The Little Known Biblical Curse of Egypt by Isaiah

[DoubleClutch]

He should know that Xianity began as an apikursus of Judaism, and that it is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to practice it. Xianity is man's effort to create G-d in his image; Judaism is Hashem's successful effort to create man in His image. Two opposite directions. What does he want: Eisuv or Yaakov? The Torah is the only true and authentic source of instruction and enlightenment from Hashem. All other forms of religion and spiritual and moral instruction are false or at least misleading. Any system other than Judaism is foreign to the Torah. Xianity chews the cud but does not have a cleft hoof; Islam has a cleft hoof but does not chew the cud. Israel and her gair are kosher. I add my birchos hedyit that he have the da'as and saichel to be choizer bi'tshuvo bi'm'hairo and rejoin the fold of our ancestors.

We are not Jews because of our belief, we are Jews because of our mothers. Being a Jew means having a Jewish mother OR a kosher conversion, the latter requiring gairus ol p din Torah, conversion according to Torah law. A person born to a Jewish mother is always considered a Jew, even if he 'converts' to another religion. A person who was born to a Jewish mother but 'converts' to another religion would still be a Jew—an apikurus or apostate, perhaps, a Jew in rebellion, but a Jew nevertheless—and still just as obligated to keep Hashem's mitzvos as any of his frum brethren. If you were born a Jew, you will die a Jew. So, too, a gair or gioress, a convert; once he or she becomes a Jew, he or she will die a Jew. Gair sh'nisgaiyer k'kuton sh'noilad domi ("One who converts is like a newborn child").

And that neshuma can then legitimately say at Pesach Seder: "Thank you for taking my ancestors out of Egypt." Or, more appropriately, as we recite from the Haggadah: "B'chul door vo'door, chiav odom lir'ois eis atzmoi, k'ilu hu yotzo mi'Mitzroyim—In every generation, one must consider himself as if he personally was liberated from Egypt." Indeed, even if that convert is Egyptian. Converts are considered to be the spiritual descendants of Avrohom Oveenu and Sorah Imeinu, Avrohom being the very first convert. Hence the reason on Halochic documents a gair/gioress is noted as ben/bas Avrohom Oveenu. The ancestors of the neshuma the convert receives were thus taken out of Egypt. It is a Jewish soul, with a Jewish heritage, with a Jewish background, with Jewish memory—it's a complete Jew.


Moshiach is a human being with two biological parents, both Jewish, the father a direct paternal descendant of Judah by way of Dovid and Shlomo. Moshiach is not a god or a demi-god or a man-god.


The fact of the matter is Yoshke was never accepted as Moshiach by all, not even by most, and certainly not by those who carefully preserved Tenach and all the traditions surrounding it.


The Xian idea of the messiah is closer to the pagan notion of a dying/saving god than to the Jewish understanding of Moshiach. When Xians say "messiah" they don't mean what we do (anointed king); they mean "savior", which is completely different. Hashem makes it clear that aside from Him there is no savior (Yeshayohu 43:11, 45:21; Hoshea 13:4). Hashem has no physical form (D'vorim 4:15), and He is not a man nor a son of man (B'midbor 23:19; Shmuel A 15:29; Hoshea 11:9). He has no body, nor power of the body; if He were to be a body then He would be like any other body and would not be G-d. Torah explicitly states that Hashem is incorporeal, He is One (D'vorim 6:4, from which the Shema–the flagship statement of Jewish monotheistic faith–is derived). For something to exist physically, it necessarily follows that there can be two or more of it. By saying Hashem is One, we are denying that there is any multiplicity of Him. According to Torah, G-d is Infinite, everywhere at all times. Thus says Dovid Hamelech: "Where can I escape from Your spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; if I descend to the netherworld, behold, You are there." According to the Xian text, Yoshke is not in the tomb. Since he is not in the tomb he is not everywhere. Since he is not everywhere he is not G-d.


The Xian narrative of Moshiach is antithetical to the very foundation of Moshiach, the Jewish Scriptures. The 'Old Testament' is nothing more than a corrupted version of Torah and Nach the Jews read, repackaged in Xtological wrap to insert Yoshke into the text.


