The Little Known Biblical Curse of Egypt by Isaiah

MMS

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@Koios another thing I noticed is a "second" tetragrammaton in plain sight

Ankh

Amun
Nun
Kek
Heqet

The Hermepolitan Ogdoad...now compare that to the name of the God of the Shasu (Midianites and Kenites of the borderlands)

YHW

YAH-HU in Egyptian phonetically

My biggest double-take is who those deities/names represent in Egyptian by contrast...another thing that I noticed is almost all of the Egyptian gods that appear to start with A really start with J (Yodh)

Aten = Jtn
Amun = Jmn
Iah = Jh
Djehuti = djwhty

The J sign was pronounced as "YAH" So in truth the first three of those should be pronounced:

YAH-TEN
YAH-MUN
YAH

Whereas the "Jeh" sound actually comes from "dj" making who we call "Thoth" really JE-HU-TY
 
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DoubleClutch

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We don't hate Yoshke, we simply reject the notion that he's the Moshiach according to his lack of fulfillment of any messianic prophecies in Tenach.

Back during Jesus time Many false Jewish messiahs came and went (and continue even today). They get exposed and fail. They have no impact on anyone other than those they deceive. After time nobody remembers them.

When Jesus came Jewish people respected him, followed him, and more believed him to be who he said he is and his movement grew and exist to this day.

His impact and influence is greater than any man whether he is seen as the messiah, son of god, god in flesh, etc...

Religiously speaking, if your God (the same God Jesus believed in and called his father) allowed all this to happen and you don’t believe in Jesus as a Jew, you have some explaining to do.:manny:
 
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CopiousX

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Well yes and no. Egypt can mean "bondage" BUT there was a literal nation of "Egypt". And it should go without saying, that it wasnt called "Egypt"either. This LITERAL nation that the bible talks about was here. And the events of the bible happened here (in the Americas). Thats why they cant find any artifacts over in the middle east...

And no sir Im not. Since I didnt see Moses, David or anyone like that label their beliefs, I choose not to as well :hubie:
Where exactly is here? :patrice: a state? Or a specific country?
 

CopiousX

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I think I mentioned that my knowledge comes from actual literature. That was simply something I found right quick on the internet to point things out to people who don’t want to read actual literature from Diop John Henrik Clarke. Dr Ben. But he mentions that he is only doing it to help black people wake up. I am not a follower of him lol. I am an actual anthropologist And it’s my job to travel the world to learn about history. And study historical artifacts. You can not point out a truth which does not exist outside of the actual book you read.
Wow. :ohhh:Just wow.
You are doing God's work if you are an actual anthropologist in-the-field. :myman:


Both Clarke and Diop said we needed first hand accounts and research of our own, especially in light of the funny-business cacs did with egyptologists, biologists, and archeologists in the 19th and 20th century. On that note, I personally believe the next frontier of funny-business will be genetics. Because there aren't too many black folk in that discipline, even our info must come from them. I see them separating us once more just like they did in the "negroid" skull-size psuedoscience era.

This may be a bit personal, but what pushed you into the field? Do you specialize in cultural,biological, or linguistic anthropology? I know y'alls research is expensive with trips and all . As a black person, how do you manage to get funding for non-conforming study?

Also plenty of Gods and Godesses in Indian culture and many more that predate The Old Testament and have literally the same exact story. Without Egypt, you don’t have the story of the Israelites. Without that.. you have no bible.

Deep inside i think we all realize this. Would love to t-travel back to 1500BC ( with a lifetime supply of penicillin) and watch it all unfold.
 

Everythingg

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Where exactly is here? :patrice: a state? Or a specific country?

Cacs (US Senator Elijah Middlebrook Haines for example) said they found "Indians" in Central/South America with Israelite customs So somewhere in between there I'd assume is where they found the holy land...
 

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Cacs (US Senator Elijah Middlebrook Haines for example) said they found "Indians" in Central/South America with Israelite customs So somewhere in between there I'd assume is where they found the holy land...

