming you’re a teacher, scholar or leader) and not the average or typical Jewish

I even learned a lot of Hebrew from you just trying to understand your responses BUT what I don’t understand is

with all your knowledge of Jewish religion you think/believe some of the things like those I put in bold

Or you just can’t comprehend a Christian point of view as it exists with a Jewish one regarding GOD, religion, history, etc

From your perspective To give any more validity to Islam than Christianity is laughable

I dunno if you’re serious, trolling or making a point I don’t understand

But Muslims dont respect Jewish religion, the Torah, culture oral tradition at all

I’m no expert on Islam but I know in it Muslim are taught your Jewish scripture have been changed and they change the stories of the Bible to fit their beliefs

For one, they don’t believe any of Gods prophets sinned or disobey or lacked faith in God

When that is pretty much the overarching theme of the Bible and the lessons learned from those stories

Anyways that’s just part of my frustration with what you wrote

I’d go as far to say they don’t even worship the same god but you made a good case considering the language translation

But are Jewish people in living Arab countries not allowed to learn Hebrew. Is it not taught to them? Don’t they keep the traditions?

Even most Christians learn and know the important Hebrew languages and names of God and understand everything you wrote even though they can’t read or write Hebrew and don’t know the complexities of the language

And why can’t Muslims learn Hebrew and use Gods true name and titles in Hebrew as Jews do if Judaism is really the foundation for Islam, essentially the same religion and same God as you suggested.

If you say Allah 9 times out of 10 someone will associate it with God from the Koran and not Judaism or Christianity

In contrast if someone speaks of Jesus as divine , lord or prays in Jesus name for example then people will 9 times out of 10 associate that person with Christianity

The crazy thing is Muslims respect Jesus, and Jews hate him (for lack of a better word) but you think they believe the same as you?

Islam and Judaism are not the same. Arabs and Jews will always be in conflict according to the Bible and just by nature as it seems

If both religions had as much of a common ground and mutual understanding and respect as you say under the umbrella of believing the same God and culturally having some of same traditions then I think they’d get along much better

Christianity respects Jews as it should cause any Christian must be Jewish first.

It’s just Jews who believe in Jesus from the beginning

So why wouldn’t a Jew fell comfortable around Christian opposed to Muslims?

A Christian “Church” is nothing more than a building so Jews being forbidden from entering shows how much they have misunderstood Christianity

Nonetheless any Christian would welcome a Jewish person in their service, home, or even just conversation about God

I feel like Jews have this “us vs them” mentality.

But ask a Muslim if Jew or any non Muslim would be allowed in the kaaba in Mecca to pray.

The other thing is, the name of God.

I like how you break it down. But essentially when you say Adonai you mean Lord.

Since Jewish people/nobody is permitted to say YHWH “I Am” in reference to God then their must be some other personal representation of God.

I think we all agree God isn’t literally “a Man” or male pronoun or whatever. It’s a spirit or “higher power”

But one way we can try to comprehend that or even make sense of it on a earthy is in Jesus

Who Christians call Lord on earth/in heaven. He word. The holy spirt. Etc....

If Jews can’t call on Gods name who are they really praying to today? Especially without holy areas, priests, temples, and sacrifices to intercede as you say for their sins.

Are they praying to the same “Allah” as the Muslims? Because the word translates the same?

How are the 5 pillars of Islam Muslim believe in and practice any different from what religious Jewish people do to “submit to God”.

Lastly, you seem to think that the existence of Christianity means an end to Judaism

In contrast that’s what Muslims believe. There’s no Islam unless the Jewish people are being supplanted. There no point of it. No need of it.

There’s no religion exclusively for “Jewish” people or “Arab” people.

Arab isn’t even a race lol.

Christians believe god will kept his promise to Jews forever

Like you say

There was a faithful remnant of Israel loyal to Hashem in biblical times; there is a faithful remnant of Israel loyal to Hashem today.

I can’t judge any Jew, God will.

But anyone who is Jewish today right now will have to reject Jesus at some point, just as Muslims do.

You can’t not accept Jesus without also denying “the father” at the same time.

“No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”

You can’t believe in God and not Jesus. And vice versa

And if you believe in what’s written in the Bible Jesus said

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It’s plain and simple. Either you’re calling Jesus a liar or God made a mistake in sending him. And God makes no mistakes. And god makes no changes

Like you say The eternality of the Torah and its mitzvos is made very clear in Torah.

So it is the same in Christianity with Jesus you just need to find a way reconcile the two.

 

[Everythingg]

We actually find the answer(s) to this in Tenach itself which foretells the destruction of the second Bais Hamikdosh. The prophets foretold that the second Bais Hamikdosh would be destroyed "because of you" (Michoh 3:12). Michoh lived roughly 800 years prior. Michoh lived in the time of Yeshayohu and Hoshea in the First Temple period. They lived while the First Temple was standing, but prophesied that the Temple Mount would soon be utter desolation, similar to that of a forest. During the Second Temple period the Bais Hamikdosh was rife with sinas chinom (senseless hatred), one Jew against another, among other issues—dayanim judging for bribery, koihanim teaching for hire, neviyim prophesying for money, and Jewry taking Hashem for granted, expecting His protection should evil befall them—thereby leading to the destruction of the Second Temple (Michoh 3:9-12). This term 'sinom chinom' vis-à-vis the Temple's destruction is brought down by Chaza"l, our Sages of blessed memory. R' Yishmoel ben Elisha, a first-century Tanna, foretold that the children of Yishmoel (the Arabs) would eventually construct a building upon the Temple Mount following the Romans' destruction of the Bais Hamikdosh (Pirkay D'Rabbi Eliezer 30:12). Which building is this? This is the 'Dome of the Rock' which stands on the Temple Mount Today.

The destruction of the second Bais Hamikdosh is synonymous with the destruction of Yerusholoyim. There is a notable passage in Bavli where eight statements are given: R' Nachmani ben Kaylil (Abaye) says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the desecration of Shabbes; R' Abahu says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of its Jews intentionally omitting recitation of the Shma twice a day, morning and evening; R' Hamnuno says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of obstructing schoolchildren from learning Torah; R' Ulla says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the lack of shame among the people; R' Yitzchok Napacha says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the prominent sages of their generation being equated as opposed to properly valued; R' Amram bar R' Shimon says that R' Shimon bar Abba says that R' Chanina bar Chama says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the people not chastening one another; R' Yehuda Hanasi says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the belittlement of talmiday chochumim (Torah scholars); R' Abba ben Yosef bar Chama (Rava) says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the 'emunah' (faith) of men ceasing therein (perhaps the root cause of the seven aforementioned). Elsewhere, in Bavli and Yerushalmi, 'sinas chinom' is mentioned.


