The Little Known Biblical Curse of Egypt by Isaiah

[DoubleClutch]

The conflict between Jews and Arabs is Biblical. It is the conflict between Yitzchok (Jews) and Yishmoel (Arabs).

Palestinian Arabs have an ideology of murder, destruction, extermination, and destroying Klal Yisroel and the Torah. Whatever they can do to support that war effort, they will do. They send their own children to blow themselves up on buses to do this even if it means the death of a single Jew (Itabach al-Yahud). Their civilization is based on blood, death, destruction, and hatred. To wit, here we are four millennia after the fact and still the Yishmoelim cannot help but act like the khayis they were prophesied to be, proving once again the truth of the Torah that one cannot live in peace with those described by Hashem as 'pir'e odom', as it is written: "v'hoo (Yishmoel) yihye pir'e odom yodo vo'kul". Since the Torah is eternal, one can be assured that the Yishmoeli will always be a wild beast of a man.

The syntactic structure of Hebrew, unlike English, dictates that the noun precede the adjective in an adjectival phrase. As for example, in English we say 'great man'. But in Hebrew, we say 'odom godol', with the noun 'odom' (man) preceding the adjective 'godol' (great). First we express the nature of the thing itself (odom) and then add the adjective which serves as a modifier (godol). But when the Tenach describes Yishmoel, the progenitor of the Arabs, as a 'pir'e' odom' (bestial man), the modifier 'pir'e' appears before the noun 'odom'. The wildness is not simply a modifying feature of Bnai Yishmoel. It is the very core of their being. Thus, in the phrase 'pir'e odom' the word 'pir'e' (untamed) is the noun, the nature of the thing itself; and the word 'odom' (man) is the modifier—a beast in the form of a man.

Esoterically, the topic of conflict with the Yishmoelim, the Arabs/Moslems, appears in the Zohar in countless places. The Zohar recounts that because Yishmoel was circumcised—although his circumcision is not perfect for they only circumcise without performing 'pri'oh' (uncovering the flesh under the foreskin)—therefore, the Bnai Yishmoel will receive authority over the land of Israel for a certain amount of time. The Zohar says that when the land will be devoid of its dwellers, they will rule the land of Israel, just as their bris is devoid of substance. 2,000 years ago the Zohar foretold that when we return to our land, we will find Arabs. There were crusaders who tried conquering the land, there were the Byzantines, etc., they all tried to conquer the land. But it was the Moslems, the Arabs, who persisted.



The Israel we encounter today comports perfectly with the Israel we find in Tenach. The kingdom did NOT split into Israel and Judah (nor did Israel and Judah go into golus) because we were keeping the mitzvos; quite the contrary. The kings sunk into a deep morass of idolatry and desecration, particularly the northern kingdom. It was not without rhyme or reason that the kingdom of Israel was called wicked. That much is clear. The Jewish Scriptures records every single wrong doing Klal Yisroel has done as a people. It is a major part of our being labeled Am Keshei Oref (first mentioned in Shmois 32:9 vis-à-vis the sin of the Golden calf). Hashem gave Eretz Yisroel to the Jewish People not because of our righteousness, but in order to fulfill His promise to Avrohom Yitzchok v'Ya'akov (D'vorim 9:5-6).

More than that, there is clear prophecy in a messianic passage of Yechezkel that until Milchemas Goig u'Magoig takes place, Hashem's name in the Land of Israel would be incessantly profaned (Chillul Hashem). There is another prophetic passage from Tzefanyoh that during the messianic era, and in preparation for the third Bais Hamikdosh, Hashem will withdraw from our midst (wipe out) those who exult in their 'pride' (Hebrew: עליזי alizai, גאוה ga'avo). The same two words in which the 'pride' paraders refer to themselves, alizim and ga'avo, are the same two words used here in the original Hebrew text referring to 'pride'. These are the words of Hashem Himself: "Ba'yom ha'hoo loy sevoishi mi'kul aliloteyich asher pashat bi ki az assir mikirbecho alizai ga'avotech v'loy soisifi l'govho oid b'har kodshi."


The Torah states that the nations would be blessed in the Jewish People. From the beginning when Yaakov Ovinu, Yosef Hatzadik and the rest of B'nai Yisroel descended to Egypt, it is clear that wherever the Jews go they are the highlight of the place; for which reason every king (or today, president or prime minister), even in nations in which it has come to expulsions and forced conversions, has a Jew at his side. Every nation that hosts the Jews becomes a powerhouse of a nation regardless of its inevitable antisemitism. As long as Jews live in the America, America will remain a superpower. The Diaspora is most concentrated in the United States, which means whatever happens to Jews in Israel is the concern of Jews in America—and by extension, America. The Jewish People are one organic unit. Regardless of where we are living we have a responsibility for our Jewish family across the globe. As the millennia-old Aramaic adage goes: כל ישראל ערבים זה בזה, "All Jews are responsible one for another"; we are a single entity that share a common destiny and thus are mechiyav in being our brothers' keepers. Hashem protects Israel and chooses who to facilitate that process. It is no accident that He continues to select the nation containing the largest Jewish population outside of Israel. It is all yad Hashem, the hand of G-d.


No, they don't. And no, it isn't. This is a classic case of first shooting the arrow, then drawing the bullseye around it. This is almost as absurd as the Xian claim that the Pesach matzo on the Seder plate foreshadows Yoshke. There are three pieces of matzos that go on a Seder plate. There is matzo 1 (father), matzo 2 (son), matzo 3 (spirit). The middle matzo (son) is the one taken out and turned into the affikoman, the dessert. It is broken in half and hidden, and brought back out for dessert at the end of the meal. Xians say the breaking of matzo 2 (son) represents the crucifixion of Yoshke; the hiding of it in a cloth represents Yoshke being hidden in shrouds when he was buried; bringing the matzo back out represents the resurrection, Yoshke being raised from the dead. They will further point you to the matzo's stripes and holes. The stripes on the matzo represent the stripes on the back of Yoshke when he was whipped, beaten, and scourged by the Romans for our sins; the holes represent the nails in Yoshke's hands and his feet. Therefore we find Yoshke in Pesach.


The Xian idea of the messiah is far closer to the pagan notion of a dying/saving man/god than to the Jewish understanding of Moshiach. There is no basis in Tenach for human sacrifice bearing the sins of mankind. It wholly contradicts the Torah (D'vorim 24:16).


There is no salvation in Yoshke. Hashem alone forgives sin (Yeshayohu 43:25, 55:7; Shmuel B 12:13; Divrei Hayomim B 7:15), and aside from Hashem there is no Savior (Yeshayohu 43:11).


Baptism is but a corrupted version of the mikveh repackaged in Xtological wrap.


Tshuva works for all sin.


Not in Judaism. One can do tshuva without going to the mikveh. And tzadikim are ubiquitous among the frum, all of whom have made aveyros. Also, we only daven five times a day on Yom Kippur.


Davening in Yoshke's name makes him an intermediary which is forbidden for a Jew. Davening to or 'through' Yoshke was not a spiritual experience known to our forefathers at Har Sinai, hence it is against Torah Law (D'vorim 13:7-9). Jews do not require an intercessor when davening. We have a direct line to Hashem through our neshumos alone. In Judaism there is a concept called 'שתוף' (to associate other powers to G-d). A Jew is not permitted to do that (D'vorim 4:15-19, 4:35, 4:39; Voyikroh 22:32). For a gentile, however, as long as he accepts the supremacy of G-d the Al-mighty, if he wants to believe that G-d works through an intercessor, or has some other intermediate powers, there is nothing in the Torah forbidding a gentile to believe that. For a Jew, Xianity is outright idolatry—'שתוף' at best.


The neshuma of the Jew is the highest neshuma in creation, a chailik Elokoh mi'mo'ol momosh no matter how far it falls from Torah observance. Jews have this enigmatic bond with Hashem: He exists for us as much in denial as in acceptance—and in some ways, even more so. There are 7 to 613 covenant connectors with which to elevate our neshumos. Hashem gave the Torah to the Jewish People, and with it, a higher purpose. Jews have a greater vocation in life and thus a necessarily unparalleled connection to the Ribboinoi Shel Oilom—a Divine relationship influenced and necessitated by the additional commandments required of a Jew over a Gentile, and the corresponding ability to actualize those requirements. A Jew's relationship with Hashem is innate and therefore irrespective of his belief in Judaism. It is determined by the nefesh ho'eloiqiss, the unique neshuma of the Jew that is given by Hashem through the Jewish mother. Many of our tefillos are in Aramaic as opposed to Hebrew, for Aramaic is a direct line to Hashem without intervention of malachim.


Both modes of worship, Xian and Moslem, are foreign to the Torah. The difference is the Xian doctrine on the nature of G-d is complete idolatry. The Moslem doctrine on the nature of G-d is not idolatry. However, they indulge in avodo zoro or foreign worship, paganistic rituals foreign to the Torah. For example, ramy al-jamarāt (stoning of the devil) is a foreign mode of worship; and the ritual of tatbir (bloodletting) on Ashura is a pagan practice explicitly forbidden in the Torah (D'vorim 14:1). Accordingly, Jews are forbidden to simply step foot into a Xian church for it is the same as a Hindu temple, a house of idolatry. On the other hand, the Mosque, unlike the church, is not considered a house of idolatry, given the fact that Islam itself is not idolatrous. A Jew is therefore permitted to enter and even daven (strictly Jewish tefllos and customs, of course) in a Mosque. Xianity chews the cud but does not have a cleft hoof (outright idolatry); Islam has a cleft hoof but does not chew the cud (veiled foreign worship). Islam is like the pig who shows his hooves to claim he's kosher.

Right, so same way Islam and Arabs taking over the land while Jews were gone and Christianity spreading and the USA (a “Christian nation”) helping Jews get the the land back is all part of gods plan history/prophecy

When you’re talking about a “kingdom” you agree a Jewish kingdom as it’s supposed to be isn’t happening in Isreal today for obvious reasons even though Jews are there and practicing their religion as you say perhaps same as they did in exile

Contrast that with Jesus ideas of a Kingdom, not physically or seen by the naked eye but spiritual or a kingdom in the process, that he ushered in.

Christianity is a reflection of that, if you believe it. Not just in the world today but also in the “church” or individual people who follow Jesus today.

In the same way you can say USA has been blessed by Christians and the world for example via USA

Of course Jews have succeeded business wise and have power and influence but that’s because of money

Christians Spiritual have impacted the world through USA (even though USA has its major faults and isn’t perfect historically)

But as a people you can’t say Jews contributed anymore to “blessing” lands around the world than say “African Americans” whose diaspora helped build many great nations and are hated and persecuted even more than Jews yet their influence culturally is more widespread and impactful

Just look at the protests going on these days.

Isn’t that kinda how prophecy works. Same thing is happening with the Arabs/Jews today. The events in Jesus time actually happened that’s how it played out, so of course Jewish at the people will recognize it or see it from that point of view. Also it just makes sense.

What pagan culture requires a man dying for the sins of the world?

Like I said Jesus isn’t a pagan sacrifice. That’s how you chose to see it.

Also how is it that the Muslims who as you say are less pagan in their beliefs deny Jesus dying on the cross just to take that “sacrificial” element from his identity. Why couldn’t he have just simply died like a regular man or prophet Islam claims him to be?

Nonetheless Jesus symbolic death (burial/resurrection) is a concept you need to understand for yourself

I never saw it as a pagan sacrifice until you introduced it that way

But if Jesus said God sent him to ultimately get crucified and die “not by my will”

And you believe in the same God of Jesus, then you have a contradiction

God sent Jesus as part of his plan to forgive sins in a way never before imagined but also to fulfill what was already happening and to come

Jesus also said to a woman her sins is forgiven. He had that authority according to the Bible. You can make of that what you want. It’s what is written.

Baptism is a concept yea I guess it comes from Jewish religion and also just symbolic of cleansing/rebirth, etc.... anyone would understand religious or not.

But the idea of a new spirit is what Jesus taught. What does the Jewish teachings say about concepts of “renewing spirit” or being “born again”? This is what Jesus refers to when he talks about “living water”.

Repent is for all sin yes. That must come first. It’s like apologizing without really having admitting anything wrong.

