The Little Known Biblical Curse of Egypt by Isaiah

[MMS]

It’s one thing to study religions or go to church and another to actually have faith and believe in something greater.

Concerning religion, It’s sounds like you’re always on the outside looking in.

If you (or anybody) can’t understand or contemplate God for yourself then maybe you’re lost or thinking too hard.

But nobody can make you see things how they see it

that's a deceptive statement How do you decide what is God? The rationale of accept or reject style of thinking = Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil metaphorically. It leads nowhere but I'm not going to go into it heavily.

Dissecting and determining "true" Religion is only a thing because of the presence of nations. People created the concept of the nation before they needed the concept of religion (both arise from the same problem if you look closely). I don't look at any particular religion as an absolute reflection of God...one of my key beliefs. Rather its a result of there being polarity in the world regarding what is and what isn't regarding spiritual wholeness. Due to the language barrier, the concept of God is a constantly changing thing depending on who you ask.

If you heard this without seeing imagery, would you recognize it as Christian? I wouldn't


Soldiers in the middle east have plenty of stories of finding out they killed Christians in Iraq and Syria believing them Muslims much to many people's surprise (never reported in the news). In fact, they are still being persecuted as we speak in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Armenia, and Syria (The Church of the East). The Armenian Genocide was 99% Christian. The Nazi's and Communists imprisoned Orthodox Christians just as they imprisoned Jews. The Fatimids, Ayyubid, and Umayyad Muslims were not responsible for genocides but rather Seljuk/Ottoman Turks (white muslims who are still present in the Balkans today). Catholics used the crimes of turks to justify crusades against the muslim caliphs. Also important to note in history

 

[DoubleClutch]

that's a deceptive statement How do you decide what is God? The rationale of accept or reject style of thinking = Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil metaphorically. It leads nowhere but I'm not going to go into it heavily.

Dissecting and determining "true" Religion is only a thing because of the presence of nations. People created the concept of the nation before they needed the concept of religion (both arise from the same problem if you look closely). I don't look at any particular religion as an absolute reflection of God...one of my key beliefs. Rather its a result of there being polarity in the world regarding what is and what isn't regarding spiritual wholeness. Due to the language barrier, the concept of God is a constantly changing thing depending on who you ask.

If you heard this without seeing imagery, would you recognize it as Christian? I wouldn't


Soldiers in the middle east have plenty of stories of finding out they killed Christians in Iraq and Syria believing them Muslims much to many people's surprise (never reported in the news). In fact, they are still being persecuted as we speak in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Armenia, and Syria (The Church of the East). The Armenian Genocide was 99% Christian. The Nazi's and Communists imprisoned Orthodox Christians just as they imprisoned Jews. The Fatimids, Ayyubid, and Umayyad Muslims were not responsible for genocides but rather Seljuk/Ottoman Turks (white muslims who are still present in the Balkans today). Catholics used the crimes of turks to justify crusades against the muslim caliphs. Also important to note in history

In the Bible God chose people to reveal himself to.

Or you can look at Jesus as an more relatable example. He seemed to have a pretty concrete conception of God.

You can choose which God to believe in. Or you can rationalize a way to believe in them all, which basically makes you agnostic/polytheistic .

 

[MMS]

In the Bible God chose people to reveal himself to.

Or you can look at Jesus as an more relatable example. He seemed to have a pretty concrete conception of God.

You can choose which God to believe in. Or you can rationalize a way to believe in them all, which basically makes you agnostic/polytheistic .

That is 100% correct. That said I dont believe in all religions

I just believe in the one God. One entity. There are probably entities created by God to fulfill things/guide people but I believe vehemently in One God.

There is no need to "believe in them all" when monotheism is one uncreated God. You can reach this conclusion from a variety of angles. What differs imo is how said religions describe what god isn't. Thus my fascination with the parallels in Egypt.

This is why Jews have overlap with Brahminists in India. At the end of the day, everyones descendants received the Noahide laws. That is the universal link not necessarily the Mosaic law.

 

[DoubleClutch]

That is 100% correct. That said I dont believe in all religions

I just believe in the one God. One entity. There are probably entities created by God to fulfill things/guide people but I believe vehemently in One God.

There is no need to "believe in them all" when monotheism is one uncreated God. You can reach this conclusion from a variety of angles. What differs imo is how said religions describe what god isn't. Thus my fascination with the parallels in Egypt.