Jews have preserved the course of tradition going all the way back through time to Moshe at Har Sinai. We know who received the tradition from who, and in what generation they lived. In order to know for sure that the Torah that we have today is what we got from the time of Sinai, the only way to have it is to have it oral. Thus in order to ensure the continuity of the Jewish People, it had to be transmitted orally, from one generation to the next. As Hashem tells us in Tenach, the greater part of Torah was not written down lest Israel be counted the same as gentiles. Moreover, regarding the consistency of Sifrei Torah (Handwritten Hebrew Torah Scrolls), there is not a single word pronounced differently in ANY valid Saifer Torah anywhere in the world; neither is there a single non-Jewish community on this planet whose children are nurtured to study and breathe Loshon Hakoidesh. Wherever you find a community fluent in Biblical Hebrew, you will find the Jewish People; and no other community can you go to learn about the various laws as given in the ancient times.

All Sifrei Torah (handwritten Hebrew Torah Scrolls) and Chomaish Magilos (handwritten scrolls of Shir Hashirim, Rus, Esther, Koheless and Eichoh) as well as the rest of Neviyim and Kesuvim are meticulously scribed by Jewish scribal families whose tradition is passed from one generation to the next—Jewish scribes known as sofrim. The Torah was written down finally at the end of the forty years in the midbor (desert), in the last month of Moshe Rabeinu's life. In fact, he finished 13 Sifrei Torah: one for each shevet (tribe) and one for the Aron Koidesh (Holy Ark). The Jewish People have carefully preserved the Torah and all the traditions surrounding it. Without the scribes, not a single word in the Torah makes sense. Throughout the four corners of the earth, each and every Saifer Torah in existence can only be attributed to the scribes of one nation—Am Yisroel. Without the Jewish Oral Tradition there would be no Torah, and no Na"Ch. All translators rely upon our oral tradition and confirm that the Jews have the true tradition from Moshe Rabeinu and the Prophets.


T'hilim 51 discusses Dovid Hamelech taking accountability and asking Hashem for forgiveness for the events that took place between himself, Bas-Sheva, and Uriya Hachiti. In short, Dovid Hamelech knew he was to have a son through Bas Sheva, so when he saw her, he considered this a sign for him to take her now. However, he took his 'beshert' too early. In the days of yore, when Jewish men went to war, they gave their wives 'gitin' (divorce documents) which they rescinded if and when they came back alive, in order to prevent an 'agunoh' situation should they be missing in action. 'Agunoh' means "chained"; in the absence of a 'get' (divorce document), a wife is still technically married (chained) to her husband and cannot remarry. Bas-Sheva was technically divorced. Still, it was always expected that the husband would return from war and re-marry his wife, therefore this was not a great situation nevertheless. This means that Dovid's actions were technically not ni'uf (adultery), but it was a me'esser zakh (not a good thing), particularly for someone of his caliber.

Yes, Dovid Hamelech was permitted to take Bas-Sheva, but given his level Hashem was displeased. And yes, Dovid was permitted to have Uriya Hachiti killed because he was a moired bemolchus (one who rebels against the king) and thus chiuv misa (liable for death). But he still did something very wrong, for which Nosson (Nathan) gave him strong mussar (moral reproof) in Shmuel B 12. Dovid pleads for forgiveness by doing tshuva (repentance) and Hashem vindicates him. This is important to note because korbonos (sin offerings) atone for unintentional sin, as the Torah clearly writes (Voyikroh 4:1-3, 5:15). (Now, it is brought down in our oral tradition that Dovid did not actually make an aveira (sin) according to the Torah due to Bas-Sheva's 'get', and Uriya being 'moired bemolchus': "Kul ho'oimeir Dovid choto einoi elo toi'eh". But the point remains: Dovid did NOT try to justify his actions as we see in Tenach.) T'hilim 51:18 (:16 in Xian texts) is in the context of Dovid's actions as discussed above–actions which cannot be expiated by korbonos, but rather by tshuva.


In T'hilim 51 Dovid Hamelech is speaking about the situation with Bas-Sheva and Uriya Hachiti. Dovid's statement in verse 18 accords with the laws that are given in the Torah, as korbonos (animal sacrifices) are not brought for willful actions.

So called "Ashkenaz":

Genesis 10
2 The sonsa]">[a] of Japheth:

Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras.

3 The sons of Gomer:

Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah.

 

[Koichos]

From your perspective To give any more validity to Islam than Christianity is laughable

I dunno if you’re serious, trolling or making a point I don’t understand

Whether one is more 'valid' than the other is tangential when considering that any system other than Judaism is foreign to the Torah—the only true and authentic source of instruction and enlightenment from Hashem. Still, one can acknowledge the simple fact that Islam is closer to Judaism than Xianity, and that Jews have far more in common with Moslems than with Xians. Not to mention, a sizeable portion of Moslems (the Arabs) are our cousins with whom we have had a near 4,000-year history predating even the revelation at Sinai.

But are Jewish people in living Arab countries not allowed to learn Hebrew. Is it not taught to them? Don’t they keep the traditions?

Jews have been a multilingual people for most, if not all, of Jewish history. Historically, Judeo-Arabic was the lingua franca of Jews living in Arab lands, while Hebrew was the language reserved for Torah learning, liturgy, and observance. Aramaic was also common as it became the lingua franca in golus Bavel. Teimonim in particular follow a unique minhag of counting the days of Sfiras Ha'Oimer in Aramaic as opposed to Hebrew since they preserved the ancient Babylonian minhag where the lingua franca of most people was Aramaic.

The crazy thing is Muslims respect Jesus, and Jews hate him (for lack of a better word)

We don't hate Yoshke, we simply reject the notion that he's the Moshiach according to his lack of fulfillment of messianic prophecies promised in Tenach.

Like the Mishnah says: He who honors the Torah is himself honored by the people, and he who dishonors the Torah is himself dishonored by the people.

but you think they believe the same as you?

No.

Christianity respects Jews as it should cause any Christian must be Jewish first.

Xians are not Jews. There are currently ~13 million Jews, not 2.5 billion. There are more Xians living today than Jews that have ever existed.

It’s just Jews who believe in Jesus from the beginning

Yoshke's Jewish talmidim were among the fringe of Jewry.

But ask a Muslim if Jew or any non Muslim would be allowed in the kaaba in Mecca to pray.

Even so, a Jew would not be permitted to partake in such a thing since bowing and prostrating before the Ka'aba is foreign worship. We bow and prostrate only on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur during Oleinu L'Shabei'ach (and towards Yerusholoyim, not Mecca).