It is forbidden for a Jew to calculate the specific date of Moshiach's arrival. On the one hand, Chaza"l, our sages of blessed memory, talk about Nisan as the month of geula, redemption (Nisan being the month of Yetzius Mitzroyim, the Exodus of Egypt); on the other, one of the fundamental principles of Jewish faith as set out by the Ramba"m in his Shlosha Asar Ikkarim, 13 Principles of Faith, is that a Jew is to wait for Moshiach every single day. The short answer is: Moshiach can come any day of the year, except of course on Shabbes and Yom Tov (even on Erev Shabbes he won't come). Nonetheless, there are certain times/months in the Jewish Calendar that are more auspicious than others, and apropos of Moshiach ben Dovid, the heralder of the ultimate geula, the month of Nisan is certainly that. While we may currently be in what's called in Aramaic, ikveso d'moshicho or "on the heels [footsteps] of the Moshiach", geula is a process; just as Noach spent 120 years building the ark, the geula which began again in Israel in 1948 is just the beginning of the process.

Why do Muslims believe in Jesus? And why is he mentioned in the Quran more than any biblical figure?

 

[Everythingg]

You still gotta explain how the Israelite/Hebrew people of the Bible got from North Africa/Middle East region to the America’s. And when they left

I dont have to explain that when I've already shown you that the original belief they held was that the promised land wasnt in the middle east, but was in AMERICA. So what really needs to be explained is why did the idea of where the promised land change from then to now?

 

[Koichos]

Why do Muslims believe in Jesus? And why is he mentioned in the Quran more than any biblical figure?

What Moslems believe is irrelevant. The concept of Moshiach ben Dovid בב"א is rooted in Tenach, the Jewish Scriptures, not the New Testament or the Quran.

The only nation who, as a nation, rejects Yoshke, is the very nation who witnessed the revelation at Har Sinai 3,331 years ago (3,332 come shvuos this week).

 

[DoubleClutch]

What Moslems believe is irrelevant. The concept of Moshiach ben Dovid בב"א is rooted in Tenach, the Jewish Scriptures, not the New Testament or the Quran.

The only nation who, as a nation, rejects Yoshke, is the very nation who witnessed the revelation at Har Sinai 3,331 years ago (3,332 come shvuos this week).

The people from 3k years ago aren’t alive today and weren't when Jesus lived. To put it in perspective of religion today (the past 2000 years) most people on alive during Jesus time and ever since validate him as being nothing less than a good Jewish man and respect him......Except for a small minority of Jews who reject any and everything good about him.

If I’m choosing between 2 extremes (Messiah or Liar/Blasphemer/False Messiah),

Logically that fact alone would make me more inclined to believe historically in the Jesus of Christianity instead of how Jews see him today.

 

[Koichos]

The people from 3k years ago aren’t alive today and weren't when Jesus lived.

The point was to highlight the fact that the only nations adhering to the notion that Yoshke is Moshiach are the nations who had nothing to do with Masan Torah OR the preservation of Torah and Nach and all the traditions surrounding it. There is not a single non-Jewish community on this planet whose children are reared to learn, study, and breathe Loshon Hakodesh, the language of Tenach. Wherever you find a community fluent in Biblical Hebrew, you will find the Jewish People. All Sifrei Torah (handwritten Hebrew Torah scrolls) and Chomaish Magillos (handwritten scrolls of Shir HaShirim, Ruth, Esther, Koheless and Eichoh) as well as the rest of Tenach are scribed specifically by Jewish scribal families whose tradition is passed from one generation to the next - scribes known as sofrim. This is true globally, throughout the four corners of the earth. Each and every Saifer Torah in existence can only be attributed to the scribes of one nation, Israel. Without the Jewish People, the scribes in particular, there would be no Tenach, and thus no understanding of Moshiach. Xians and Moslems can fight tooth and nail over their belief in Yoshke, but the fact of the matter is the only nation in the world who is actually raised to study the Jewish Scriptures in its original language(s), the Jews, say no, he DOESN'T fulfill the messianic prophecies.

To put it in perspective of religion today (the past 2000 years) most people on alive during Jesus time and ever since validate him as being nothing less than a good Jewish man and respect him......Except for a small minority of Jews who reject any and everything good about him.

That's just not true. A Jew's neshuma is holy and his guf is holy, no matter what he does. We may reject the claims of Yoshke as Moshiach or l'hovdil G-d incarnate, but he's a Jew nonetheless.

If I’m choosing between 2 extremes (Messiah or Liar/Blasphemer/False Messiah),

Logically that fact alone would make me more inclined to believe historically in the Jesus of Christianity instead of how Jews see him today.

How we view him today is how we viewed him then. The view is certainly not positive, but it's not necessarily negative, either. For many, it's simply a matter of indifference.

 

[MMS]

The coli is blessed to have people still contemplating god and true history

 

[MMS]

What Moslems believe is irrelevant. The concept of Moshiach ben Dovid בב"א is rooted in Tenach, the Jewish Scriptures, not the New Testament or the Quran.