But unintentional sin as you say I’m guessing just comes with being human and everyone needs that forgiveness no amount of works can make up for that. Jesus said “no man is Good” to paraphrase.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Picking up off last post.....

Praying “in Jesus name” is just how Christians are taught since the beginning. I guess Jesus started it.

Jesus said “ask anything in my name” and also “nobody comes to the father except through me” to paraphrase

I assume many Christians still pray to God the same (depends on personal preference). But Maybe like you say:
Christians don’t have that “direct connection” the Israelites had back in the Old Testament

Ok so how can God even know who’s praying to him today.

His “chosen people” are scattered all over the world

There is no Kingdom like you say that God is ruling over.

Simply Praying to “God” today could mean many Gods or any “God” from any religion without distinction or name.

For example “Allah” just means God in translation. It doesn’t signify “which god”.

But Muslims know what they believe in

Praying in Jesus name is just more specific or “on the nose” for Christians regardless of what they believe inside.

If God (God of the Torah) knows what you believe then I personally don’t think it’s a major issue.

If a Christian believes in Jesus as the “son of God”, then God automatically should be listening to them the same way he listened to the prophets of the Torah.

Just think when Jesus followers/believers asked him to do miracles, they also had to believe in God first

and second: that Jesus was sent by God before even asking Jesus for any help.

No Jew who saw Jesus as a liar or “law breaker” or “blasphemer” would ask him to heal them, for example.

God using an “intercessor” is just a way to think and make sense of it all. I wouldn’t take it literally

It’s hard enough to understand and explain the Jesus/God son/father dynamic

But I’m the Old Testament Bible stories used God used Noah and other prophets, angels, “spirit of the LORD” etc to bridge that gap. And there were also priests for the people. Isn’t that considered a intermediate or middle man?

All I’m saying is through Jesus everyone can get that direct relationship/connection that gods chosen people have had but now for modern times and this current “kingdom” on earth

Back in bible times Israelites had their kingdom and God was basically with them as a fact

Now everyone has to believe. Looking at the way the world is today it’s hard to still believe in Gods rule on the earth unless you believe in Jesus

If not, you are essentially waiting for the Messiah (Jesus) to come back

And thats exactly the same position Jews were in 2000 years ago before Jesus came

If you see Christianity as idolatry then it would have to be based off your views of Jesus not what you see Christians doing today.

The “Christian church” is not a physical place or a “holy place” per say like a mosque in Islam or temple in Judaism. I wouldn’t wanna step in certain Church buildings either. I don’t blame you.

 

[Koichos]

When you’re talking about a “kingdom” you agree a Jewish kingdom as it’s supposed to be isn’t happening in Isreal today for obvious reasons even though Jews are there and practicing their religion as you say perhaps same as they did in exile

The sacrificial system and Torah Law will be reestablished only when Moshiach comes. This is also when the Bais Hamikdosh will be rebuilt to stand forevermore. Until then, we see from various prophets the extent of transgression that would take place in Eretz Yisroel.

Contrast that with Jesus ideas of a Kingdom, not physically or seen by the naked eye but spiritual or a kingdom in the process, that he ushered in.

The world has never seen so much warfare, bloodshed, suffering, disease, confusion, and inhumanity, SINCE the coming of Yoshke, and very much if not most unfortunately, IN his name.

But as a people you can’t say Jews contributed anymore to “blessing” lands around the world than say “African Americans” whose diaspora helped build many great nations and are hated and persecuted even more than Jews yet their influence culturally is more widespread and impactful

Jews have contributed more to the world than ANY other nation, and it is not even close (anthropology, biology, chemistry, economics, linguistics, literature, mathematics, medicine, music, philosophy, physics, psychology, sociology, technology). As for Israel, no country in the history of the world has ever done more for humanity in 72 years, than the state of Israel: nobody has contributed more to the health of the world, to the environmental concerns of the world, and to the technological and medical advancement of the world. Israelis, Jews, have contributed to the betterment of humanity the world over. In regard to religion, the majority of the world follows an Abrahamic religion because of us. The Torah has been the Jewish People's most notable and influential contribution to human civilization, one that is presently influencing roughly 4.4 billion people. Normalities do not apply to Klal Yisroel. One need only look at history: the Jewish People have defied all of its laws as ordained by Hashem in the Torah. No amount of genocide has ever truncated our role; quite the opposite. Just as we see from the days of yore with the Jews' persecution in Mitzroyim, affliction only unites the klal and encourages us as a nation to augment and recommence our vocation. As the Torah says: ka'asher y'anu oso kain yirbe v'chain yifruts (Shmos 1:12).

The Jewish People have endured more than any other nation. The Torahs, statutes, and mitzvos that were dictated to Moshe Rabeinu at Har Sinai are what has kept the Jewish People as a nation despite the fact that we have been spread all over to the four corners of the earth for countless centuries with little to no contact. No other group of people have been so dispersed, yet managed to remain so entire. The Jewish People are more of a nation than any other nation one can point to on this planet; a people who can demonstrate a continuous and historically viable existence as a nation for 3,800 years, with its own laws, language, literature, and history. There is no nation still around from the time the Jewish People came into being. And not only is there no nation that is still around since that time, but there is no nation that went through everything that the Jewish People went through–and that every nation who has conspired to destroy us, has perished. And yet we continue not only to survive, but thrive. Just the fact that a Jewish person walks this earth today is a testimony to the Living G-d. Just like the RBS"O is Hanitzchi (Hashem is Eternal), every Jew is imbued with this eternality. Just as Hashem is eternal the Jewish People are eternal. Many have tried to lay waste to Israel, but our unique vocation in history is unremitting.

Ancient Egyptians...Gone
Assyrians...Gone
Babylonians...Gone
Seleucids...Gone
Greeks...Gone
Romans...Gone
Spanish monarchy...Gone
Nazi Germany...Gone

And yes, the Bais Hamikdosh is gone (temporarily), which allowed Judaism to spread out all over the world, giving "chossidei u'mois ho'oilom", righteous gentiles, the chance to convert and join the Jewish People, just as Hashem wanted (Hoshea 2:25).

Just look at the protests going on these days.

People were able to come together through the likes of telecommunications.

What pagan culture requires a man dying for the sins of the world?

Like I said Jesus isn’t a pagan sacrifice. That’s how you chose to see it.

That's a straw man. The point is not that Yoshke himself was a pagan sacrifice, or that he was a carbon copy of an individual in historical paganism. Rather, the concept of a dying/saving man/god who resurrects is clearly paganistic in nature (Bacchus, Zamolxis, Romulus-Quirinus, Adonis). That Moshiach ben Dovid should die and resurrect has no basis in Tenach.

But if Jesus said God sent him to ultimately get crucified and die “not by my will”

And you believe in the same God of Jesus, then you have a contradiction

Yoshke is the one inconsistent with Tenach. Hashem makes it clear that aside from Him there is "no Savior" (Yeshayohu 43:11, 45:21; Hoshea 13:4). Hashem has no physical form (D'vorim 4:15), and He is "not a man" (Shmuel A 15:29, Hoshea 11:9) "nor a son of man" (B'midbor 23:19) in whom there is "no salvation" (T'hilim 146:3). He has no body, nor power of the body; if He were to be a body then He would be like any other body and would not be Hashem. Torah explicitly states that Hashem is incorporeal, He is One (Dovorim 6:4, from which the Shema—the flagship statement of Jewish monotheistic faith—is derived). For something to exist physically, it necessarily follows that there can be two or more of it. By saying Hashem is One, we are denying that there is any multiplicity of Him. According to Torah, G-d is Infinite, everywhere at all times. Thus says Dovid Hamelech: "Where can I escape from Your spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; if I descend to the netherworld, behold, You are there." According to the Xian bible, Yoshke is not in the tomb. Since he is not in the tomb he is not everywhere. Since he is not everywhere he is not G-d. The triune godhead is a later Xian invention which wholly contradicts Tenach. And the basis for the "holy spirit" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew.

Baptism is a concept yea I guess it comes from Jewish religion and also just symbolic of cleansing/rebirth, etc.... anyone would understand religious or not.

But the idea of a new spirit is what Jesus taught. What does the Jewish teachings say about concepts of “renewing spirit” or being “born again”? This is what Jesus refers to when he talks about “living water”.

The concept of being 'born again' is uniquely Jewish, established through the process of gairus or conversion. When a gentile converts, he or she completes the process by immersing in a mikveh of 40 seah (a biblical measure of water which makes the mikveh kosher). Converts receive a neshumas Yisroel, a Jewish neshuma. Gair sh'nisgaiyer k'kuton sh'noilad domei ("One who converts is like a newborn child"). It's a clean slate. He or she is now 100% Jewish, and the lineage begins from that point on. For this reason, gairim are not halochically related to their biological "relatives". This means that, under Torah Law, a geir is not obligated to fulfill Jewish laws such as 'kibud av v'aim' (honoring one's parents; they now fall under respecting one's elders) or 'sitting shiv'a' (the seven-day mourning period in Judaism for relatives) on behalf of their non-Jewish "family" members; gairim are no longer related whatsoever to their non-Jewish "relatives". Instead, they are considered to be the spiritual descendants of Avrohom Oveenu and Sorah Imeinu, Avrohom being the very first convert. Accordingly, on Halochic documents a male convert (gair) will be noted as Ploni ben Avrohom Oveenu, and a female convert (gioress) as Plonis bas Avrohom Oveenu; so-and-so son of Our Father Abraham, and so-and-so daughter of Our Father Abraham. The soul they receive is a Jewish soul, with a Jewish heritage, with a Jewish background, with Jewish memory—it's a complete Jew. When someone converts to Judaism, they become a Jewish person, not a Jewish believer—this is what sunders Judaism from the rest.

 

[Koichos]

Ok so how can God even know who’s praying to him today.

His “chosen people” are scattered all over the world

Hashem is incorporeal, He has no limitations.

There is no Kingdom like you say that God is ruling over.

Simply Praying to “God” today could mean many Gods or any “God” from any religion without distinction or name.

Frum Jews daven in Hebrew, not English. We don't pray to 'G-d', we pray to י-ה-ו-ה. Aside from kadish and a few others, all the Jewish tefillos (prayers) and brochos (blessings) are composed and recited in Hebrew.

But I’m the Old Testament Bible stories used God used Noah and other prophets, angels, “spirit of the LORD” etc to bridge that gap. And there were also priests for the people. Isn’t that considered a intermediate or middle man?

They were not intercessors through whom Jews prayed. The prophets especially, were sent on behalf of Hashem to instruct Klal Yisroel to do what was best for them. One of the more peculiar elements that so often characterizes Tenach, and confuses the missionaries, is that her neviyim had almost nothing complimentary to say about the Jewish People. Indeed, the Jewish Scriptures are replete with examples of prophetic castigation of Israel. However, even when the neviyim criticized the Jewish People, it was not for a complete lack of observance. Accordingly, every chance the neviyim had to criticize the nation they took, and embraced it. The neviyim had no interest in telling the Jewish People what they were doing right—for simply adulating Klal Yisroel would in no way improve them. We see the importance of this admonishment from the many verses in Mishley on this matter. For example, Mishley 3:11-12 states: "My son, despise not the discipline of Hashem, and do not abhor His chastening, for Hashem chastens the one He loves, as a father placates a son".

Time after time, Hashem sent His neviyim to instruct the Jewish People to return from those avayros they had done, just as a father does his son.

"Yet He sent prophets among them to bring them back to Him; they (the prophets) admonished them but they (Israel) would not pay heed." (Divrei Hayomim B 24:19)

"Yet Hashem warned Israel and Judah by every prophet and every seer, saying: `Turn back from your evil ways and keep My commandments...'" (M'lochim B 17:13)

"Yet I sent to you all My servants the prophets, sending them often, saying: `Now do not do this abominable thing which I hate.'" (Yirmeyohu 44:4)

"The former prophets called, saying: `Thus said Hashem Tzvokos: "Return now from your evil ways and your evil deeds."'" (Zecharyoh 1:4)​

And there were also priests for the people.