Since Jewish people/nobody is permitted to say YHWH “I Am” in reference to God then their must be some other personal representation of God.

י-ה-ו-ה is a third-person conjugation, and it does not mean 'I Am'. 'I Am' is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word אהיה which appears in the Torah as part of the phrase אהיה אשר אהיה in Shmos 3:14. I discuss אהיה and י-ה-ו-ה here.

I think we all agree God isn’t literally “a Man” or male pronoun or whatever. It’s a spirit or “higher power”

And, grammatically, even if you want to describe Hashem as an 'it', you still use the masculinum in Hebrew, ergo you say 'He', but actually mean 'it'. When we say 'He' we are not representing Hashem as a male-gendered organism Who has the reproductive organs of a male. To be clear, we are not discussing 'males' and 'females' as we know it; we are discussing the 'mystical masculine'. The reason why we say 'He' all the time is because the default relationship, the primary context, is that which Shlomo Hamelech describes with vivid imagery in Shir Ha'Shirim–for the whole structure of the text revolves around expressing the relationship between Hashem and Klal Yisroel as a relationship between husband and wife. With regard to the mystical masculine and the structure of Shir Ha'Shirim, one might parallel 'man' (Hashem) and 'woman' (Jews) with form and material, where 'material' (Jews) is a physical reality while 'form' (Hashem) is a concept that finds its expression in a material. As for example, in a steel bat, 'steel' is the material while 'bat' is the concept or form expressed in the steel. The Riboino Shel Olom provides the 'form', the concept, the spiritual values and realities we as Jews are destined to connect to; while it is in our hands to provide the 'material', the tangible expressions for these realities here in the physical world.

Therefore, the primary relationship between Hashem and Klal Yisroel is the lover relationship of male and female. And in that lover relationship of male and female, Israel is the wife. We are the woman; we were betrothed at Har Sinai. 'He' betrothed us when He took us out of Mitsroyim, which makes us the feminine. Therefore He is the masculine. Sometimes Hashem refers to us as His wife, sometimes He refers to us as a sister, and sometimes He refers to us as a mother. (Kabbolistically, daughter, sister and mother parallel the three positions nekudos (vowels) are situated among the Hebrew letters: a dot under a letter represents the daughter, a dot in the middle of a letter represents the sister, and a dot on top of a letter represents the mother.) In terms of Hashem being represented as a masculine or paternal figure in the Torah, we find many examples: D'vorim 32:6; Shmos 4:22; Yeshayohu 63:16, 64:7; Yirmiyohu 31:8; Divrey HaYomim A 29:10; Malachi 1:6. Although in Divrey HaYomim A 29:10 most meforshim (e.g., Rada"k) follow the cantillations in interpreting "our father" as signifying Israel (i.e., Yaakov), the Rokei'ach suggests in his commentary to the Siddur (p. קצה) that "our father" refers to Hashem. Accordingly, we say Ovinu SheBaShomoyim (Our Father in Heaven), not Imeinu SheBaShomoyim (Our Mother in Heaven).

If Jews can’t call on Gods name who are they really praying to today?

The very first appearance of אדנ-י in the Torah (B'raishis 15:2) is a direct reference to the Name י-ה-ו-ה, used by Avrohom Ovinu himself while calling upon Hashem.

"...ויאמר אברם אדנ-י י-ה-ו-ה מה תתן לי"

Hashem has a myriad of sanctified names: י-ה and אדנ-י and אהו-ה and א-ל and א-לוה and אלקים and אלקי and שד-י and צב-אות and אהי-ה–and of course His Essential Divine Name י-ה-ו-ה. The Torah makes it clear that all the various divine names go back to the same G-d, י-ה-ו-ה. The appellative "אדנ-י" refers to י-ה-ו-ה. Just as one does not refer to his mother or his father by their proper names (but rather by an appellative), so, one does not refer to Hashem by His Proper Name (but rather by an appellative). אדנ-י and השם are appellatives.

Especially without holy areas,

Any place where 10 Jews congregate is a holy area (think minyan).

Eretz Yisroel is holy—it is the holiest of all the lands, and the Temple Mount is the holiest area. The stairs to the Temple Mount are holier than that. The stairs to the Holy Temple are holier than that. The women's section is holier than that. The Kohanim's section is holier than that. The vestibule and the altar are holier than that. The hall is holier than that. And the Holy of Holies is holier than them! Eretz Yisroel has a certain air about it, actually and figuratively. It is said that Eretz Yisroel's atmosphere wisens man: אוירא דארץ ישראל מחכים.

priests,

Kohanim never left. We still dukhen, perform the pidyon haben, and observe many other ancient rituals specific to Kohanim.

temples,

We do not have the Temple, but we have 'temples', known as shuls or batai knesses. As long as the basic needs are there (Torah, ner tamid, siddurim), a room in one's house, a 'shtiblach', can serve as a shul.

and sacrifices to intercede as you say for their sins.

Korbonos would not be required to ensure one's vindication even if the Bais Hamikdosh stood tomorrow. Many of the avayros committed today are committed through defiance rather than ignorance and would therefore receive no expiation by korbonos.

How are the 5 pillars of Islam Muslim believe in and practice any different from what religious Jewish people do to “submit to God”.

We differ from the very first pillar (Mohammed as Hashem's final prophet).

Moslems saw what we were doing and took it upon themselves to implement some of the restrictions into Islam. However, regardless of what the Qur'an says, Moslems actually make it harder on themselves as they have no obligation from the Torah to do so. Moreover, much of the Qur'an is derived from pre-Islamic Jewish teachings. Like the 'teachings' ascribed to Yoshke in the New Testament, many of the 'teachings' ascribed to Mohammed in the Qur'an are in fact derived from various Jewish sources, especially the Midrosh and the Talmud. For example, the narrative of Avrohom Ovinu and the idols in Surah 21:62-69 (also 37:91-98 and many other passages) is not found in the Tenach, but rather the Targum (Yonoson on B'raishis טו,ז) and the Midrosh (B'raishis Rabboh לח,יג). Similarly, the story of Cain and Abel in Surah 5:31 and the story of the Golden Calf in Surah 20:85-88 are derived from another Midrosh (PdR"E 21:10 and PdR"E 45:5-6). And Surah 5:32 can be found in the Bavli (m. Sanhedrin ד,ה - b. Sanhedrin לז,א) and the Yerushalmi (y. Sanhedrin כג,א).

But anyone who is Jewish today right now will have to reject Jesus at some point, just as Muslims do.

“No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”

You can’t not accept Jesus without also denying “the father” at the same time.