This is why Jews have overlap with Brahminists in India. At the end of the day, everyones descendants received the Noahide laws. That is the universal link not necessarily the Mosaic law.

Ok so you believe in the 1 god of the Abraham from the Bible. And if you do then you also believe in Jesus as the messiah and son of God.

If not you are either Jewish or maybe Muslim.

You could’ve just said that from the beginning

Egypt is fascinating because they are the antithesis of what God of the Bible is. Perfect example to show what God isn’t. Or even what God was against.

But these parallels can confuse you.

For example,

Jesus from the Bible has parallels with religious many figures throughout history

Even the Jesus in the Bible has “parallels” with “ISA” in the Quran but they are obviously not the same person.

What is the purpose of looking into all these parallels? Just to fuel for your curiosity? Or increase your knowledge? What questions are you looking to answer?

 

[MMS]

Ok so you believe in the 1 god of the Abraham from the Bible. And if you do then you also believe in Jesus as the messiah and son of God.

If not you are either Jewish or maybe Muslim.

You could’ve just said that from the beginning

Egypt is fascinating because they are the antithesis of what God of the Bible is. Perfect example to show what God isn’t. Or even what God was against.

But these parallels can confuse you.

For example,

Jesus from the Bible has parallels with religious many figures throughout history

Even the Jesus in the Bible has “parallels” with “ISA” in the Quran but they are obviously not the same person.

What is the purpose of looking into all these parallels? Just to fuel for your curiosity? Or increase your knowledge? What questions are you looking to answer?

I'm not so sure about that. Egypt has always been explained via the Ptolemaic train of thought (Greek pagan) as opposed to the original Pharaohs beliefs.

Most of the "God" names are actually just descriptors more so than they are formal names. It changes the way the texts/hieroglyphs read. Back on thread topic much of Genesis is parallel with stories from the Temple of Khnum (Elephantine) and Temple of Ptah (Memphis). Many of the Psalms are almost identical to various Hymns to Amun/Atum/Aten

It's just out of curiosity after looking into Isaiah. I noticed that there are MULTIPLE origin stories in Egypt depending on which cult center there is basically. From afar it looks like 1000s of deities when in actuality they arent deities at all.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I'm not so sure about that. Egypt has always been explained via the Ptolemaic train of thought (Greek pagan) as opposed to the original Pharaohs beliefs.

Most of the "God" names are actually just descriptors more so than they are formal names. It changes the way the texts/hieroglyphs read. Back on thread topic much of Genesis is parallel with stories from the Temple of Khnum (Elephantine) and Temple of Ptah (Memphis). Many of the Psalms are almost identical to various Hymns to Amun/Atum/Aten

It's just out of curiosity after looking into Isaiah. I noticed that there are MULTIPLE origin stories in Egypt depending on which cult center there is basically. From afar it looks like 1000s of deities when in actuality they arent deities at all.

Ok so you’re saying Judaism is a cover for ancient Egyptian religion

And The Egyptian God is the same god of the Bible?

 

[MMS]

Ok so you’re saying Judaism is a cover for ancient Egyptian religion

And The Egyptian God is the same god of the Bible?

Its plausible given that N-T-R are the hieroglyphs that corresponds to the hebrew concept of Elohim (plural). They also use this term to describe "God" who mediated in the stories of Horus and Set among many other stories. The earliest concept of "God" outright for Egyptians was the Mother Goddess Neith (N-T)

the hieroglyphs for well-known deities are actually just descriptors, not actual names

(y)Amun = Hidden
Re = Light
Heru = King

In ancient times, they would pray to "God" for what they lacked or needed via the temples that sprang up. Religion was owned by the Priests and the ruling class in that time period. So ultimately the rise of the use of Idols became common practice and lucrative.

There were Phoenician colonies at Sais and Avaris that introduced the Canaanite concept of polytheism. It may have not changed outright until the times of Amenhotep III (whom is argued to be the actual biblical Solomon in some spaces).

NOTE - I am not saying that any particular temple had it right but rather that what happened with Moses may have in all actuality been the first major Egyptian religious schism in recorded history. Rather than the "birth" of monotheism. Common people could not complain or protest like we do now so it took divine intervention

 

[DoubleClutch]

Its plausible given that N-T-R are the hieroglyphs that corresponds to the hebrew concept of Elohim (plural). They also use this term to describe "God" who mediated in the stories of Horus and Set among many other stories. The earliest concept of "God" outright for Egyptians was the Mother Goddess Neith (N-T)

the hieroglyphs for well-known deities are actually just descriptors, not actual names

(y)Amun = Hidden
Re = Light
Heru = King

In ancient times, they would pray to "God" for what they lacked or needed via the temples that sprang up. Religion was owned by the Priests and the ruling class in that time period. So ultimately the rise of the use of Idols became common practice and lucrative.