The only nation who, as a nation, rejects Yoshke, is the very nation who witnessed the revelation at Har Sinai 3,331 years ago (3,332 come shvuos this week).

I recognized in my own study that to be Jewish is paradoxical when looking at Jesus or any other Messianic figure...the true law of the OT clearly states what it states

yet in the presence of men of divinity or writings of them a certain rejection always has to take place I'm torn because of my views of Messianic figures

from my perspective the spirit of god is upon many people yet not all are receptive. Those that are become prophets for their people...despite that they are still human and fallible to sin.

Jesus and maybe Krishna are the only historical religious figures that have ever been claimed as sinless and true aspects of the divine.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I recognized in my own study that to be Jewish is paradoxical when looking at Jesus or any other Messianic figure...the true law of the OT clearly states what it states

yet in the presence of men of divinity or writings of them a certain rejection always has to take place I'm torn because of my views of Messianic figures

from my perspective the spirit of god is upon many people yet not all are receptive. Those that are become prophets for their people...despite that they are still human and fallible to sin.

Jesus and maybe Krishna are the only historical religious figures that have ever been claimed as sinless and true aspects of the divine.

what do you mean by this. And can you give some examples?

I would not compare Krishna to Jesus like that.

 

[DoubleClutch]

The point was to highlight the fact that the only nations adhering to the notion that Yoshke is Moshiach are the nations who had nothing to do with Masan Torah OR the preservation of Torah and Nach and all the traditions surrounding it. There is not a single non-Jewish community on this planet whose children are reared to learn, study, and breathe Loshon Hakodesh, the language of Tenach. Wherever you find a community fluent in Biblical Hebrew, you will find the Jewish People. All Sifrei Torah (handwritten Hebrew Torah scrolls) and Chomaish Magillos (handwritten scrolls of Shir HaShirim, Ruth, Esther, Koheless and Eichoh) as well as the rest of Tenach are scribed specifically by Jewish scribal families whose tradition is passed from one generation to the next - scribes known as sofrim. This is true globally, throughout the four corners of the earth. Each and every Saifer Torah in existence can only be attributed to the scribes of one nation, Israel. Without the Jewish People, the scribes in particular, there would be no Tenach, and thus no understanding of Moshiach. Xians and Moslems can fight tooth and nail over their belief in Yoshke, but the fact of the matter is the only nation in the world who is actually raised to study the Jewish Scriptures in its original language(s), the Jews, say no, he DOESN'T fulfill the messianic prophecies.


That's just not true. A Jew's neshuma is holy and his guf is holy, no matter what he does. We may reject the claims of Yoshke as Moshiach or l'hovdil G-d incarnate, but he's a Jew nonetheless.


How we view him today is how we viewed him then. The view is certainly not positive, but it's not necessarily negative, either. For many, it's simply a matter of indifference.

I get what you’re saying but I think you’re letting your “Jewishness” cloud your views and shape your perspective on Christianity and Jesus being accepted by so many people.

I know it’s just a hard thing to accept or comprehend probably as much now as 2000 years ago

But you shouldn’t look at Christianity like a new religion, opposition to Judaism a contradiction of to or abandonment of your Jewish faith/history/culture/teachings etc...

Remember Christianity requires belief in everything in Judaism

Christians are just as Jewish as you technically by faith

But you seem to want to claim a monopoly on the Jewish religion as if it gives you more authority to say who is the messiah or not

But what Jesus did was bring the religion to anyone who came to him and despite what system the religious leaders at the time

And that’s a big part of what Jesus was about and came to do.

The Jewish Leaders (Pharisees & Sadducees ) priests and Rabbis obviously had power and didn’t see things that way and Jesus was a threat

It became a movement more for non Jews ultimately more than a strictly a Jewish “chosen people” religion of the Old Testament

Still Christians today must believe in much more (Old Testament stories, prophets, etc....) along with accepting Jesus as messiah

But all Jewish people needed to do was accept Jesus as the messiah

It’s pretty black and white.

In that way there’s no getting around it, he either is or isn’t. That’s two extremes. Choosing either is what defines all 3 major religions

Like I said, what makes you any different than Muslims. Both you don’t believe in Jesus as the messiah.

But I feel like for Jews today it’s harder to believe in Jesus because culturally they gotta sacrifice a portion of their “Jewishness” and much of the religious practices they’re holding on to for generations..... or at least change their way of thinking And most can’t do this because it requires changing their entire way of life

I don’t wanna say Orthodox Jews religion can make them be an entitled people cause technically the God of the Bible says they are “the chosen people”

But to extend that “chosen people” status and all the biblical blessings to everyone who believes in Jesus has to be a hard pill to swallow especially when Jewish people still see themselves as a
People who have suffered and been oppressed for their religion and culture

 

[MMS]

what do you mean by this. And can you give some examples?