A Jew's denial of Hashem is rooted in the abandonment of Torah, not l'hovdil the rejection of Yoshke.

You can’t believe in God and not Jesus. And vice versa

I can, and do. My forefathers did not daven to or 'through' a Yoshke, and neither do I.

 

[Koichos]

So called "Ashkenaz":

Genesis 10
2 The sonsa]">[a] of Japheth:

Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras.

3 The sons of Gomer:

Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah.

In the context of post-biblical geography, Ashkenaz is nothing more than the medieval Hebrew exonym for Germany. The Jews who settled in Ashkenaz were called 'Yehuday Ashkenaz' or 'Ashkenazi'.

Ashkenazi is not a biblical bloodline but rather a geo-ethnological term denoting Jewish lineage traced back through time to those Jews who established the founding Jewish communities of Ashkenaz.

 

[Everythingg]

In the context of post-biblical geography, Ashkenaz is nothing more than the medieval Hebrew exonym for Germany. The Jews who settled in Ashkenaz were called 'Yehuday Ashkenaz' or 'Ashkenazi'.

Ashkenazi is not a biblical bloodline but rather a geo-ethnological term denoting Jewish lineage traced back through time to those Jews who established the founding Jewish communities of Ashkenaz.

No israelite would rename themselves to a son of Japheth. Especially when the Bible says:

Genesis 9:27
May God enlarge Japheth, And may he dwell in the tents of Shem; And may Canaan be his servant.”

You’re gonna have to come out of them tents here pretty soon my guy

 

[DoubleClutch]

Whether one is more 'valid' than the other is tangential when considering that any system other than Judaism is foreign to the Torah—the only true and authentic source of instruction and enlightenment from Hashem. Still, one can acknowledge the simple fact that Islam is closer to Judaism than Xianity, and that Jews have far more in common with Moslems than with Xians. Not to mention, a sizeable portion of Moslems (the Arabs) are our cousins with whom we have had a near 4,000-year history predating even the revelation at Sinai.


Jews have been a multilingual people for most, if not all, of Jewish history. Historically, Judeo-Arabic was the lingua franca of Jews living in Arab lands, while Hebrew was the language reserved for Torah learning, liturgy, and observance. Aramaic was also common as it became the lingua franca in golus Bavel. Teimonim in particular follow a unique minhag of counting the days of Sfiras Ha'Oimer in Aramaic as opposed to Hebrew since they preserved the ancient Babylonian minhag where the lingua franca of most people was Aramaic.


We don't hate Yoshke, we simply reject the notion that he's the Moshiach according to his lack of fulfillment of messianic prophecies promised in Tenach.

Like the Mishnah says: He who honors the Torah is himself honored by the people, and he who dishonors the Torah is himself dishonored by the people.


No.


Xians are not Jews. There are currently ~13 million Jews, not 2.5 billion. There are more Xians living today than Jews that have ever existed.


Yoshke's Jewish talmidim were among the fringe of Jewry.


Even so, a Jew would not be permitted to partake in such a thing since bowing and prostrating before the Ka'aba is foreign worship. We bow and prostrate only on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur during Oleinu L'Shabei'ach (and towards Yerusholoyim, not Mecca).


י-ה-ו-ה is a third-person conjugation, and it does not mean 'I Am'. 'I Am' is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word אהיה which appears in the Torah as part of the phrase אהיה אשר אהיה in Shmos 3:14. I discuss אהיה and י-ה-ו-ה here.


And, grammatically, even if you want to describe Hashem as an 'it', you still use the masculinum in Hebrew, ergo you say 'He', but actually mean 'it'. When we say 'He' we are not representing Hashem as a male-gendered organism Who has the reproductive organs of a male. To be clear, we are not discussing 'males' and 'females' as we know it; we are discussing the 'mystical masculine'. The reason why we say 'He' all the time is because the default relationship, the primary context, is that which Shlomo Hamelech describes with vivid imagery in Shir Ha'Shirim–for the whole structure of the text revolves around expressing the relationship between Hashem and Klal Yisroel as a relationship between husband and wife. With regard to the mystical masculine and the structure of Shir Ha'Shirim, one might parallel 'man' (Hashem) and 'woman' (Jews) with form and material, where 'material' (Jews) is a physical reality while 'form' (Hashem) is a concept that finds its expression in a material. As for example, in a steel bat, 'steel' is the material while 'bat' is the concept or form expressed in the steel. The Riboino Shel Olom provides the 'form', the concept, the spiritual values and realities we as Jews are destined to connect to; while it is in our hands to provide the 'material', the tangible expressions for these realities here in the physical world.

Therefore, the primary relationship between Hashem and Klal Yisroel is the lover relationship of male and female. And in that lover relationship of male and female, Israel is the wife. We are the woman; we were betrothed at Har Sinai. 'He' betrothed us when He took us out of Mitsroyim, which makes us the feminine. Therefore He is the masculine. Sometimes Hashem refers to us as His wife, sometimes He refers to us as a sister, and sometimes He refers to us as a mother. (Kabbolistically, daughter, sister and mother parallel the three positions nekudos (vowels) are situated among the Hebrew letters: a dot under a letter represents the daughter, a dot in the middle of a letter represents the sister, and a dot on top of a letter represents the mother.) In terms of Hashem being represented as a masculine or paternal figure in the Torah, we find many examples: D'vorim 32:6; Shmos 4:22; Yeshayohu 63:16, 64:7; Yirmiyohu 31:8; Divrey HaYomim A 29:10; Malachi 1:6. Although in Divrey HaYomim A 29:10 most meforshim (e.g., Rada"k) follow the cantillations in interpreting "our father" as signifying Israel (i.e., Yaakov), the Rokei'ach suggests in his commentary to the Siddur (p. קצה) that "our father" refers to Hashem. Accordingly, we say Ovinu SheBaShomoyim (Our Father in Heaven), not Imeinu SheBaShomoyim (Our Mother in Heaven).


The very first appearance of אדנ-י in the Torah (B'raishis 15:2) is a direct reference to the Name י-ה-ו-ה, used by Avrohom Ovinu himself while calling upon Hashem.

"...ויאמר אברם אדנ-י י-ה-ו-ה מה תתן לי"

Hashem has a myriad of sanctified names: י-ה and אדנ-י and אהו-ה and א-ל and א-לוה and אלקים and אלקי and שד-י and צב-אות and אהי-ה–and of course His Essential Divine Name י-ה-ו-ה. The Torah makes it clear that all the various divine names go back to the same G-d, י-ה-ו-ה. The appellative "אדנ-י" refers to י-ה-ו-ה. Just as one does not refer to his mother or his father by their proper names (but rather by an appellative), so, one does not refer to Hashem by His Proper Name (but rather by an appellative). אדנ-י and השם are appellatives.