Kohanim never went anywhere. Any kosher shul you attend will have a kohein or two. There is still a role for the kohanim without the Bais Hamikdosh (certain tefillos specific to the kohein, like duchaning). And even in shul, the kohein gets first aliya. A kohein still cannot marry a convert, nor can he attend the levaya or funeral of anyone outside of his immediate family (mother, father, son, daughter, brother, virgin (unmarried) sister); for he is only allowed to contract tum'ah for such relatives (not even his grandparents) (see Voyikro 21:1-3). Perhaps the greatest message that Hashem sent by his prophets were the messianic passages in Yirmeyohu 33:14-26, relaying that the two families which He chose (Judah, from whom Moshiach comes) (Levi, from whom the Kohanim come) would never be cut off. The reason the Leviyim (and especially the Kohanim) are such a small population is because the Leviyim were not subject to servitude in Mitzroyim. Because of this, they didn't get the blessing of Pru u'Rvu—which looks like a curse in the Torah, but it's really a blessing.

In the hakdomo to Be'er HaGolah, the Mahara"l explains that the most intense kedushoh is always expressed in the smallest, or most condensed, manifestation in this world. Thus, the smaller the area of the mikdosh, the greater its level of kedushoh. So too, the Jewish People, as the holy nation, maintain the smallest manifestation in this world. If you look at Hashem's counting of the Jews in Mitzroyim–those who were subject to servitude–every tribe has tens of thousands. But the Leviyim are only a few thousand. The Leviyim are the smallest family within the Jewish People. And the Kohanim are but a small subgroup of the Leviyim, accounting for a mere fraction of Israel as a whole. Am Yisroel is a 3-fold nation (Yisroelim, Leviyim, Kohanim). Hashem refers to the Kohanim as משרתי or 'mesharesay' ("My ministrants"). When the Bais Hamikdosh was standing, י-ה-ו-ה (the holiest Name of Hashem) was uttered only by the Kohein Godol (the holiest man) on Yom Kippur (the holiest day) during and after the recitation of Viduy in the Kodesh Kodashim (the holiest place).

Back in bible times Israelites had their kingdom and God was basically with them as a fact

Now everyone has to believe. Looking at the way the world is today it’s hard to still believe in Gods rule on the earth unless you believe in Jesus

If not, you are essentially waiting for the Messiah (Jesus) to come back

There is no 'com[ing] back' for Moshiach ben Dovid; there is only his coming בב"א. Moshiach ben Dovid never dies and requires resurrection. This is an invention of the Xians in order to explain the unexpected death of Yoshke who they believed to be Moshiach.

 

[DoubleClutch]

The sacrificial system and Torah Law will be reestablished only when Moshiach comes. This is also when the Bais Hamikdosh will be rebuilt to stand forevermore. Until then, we see from various prophets the extent of transgression that would take place in Eretz Yisroel.


The world has never seen so much warfare, bloodshed, suffering, disease, confusion, and inhumanity, SINCE the coming of Yoshke, and very much if not most unfortunately, IN his name.


Jews have contributed more to the world than ANY other nation, and it is not even close (anthropology, biology, chemistry, economics, linguistics, literature, mathematics, medicine, music, philosophy, physics, psychology, sociology, technology). As for Israel, no country in the history of the world has ever done more for humanity in 72 years, than the state of Israel: nobody has contributed more to the health of the world, to the environmental concerns of the world, and to the technological and medical advancement of the world. Israelis, Jews, have contributed to the betterment of humanity the world over. In regard to religion, the majority of the world follows an Abrahamic religion because of us. The Torah has been the Jewish People's most notable and influential contribution to human civilization, one that is presently influencing roughly 4.4 billion people. Normalities do not apply to Klal Yisroel. One need only look at history: the Jewish People have defied all of its laws as ordained by Hashem in the Torah. No amount of genocide has ever truncated our role; quite the opposite. Just as we see from the days of yore with the Jews' persecution in Mitzroyim, affliction only unites the klal and encourages us as a nation to augment and recommence our vocation. As the Torah says: ka'asher y'anu oso kain yirbe v'chain yifruts (Shmos 1:12).

The Jewish People have endured more than any other nation. The Torahs, statutes, and mitzvos that were dictated to Moshe Rabeinu at Har Sinai are what has kept the Jewish People as a nation despite the fact that we have been spread all over to the four corners of the earth for countless centuries with little to no contact. No other group of people have been so dispersed, yet managed to remain so entire. The Jewish People are more of a nation than any other nation one can point to on this planet; a people who can demonstrate a continuous and historically viable existence as a nation for 3,800 years, with its own laws, language, literature, and history. There is no nation still around from the time the Jewish People came into being. And not only is there no nation that is still around since that time, but there is no nation that went through everything that the Jewish People went through–and that every nation who has conspired to destroy us, has perished. And yet we continue not only to survive, but thrive. Just the fact that a Jewish person walks this earth today is a testimony to the Living G-d. Just like the RBS"O is Hanitzchi (Hashem is Eternal), every Jew is imbued with this eternality. Just as Hashem is eternal the Jewish People are eternal. Many have tried to lay waste to Israel, but our unique vocation in history is unremitting.

Ancient Egyptians...Gone
Assyrians...Gone
Babylonians...Gone
Seleucids...Gone
Greeks...Gone
Romans...Gone
Spanish monarchy...Gone
Nazi Germany...Gone

And yes, the Bais Hamikdosh is gone (temporarily), which allowed Judaism to spread out all over the world, giving "chossidei u'mois ho'oilom", righteous gentiles, the chance to convert and join the Jewish People, just as Hashem wanted (Hoshea 2:25).


People were able to come together through the likes of telecommunications.


That's a straw man. The point is not that Yoshke himself was a pagan sacrifice, or that he was a carbon copy of an individual in historical paganism. Rather, the concept of a dying/saving man/god who resurrects is clearly paganistic in nature (Bacchus, Zamolxis, Romulus-Quirinus, Adonis). That Moshiach ben Dovid should die and resurrect has no basis in Tenach.


Yoshke is the one inconsistent with Tenach. Hashem makes it clear that aside from Him there is "no Savior" (Yeshayohu 43:11, 45:21; Hoshea 13:4). Hashem has no physical form (D'vorim 4:15), and He is "not a man" (Shmuel A 15:29, Hoshea 11:9) "nor a son of man" (B'midbor 23:19) in whom there is "no salvation" (T'hilim 146:3). He has no body, nor power of the body; if He were to be a body then He would be like any other body and would not be Hashem. Torah explicitly states that Hashem is incorporeal, He is One (Dovorim 6:4, from which the Shema—the flagship statement of Jewish monotheistic faith—is derived). For something to exist physically, it necessarily follows that there can be two or more of it. By saying Hashem is One, we are denying that there is any multiplicity of Him. According to Torah, G-d is Infinite, everywhere at all times. Thus says Dovid Hamelech: "Where can I escape from Your spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; if I descend to the netherworld, behold, You are there." According to the Xian bible, Yoshke is not in the tomb. Since he is not in the tomb he is not everywhere. Since he is not everywhere he is not G-d. The triune godhead is a later Xian invention which wholly contradicts Tenach. And the basis for the "holy spirit" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew.


The concept of being 'born again' is uniquely Jewish, established through the process of gairus or conversion. When a gentile converts, he or she completes the process by immersing in a mikveh of 40 seah (a biblical measure of water which makes the mikveh kosher). Converts receive a neshumas Yisroel, a Jewish neshuma. Gair sh'nisgaiyer k'kuton sh'noilad domei ("One who converts is like a newborn child"). It's a clean slate. He or she is now 100% Jewish, and the lineage begins from that point on. For this reason, gairim are not halochically related to their biological "relatives". This means that, under Torah Law, a geir is not obligated to fulfill Jewish laws such as 'kibud av v'aim' (honoring one's parents; they now fall under respecting one's elders) or 'sitting shiv'a' (the seven-day mourning period in Judaism for relatives) on behalf of their non-Jewish "family" members; gairim are no longer related whatsoever to their non-Jewish "relatives". Instead, they are considered to be the spiritual descendants of Avrohom Oveenu and Sorah Imeinu, Avrohom being the very first convert. Accordingly, on Halochic documents a male convert (gair) will be noted as Ploni ben Avrohom Oveenu, and a female convert (gioress) as Plonis bas Avrohom Oveenu; so-and-so son of Our Father Abraham, and so-and-so daughter of Our Father Abraham. The soul they receive is a Jewish soul, with a Jewish heritage, with a Jewish background, with Jewish memory—it's a complete Jew. When someone converts to Judaism, they become a Jewish person, not a Jewish believer—this is what sunders Judaism from the rest.

Christians believe when the “messiah” Jesus comes back yes the temple have been rebuilt and the Jewish people will have everything they need to function as it’s intended I guess, but you should read revelation and get all the details

Horrible things have been done by MAN who didn’t live according to the teachings of Jesus and the Bible although they might claim to be Christians or religious

Blaming Christianity for bad things that happened in history in the name of religion is like looking at the Jews in power in entertainment for example and judging the entire race based off bad guys like Epstein

Here’s where you’re wrong and you kind of help my argument or the way I see things logically

1st

Black people in America (and across the world) have endured more than the Jewish race. (Not to take away from anything that happened to Jews in history)

Just look at what’s happening today..... I rest my case

Similarly Black people have contributed more to the success and foundation of USA and their influence is greater to this day.

Christianity is the reason Judaism has spread all over the world

Like I said, to believe in Jesus anyone logically has to believe in the same GOD from the Torah and ideally live the same way Jesus did and Jesus was a good Jew according to most.

Christianity has spread and impacted the world more than Judaism (it’s the same thing really) or even the contributions of Jewish people (religious or not) to society in USA or whatever country they be.

Coincidentally, Jewish people as a culture are known to naturally stick to themselves and help themselves as you say and yes This is why they’re able to prosper and survive as such a small group of people.

But that’s not to say Jews don’t exist today without the aid, and right connections within the USA and support in this “Christian nation” from leaders always had Jews back.

If we could rewrite history Without Christianity in USA and it’s influence all over the world, Jewish people likely don’t exist and they don’t have Land or Israel to call home

Jesus coming and Christianity becoming a “religion” way of life which thrived throughout history and existing today as it does in effect makes it possible that Judaism would last and still be relevant until today, kind of like an insurance plan by God

Nobody practices Ancient Greek or Egyptians religion and we still got big pyramids and hieroglyphs as a Testament

You say many have tried to destroy and eliminate the Jews in modern times and they almost did but over and over Christians didn’t let them.

No Christians = No Jews

Christians must always respect look out for Jews because (unlike Muslims) they believe the Bible and recognize Jews are still the chosen people of god and obviously it’s just the “Christian” thing to do in helping any persecuted people even Palestinians

It’s not a Jews > others type of thing but Jewish people have more powerful allies than those in Muslim nations

Yes the fact that Jews exist today, have Isreal and their people are rich and successful makes more sense especially to Christians and Jews if you believe God blesses them. Because otherwise it seems impossible

In the same vein you then must believe Christianity has played a major factor in this happening as part of God’s “impossible” plan....

and either you agree that:

Jesus & Christianity is from God and True

Or that:

Christianity is false and of the Devil

If Jesus was “a false prophet” and Christianity is idolatry” as you claim then it’s anti-Judaism and anti God.

Logically I don’t think any “enemy” of the Jewish people would use Jesus and Christianity to ultimately help protect and preserve this same people religion and culture for 2000 years.

On the contrary the true “enemy” of Jewish people would create a religion or way of thinking so that it followers/subscribers would live a life intent on destroying Jewish religion/culture

This is the story seen in the Jewish Bible And we see that happening today still.

History shows that Christianity has been the only thing holding this back from happening.

That’s exactly why Jesus was sent. He could’ve been the savior/king/messiah 2000 years ago But Jews as a collective people didn’t accept him initially so Christianity it is until further notice.

But instead of believing in Jesus maybe Jews (and non Jews) are stuck on teachings like Jews vs gentile. Jewish culture, history and Lineage and what it means to be a Jew.

I get it. If you’re Jewish naturally you don’t see Jesus as a “blank slate” the same way many Christians do. To believe in Jesus you need to lose a certain element of “Jewishness” because it seems like you are taught to

see Jesus as a “pagan sacrifice”

Not a “messiah” or “savior”

But as a “idol” or someone who doesn’t fit in your conception of God.

Before even reading the Gospels and thinking for yourself

I can try to explain to you how I see it, but these things you can’t understand no matter who explains it to you.

You gotta discover for yourself and decided what you believe. That’s why it’s called faith.