There were Phoenician colonies at Sais and Avaris that introduced the Canaanite concept of polytheism. It may have not changed outright until the times of Amenhotep III (whom is argued to be the actual biblical Solomon in some spaces).

NOTE - I am not saying that any particular temple had it right but rather that what happened with Moses may have in all actuality been the first major Egyptian religious schism in recorded history. Rather than the "birth" of monotheism. Common people could not complain or protest like we do now so it took divine intervention

You know there’s a long history and a lot of things that happen in the Bible before Egypt or Moses even come into the picture.

You talk like monotheistic religion begins in Egypt.

Egypt isn’t the central theme or location of the early Bible stories. It’s just the setting for one of the most popular ones. And it’s important for that exact reason we’re debating this:

Hebrew Israelites aren’t the same as Egyptians. They didn’t believe in the same God. For Jews people the story has more significance that is a reoccurring them of the Bible.

Egypt is just used as an example.

Nonetheless in the Bible God said to Moses “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob”

God doesn’t say “I’m the God of Pharaoh, Isis, Osiris, the sun, moon, etc.....”

The Israelite people from the Bible didn’t “gentrify” ancient Egyptian religion and run with it to later leave Egypt and create the Bible

But that’s exactly what Islam did with Judaism and Jesus though

You can reinterpret ancient Egyptian religion all you want

but even if ancient Egyptian religion originally was monotheistic and worshiped 1 God (how you claim to see it), anyone with common sense can look at the hieroglyphs and see their lifestyle and religion reflect a people and culture that couldn’t be further from what is shown in the Bible, or taught in Judaism and later by Jesus.

One the main messages and themes of the stories in the bible is that although the Hebrew people lived around many different peoples & cultures, were conquered by them, and even mixed with them, they were to never
Worship their Gods or assimilate and live like them because if they did they’d forfeit Gods promise.

What your saying attempts to undermine all this. Correct me if I’m wrong?

 

[MMS]

You know there’s a long history and a lot of things that happen in the Bible before Egypt or Moses even come into the picture.

You talk like monotheistic religion begins in Egypt.

Egypt isn’t the central theme or location of the early Bible stories. It’s just the setting for one of the most popular ones. And it’s important for that exact reason we’re debating this:

Hebrew Israelites aren’t the same as Egyptians. They didn’t believe in the same God. For Jews people the story has more significance that is a reoccurring them of the Bible.

Egypt is just used as an example.

Nonetheless in the Bible God said to Moses “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob”

God doesn’t say “I’m the God of Pharaoh, Isis, Osiris, the sun, moon, etc.....”

The Israelite people from the Bible didn’t “gentrify” ancient Egyptian religion and run with it to later leave Egypt and create the Bible

But that’s exactly what Islam did with Judaism and Jesus though

You can reinterpret ancient Egyptian religion all you want

but even if ancient Egyptian religion originally was monotheistic and worshiped 1 God (how you claim to see it), anyone with common sense can look at the hieroglyphs and see their lifestyle and religion reflect a people and culture that couldn’t be further from what is shown in the Bible, or taught in Judaism and later by Jesus.

One the main messages and themes of the stories in the bible is that although the Hebrew people lived around many different peoples & cultures, were conquered by them, and even mixed with them, they were to never
Worship their Gods or assimilate and live like them because if they did they’d forfeit Gods promise.

What your saying attempts to undermine all this. Correct me if I’m wrong?

I think the issue is that we are told about Egypt is as if it was always a unified homogenous kingdom when it may not have been (if ever).

furthermore what we see now may not have always been there (Egypt has dynasties extending from 3000-500 BC before the fall to the Babylonians/Persians/Greeks)

if you look at their history, several different dynasties had different cult practices. It is difficult to see because of Ptolemaic egypt and the extreme Isis worship that occurred under their rule (Greeks would actually pilgrimage to the temple of Isis at Philae during that time)

and while you say that Islam used Judaism...it might be the other way around. The "Hebrew" Masoretic texts used today was transliterated from Koine Greek texts into Arabic and THEN into Hebrew

you speak of Egyptian lifestyle as if its foreign but it is actually Egyptians who taught Canaanites circumcision as well as the astrological feasts still being used today. It's important to take the "Egyptian" lifestyle as portrayed by movies with a grain of salt given the white washing.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I think the issue is that we are told about Egypt is as if it was always a unified homogenous kingdom when it may not have been (if ever).