Any place where 10 Jews congregate is a holy area (think minyan).

Eretz Yisroel is holy—it is the holiest of all the lands, and the Temple Mount is the holiest area. The stairs to the Temple Mount are holier than that. The stairs to the Holy Temple are holier than that. The women's section is holier than that. The Kohanim's section is holier than that. The vestibule and the altar are holier than that. The hall is holier than that. And the Holy of Holies is holier than them! Eretz Yisroel has a certain air about it, actually and figuratively. It is said that Eretz Yisroel's atmosphere wisens man: אוירא דארץ ישראל מחכים.


Kohanim never left. We still dukhen, perform the pidyon haben, and observe many other ancient rituals specific to Kohanim.


We do not have the Temple, but we have 'temples', known as shuls or batai knesses. As long as the basic needs are there (Torah, ner tamid, siddurim), a room in one's house, a 'shtiblach', can serve as a shul.


Korbonos would not be required to ensure one's vindication even if the Bais Hamikdosh stood tomorrow. Many of the avayros committed today are committed through defiance rather than ignorance and would therefore receive no expiation by korbonos.


We differ from the very first pillar (Mohammed as Hashem's final prophet).

Moslems saw what we were doing and took it upon themselves to implement some of the restrictions into Islam. However, regardless of what the Qur'an says, Moslems actually make it harder on themselves as they have no obligation from the Torah to do so. Moreover, much of the Qur'an is derived from pre-Islamic Jewish teachings. Like the 'teachings' ascribed to Yoshke in the New Testament, many of the 'teachings' ascribed to Mohammed in the Qur'an are in fact derived from various Jewish sources, especially the Midrosh and the Talmud. For example, the narrative of Avrohom Ovinu and the idols in Surah 21:62-69 (also 37:91-98 and many other passages) is not found in the Tenach, but rather the Targum (Yonoson on B'raishis טו,ז) and the Midrosh (B'raishis Rabboh לח,יג). Similarly, the story of Cain and Abel in Surah 5:31 and the story of the Golden Calf in Surah 20:85-88 are derived from another Midrosh (PdR"E 21:10 and PdR"E 45:5-6). And Surah 5:32 can be found in the Bavli (m. Sanhedrin ד,ה - b. Sanhedrin לז,א) and the Yerushalmi (y. Sanhedrin כג,א).


A Jew's denial of Hashem is rooted in the abandonment of Torah, not l'hovdil the rejection of Yoshke.


I can, and do. My forefathers did not daven to or 'through' a Yoshke, and neither do I.

What I’m understanding from your answers is that modern day Judaism has much more in common than you think or realize

The more we go back and forth I realize myself we believe and we’re taught the same things or at least see God the same

despite you claim Christianity being different religions

Both see God as father in the role he plays in the relationship with us, his “sons” “children”, etc...

Both see the believers as the “bride” to God/Jesus as the groom literally since Jesus as a human is male and figuratively representing the role he plays and relationship you see in the Bible past-future

Only thing we really disagree is about Jesus and I like I said Muslims also disagree with Jewish views on Jesus

Muslims also don’t trust the Jewish Torah or the Bible 100% and pick and chose what they want to believe as it fits their religion

Still don’t understand how that makes Muslims just like Jews because they’re your “cousins” or claim to come form Ishmael

And even if Hebrews/Arabs/Jews today are historically from the same region it doesn’t make them the same religion

But if we are to look at race

Obviously Arabs are mostly Muslims today and those practicing Judaism like yourself (especially those European Jews in Isreal) are white.

You are not the same.

But I understand there are many Arabs in Judaism and Israeli people who are Muslim.

Here’s one question, seeing how you like to bring up language similarities and translations when it comes to Gods name or what Jewish people call him....

If an ARAB Jew (who’s appearance is Arab/Middle eastern) prays to God and calls him ALLAH

And you see this from far, not knowing anything about this person how can you distinguish him as being Jewish or Muslim religion.

Since you say they worship the same God, does it even matter?

You said,

Even so, a Jew would not be permitted to partake in such a thing since bowing and prostrating before the Ka'aba is foreign worship. We bow and prostrate only on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur during Oleinu L'Shabei'ach (and towards Yerusholoyim, not Mecca).

Ok, so how can ONE God (as you claim) have 2 different holy places appointed for the same people?

Also when you talk of Holy places.

How is it that the Holiest place for Judaism is covered by the dome of the rock?

Why would the God of Judaism allow this if that place is still significant today and need for religious practices daily?

In your viewpoint does it even matter since you claim Muslims worship the “same God”

Maybe it’s existence is just another way of validation of your collective Gods to Muslims

Also in the old Temple, there was the “holiest of holies” where its believed God resided. What happen when that was destroyed?

Where did God go? Where is the “holiest of holies” equivalent in Judaism today and how does it function?

Can you explain this because I’m not sure I understand it correctly:

Korbonos would not be required to ensure one's vindication even if the Bais Hamikdosh stood tomorrow. Many of the avayros committed today are committed through defiance rather than ignorance and would therefore receive no expiation by korbonos.

I take it you’re basically saying Jews “repent and ask for forgiveness” through prayer to God the same way Christians do.

And “avayros” by ignorance or human nature are covered.

Lastly,

you say jewish don’t believe in Muhammad as a prophet right?

What don’t Jews believe about Muhammad (life/teachings) that makes him not a prophet?

When did the era of prophets end in Judaism?

Because Jews during the time of Jesus thought him to be a prophet, right?

You said

A Jew's denial of Hashem is rooted in the abandonment of Torah, not l'hovdil the rejection of Yoshke.

The Only big problem the Jewish leaders had with Jesus was his claims to be God or divine, correct?

what other ways do you claim he abandoned the Torah

So you think Muslims today keep the Torah better than Jesus did 2000 years ago?

 

[Koichos]

How is it that the Holiest place for Judaism is covered by the dome of the rock?

Whatever the specific punishment, Chaza"l foretold the situation in a Midrosh (PdR"E 30:12).

Why would the God of Judaism allow this if that place is still significant today and need for religious practices daily?

Read the Tocheicha.

Also in the old Temple, there was the “holiest of holies” where its believed God resided.

That the Shchinah dwells in the Holy of Holies is used in an anthropomorphic sense: dibrah tora k'loshn b'nai odom, "Torah speaks in the language of man". The Shchinah is simply the divine presence felt by humans. This is how it's to be understood in Targum Unk'lus.

What happen when that was destroyed?