Either you believe in Christianity or not,

but How can anyone claim to understand how god works 100% even to the point of putting him in a box as to say what he can & can’t do? Or what he is or isn’t.

God is one obviously. Jesus was a man obviously. But he said and did more than enough things that would suggest he’s more than just a “man”, “Michael the angel ” or another Bible “prophet” . Jesus never said “I am God” or “worship me” that I can recall written in the Bible, but he did say many things in parables and even plainly that people can use to figure out for themselves who he was.

Take for example Mark 10:18

“No man is Good but God”

Why quote what the church’s “traditional Christian godhead” says without at least one attempt at understanding it for yourself.

 

[MMS]

bump california looking biblical

 

[DoubleClutch]

I just realized @Koichos disappeared from this thread.

I had more questions to ask him

 

[Koichos]

Christians believe when the “messiah” Jesus comes back yes the temple have been rebuilt and the Jewish people will have everything they need to function as it’s intended I guess,

Throughout the New Testament Yoshke is claimed to be the sacrifice for mankind's sin as a vicarious atonement. The text is front-loaded with the concept that Yoshke is the final sacrifice for all time, and that there is no longer a need for animal sacrifice for a sin-offering in the messianic era (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 10:18). In Xian theology this is the end, nothing else is needed. Since according to the New Testament not only is the sacrificial system done away with (Hebrews 10:18), but Yoshke is sinless (1 John 3:5), so there would be no need to bring a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the nation. This is utterly incompatible with Xian theology. But we know from the Tenach that this is precisely the case. The last section of Yechezkel is devoted to the messianic age, and in there we have by far the most detailed description of the messianic age where we are told that the sacrificial system is returning (chs. 43, 44), and that Moshiach, who has physical children (Yechezkel 46:16), will bring a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the Jewish People (Yechezkel 45:22).

but you should read revelation and get all the details

There is no reason for someone to a read a non-Jewish book (Revelation), which features apocalyptic imagery from Jewish books (Daniyel, Zecharyoh, etc), in order to get a better understanding of Moshiach and the Messianic Era—a concept wholly and totally derived from, and dependent on, the Jewish Scriptures—when they can just go to the source. The author of the Book of Revelation copied-and-pasted prophecies using the unique metaphorical language found in Tenach and repackaged them in Xtological wrap. In other words, he inserts Yoshke into various messianic passages originally found in the Jewish Scriptures. The Book of Revelation is a book of dualism. The notion of an 'anti-Moshiach', the idea that when Moshiach comes there is going to be an 'anti-Moshiach' who is going to 'dupe' the world into believing that he is the Moshiach, is found a handful of times in Xian canonical literature, most famously in the Book of Revelation. But this idea of an 'anti-Moshiach' is antithetical to Judaism; no such concept exists anywhere in the Jewish Holy Scriptures.

Black people in America (and across the world) have endured more than the Jewish race. (Not to take away from anything that happened to Jews in history)

Just look at what’s happening today..... I rest my case

Similarly Black people have contributed more to the success and foundation of USA and their influence is greater to this day.

Jewish achievement, contribution, influence and representation are unparalleled. No other nation comes close. Jews have contributed more to the world than any other nation, achieved more than any other nation, and endured more than any other nation. Jew-hatred is the world's oldest and most consistent form of hatred, an enactment of the phenomenon which Klal Yisroel carries upon its shoulders as an integral part of being Jewish. The first antisemites were the Midyonim who lived in the days of Avrohom Oveenu 3,800 years ago. In fact, when one takes into consideration the incredible Jewish contribution to the world (in fields such as anthropology, biology, chemistry, economics, linguistics, literature, mathematics, medicine, music, philosophy, physics, psychology, religion, sociology, technology), one will see that the Khirbn/Hashoah was indeed the worst crime against humankind in human history. The worst not only because the Nazis y"sh murdered six million kedoishim hy"d (Mao killed far more)—resulting in the loss of more than 1/3 of world Jewry and 2/3 of those in Europe—but because by doing so they robbed humankind of extremely valuable contributions to our civilization that could have been made by these Jews and their descendants. As Tenach said: there would come a time of anguish for Yaakov, with none like it..

Christianity is the reason Judaism has spread all over the world

Judaism is the reason Xianity even exists, and the Jewish Oral Tradition is the reason Xians can even read the 'Old Testament' portion of the Xian bible.

Jewry being am keshei oref and not observing the mitzvos properly is the reason Judaism has spread throughout the world (D'vorim 4, 28; Voyikroh 26).

The Torah warns Israel that part of the oinesh in Golus is the worshiping of false gods: the religion of the 'עץ' (Xianity) and the religion of the 'אבן' (Islam).

Like I said, to believe in Jesus anyone logically has to believe in the same GOD from the Torah and ideally live the same way Jesus did and Jesus was a good Jew according to most.

According to the New Testament Yoshke was a contentious and witting transgressor, and denier of Hashem's statutes and mitzvos and Jewish Tradition. Perhaps a non-Jew may live the way he did, but for a Jew it is a vodai issur d'oroyso, a clear Torah prohibition. This is why many frum Jews refrain from merely pronouncing his proper name, language aside. The Torah forbids a Jew from mentioning the names of false gods (unless they appear in Tenach): loi yishomo ol picho; hence 'Yoshke', 'Yaishu', or 'Yoizel', by-names of the false god of Xianity - 'Yoshke' being the Yiddish diminutive of Yaishu (like 'Miritchke' for Miryom or 'Shmelke' for Shmuel). By analogy, if you may not eat something it can be because it is kodshim (holy) or tomei (impure). That is what we are doing by not mentioning his name.

If we could rewrite history Without Christianity in USA and it’s influence all over the world, Jewish people likely don’t exist and they don’t have Land or Israel to call home

As long as the sun and the moon exist, Jews exist. Eretz Yisroel was destined to be resettled (and Jewish sovereignty reestablished) regardless; it is the divinely ordained destiny of the Jewish People. In fact, a Jew may never consider chuts lo'orets (the land outside of Israel) his home for a permanence, no matter how comfortable golus may seem. The moment a Jew says of chu"l, "This is my home, I have no reason to ever leave", he has become an apikuris. Eretz Yisroel is always every Jew's home. It's just that much of the klal, for one reason or another, is currently living abroad. But Israel's revival occurred precisely when it was supposed to. And the capture, liberation and reunification of Yerusholoyim during the third Arab-Israeli war marks the fulfillment of a prophecy found in ksuvim to the day.

Jesus coming and Christianity becoming a “religion” way of life which thrived throughout history and existing today as it does in effect makes it possible that Judaism would last and still be relevant until today, kind of like an insurance plan by God

Historically, Xtendom has tried to destroy Judaism by means of persecution-based proselytism. But as missionizing became more sophisticated, the performance became less physical. Today, missionaries target chiloni-specific areas donning Jewish religious dress like tzitziyos, talleisim and yarmulkes (1 Cor. 9:20), with a New Testament in hand preaching "the word of Yaishu", using Yoshke's Hebrew name to garner a Jewish connection. Xian missionaries spend a quarter of a billion dollars annually to proselytize Jews in Israel alone.

You say many have tried to destroy and eliminate the Jews in modern times and they almost did but over and over Christians didn’t let them.

Xtendom has done more harm to Jewry, for longer, than any other nation. Xians have been at the forefront of Jewish persecution (edicts, crusades, inquisitions, expulsions, blood libels, pogroms, ghettos) for nearly 2,000 years, all under the banner of the cross.

No Christians = No Jews

It's the other way around. No Jews = No Xians OR Moslems. Jews are an eternal nation. Hashem states clearly that Jews would cease to be a nation if and only if the laws of day and night, sun and moon, are annulled.

It’s not a Jews > others type of thing but Jewish people have more powerful allies than those in Muslim nations

Yes the fact that Jews exist today, have Isreal and their people are rich and successful makes more sense especially to Christians and Jews if you believe God blesses them. Because otherwise it seems impossible

In the same vein you then must believe Christianity has played a major factor in this happening as part of God’s “impossible” plan....

and either you agree that:

Jesus & Christianity is from God and True

Or that:

Christianity is false and of the Devil

Both Xianity AND Islam are false systems. More, there is no 'devil'. The 'devil' is a Xian amalgam shared also by Moslems, which perhaps owes some of its origins to pagan and other similar sources such as Zoroastrianism/Mazdayasna and Manichaeism, both of which are dualistic religions. It is not from Torah that Xianity got the idea that good and evil are in the midst of constant battle, and that Hashem is on the side of good, and the 'devil' is on the side of bad. To accept that idea, one must also hold that Hashem does not win every battle. In Torah השטן or 'hasatan' (the satan) is not Hashem's antagonist, but one of His malachim/angels who is also subservient. השטן simply means "adversary" or "opponent" or "opposer", the evil inclination created by Hashem to tempt man, entirely bound to His will.

Compare the verses found in Shmuel B 24:1 and Divrey HaYomim A 21:1. They tell the same exact story, but one says Hashem incites Dovid Hamelech to count the people (24:1), and the other says the satan incites Dovid Hamelech to count the people (21:1). Is this a contradiction? In Xianity it would be; but Jews have always known through Torah that the satan is not an antagonist to Hashem. Since he is doing what Hashem told him to do, Shmuel Hanovi refers to the satan's actions as actions directly of Hashem. Malachim (usually translated as angels, though the English word angel gives the wrong connotation as it implies good; malachim are not intrinsically good) have no free will. Malachim only exist to carry out the task for which they have been created hence the title 'malachim', messengers.

If Jesus was “a false prophet” and Christianity is idolatry” as you claim then it’s anti-Judaism and anti God.

The core tenets of Xianity are diametrically opposed to Judaism.

Logically I don’t think any “enemy” of the Jewish people would use Jesus and Christianity to ultimately help protect and preserve this same people religion and culture for 2000 years.

On the contrary the true “enemy” of Jewish people would create a religion or way of thinking so that it followers/subscribers would live a life intent on destroying Jewish religion/culture

This is the story seen in the Jewish Bible And we see that happening today still.

History shows that Christianity has been the only thing holding this back from happening.

Xtendom is the fourth beast as prophesied in Daniyel, the greatest stumbling block the Jewish People have ever known, the longest enduring and most deadliest of all our oppressors for nearly two millennia.

That’s exactly why Jesus was sent. He could’ve been the savior/king/messiah 2000 years ago But Jews as a collective people didn’t accept him initially so Christianity it is until further notice.

That is not at all how Tenach's account of Moshiach's arrival works. Moshiach doesn't just disappear and abandon his purpose because Jews don't accept him. As a nation we didn't (and don't) accept Yoshke because he's clearly not the Moshiach prophesied in Tenach. There are several criteria outlined in Tenach concerning the identification of Moshiach Tzidkeinu, the scion of Dovid (all of which we daven for thrice daily in the amidah), none of which Yoshke actually satisfies. Moshiach must be a frum Jew; Yoshke was far from it. And this does not even take into consideration the fact that Yoshke does not fulfill the most fundamental requirement of Moshiach: direct patrilineal descent from Dovid Hamelech. Based on the New Testament, Yoshke was bereft of tribal affiliation as he had no earthly father. Yoshke was not, is not and will never be, the Moshiach. According to the Jewish Holy Scriptures, it is quite literally impossible. The sure signs of Moshiach's arrival have yet to come to pass. Moshiach and the Messianic Era lie in our era or in a future era, not in the past.