furthermore what we see now may not have always been there (Egypt has dynasties extending from 3000-500 BC before the fall to the Babylonians/Persians/Greeks)

if you look at their history, several different dynasties had different cult practices. It is difficult to see because of Ptolemaic egypt and the extreme Isis worship that occurred under their rule (Greeks would actually pilgrimage to the temple of Isis at Philae during that time)

and while you say that Islam used Judaism...it might be the other way around. The "Hebrew" Masoretic texts used today was transliterated from Koine Greek texts into Arabic and THEN into Hebrew

you speak of Egyptian lifestyle as if its foreign but it is actually Egyptians who taught Canaanites circumcision as well as the astrological feasts still being used today. It's important to take the "Egyptian" lifestyle as portrayed by movies with a grain of salt given the white washing.

You starting to lose credibility now.

But I can respect a good troll

Honestly we ain’t even having the same discussion anymore and you didn’t address half of what I wrote. I can debate religion all day but you’re too deep in love with ancient Egyptian mysteries.

If you’re really that knowledgeable about Egypt Just tell me how they built the pyramids and you win.

 

[MMS]

You starting to lose credibility now.

But I can respect a good troll

Honestly we ain’t even having the same discussion anymore and you didn’t address half of what I wrote. I can debate religion all day but you’re too deep in love with ancient Egyptian mysteries.

If you’re really that knowledgeable about Egypt Just tell me how they built the pyramids and you win.

I dont know what you're asking or insinuating you know about Egypt

it had city states similar to Greece IE the entire country did not have unified beliefs

Hebrew like any other language, used to have multiple dialects. Some are dead.

It may sound like bullshyt to you...but i would urge you to discover the origin of each biblical text before you accuse
Masoretic Text - Wikipedia

Masoretes - Wikipedia

diagram of Biblical sources for reference (MT = Masoretic Text)

 

[DoubleClutch]

I dont know what you're asking or insinuating you know about Egypt

it had city states similar to Greece IE the entire country did not have unified beliefs

Hebrew like any other language, used to have multiple dialects. Some are dead.

It may sound like bullshyt to you...but i would urge you to discover the origin of each biblical text before you accuse
Masoretic Text - Wikipedia

Masoretes - Wikipedia

diagram of Biblical sources for reference (MT = Masoretic Text)

Everything besides the bold is irrelevant

I’m still focusing on your last post where you say Islam and Arab/language and culture influenced Judaism and Christianity

Like I said why is it that every religion (except Judaism)

Has tried to hijack Christianity with their own “Jesus figures” that they gentrified for their culture and religious beliefs whether it be from past or future events

Read this

Why is the figure Issa mistaken for Jesus in the Quran?

Ironically you were trying to do the exact same thing by insinuating ancient Egyptian religion was the original monotheistic religion that Hebrew/Israelite adopted and later influenced the writers who created the Bible.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t wanna put words in your mouth.

After that. I have a simple question I hope you can answer based on you Egyptian knowledge.

I just wanna know why ancient Egyptians built pyramids, how they built them and what they were used for.

 

[MMS]

Ironically you were trying to do the exact same thing by insinuating ancient Egyptian religion was the original monotheistic religion that Hebrew/Israelite adopted and later influenced the writers who created the Bible.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t wanna put words in your mouth.

After that. I have a simple question I hope you can answer based on you Egyptian knowledge.

I just wanna know why ancient Egyptians built pyramids, how they built them and what they were used for.

You're asking me something that I can't answer completely.