The Kodesh Kodoshim is but one of many places in which the Shchinah is mentioned as being present. The Shchinah was the source of the kedushoh (holiness) within the Bais Hamikdosh. When the Shchinah departed, the Temple's kedushoh was removed, leaving it open for destruction. The reason the Kodesh Kodoshim is the holiest room in the Temple is because that is where the Shchinah dwells. When Titus Harasha went into the Kodesh Kodoshim with a zoina (harlot), slashed the poroches (curtains to the ark), spread open a Saifer Torah and had relations with this zoina upon it, he defiled the Kodesh Kodoshim. The Jews knew that if the Koihen Godol fumbled on the avoda (service) in the Kodesh Kodoshim he was niftar on the spot (!); yet not only did Titus not die, but he emerged from the Kodesh Kodoshim unscathed. The reason Titus did not die on the spot was because there was no kedushoh within the Bais Hamikdosh as the Shchinah had already departed. Once the Shchinah departed from the Bais Hamikdosh, our enemies were able to destroy it.

Where did God go?

Hashem is Infinite, everywhere at all times. When we say 'Shchinah', we are talking about the nurturing mother, the G-dly motherliness, Her divine presence felt by man. 'Her', for the Hebrew word שכינה is in the feminine aspect. This is the 'mystical feminine'.

you say jewish don’t believe in Muhammad as a prophet right?

What don’t Jews believe about Muhammad (life/teachings) that makes him not a prophet?

Prophecy was removed from the world long before Mohammed.

When did the era of prophets end in Judaism?

The last three prophets were Chaggai, Zecharyoh and Malachi.

So you think Muslims today keep the Torah better than Jesus did 2000 years ago?

The Jewish People are and have been the only people keeping Torah. Like T'hilim says: Moggid d'vorov l'Yaakov chukov u'mishpotov l'yisroel, "He gave His words to Jacob, His laws and His statutes to Israel". But that Loy oseh chain l'chul goy, "He [Hashem] did not do so [give this over] to any other nation", thus Mishpotim bol yodum HaleluKah, "they do not know the precepts. HaleluKah!". Only Israel has in its possession the two parts of Torah. The Torah has been around in translated form for at least 2,200 years (the first translation being Koine Greek), and over the millennia has been translated into virtually every language on the planet. And yet, we see that of all the nations, it is only the Jewish People who are able to take the Torah and understand what Hashem wants of them, of us, and how to implement these laws, statutes and commandments into our everyday lives. When you give the Torah to the rest of the world, little to nothing happens. They have the hardware (Torah), but the software (Jew) is missing. This is something only Jews as a people possess.

If rain falls on a field comprised of rocks and thorns and thistles, we know that nothing will grow as a result. But when that same rain falls on a fertile field where seeds have been planted, seeds will then grow when that rain comes and spurs it into life. When the Torah is given to Klal Yisroel, you have a true kabbalah of Torah, a true "reception" and understanding of Torah because these people have a unique talent which was bestowed upon them by Hashem, ingrained in their being, part of the national psyche of the Jewish People–the special nature and spiritual insight of Klal Yisroel: עם חכם ונבון. But the u'mois ho'oilom (other nations) when they hear those very same words, and read the very same text, they know not what to make of them. It is like a letter that is sent to the wrong address. It is never read and never understood (even if it is read, it will not be understood); but when it's sent to the right address, and it's received by the right people–who understand this ancient language and tradition and have what it takes within them–they create what we call Judaism.

 

[Koichos]

No israelite would rename themselves to a son of Japheth.

Ashkenazim are descended from the Jews of Eretz Yisroel while Sefardim and Teimonim are descended from the Jews of Bavel. The Ashkenazishe masora (minhogim, brochos, tefillos, piyyutim, shyttos) can be traced back to Eretz Yisroel mi'mos ha'churban.

Especially when the Bible says:

Genesis 9:27
May God enlarge Japheth, And may he dwell in the tents of Shem; And may Canaan be his servant.”

You’re gonna have to come out of them tents here pretty soon my guy

À la Koreish (Cyrus) the Persian, scion of Yefes.

 

[Everythingg]

Ashkenazim are descended from the Jews of Eretz Yisroel while Sefardim and Teimonim are descended from the Jews of Bavel. The Ashkenazishe masora (minhogim, brochos, tefillos, piyyutim, shyttos) can be traced back to Eretz Yisroel mi'mos ha'churban.

Deuteronomy 28:45All these curses will come upon you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the LORD your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you.46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever.

The problem is you can’t prove what you say using the Bible.

And I repeat no Israelite would name himself after a son of Japheth.

 

[Reign_Of_The_Most_High]

there is hieroglyphs then there is coptic

Mdw Ntr and Coptic yes like you said which is a later outcropping of Mdw Ntr that came later. There is a lot of good points brought in this thread, some of it is going to be left to the individual to believe if they want to or not. But like @Everythingg stated, Columbus purpose of trying to find the "Holy Land" is due to him bargining with Queen Elizabeth and Ferdinand to fund his expeditions to plunder, pillage and enslave the land and its inhabitants via a Papal Bull (Decree), but he never made it to America he made it to the Caribbean (Trinidad to be specific).

The description of the peoples in these lands is that they looked like "Negroes", which is in stark contrast to the modern depiction of "Native Americans". Here are a couple videoes that add more information to the overall puzzle that the European, Arabic, Asian confederacy since ancient times has evolved into. There was a core theology that melinated people across the globe adhered too, there was a fracture and invasion that happened by outsiders, one of the MO's you will discovered is there everywhere the aforementioned people went they labeled the people they encountered as heretics, destroyed what they could of their spiritual/religious frameworks and made them convert to enemies or infused part of the natives with the foreigners religion.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Whatever the specific punishment, Chaza"l foretold the situation in a Midrosh (PdR"E 30:12).


Read the Tocheicha.


That the Shchinah dwells in the Holy of Holies is used in an anthropomorphic sense: dibrah tora k'loshn b'nai odom, "Torah speaks in the language of man". The Shchinah is simply the divine presence felt by humans. This is how it's to be understood in Targum Unk'lus.


The Kodesh Kodoshim is but one of many places in which the Shchinah is mentioned as being present. The Shchinah was the source of the kedushoh (holiness) within the Bais Hamikdosh. When the Shchinah departed, the Temple's kedushoh was removed, leaving it open for destruction. The reason the Kodesh Kodoshim is the holiest room in the Temple is because that is where the Shchinah dwells. When Titus Harasha went into the Kodesh Kodoshim with a zoina (harlot), slashed the poroches (curtains to the ark), spread open a Saifer Torah and had relations with this zoina upon it, he defiled the Kodesh Kodoshim. The Jews knew that if the Koihen Godol fumbled on the avoda (service) in the Kodesh Kodoshim he was niftar on the spot (!); yet not only did Titus not die, but he emerged from the Kodesh Kodoshim unscathed. The reason Titus did not die on the spot was because there was no kedushoh within the Bais Hamikdosh as the Shchinah had already departed. Once the Shchinah departed from the Bais Hamikdosh, our enemies were able to destroy it.