The closest messianic individual Israel has known was Shimon Bar Kochba who fulfilled all the qualifications required for a probationary assumption including direct paternal descendance from Dovid Hamelech. The by-name בר כוכבא or 'Bar Kochba', Aramaic for "son of a star", was given to Shimon as a reference to a verse in the Torah (Bomidbor 24:17) referring to Moshiach as a כוכב or 'Kochav', a star. It is a messianic sobriquet on account of the belief that Shimon was the Moshiach prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures. However, this changed once he was niftar, when it was understood that he was not who he (and others) proclaimed (him) to be, as Moshiach ben Dovid does not die in the midst of his purpose. In turn, Chazal referred to Shimon as בן כוזבה (Ben Kozevah) or בר כוזיבא (Bar Koziva), the Hebrew כוזבה meaning "falsehood". Shimon was deemed בן כוזבה, "son of a lie" (בר כוזיבא being its Aramaic equivalent). Since a Jew who was niftar cannot be Moshiach in the future, it really does not matter who fulfilled the prophecies the best—there is no partial credit.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Throughout the New Testament Yoshke is claimed to be the sacrifice for mankind's sin as a vicarious atonement. The text is front-loaded with the concept that Yoshke is the final sacrifice for all time, and that there is no longer a need for animal sacrifice for a sin-offering in the messianic era (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 10:18). In Xian theology this is the end, nothing else is needed. Since according to the New Testament not only is the sacrificial system done away with (Hebrews 10:18), but Yoshke is sinless (1 John 3:5), so there would be no need to bring a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the nation. This is utterly incompatible with Xian theology. But we know from the Tenach that this is precisely the case. The last section of Yechezkel is devoted to the messianic age, and in there we have by far the most detailed description of the messianic age where we are told that the sacrificial system is returning (chs. 43, 44), and that Moshiach, who has physical children (Yechezkel 46:16), will bring a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the Jewish People (Yechezkel 45:22).


There is no reason for someone to a read a non-Jewish book (Revelation), which features apocalyptic imagery from Jewish books (Daniyel, Zecharyoh, etc), in order to get a better understanding of Moshiach and the Messianic Era—a concept wholly and totally derived from, and dependent on, the Jewish Scriptures—when they can just go to the source. The author of the Book of Revelation copied-and-pasted prophecies using the unique metaphorical language found in Tenach and repackaged them in Xtological wrap. In other words, he inserts Yoshke into various messianic passages originally found in the Jewish Scriptures. The Book of Revelation is a book of dualism. The notion of an 'anti-Moshiach', the idea that when Moshiach comes there is going to be an 'anti-Moshiach' who is going to 'dupe' the world into believing that he is the Moshiach, is found a handful of times in Xian canonical literature, most famously in the Book of Revelation. But this idea of an 'anti-Moshiach' is antithetical to Judaism; no such concept exists anywhere in the Jewish Holy Scriptures.


Jewish achievement, contribution, influence and representation are unparalleled. No other nation comes close. Jews have contributed more to the world than any other nation, achieved more than any other nation, and endured more than any other nation. Jew-hatred is the world's oldest and most consistent form of hatred, an enactment of the phenomenon which Klal Yisroel carries upon its shoulders as an integral part of being Jewish. The first antisemites were the Midyonim who lived in the days of Avrohom Oveenu 3,800 years ago. In fact, when one takes into consideration the incredible Jewish contribution to the world (in fields such as anthropology, biology, chemistry, economics, linguistics, literature, mathematics, medicine, music, philosophy, physics, psychology, religion, sociology, technology), one will see that the Khirbn/Hashoah was indeed the worst crime against humankind in human history. The worst not only because the Nazis y"sh murdered six million kedoishim hy"d (Mao killed far more)—resulting in the loss of more than 1/3 of world Jewry and 2/3 of those in Europe—but because by doing so they robbed humankind of extremely valuable contributions to our civilization that could have been made by these Jews and their descendants. As Tenach said: there would come a time of anguish for Yaakov, with none like it..


Judaism is the reason Xianity even exists, and the Jewish Oral Tradition is the reason Xians can even read the 'Old Testament' portion of the Xian bible.

Jewry being am keshei oref and not observing the mitzvos properly is the reason Judaism has spread throughout the world (D'vorim 4, 28; Voyikroh 26).

The Torah warns Israel that part of the oinesh in Golus is the worshiping of false gods: the religion of the 'עץ' (Xianity) and the religion of the 'אבן' (Islam).


According to the New Testament Yoshke was a contentious and witting transgressor, and denier of Hashem's statutes and mitzvos and Jewish Tradition. Perhaps a non-Jew may live the way he did, but for a Jew it is a vodai issur d'oroyso, a clear Torah prohibition. This is why many frum Jews refrain from merely pronouncing his proper name, language aside. The Torah forbids a Jew from mentioning the names of false gods (unless they appear in Tenach): loi yishomo ol picho; hence 'Yoshke', 'Yaishu', or 'Yoizel', by-names of the false god of Xianity - 'Yoshke' being the Yiddish diminutive of Yaishu (like 'Miritchke' for Miryom or 'Shmelke' for Shmuel). By analogy, if you may not eat something it can be because it is kodshim (holy) or tomei (impure). That is what we are doing by not mentioning his name.


As long as the sun and the moon exist, Jews exist. Eretz Yisroel was destined to be resettled (and Jewish sovereignty reestablished) regardless; it is the divinely ordained destiny of the Jewish People. In fact, a Jew may never consider chuts lo'orets (the land outside of Israel) his home for a permanence, no matter how comfortable golus may seem. The moment a Jew says of chu"l, "This is my home, I have no reason to ever leave", he has become an apikuris. Eretz Yisroel is always every Jew's home. It's just that much of the klal, for one reason or another, is currently living abroad. But Israel's revival occurred precisely when it was supposed to. And the capture, liberation and reunification of Yerusholoyim during the third Arab-Israeli war marks the fulfillment of a prophecy found in ksuvim to the day.


Historically, Xtendom has tried to destroy Judaism by means of persecution-based proselytism. But as missionizing became more sophisticated, the performance became less physical. Today, missionaries target chiloni-specific areas donning Jewish religious dress like tzitziyos, talleisim and yarmulkes (1 Cor. 9:20), with a New Testament in hand preaching "the word of Yaishu", using Yoshke's Hebrew name to garner a Jewish connection. Xian missionaries spend a quarter of a billion dollars annually to proselytize Jews in Israel alone.


Xtendom has done more harm to Jewry, for longer, than any other nation. Xians have been at the forefront of Jewish persecution (edicts, crusades, inquisitions, expulsions, blood libels, pogroms, ghettos) for nearly 2,000 years, all under the banner of the cross.


It's the other way around. No Jews = No Xians OR Moslems. Jews are an eternal nation. Hashem states clearly that Jews would cease to be a nation if and only if the laws of day and night, sun and moon, are annulled.


Both Xianity AND Islam are false systems. More, there is no 'devil'. The 'devil' is a Xian amalgam shared also by Moslems, which perhaps owes some of its origins to pagan and other similar sources such as Zoroastrianism/Mazdayasna and Manichaeism, both of which are dualistic religions. It is not from Torah that Xianity got the idea that good and evil are in the midst of constant battle, and that Hashem is on the side of good, and the 'devil' is on the side of bad. To accept that idea, one must also hold that Hashem does not win every battle. In Torah השטן or 'hasatan' (the satan) is not Hashem's antagonist, but one of His malachim/angels who is also subservient. השטן simply means "adversary" or "opponent" or "opposer", the evil inclination created by Hashem to tempt man, entirely bound to His will.

Compare the verses found in Shmuel B 24:1 and Divrey HaYomim A 21:1. They tell the same exact story, but one says Hashem incites Dovid Hamelech to count the people (24:1), and the other says the satan incites Dovid Hamelech to count the people (21:1). Is this a contradiction? In Xianity it would be; but Jews have always known through Torah that the satan is not an antagonist to Hashem. Since he is doing what Hashem told him to do, Shmuel Hanovi refers to the satan's actions as actions directly of Hashem. Malachim (usually translated as angels, though the English word angel gives the wrong connotation as it implies good; malachim are not intrinsically good) have no free will. Malachim only exist to carry out the task for which they have been created hence the title 'malachim', messengers.


The core tenets of Xianity are diametrically opposed to Judaism.


Xtendom is the fourth beast as prophesied in Daniyel, the greatest stumbling block the Jewish People have ever known, the longest enduring and most deadliest of all our oppressors for nearly two millennia.


That is not at all how Tenach's account of Moshiach's arrival works. Moshiach doesn't just disappear and abandon his purpose because Jews don't accept him. As a nation we didn't (and don't) accept Yoshke because he's clearly not the Moshiach prophesied in Tenach. There are several criteria outlined in Tenach concerning the identification of Moshiach Tzidkeinu, the scion of Dovid (all of which we daven for thrice daily in the amidah), none of which Yoshke actually satisfies. Moshiach must be a frum Jew; Yoshke was far from it. And this does not even take into consideration the fact that Yoshke does not fulfill the most fundamental requirement of Moshiach: direct patrilineal descent from Dovid Hamelech. Based on the New Testament, Yoshke was bereft of tribal affiliation as he had no earthly father. Yoshke was not, is not and will never be, the Moshiach. According to the Jewish Holy Scriptures, it is quite literally impossible. The sure signs of Moshiach's arrival have yet to come to pass. Moshiach and the Messianic Era lie in our era or in a future era, not in the past.

The closest messianic individual Israel has known was Shimon Bar Kochba who fulfilled all the qualifications required for a probationary assumption including direct paternal descendance from Dovid Hamelech. The by-name בר כוכבא or 'Bar Kochba', Aramaic for "son of a star", was given to Shimon as a reference to a verse in the Torah (Bomidbor 24:17) referring to Moshiach as a כוכב or 'Kochav', a star. It is a messianic sobriquet on account of the belief that Shimon was the Moshiach prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures. However, this changed once he was niftar, when it was understood that he was not who he (and others) proclaimed (him) to be, as Moshiach ben Dovid does not die in the midst of his purpose. In turn, Chazal referred to Shimon as בן כוזבה (Ben Kozevah) or בר כוזיבא (Bar Koziva), the Hebrew כוזבה meaning "falsehood". Shimon was deemed בן כוזבה, "son of a lie" (בר כוזיבא being its Aramaic equivalent). Since a Jew who was niftar cannot be Moshiach in the future, it really does not matter who fulfilled the prophecies the best—there is no partial credit.

I’m gonna get to all that in....

But I had a question about a OT scripture from to know what it means in your perspective/Jewish understanding

and also what the Hebrew says in translation

In psalms 82:6-7 it says

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

And

“But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.’

maybe you can give me some context on that chapter and verse

But mainly I wanna know the term “gods” as it’s used here what does it mean in Jewish terms as you see it and how you’re taught

What is the Hebrew word/transition compared to how the word God it’s used to refer to God, the creator in Genesis or elsewhere in the Torah

It’s Elohim? Or what other types of translations or names can you use when referring to people who obviously are not God.

Next, as you know Jesus quotes this scripture to make a point.

How do you interpret this? What’s the difference between Jewish judges/prophets being seen as “God-like” figures in their time and later Jesus being that “son of God” title and having that God like authoritative presence in teaching

Also how do you react to people (non Jewish/Christian) that say stuff like “we are Gods” “god is in me” “god is everything/everywhere” etc.. And might use similar logic from this same scripture in a way to justify their beliefs

 

[Koichos]

I’m gonna get to all that in....

But I had a question about a OT scripture from to know what it means in your perspective/Jewish understanding

and also what the Hebrew says in translation

In psalms 82:6-7 it says

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

And

“But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.’

maybe you can give me some context on that chapter and verse

But mainly I wanna know the term “gods” as it’s used here what does it mean in Jewish terms as you see it and how you’re taught

The Hebrew word אלהים in T'hilim 82:6 can be translated many different ways: "angelic creatures", "divine beings", "powerful ones", "important ones", "judges". It is being used there in reference to Jews as an exalted people by virtue of receiving the Torah. Comes verse 7, juxtaposing "אלהים" and Masan Torah (receiving of the Torah) with "אדם" and Aigel HaZahav (the golden calf): "..However, like man [אדם], you will die". Indeed, like Adom (אדם), you will die, since you corrupted your deeds (with the golden calf) as he did (with the fruit). It is interesting to note that Yaakov, after contending with the angel, had his name changed to ישראל (Yisroel). The Jewish People are ישראל (Yisroel), the אל or 'el' being an angelic ending—רפאל (Rafoel), גבריאל (Govriel), מיכאל (Michoel)—corresponding with T'hilim 82:6.

Spoiler

A deeper understanding of ישראל:

יצחק/יעקב - י (Yitzchok and Yaakov)
שרה - ש (Sorah)
רבקה/רחל - ר (Rivka and Rochel)
אברהם - א (Avrohom)
לאה - ל (Leah)

Abraham and Sarah / Isaac and Rebecca / Jacob, Rachel and Leah—the three Patriarchs and four Matriarchs who birthed the Jewish nation are all in the name ישראל!