As far as use..they work as a seasonal clock. The Sphinx is oriented to align with Constellation Leo every so many cycles

its hard to know really

regarding them being the first place of monotheism...like I said you have to view Egyptian history from the perspective of the cult centers. Not all believed the same things. Evidence of this can be found earlier in this thread

At that time period writing was a luxury. Priests owned the process entirely. This lead to the cult centers with different origin stories. This was an early business for the priestly class of people. Through war a handful of major centers became dominant (Thebes, Memphis, Heliopolis, Abydos, Sais, Avaris)

All of them are slightly different, and depending on who was Pharoah had differing beliefs. While the language you see and images depicted appear to be literal they are mostly symbolic

The Ptolemies/Alexander brought the Osiris Cult (Dionysus Cult) to Egypt and co-opted the story. Quietly Egyptologists make no mention of the fact Greek's pilgrimaged to Egypt during the time of the Ptolemies. This did not occur beforehand. Isis wasnt originally even associated with Osiris but with Min (pause)

Reading the stories now, it would appear that "Lower Egypt" in the Nile Delta had competition over time with Phoenician sea traders who founded Avaris and Sais. Both of those places have vastly different interpretations on deities than Thebes/Memphis at the time. This makes sense given that the Phoenicians were Canaanites and thusly were the original pagans.

 

[Koichos]

I recognized in my own study that to be Jewish is paradoxical when looking at Jesus or any other Messianic figure...the true law of the OT clearly states what it states

All the laws are found in the Torah, the first five books. The messianic prophecies are found primarily in the Neviyim and, to a lesser extent, the Kesuvim. TeNaKh is Torah, Neviyim and Kesuvim. We have these specific books because they have lessons for us. Either the Torah because of its laws; or the stories in Neviyim and Kesuvim because of the lessons they teach or the prophetic works they provide. In every case it is things that are necessary for us to know now.

Jesus and maybe Krishna are the only historical religious figures that have ever been claimed as sinless and true aspects of the divine.

We have a tradition of four who did not sin: Yishai the father of Dovid, Amrom the father of Moshe, Binyomin the son of Yaakov, Kilav the son of Dovid.

It is worth noting that Binyomin has a special attribute to him as he was the only son of Yaakov who did not bow down to Eisuv. When Yaakov returns from the house of Lavan with his maidservants and his wives Leah and Rochel and their children, they encounter Eisuv and his horde. Yaakov and his entire family prostrate themselves before Eisuv (B'raishis 33:1-7). This was true of all the children of Yaakov, except for one: Binyomin. Binyomin was yet to be born. Binyomin never did and never would prostrate himself before Eisuv. We know from the story of Purim in Magilas Esther that Binyomin is מרדכי היהודי (Mordechai the Jew). Mordechai was from the tribe of Binyomin, a direct paternal descendant of Binyomin by way of Shaul. In Esther 3:2 we see that Mordechai (Binyomin) refused to prostrate before Haman (Eisuv). And we know from Esther 3:1 and Shmuel A 15:32 that Haman was a direct descendant of Amaleik, the grandson of Eisuv (B'raishis 36:12).

Actually, the whole story of Purim, of Mordechai and Esther, is to fix the mistake that Shaul Hamelech made. Shaul did not carry out his mitzva of eradicating Amaleik. Instead, he spared the king. Mordechai and Esther are descendants of Shaul (who is a descendant of Binyomin), and Haman is a descendant of Agag (who is a descendant of Eisuv). So Mordechai and Esther are responsible for rectifying the failing of Shaul vis-à-vis Agag. So Shaul vis-à-vis Agag was rectified by Mordechai and Esther orchestrating the downfall of Haman and the destruction of Amaleik. It's a tikkun, a rectification.

 

[Koichos]

yet at the same time you cant look at the world completely and utterly from one culture's lens. ..for example: In India reincarnation is the prevailing belief. This profoundly changes the way they see religion and God (Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva etc)

That's the key context that makes it hard to interpret their views. You have to fully accept that concept before their stories make any sense

At the same time I have no idea if their "yugas" are true at all only thing I know is Vedic texts technically predate Jewish texts by a great deal largely due to the fact India has never really been conquered...

by that same notion, the ancient religion of the Chinese should also predate as well (upheld by old chinese emperors going back to Shang dynasty)

This is why Jews have overlap with Brahminists in India.

The Torah was committed to writing in the generation of Moshe Rabeinu, who was the 26th generation from Odom Harishoin (26, corresponding to the numerical value of Hashem's Name, י-ה-ו-ה), but it was long before "..בראשית ברא אלקים את השמים ואת הארץ" (B'raishis 1:1). The people in the East, the Buddhists and the Hindus, for example, those are Avrohom's children from his concubines. Torah says that Avrohom Ovinu sent these children away to ארץ קדם (the land of the east). The philosophy that they have, started as Avrohom's philosophy before Hashem spoke to him. This was all the philosophy that he came up with himself....and then it deteriorated into what it is today, with a million deities. But Hinduism and Buddhism is just an understanding of how life works and what the soul is and so on.