Hashem is Infinite, everywhere at all times. When we say 'Shchinah', we are talking about the nurturing mother, the G-dly motherliness, Her divine presence felt by man. 'Her', for the Hebrew word שכינה is in the feminine aspect. This is the 'mystical feminine'.


Prophecy was removed from the world long before Mohammed.


The last three prophets were Chaggai, Zecharyoh and Malachi.


The Jewish People are and have been the only people keeping Torah. Like T'hilim says: Moggid d'vorov l'Yaakov chukov u'mishpotov l'yisroel, "He gave His words to Jacob, His laws and His statutes to Israel". But that Loy oseh chain l'chul goy, "He [Hashem] did not do so [give this over] to any other nation", thus Mishpotim bol yodum HaleluKah, "they do not know the precepts. HaleluKah!". Only Israel has in its possession the two parts of Torah. The Torah has been around in translated form for at least 2,200 years (the first translation being Koine Greek), and over the millennia has been translated into virtually every language on the planet. And yet, we see that of all the nations, it is only the Jewish People who are able to take the Torah and understand what Hashem wants of them, of us, and how to implement these laws, statutes and commandments into our everyday lives. When you give the Torah to the rest of the world, little to nothing happens. They have the hardware (Torah), but the software (Jew) is missing. This is something only Jews as a people possess.

If rain falls on a field comprised of rocks and thorns and thistles, we know that nothing will grow as a result. But when that same rain falls on a fertile field where seeds have been planted, seeds will then grow when that rain comes and spurs it into life. When the Torah is given to Klal Yisroel, you have a true kabbalah of Torah, a true "reception" and understanding of Torah because these people have a unique talent which was bestowed upon them by Hashem, ingrained in their being, part of the national psyche of the Jewish People–the special nature and spiritual insight of Klal Yisroel: עם חכם ונבון. But the u'mois ho'oilom (other nations) when they hear those very same words, and read the very same text, they know not what to make of them. It is like a letter that is sent to the wrong address. It is never read and never understood (even if it is read, it will not be understood); but when it's sent to the right address, and it's received by the right people–who understand this ancient language and tradition and have what it takes within them–they create what we call Judaism.

Ok, I think I’m confused as to what you see as “gods presence” when praying or worshiping, etc... like people do today

And the literal “god presence or power” which as you say nobody could experience except 1 priest who god allowed

There is a difference between then (Old Testament/covenant) and now.

Of course we say Gods presence is around when we pray, that’s common sense otherwise defeats the purpose of praying (if you believe in the God you pray to )

But when you say “shchinah” what do you mean in context of the Torah

Is this the same as the God presence that was in the ark of covenant when the Israelites traveled with it.

Wasn’t this more than gods invisible presence you can pray to but rather a real power and force that was represented by and resides in the ark

What’s the significance of The Mercy Seat then?

Also in the Torah Israelites could feel the presence (shchinah) of God before the ark was built?

And even without being near the ark.

But the Ark had some different special significance and role as god intended didn’t it?

When did the story of Titus Harasha happen?

What book was it in?

If gods presence is seen as “her” or a mother/mother like how is that any different from seeing gods presence/power as “he”(spirit of god the father) it” or a Holy Spirit as jesus and Christians would later refer to it as?

the last prophet was John the Baptist. How did Jews of the time view him if he was not.

If Jesus is considered a good Jew back then, doesn’t that legitimize what was said about John.

I guess you have to explain John if you don’t believe Jesus was also sent by God.

Where in the Torah does it say prophecy is finished and at what point/event in history marked this according to you?

The idea that religion is only for _______ race of people and only in a specific language by this _______ race or group of people in this specific time no longer applies (even if god intended it to be) and never was because Jews always broke the commandments

This idea is the same thing islam uses to give their religion and Torah some type of role in history and authenticity or necessity which Judaism and Christianity lacks

But it’s just a same trick that keeps both Muslims & Jews from accepting Jesus.

In your analogy of rain, soil and seed, you have to see yourself (non believers) as the ones who have the “rocky hearts” just like the pharaoh.

You’re focusing on the soil but you need to focus on the rain.

Rain doesn’t change or choose where it falls but soil can change

Like you said God is eternal/immutable and doesn’t change

People can change everyday. Different race/language/nation/era doesn’t matter to God. We are all Gods children.

Israelites are his original people and God must keep his promises to them on this earth but that doesn’t give them a monopoly on the religion which is available to all who believe.

 

[Koichos]

But when you say “shchinah” what do you mean in context of the Torah

The word שכינה is used primarily in Unk'lus and other Targumim (it does not appear in Torah or Na"ch).

Is this the same as the God presence that was in the ark of covenant when the Israelites traveled with it.

Yes, the Shchinah was present in the Mishkon (Tabernacle), essentially a traveling Temple in the desert.

Wasn’t this more than gods invisible presence you can pray to but rather a real power and force that was represented by and resides in the ark

The Shchinah refers to a particular level of G-dliness that is 'shochen' (dwells) among us.

What’s the significance of The Mercy Seat then?

There is a Tosefta that says:
"Who davens in chuts lo'orets should face Eretz Yisroel;
who davens in Eretz Yisroel should face Yerusholoyim;
who davens in Yerusholoyim should face the Bais Hamikdosh;
who davens in the Bais Hamikdosh should face the Kodesh Kodoshim;
who davens in the Kodesh Kodoshim should face the Bais HaKapores [wall behind the aron];
who stands behind the Bais HaKapores should visualize himself as though he were standing before the HaKapores [cover of the aron]..."

When did the story of Titus Harasha happen?

What book was it in?

The Romans destroyed the Second Temple under Emperor Titus no later than 70 CE. The Western Wall is the western retaining wall of the Temple Mount. It is part of a wall that surrounds the mountain for protection. Behind it is a large open space which is the mountain (Har Ha'Bayis). In the middle of the mountain was a separate structure with its own walls known as the Mikdosh. What you see at the Western Wall is the wall of the mountain, the western wall of Har Ha'Bayis where many go to daven. If a Jew is davening from between the Western Wall and the Dome of the Rock, the Halocho is to daven towards the Dome with his back to the Wall.. (This is because Jews are to face the Kodesh Kodoshim when davening, traditionally and archeologically identified with the site of the Dome of the Rock.)