What is the Hebrew word/transition compared to how the word God it’s used to refer to God, the creator in Genesis or elsewhere in the Torah

It’s Elohim? Or what other types of translations or names can you use when referring to people who obviously are not God.

אלהים is a homonym (see here). When used in reference to man, אלהים denotes great importance. Those who represent Hashem's Word are often called אלהים in Tenach (Moshe in Shmos 7:1), even י-ה-ו-ה (Yeshayohu in Yeshayohu 7:10). In the Tenach people could be called 'G-d' when they're not G-d at all. Those who are carrying out Hashem's Wishes or teaching Hashem's Word or judging people based on the Torah are called אלהים or י-ה-ו-ה. In modern vernacular we don't speak that way; but in Tenach the neviyim spoke that way.

Next, as you know Jesus quotes this scripture to make a point.

How do you interpret this? What’s the difference between Jewish judges/prophets being seen as “God-like” figures in their time and later Jesus being that “son of God” title and having that God like authoritative presence in teaching

Hashem explicitly states in the Torah (Shmos 4:22, D'vorim 14:1) that Israel as a klal, a whole, is His son; so yes, Yoshke is a son, just as any one Jew is. But he is not the son, as in 1/3 of a triune godhead. Moreover, Yoshke often quoted sayings from the oral tradition, particularly from the Mishnah. There are at least seventy expressions from Yoshke in the New Testament (that I am aware of) derived from the oral tradition—sayings which can be found all throughout the Mishnayos, Braissos, Toseftos, Talmudim, Sifre, Midroshim, and various Tannoitic and Amoroitic liturgical texts. Within all four Gospels there are also examples where Yoshke's teachings align word-for-word with that of Bais Hillel, Hillel Hazokein who was born in the Second Century BCE. Much of what Yoshke taught was not original.

Also how do you react to people (non Jewish/Christian) that say stuff like “we are Gods” “god is in me” “god is everything/everywhere” etc.. And might use similar logic from this same scripture in a way to justify their beliefs

This particular scripture is speaking directly to the Jewish People, and so it is flawed for non-Jews to use it as footing for such beliefs. Nonetheless, ignorance should be expected since without the Jewish oral tradition Tenach hardly makes any sense. Hashem tells us in Dovorim 4 that the gentile nations would gain access to the Written Torah through golus. However, they would never have complete access to the part of Torah that is unique to the Jews who have to keep these mitzvos. Hashem even says He didn't give all the details in the Written Torah for this very reason (lest Israel be counted the same as gentiles): "Ekhtov loi ruboi torasi kimoi zor nekhshovu." In the Torah, wherever you find the Hebrew word for Torah in its plural form, it is always accompanied by the expression "Baino u'Vain B'nai Yisroel", that the Torahs are a bris between Hashem and the Jewish People. The very nature of the Oral Torah is to tell us how to observe the Written Torah. It is Hashem's command. And we can see from the earliest times of the Neviyim that the Oral Law was followed.

In fact, there are numerous examples in the Tenach itself where the prophets chasten the Jewish People for a violation of the Oral Law/Oral Torah. Furthermore, there is an interesting passage in T'hilim (147:19a): Moggid d'vorov l'Yaakov, "He gave His words to Jacob." It's plural, meaning the Written Law and the Oral Law. Chukov u'mishpotov l'yisroel, "His laws and His statutes to Israel" (147:19b). Now to the following verse, the last verse of T'hillim 147: Loi oseh chain l'chol goy, "He [the Al-mighty] did not do so [give this over] to any other nation" (147:20a). And therefore, u'Mishpotim bol yodum Halelukah, "And [so] they do not know the precepts. Halelukah!" (147:20b). Hashem gave His words to Yaakov, and therefore the statutes and commandments to Am Yisroel. He didn't give them to the other nations, thus the Jewish People have both. The revelation at Har Sinai was a unique covenant between Hashem and the Jewish People. And therefore, even though the gentile nations have access to the Five Books of Moshe, they don't know how to keep it. Halelukah!

 

[DoubleClutch]

The Hebrew word אלהים in T'hilim 82:6 can be translated many different ways: "angelic creatures", "divine beings", "powerful ones", "important ones", "judges". It is being used there in reference to Jews as an exalted people by virtue of receiving the Torah. Comes verse 7, juxtaposing "אלהים" and Masan Torah (receiving of the Torah) with "אדם" and Aigel HaZahav (the golden calf): "..However, like man [אדם], you will die". Indeed, like Adom (אדם), you will die, since you corrupted your deeds (with the golden calf) as he did (with the fruit). It is interesting to note that Yaakov, after contending with the angel, had his name changed to ישראל (Yisroel). The Jewish People are ישראל (Yisroel), the אל or 'el' being an angelic ending—רפאל (Rafoel), גבריאל (Govriel), מיכאל (Michoel)—corresponding with T'hilim 82:6.

Spoiler

A deeper understanding of ישראל:

יצחק/יעקב - י (Yitzchok and Yaakov)
שרה - ש (Sorah)
רבקה/רחל - ר (Rivka and Rochel)
אברהם - א (Avrohom)
לאה - ל (Leah)

Abraham and Sarah / Isaac and Rebecca / Jacob, Rachel and Leah—the three Patriarchs and four Matriarchs who birthed the Jewish nation are all in the name ישראל!

אלהים is a homonym (see here). When used in reference to man, אלהים denotes great importance. Those who represent Hashem's Word are often called אלהים in Tenach (Moshe in Shmos 7:1), even י-ה-ו-ה (Yeshayohu in Yeshayohu 7:10). In the Tenach people could be called 'G-d' when they're not G-d at all. Those who are carrying out Hashem's Wishes or teaching Hashem's Word or judging people based on the Torah are called אלהים or י-ה-ו-ה. In modern vernacular we don't speak that way; but in Tenach the neviyim spoke that way.


Hashem explicitly states in the Torah (Shmos 4:22, D'vorim 14:1) that Israel as a klal, a whole, is His son; so yes, Yoshke is a son, just as any one Jew is. But he is not the son, as in 1/3 of a triune godhead. Moreover, Yoshke often quoted sayings from the oral tradition, particularly from the Mishnah. There are at least seventy expressions from Yoshke in the New Testament (that I am aware of) derived from the oral tradition—sayings which can be found all throughout the Mishnayos, Braissos, Toseftos, Talmudim, Sifre, Midroshim, and various Tannoitic and Amoroitic liturgical texts. Within all four Gospels there are also examples where Yoshke's teachings align word-for-word with that of Bais Hillel, Hillel Hazokein who was born in the Second Century BCE. Much of what Yoshke taught was not original.


This particular scripture is speaking directly to the Jewish People, and so it is flawed for non-Jews to use it as footing for such beliefs. Nonetheless, ignorance should be expected since without the Jewish oral tradition Tenach hardly makes any sense. Hashem tells us in Dovorim 4 that the gentile nations would gain access to the Written Torah through golus. However, they would never have complete access to the part of Torah that is unique to the Jews who have to keep these mitzvos. Hashem even says He didn't give all the details in the Written Torah for this very reason (lest Israel be counted the same as gentiles): "Ekhtov loi ruboi torasi kimoi zor nekhshovu." In the Torah, wherever you find the Hebrew word for Torah in its plural form, it is always accompanied by the expression "Baino u'Vain B'nai Yisroel", that the Torahs are a bris between Hashem and the Jewish People. The very nature of the Oral Torah is to tell us how to observe the Written Torah. It is Hashem's command. And we can see from the earliest times of the Neviyim that the Oral Law was followed.

In fact, there are numerous examples in the Tenach itself where the prophets chasten the Jewish People for a violation of the Oral Law/Oral Torah. Furthermore, there is an interesting passage in T'hilim (147:19a): Moggid d'vorov l'Yaakov, "He gave His words to Jacob." It's plural, meaning the Written Law and the Oral Law. Chukov u'mishpotov l'yisroel, "His laws and His statutes to Israel" (147:19b). Now to the following verse, the last verse of T'hillim 147: Loi oseh chain l'chol goy, "He [the Al-mighty] did not do so [give this over] to any other nation" (147:20a). And therefore, u'Mishpotim bol yodum Halelukah, "And [so] they do not know the precepts. Halelukah!" (147:20b). Hashem gave His words to Yaakov, and therefore the statutes and commandments to Am Yisroel. He didn't give them to the other nations, thus the Jewish People have both. The revelation at Har Sinai was a unique covenant between Hashem and the Jewish People. And therefore, even though the gentile nations have access to the Five Books of Moshe, they don't know how to keep it. Halelukah!

I get it. Elohim is used in the Torah in description and also to refer to other things that are in a way “god-like” (still don’t understand how demons/angels can be also Included in this). It can be plural but never when referring to God who we know only by his “name”

Let me ask you this then, why don’t Muslims call God YHWH if that’s his name (and not a generic translation of the word God) and they claim to worship the same God of Abraham?

And I agree people using the Torah to apply it to their own religious views without understanding the Jewish culture, history or knowing the language can be a problem especially if they’re trying to teach others

But if the “gentile nations” learn Hebrew and even many converts grow up Jewish and learn the written/oral law what is the difference?

And there can be many ethnically Hebrew/Jewish people today who don’t know the torah and don’t speak Hebrew or keep the law oral/written

And there’s also “religious Jews” who think they’re following law but aren’t genuine and have corrupted it and turned it into their own religion like many have done with Christianity

I know you agreeThis is what was happening at some point before Jesus came

Like he said, he came for the lost sheep.

Even though god gave Jews only the written law and oral traditions, who’s to say that they could keep it as intended

Yea Israel and Jewish people always have the covenant but they need the Messiah to fulfill everything

As of now and going on 2000 years Israel hasn’t kept their side of the deal

The way I see it, the oral and written law/traditions applied to a time before Jesus

Jesus ushered in a new era you might see it as the “gentiles” era but really it’s the kingdom or Messiah era cause really he is the Lord/Messiah whether all Jews accepted him or not doesn’t change the fact. Eventually all will come to accept the Messiah at one point whether past, present or future.

And when you think of the term “son of God” it’s not the same as us all being “sons” of YHWH like it says in the Torah.

Even a non Jew, non Christian, sinner, etc... is still “gods children” right?

But Jesus calling himself “the son of God” (among many other titles) is more a title or metaphor used so we can better understand who he is, his teachings, his mission/purpose and his role (in relation to the father for example).

That’s why Jesus makes the point that “when you see the father, you see me” or “ me and the father are one”

It’s kinda like the phrase “like father, like son”. Jesus obeyed his father in heaven. Jesus was the only human who could live perfect as if like God on earth. And not “a God” or Elohim, or simply just another judge, ruler, prophet, or priest that would ultimately die.

Also that’s why Jesus name is important. Distinguishes him from being confused as any of the above or being just a normal man or “sons of God” like us.

That’s how I (personally) make sense of it, in my point of view, anyways... does it make sense to you?

 

[MMS]

Throughout the New Testament Yoshke is claimed to be the sacrifice for mankind's sin as a vicarious atonement. The text is front-loaded with the concept that Yoshke is the final sacrifice for all time, and that there is no longer a need for animal sacrifice for a sin-offering in the messianic era (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 10:18). In Xian theology this is the end, nothing else is needed. Since according to the New Testament not only is the sacrificial system done away with (Hebrews 10:18), but Yoshke is sinless (1 John 3:5), so there would be no need to bring a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the nation. This is utterly incompatible with Xian theology. But we know from the Tenach that this is precisely the case. The last section of Yechezkel is devoted to the messianic age, and in there we have by far the most detailed description of the messianic age where we are told that the sacrificial system is returning (chs. 43, 44), and that Moshiach, who has physical children (Yechezkel 46:16), will bring a sin-offering on behalf of himself and the Jewish People (Yechezkel 45:22).


There is no reason for someone to a read a non-Jewish book (Revelation), which features apocalyptic imagery from Jewish books (Daniyel, Zecharyoh, etc), in order to get a better understanding of Moshiach and the Messianic Era—a concept wholly and totally derived from, and dependent on, the Jewish Scriptures—when they can just go to the source. The author of the Book of Revelation copied-and-pasted prophecies using the unique metaphorical language found in Tenach and repackaged them in Xtological wrap. In other words, he inserts Yoshke into various messianic passages originally found in the Jewish Scriptures. The Book of Revelation is a book of dualism. The notion of an 'anti-Moshiach', the idea that when Moshiach comes there is going to be an 'anti-Moshiach' who is going to 'dupe' the world into believing that he is the Moshiach, is found a handful of times in Xian canonical literature, most famously in the Book of Revelation. But this idea of an 'anti-Moshiach' is antithetical to Judaism; no such concept exists anywhere in the Jewish Holy Scriptures.