I would not compare Krishna to Jesus like that.

Its hard to define tbh, but lets just say I have faith in this concept

Im not saying they are the same person

yet at the same time you cant look at the world completely and utterly from one culture's lens. ..for example: In India reincarnation is the prevailing belief. This profoundly changes the way they see religion and God (Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva etc)

That's the key context that makes it hard to interpret their views. You have to fully accept that concept before their stories make any sense

At the same time I have no idea if their "yugas" are true at all only thing I know is Vedic texts technically predate Jewish texts by a great deal largely due to the fact India has never really been conquered...

by that same notion, the ancient religion of the Chinese should also predate as well (upheld by old chinese emperors going back to Shang dynasty)

 

[DoubleClutch]

Its hard to define tbh, but lets just say I have faith in this concept

Im not saying they are the same person

yet at the same time you cant look at the world completely and utterly from one culture's lens. ..for example: In India reincarnation is the prevailing belief. This profoundly changes the way they see religion and God (Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva etc)

That's the key context that makes it hard to interpret their views. You have to fully accept that concept before their stories make any sense

At the same time I have no idea if their "yugas" are true at all only thing I know is Vedic texts technically predate Jewish texts by a great deal largely due to the fact India has never really been conquered...

by that same notion, the ancient religion of the Chinese should also predate as well (upheld by old chinese emperors going back to Shang dynasty)

True but how can you believe in one faith and still be distracted by another that contradicts it.

All these ancient religions saying almost the same thing cause they obviously come from the same source.

But you don’t believe in every religion do you?

The newest major world religion, Islam says a lot about Jesus in the Quran but has nothing to say about Yugas.

I don’t blame you for not believing in Yugas

No offense if you are Indian or Hindu but I don’t expect Greeks today to believe in Greek gods either

 

[MMS]

True but how can you believe in one faith and still be distracted by another that contradicts it.

All these ancient religions saying almost the same thing cause they obviously come from the same source.

But you don’t believe in every religion do you?

The newest major world religion, Islam says a lot about Jesus in the Quran but has nothing to say about Yugas.

I don’t blame you for not believing in Yugas

No offense if you are Indian or Hindu but I don’t expect Greeks today to believe in Greek gods either

its hard to say, what I do know is that God judges our hearts and its a language that doesnt need symbols or syllables

funny thing is, in ancient times vowels were considered sacred its interesting to consider how different our overly-rational perspectives are compared to ancient peoples

 

[DoubleClutch]

its hard to say, what I do know is that God judges our hearts and its a language that doesnt need symbols or syllables

funny thing is, in ancient times vowels were considered sacred its interesting to consider how different our overly-rational perspectives are compared to ancient peoples

Yea I definitely cant speak for God on behalf of any mans individual beliefs or Judge anybody. All I know is what’s most logical and true based off what we have to debate off.

Also like you said earlier “It’s hard to define” I can’t make you see things how I do “let’s just say I have faith in this concept” based on my life experiences.

I don’t claim to know everything But I can call out lies and contradictions very easy when it’s presented to me.

 

[MMS]

Yea I definitely cant speak for God on behalf of any mans individual beliefs or Judge anybody. All I know is what’s most logical and true based off what we have to debate off.

Also like you said earlier “It’s hard to define” I can’t make you see things how I do “let’s just say I have faith in this concept” based on my life experiences.

I don’t claim to know everything But I can call out lies and contradictions very easy when it’s presented to me.

I like Orthodox Christians perspective on it as "Divine mysteries"

basically says to catholics/protestants that somethings about God cannot be contemplated or understood. Basically a rejection to western perception of contemplation

For perspective, their churches are almost entirely musical. No pretense of opinion etc just worship and ritualized prayer

 

[DoubleClutch]

I like Orthodox Christians perspective on it as "Divine mysteries"

basically says to catholics/protestants that somethings about God cannot be contemplated or understood. Basically a rejection to western perception of contemplation

For perspective, their churches are almost entirely musical. No pretense of opinion etc just worship and ritualized prayer

It’s one thing to study religions or go to church and another to actually have faith and believe in something greater.

Concerning religion, It’s sounds like you’re always on the outside looking in.

If you (or anybody) can’t understand or contemplate God for yourself then maybe you’re lost or thinking too hard.

But nobody can make you see things how they see it