If gods presence is seen as “her” or a mother/mother like how is that any different from seeing gods presence/power as “he”(spirit of god the father) it” or a Holy Spirit as jesus and Christians would later refer to it as?

There are no gender neutral nouns in Biblical Hebrew. The names used are based on language construct rather than any particular sexual identity.

the last prophet was John the Baptist.

Prophecy departed from gentiles in the time of Bil'am and Jews in the time of Malachi. John and Mohammed, like Miniver Cheevy, were born too late.

How did Jews of the time view him if he was not.

We have no masora from our sages that John the Baptist was a prophet.

The idea that religion is only for _______ race of people and only in a specific language by this _______ race or group of people in this specific time no longer applies (even if god intended it to be) and never was because Jews always broke the commandments

The Torah is a yerusha to the Jews, applicable for all times and generations. It is not a historical document nor is it bound to any specific time period.

 

[DoubleClutch]

The word שכינה is used primarily in Unk'lus and other Targumim (it does not appear in Torah or Na"ch).


Yes, the Shchinah was present in the Mishkon (Tabernacle), essentially a traveling Temple in the desert.


The Shchinah refers to a particular level of G-dliness that is 'shochen' (dwells) among us.


There is a Tosefta that says:
"Who davens in chuts lo'orets should face Eretz Yisroel;
who davens in Eretz Yisroel should face Yerusholoyim;
who davens in Yerusholoyim should face the Bais Hamikdosh;
who davens in the Bais Hamikdosh should face the Kodesh Kodoshim;
who davens in the Kodesh Kodoshim should face the Bais HaKapores [wall behind the aron];
who stands behind the Bais HaKapores should visualize himself as though he were standing before the HaKapores [cover of the aron]..."


The Romans destroyed the Second Temple under Emperor Titus no later than 70 CE. The Western Wall is the western retaining wall of the Temple Mount. It is part of a wall that surrounds the mountain for protection. Behind it is a large open space which is the mountain (Har Ha'Bayis). In the middle of the mountain was a separate structure with its own walls known as the Mikdosh. What you see at the Western Wall is the wall of the mountain, the western wall of Har Ha'Bayis where many go to daven. If a Jew is davening from between the Western Wall and the Dome of the Rock, the Halocho is to daven towards the Dome with his back to the Wall.. (This is because Jews are to face the Kodesh Kodoshim when davening, traditionally and archeologically identified with the site of the Dome of the Rock.)


There are no gender neutral nouns in Biblical Hebrew. The names used are based on language construct rather than any particular sexual identity.


Prophecy departed from gentiles in the time of Bil'am and Jews in the time of Malachi. John and Mohammed, like Miniver Cheevy, were born too late.


We have no masora from our sages that John the Baptist was a prophet.


The Torah is a yerusha to the Jews, applicable for all times and generations. It is not a historical document nor is it bound to any specific time period.

Ok so it’s basically Shchinah is how you interpret it today. Or how you were taught at least

Christians see it as the Holy Spirit, Gods spirit, spirit of the lord, etc....

Same difference, there is no lesser or greater when it comes to “Gods spirit”

God spirit isn’t a gender but in reference to Jesus being a man or God being a “father” figure I guess masculine is a more appropriate and fitting way to describe it although i do see why you’d see it like a “motherly” spirit. It’s all a figures of speech

You didn’t really answer my question about Titus but I’ll look it up....

But it only supports my point

You say Torah is:

“a yerusha to the Jews, applicable for all times and generations. It is not a historical document nor is it bound to any specific time period“

And I agree it’s to the Jews But it is both religious and historical events happening then and now.

The problem is Jewish can’t see it as anything other than a just religious scripture because it validates everything you believe and don’t believe about Jesus/Christianity..... and any other religions

You think I’m saying “the time of the Jews has ended” with the Old Testament and God has moved on but I’m not.

Jews lost their kingdom/land and the temple destroyed. This is just historical.

Also Like you said the era of prophets ended. Wasn’t the prophets whole purpose to warn the people and get Israel back on the right path and back to God?

I’d say John was the last prophet and Jesus is the Messiah (and you disagree) but that was 2000 years ago

So between then and now Jews are waiting on the Messiah to save them right?

if this was true and the fate of the Jewish people to this day going on 2000 years wouldn’t that insinuate their God has been defeated?

That would also mean Christians God has betrayed his “chosen people” and broken his promise.

From your own perspective the Hebrew “chosen people” are supposed to rule on earth through God forever. No intermissions, no losing land, no destroying temples, sharing holy places with other religions, etc...

How do you make sense of that?

Mind you, None of that matters today to Christians even those who are Jewish Christians.

If it did, it would insinuate God wasn’t in control.

You gotta accept religion is bigger than what can be defined or claimed by one group of people alone

Historically Jews have their own unique experience. And The Bible tells what will happen with Gods chosen people on earth and that’s like you said “all time/all generations” that’s gods promise nobody is denying that

But today we all (Jew and non Jews) are under one religion if you believe in 1 God and the Messiah who it’s said Through him coming Gods kingdom will always rule on earth. whether Jews are prospering in their land with their temple as it was in the past when this happens is irrelevant.

God is still winning/ruling, through Jesus Christ and those who accept him.

Jesus was crucified and died for sins and all that stuff, but also as the Messiah his main original role was to rule. And he said a lot about how he brought the arrival of Gods “kingdom” on earth that would grow and rule despite not being visible. You should read some of these parables.

If you Jews would believe in this you’d already be back part of the kingdom God promised instead of waiting to see it happen on earth like it did in the Old Testament.

 

[MMS]

Iusaaset - Wikipedia

Iah Hu Saas (et implies feminine form)

Iah - Wikipedia

Hu (mythology) - Wikipedia

Sia (god) - Wikipedia

Jews refer to the messiah as Yahusha

 

[MMS]

You starting to lose credibility now.

But I can respect a good troll

Honestly we ain’t even having the same discussion anymore and you didn’t address half of what I wrote. I can debate religion all day but you’re too deep in love with ancient Egyptian mysteries.

If you’re really that knowledgeable about Egypt Just tell me how they built the pyramids and you win.

Khufu built them as a monument to God which were commissioned before him by his fathers father Huni

Huni - Wikipedia


Khufu - Wikipedia

his actual name using my same method means:

Hwj f wj

The Word Protects Me note the size of his statuettes (notoriously small and humble) compared to the pyramids and their links to Orion (why Orion is a mystery)

Sah (god) - Wikipedia

Sopdet - Wikipedia