Jewish achievement, contribution, influence and representation are unparalleled. No other nation comes close. Jews have contributed more to the world than any other nation, achieved more than any other nation, and endured more than any other nation. Jew-hatred is the world's oldest and most consistent form of hatred, an enactment of the phenomenon which Klal Yisroel carries upon its shoulders as an integral part of being Jewish. The first antisemites were the Midyonim who lived in the days of Avrohom Oveenu 3,800 years ago. In fact, when one takes into consideration the incredible Jewish contribution to the world (in fields such as anthropology, biology, chemistry, economics, linguistics, literature, mathematics, medicine, music, philosophy, physics, psychology, religion, sociology, technology), one will see that the Khirbn/Hashoah was indeed the worst crime against humankind in human history. The worst not only because the Nazis y"sh murdered six million kedoishim hy"d (Mao killed far more)—resulting in the loss of more than 1/3 of world Jewry and 2/3 of those in Europe—but because by doing so they robbed humankind of extremely valuable contributions to our civilization that could have been made by these Jews and their descendants. As Tenach said: there would come a time of anguish for Yaakov, with none like it..


Judaism is the reason Xianity even exists, and the Jewish Oral Tradition is the reason Xians can even read the 'Old Testament' portion of the Xian bible.

Jewry being am keshei oref and not observing the mitzvos properly is the reason Judaism has spread throughout the world (D'vorim 4, 28; Voyikroh 26).

The Torah warns Israel that part of the oinesh in Golus is the worshiping of false gods: the religion of the 'עץ' (Xianity) and the religion of the 'אבן' (Islam).


According to the New Testament Yoshke was a contentious and witting transgressor, and denier of Hashem's statutes and mitzvos and Jewish Tradition. Perhaps a non-Jew may live the way he did, but for a Jew it is a vodai issur d'oroyso, a clear Torah prohibition. This is why many frum Jews refrain from merely pronouncing his proper name, language aside. The Torah forbids a Jew from mentioning the names of false gods (unless they appear in Tenach): loi yishomo ol picho; hence 'Yoshke', 'Yaishu', or 'Yoizel', by-names of the false god of Xianity - 'Yoshke' being the Yiddish diminutive of Yaishu (like 'Miritchke' for Miryom or 'Shmelke' for Shmuel). By analogy, if you may not eat something it can be because it is kodshim (holy) or tomei (impure). That is what we are doing by not mentioning his name.


As long as the sun and the moon exist, Jews exist. Eretz Yisroel was destined to be resettled (and Jewish sovereignty reestablished) regardless; it is the divinely ordained destiny of the Jewish People. In fact, a Jew may never consider chuts lo'orets (the land outside of Israel) his home for a permanence, no matter how comfortable golus may seem. The moment a Jew says of chu"l, "This is my home, I have no reason to ever leave", he has become an apikuris. Eretz Yisroel is always every Jew's home. It's just that much of the klal, for one reason or another, is currently living abroad. But Israel's revival occurred precisely when it was supposed to. And the capture, liberation and reunification of Yerusholoyim during the third Arab-Israeli war marks the fulfillment of a prophecy found in ksuvim to the day.


Historically, Xtendom has tried to destroy Judaism by means of persecution-based proselytism. But as missionizing became more sophisticated, the performance became less physical. Today, missionaries target chiloni-specific areas donning Jewish religious dress like tzitziyos, talleisim and yarmulkes (1 Cor. 9:20), with a New Testament in hand preaching "the word of Yaishu", using Yoshke's Hebrew name to garner a Jewish connection. Xian missionaries spend a quarter of a billion dollars annually to proselytize Jews in Israel alone.


Xtendom has done more harm to Jewry, for longer, than any other nation. Xians have been at the forefront of Jewish persecution (edicts, crusades, inquisitions, expulsions, blood libels, pogroms, ghettos) for nearly 2,000 years, all under the banner of the cross.


It's the other way around. No Jews = No Xians OR Moslems. Jews are an eternal nation. Hashem states clearly that Jews would cease to be a nation if and only if the laws of day and night, sun and moon, are annulled.


Both Xianity AND Islam are false systems. More, there is no 'devil'. The 'devil' is a Xian amalgam shared also by Moslems, which perhaps owes some of its origins to pagan and other similar sources such as Zoroastrianism/Mazdayasna and Manichaeism, both of which are dualistic religions. It is not from Torah that Xianity got the idea that good and evil are in the midst of constant battle, and that Hashem is on the side of good, and the 'devil' is on the side of bad. To accept that idea, one must also hold that Hashem does not win every battle. In Torah השטן or 'hasatan' (the satan) is not Hashem's antagonist, but one of His malachim/angels who is also subservient. השטן simply means "adversary" or "opponent" or "opposer", the evil inclination created by Hashem to tempt man, entirely bound to His will.

Compare the verses found in Shmuel B 24:1 and Divrey HaYomim A 21:1. They tell the same exact story, but one says Hashem incites Dovid Hamelech to count the people (24:1), and the other says the satan incites Dovid Hamelech to count the people (21:1). Is this a contradiction? In Xianity it would be; but Jews have always known through Torah that the satan is not an antagonist to Hashem. Since he is doing what Hashem told him to do, Shmuel Hanovi refers to the satan's actions as actions directly of Hashem. Malachim (usually translated as angels, though the English word angel gives the wrong connotation as it implies good; malachim are not intrinsically good) have no free will. Malachim only exist to carry out the task for which they have been created hence the title 'malachim', messengers.


The core tenets of Xianity are diametrically opposed to Judaism.


Xtendom is the fourth beast as prophesied in Daniyel, the greatest stumbling block the Jewish People have ever known, the longest enduring and most deadliest of all our oppressors for nearly two millennia.


That is not at all how Tenach's account of Moshiach's arrival works. Moshiach doesn't just disappear and abandon his purpose because Jews don't accept him. As a nation we didn't (and don't) accept Yoshke because he's clearly not the Moshiach prophesied in Tenach. There are several criteria outlined in Tenach concerning the identification of Moshiach Tzidkeinu, the scion of Dovid (all of which we daven for thrice daily in the amidah), none of which Yoshke actually satisfies. Moshiach must be a frum Jew; Yoshke was far from it. And this does not even take into consideration the fact that Yoshke does not fulfill the most fundamental requirement of Moshiach: direct patrilineal descent from Dovid Hamelech. Based on the New Testament, Yoshke was bereft of tribal affiliation as he had no earthly father. Yoshke was not, is not and will never be, the Moshiach. According to the Jewish Holy Scriptures, it is quite literally impossible. The sure signs of Moshiach's arrival have yet to come to pass. Moshiach and the Messianic Era lie in our era or in a future era, not in the past.

The closest messianic individual Israel has known was Shimon Bar Kochba who fulfilled all the qualifications required for a probationary assumption including direct paternal descendance from Dovid Hamelech. The by-name בר כוכבא or 'Bar Kochba', Aramaic for "son of a star", was given to Shimon as a reference to a verse in the Torah (Bomidbor 24:17) referring to Moshiach as a כוכב or 'Kochav', a star. It is a messianic sobriquet on account of the belief that Shimon was the Moshiach prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures. However, this changed once he was niftar, when it was understood that he was not who he (and others) proclaimed (him) to be, as Moshiach ben Dovid does not die in the midst of his purpose. In turn, Chazal referred to Shimon as בן כוזבה (Ben Kozevah) or בר כוזיבא (Bar Koziva), the Hebrew כוזבה meaning "falsehood". Shimon was deemed בן כוזבה, "son of a lie" (בר כוזיבא being its Aramaic equivalent). Since a Jew who was niftar cannot be Moshiach in the future, it really does not matter who fulfilled the prophecies the best—there is no partial credit.

I am always pleased with your indepth understanding of the tanakh whenever you come in here...that said I wish to ask a simple question:

Why do you believe the second temple was destroyed? How can you be certain that the history of the hebrews was not plagiarized?

for reference to my train of thought:

51st Psalm of David 16 says:

For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.

what does this imply about the sacrifices of Moses...

 

[DoubleClutch]

I am always pleased with your indepth understanding of the tanakh whenever you come in here...that said I wish to ask a simple question:

Why do you believe the second temple was destroyed? How can you be certain that the history of the hebrews was not plagiarized?

for reference to my train of thought:

51st Psalm of David 16 says:

For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.

what does this imply about the sacrifices of Moses...

If you want my take on it,

Jesus predicted the temple being destroyed when he said “not one stone will he left.... etc. I guess it alludes to the state of the “Jewish” religion at the time and their relationship with God.

And the temple still hasn’t been rebuilt to this day

Jesus in comparison says about himself in John:

Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days” (2:19)

So basically he fills that void or replaces what the temple/sacrifices/gods presence etc.... represents to the Jewish people/Judaism


As for David, that scripture shows how he just had a different personal relationship (understanding) with God which is more comparable and foreshadows how Christianity sees Jesus as a means of forgiveness of Sins regardless of sacrifices or offerings or practices and standards previously set in Judaism religion

That’s how I took it.

I’m pretty sure Jews today pray in the same way seeing how they don’t have the temple to make sacrifices and offerings.

But I could be wrong....

 

[Koichos]

Let me ask you this then, why don’t Muslims call God YHWH if that’s his name (and not a generic translation of the word God) and they claim to worship the same God of Abraham?

Traditional Moslems use the Arabic term 'Allah' (which just means G-d) because that is the language they speak. Likewise, Jews who were raised in Arab lands and spoke Arabic as a lingua franca also referred to Hashem as 'Allah' (אללה in Hebrew transliteration), from the common person to the greatest of sages. Ramba"m, who wrote most of his works in Arabic, often used the term אללה when referring to Hashem. Even until modern times, Jews in Arab lands (e.g., Teimanim) have had an Arabic version of Echod Mi Yodeya, found in the Haggodoh recited at Pesach Seder, with the words "Allah Hu! Allah Hu!" (‏אללה הו! אללה הו!‏). Jews from Arab countries often say the Arabic phrase 'In sha Allah' (אן שא אללה) instead of 'B'ezras Hashem' (בעזרת השם‎), both meaning "G-d willing". אללה just means 'G-d'.

The Arabic term 'Ilah' (إله‎) means 'diety' or 'god'. 'Allah' (الله) includes the definite article 'al', a prefix meaning 'the', which is how it is used in the Qur'an. 'Allah' (الله) shares the same triconsonantal root (Arabic ا.ل.ه is a cognate of Hebrew א.ל.ה) as the Hebrew terms 'Elohim' (אלהים) and 'Eloah' (אלוה), as well as the Aramaic term 'Aloho' (אלה). In principle, Jews and Moslems worship the same G-d, as both Judaism and Islam understand Hashem as an incorporeal, indivisible One; though in practice, the teachings are not always harmonious. Nonetheless, given that Islam is monotheistic, a Jew is permitted to step foot and even daven inside a Mosque—purely Jewish tefilos and minhagim, of course. (Not only is a Jew forbidden from davening inside a church, but he may not so much as step foot inside one).

In any case, Jews do not actually pronounce the Name י-ה-ו-ה. The Hebrew word השם (Hashem) which literally means "the [divine] name" is used as a substitute in daily conversation. Even when davening (praying) or laining (reading from the Torah), the Name י-ה-ו-ה is not pronounced. Instead, we say אדנ-י (Adonoi), which has its own special grammatical construction specifically used for the name of Hashem (קמץ [uppercase T] under the letter אֲדֹנָי] נ]). During the First and Second Temple periods, י-ה-ו-ה (the holiest Name of Hashem) was uttered only by the Koihen Godol (holiest man) on Yom Kippur (holiest day) during and after the recitation of Viduy in the Kodesh Kodashim (holiest place). In daily conversation we say השם, and during religious observance we say אדנ-י; but never do we say י-ה-ו-ה.

One who learns Chumesh (the printed book of Torah with nikkud) will notice that the nikkud (vowel points) for אֲדֹנָ-י and אֱלֹקִים were printed under the consonants י-ה-ו-ה to remind the reader to voice אֲדֹנָ-י or אֱלֹקִים and not attempt to pronounce the Essential Divine Name, י-ה-ו-ה. For example: אֲדֹנָ-י = יְ-הֹ-וָ-ה (When י-ה-ו-ה is pointed as אדנ-י, there is a שווא under the י, a חולם above the ה, and a קמץ under the ו. Note: under the א in אדנ-י is a חטף סגול, but under the י in י-ה-ו-ה is a שווא. This is because a שווא presents itself as a חטף סגול under a guttural [e.g., א]); and אֱלֹקִים = יֱ-הֹ-וִ-ה (This usage is found as a result of י-ה-ו-ה appearing before and after אדנ-י, so as not to repeat אדנ-י where it isn't written this way in the text. We pronounce a standalone י-ה-ו-ה as 'Adonoi'; but אֲדֹנָ-י יֱ-הֹ-וִ-ה becomes 'Adonoi Elokim').

As we see in Shmos 3:15, the Hebrew word for 'forever' ("זה שמי לעלם—This is My Name forever [oilam]") is spelled without the letter ו vov (לעלם; cf. לעולם) such that it can be read l'olem (לעלם, "to conceal"), implying an obligation to conceal the Name of Hashem. Since לעולם is without the letter ו vov, we are to understand it as לעלם "to conceal" so that His Name should not be read as it is written. It is written with the yud י and the hei ה but read with the alef א and the daled ד. That is, the Name of Hashem is written as י-ה-ו-ה but read as אדנ-י. "This is how I shall be mentioned in every generation". The Name י-ה-ו-ה appears to have never been uttered other than אדנ-י, but in the Batai Hamikdosh, the place where Hashem chose to cause His Name to rest, as the Torah says: המקום אשר בחרתי לשכן את שמי.

But if the “gentile nations” learn Hebrew and even many converts grow up Jewish and learn the written/oral law what is the difference?

The Written Torah cannot be kept (regardless of one's efficiency in Biblical Hebrew) without the Oral Torah. The Jewish oral tradition has been transmitted orally from the time of Har Sinai—from Hashem to Moshe Rabeinu, Moshe Rabeinu to Yehoshua, Yehoshua to the Zakeinim (Elders), the Zakeinim to the Nevi'im (Prophets), the Nevi'im to the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah (Men of the Great Assembly), the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah to the Chochumim (Sages), the Chochumim to the Rabonon (Rabbis), the Rabonon to the Talmidim (Students), from one generation to the next to ensure the continuity of the Jewish People. That is Judaism—an unbroken chain of tradition tracing all the way back to Zmon Masan Torasainu (the time of the giving of our Torah), for which we have a timeline (such as who received from who, and in what generation they lived). The greater part of Torah must, and will, remain an oral tradition–a tradition preserved only by the Jew. Whether natural born or convert, only Jews are learned in the Oral Law since only Jews are obligated in Torah.

And there can be many ethnically Hebrew/Jewish people today who don’t know the torah and don’t speak Hebrew or keep the law oral/written

Indeed, most don't. That is why the Torah says שארית ישראל not כלל ישראל, "remnant" not "all". The world we encounter today comports perfectly with what we find in the Jewish Scriptures. There was a faithful remnant of Israel loyal to Hashem in biblical times; there is a faithful remnant of Israel loyal to Hashem today. Even in the time of Eliyohu Hanovi, there were only seven thousand Jews who remained faithful to Hashem, who refused to abandon the Torah and prostrate themselves before Ba'al (Melochim A 19:18). A sizable portion did not keep the Torah; not then, and not now. That is precisely why Hashem labeled the Jewish People "Am Keshei Oref", a stiff-necked people (first given on account of the Golden calf). We stood at Har Sinai and Hashem said לא תעשה לך פסל, "You shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Shmos 20:4). Forty days later we said: ehhh... (ibid. 32:8). Still, this penchant for contentious behavior enabled Judaism to spread forth and give "chossidai u'mois ho'oilom", righteous gentiles, the chance to convert and join the Jewish People.

And there’s also “religious Jews” who think they’re following law but aren’t genuine and have corrupted it and turned it into their own religion like many have done with Christianity

I know you agreeThis is what was happening at some point before Jesus came

Like he said, he came for the lost sheep.

Even though god gave Jews only the written law and oral traditions, who’s to say that they could keep it as intended

Hashem tells us explicitly that we are able to keep the Torah as intended (D'vorim 30:11-14), as we have been doing for the last 3,332 years—the observant among us, at least. When Hashem gave the mitzvos to the Jewish People, he did this so that Klal Yisroel should live and not perish. The Torah was given in such a way that it could be fulfilled without having to ascend to heaven to learn it (D'vorim 30:12). Those who accepted and received the Torah knew clearly what was required of them. Hashem did not instruct them a little, and leave out a little, so that they should stumble and toil in vain. Yeshayohu summed this up beautifully: "I did not speak in secret, in a place of darkness; I did not say to the seed of Yaakov, `Seek Me, in vain'; I, Hashem, Who foretell reliably, declare things that are upright".

The way I see it, the oral and written law/traditions applied to a time before Jesus

The eternality of the Torah and its mitzvos is made very clear in Torah (B'midbor 15:22-23; D'vorim 4:2, 5:26, 29:28).

Jesus ushered in a new era you might see it as the “gentiles” era but really it’s the kingdom or Messiah era cause really he is the Messiah whether all Jews accepted him or not.

When Moshiach arrives, Jewry will accept him (Hoshea 3:5).

 

[Koichos]

I am always pleased with your indepth understanding of the tanakh whenever you come in here...that said I wish to ask a simple question:

Why do you believe the second temple was destroyed?

We actually find the answer(s) to this in Tenach itself which foretells the destruction of the second Bais Hamikdosh. The prophets foretold that the second Bais Hamikdosh would be destroyed "because of you" (Michoh 3:12). Michoh lived roughly 800 years prior. Michoh lived in the time of Yeshayohu and Hoshea in the First Temple period. They lived while the First Temple was standing, but prophesied that the Temple Mount would soon be utter desolation, similar to that of a forest. During the Second Temple period the Bais Hamikdosh was rife with sinas chinom (senseless hatred), one Jew against another, among other issues—dayanim judging for bribery, koihanim teaching for hire, neviyim prophesying for money, and Jewry taking Hashem for granted, expecting His protection should evil befall them—thereby leading to the destruction of the Second Temple (Michoh 3:9-12). This term 'sinom chinom' vis-à-vis the Temple's destruction is brought down by Chaza"l, our Sages of blessed memory. R' Yishmoel ben Elisha, a first-century Tanna, foretold that the children of Yishmoel (the Arabs) would eventually construct a building upon the Temple Mount following the Romans' destruction of the Bais Hamikdosh (Pirkay D'Rabbi Eliezer 30:12). Which building is this? This is the 'Dome of the Rock' which stands on the Temple Mount Today.

The destruction of the second Bais Hamikdosh is synonymous with the destruction of Yerusholoyim. There is a notable passage in Bavli where eight statements are given: R' Nachmani ben Kaylil (Abaye) says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the desecration of Shabbes; R' Abahu says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of its Jews intentionally omitting recitation of the Shma twice a day, morning and evening; R' Hamnuno says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of obstructing schoolchildren from learning Torah; R' Ulla says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the lack of shame among the people; R' Yitzchok Napacha says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the prominent sages of their generation being equated as opposed to properly valued; R' Amram bar R' Shimon says that R' Shimon bar Abba says that R' Chanina bar Chama says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the people not chastening one another; R' Yehuda Hanasi says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the belittlement of talmiday chochumim (Torah scholars); R' Abba ben Yosef bar Chama (Rava) says Yerusholoyim was destroyed on account of the 'emunah' (faith) of men ceasing therein (perhaps the root cause of the seven aforementioned). Elsewhere, in Bavli and Yerushalmi, 'sinas chinom' is mentioned.

How can you be certain that the history of the hebrews was not plagiarized?

Jews have preserved the course of tradition going all the way back through time to Moshe at Har Sinai. We know who received the tradition from who, and in what generation they lived. In order to know for sure that the Torah that we have today is what we got from the time of Sinai, the only way to have it is to have it oral. Thus in order to ensure the continuity of the Jewish People, it had to be transmitted orally, from one generation to the next. As Hashem tells us in Tenach, the greater part of Torah was not written down lest Israel be counted the same as gentiles. Moreover, regarding the consistency of Sifrei Torah (Handwritten Hebrew Torah Scrolls), there is not a single word pronounced differently in ANY valid Saifer Torah anywhere in the world; neither is there a single non-Jewish community on this planet whose children are nurtured to study and breathe Loshon Hakoidesh. Wherever you find a community fluent in Biblical Hebrew, you will find the Jewish People; and no other community can you go to learn about the various laws as given in the ancient times.

All Sifrei Torah (handwritten Hebrew Torah Scrolls) and Chomaish Magilos (handwritten scrolls of Shir Hashirim, Rus, Esther, Koheless and Eichoh) as well as the rest of Neviyim and Kesuvim are meticulously scribed by Jewish scribal families whose tradition is passed from one generation to the next—Jewish scribes known as sofrim. The Torah was written down finally at the end of the forty years in the midbor (desert), in the last month of Moshe Rabeinu's life. In fact, he finished 13 Sifrei Torah: one for each shevet (tribe) and one for the Aron Koidesh (Holy Ark). The Jewish People have carefully preserved the Torah and all the traditions surrounding it. Without the scribes, not a single word in the Torah makes sense. Throughout the four corners of the earth, each and every Saifer Torah in existence can only be attributed to the scribes of one nation—Am Yisroel. Without the Jewish Oral Tradition there would be no Torah, and no Na"Ch. All translators rely upon our oral tradition and confirm that the Jews have the true tradition from Moshe Rabeinu and the Prophets.

for reference to my train of thought:

51st Psalm of David 16 says:

For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.

T'hilim 51 discusses Dovid Hamelech taking accountability and asking Hashem for forgiveness for the events that took place between himself, Bas-Sheva, and Uriya Hachiti. In short, Dovid Hamelech knew he was to have a son through Bas Sheva, so when he saw her, he considered this a sign for him to take her now. However, he took his 'beshert' too early. In the days of yore, when Jewish men went to war, they gave their wives 'gitin' (divorce documents) which they rescinded if and when they came back alive, in order to prevent an 'agunoh' situation should they be missing in action. 'Agunoh' means "chained"; in the absence of a 'get' (divorce document), a wife is still technically married (chained) to her husband and cannot remarry. Bas-Sheva was technically divorced. Still, it was always expected that the husband would return from war and re-marry his wife, therefore this was not a great situation nevertheless. This means that Dovid's actions were technically not ni'uf (adultery), but it was a me'esser zakh (not a good thing), particularly for someone of his caliber.

Yes, Dovid Hamelech was permitted to take Bas-Sheva, but given his level Hashem was displeased. And yes, Dovid was permitted to have Uriya Hachiti killed because he was a moired bemolchus (one who rebels against the king) and thus chiuv misa (liable for death). But he still did something very wrong, for which Nosson (Nathan) gave him strong mussar (moral reproof) in Shmuel B 12. Dovid pleads for forgiveness by doing tshuva (repentance) and Hashem vindicates him. This is important to note because korbonos (sin offerings) atone for unintentional sin, as the Torah clearly writes (Voyikroh 4:1-3, 5:15). (Now, it is brought down in our oral tradition that Dovid did not actually make an aveira (sin) according to the Torah due to Bas-Sheva's 'get', and Uriya being 'moired bemolchus': "Kul ho'oimeir Dovid choto einoi elo toi'eh". But the point remains: Dovid did NOT try to justify his actions as we see in Tenach.) T'hilim 51:18 (:16 in Xian texts) is in the context of Dovid's actions as discussed above–actions which cannot be expiated by korbonos, but rather by tshuva.

what does this imply about the sacrifices of Moses...

In T'hilim 51 Dovid Hamelech is speaking about the situation with Bas-Sheva and Uriya Hachiti. Dovid's statement in verse 18 accords with the laws that are given in the Torah, as korbonos (animal sacrifices) are not brought for willful actions.