You still gotta explain how the Israelite/Hebrew people of the Bible got from North Africa/Middle East region to the America’s. And when they left
 

The Fade

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Do the vedas and Egypt intersect? I just went down a huge rabbit hole with the Sri yankra and pyramids built along the golden ratio.

And the whole Sheba coming from the south to meet Solomon thing has a double meaning

I also Read how Pythagoras and Plato went to Egypt/Memphis’ and Kerala and just watered down the math teachings and became vegetarians after being at those places.

Also.. what is the significance of Nommo/Nun/Nunu?
 
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Koichos

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there were only habiru aka laborers and people without property
It is brought down by R' Yosef Hertz (in his commentary on the Chumesh) that when the Torah says "...ויקם מלך חדש על מצרים" (Shmois 1:8) it is a reference to the New Kingdom.

Similarly, Ibn Ezra in his commentary on Shmois 1:8 explains:
"ויקם מלך חדש: פירושו כמשמעו, בלא תוספת, שלא היה מזרע המלוכה. על כן כתיב: "ויקם" כמו: "כי הקים בני את עבדי

And a new king arose: its explanation is as its simple indication, with no addition, that he [the new king] was not from the descendants of the [previous] dynasty; for it is written "ויקם", just as in "כי הקים בני את עבדי".

The reference of "כי הקים בני את עבדי" is from Shmuel A 22:8, the reference being Dovid (Yehudah), who was not of the dynasty of Shaul (Binyomin). It is not clear whether Ibn Ezra was aware of the Hyksos and the transition between Egypt's Second Intermediate Period (when Hyksos were in power) and the New Kingdom (when the Hyksos were removed from power), though this seems to be the implication. Moreover, R' Yosef Hertz further explains that when Yosef HaTzadik, Yaakov Oveenu and the rest of Bnai Yisroel descended to מצרים, the rulers were the Hyksos kings; and that when the Torah says "..ויקם מלך חדש על מצרים" - "And a new king arose.." (Shmois 1:8), that is a reference to the New Kingdom which was no longer under foreign rule. He continues that we, Bnai Yisroel, as high-ranking members of the Hyksos aristocracy, were conquered and enslaved and refers to historical documents from individual Pharaohs about 'Apiru' (עברי in Hebrew) being used to build monuments. Like the Hebrew עברי, the Egyptian 'Apiru' begins with a pharyngeal/guttural ע; and we know that the Hebrew letters ב and פ (the second letters of עברי and 'Apiru', respectively) have a linguistic connection. For a contemporary example, note how, when transliterated using Hebrew characters, the Arabic بَهْلَوِيّ) בהלאוי) becomes Persian پهلوی) פהלאוי).

Over the centuries many have looked to identify which kings were in power in Egypt during Bnai Yisroel's sojournment (and especially during their Yetzius Mitzroyim), recognizing that Torah itself refrains from using official titularies. In Torah, just as every ruler of Amaleik was called Agag, so, every ruler of Egypt was called Paro and every ruler of Philistia was called Avimelech. According to Toras HaSod, the esoteric or mystical parts of Torah, Paro represents a serpent who sits in the Nile and says "I created myself and this river" (Zohar II, 34a (Bo 34a)). This idea comes from a prophecy found in Tenach (Ezk. 29:3) where Paro says this. But the Paro in the prophecy in the nevi'im is referring to a later Paro, the one that Nevuchadnetzer would destroy. When no name is given, the message and meaning conveyed in the story can be applied to all generations. Toras HaSod lumps all the Paros' characteristics together, for Paro represents this idea. If Torah were to refer to Paro by his/their name(s), Scripture would be saying that this Paro was unique and distinct from that Paro, hence the reason all Paros in Torah are just called Paro as they all share spiritual characteristics. Perhaps one could use this idea (that all Paros referenced in the Torah share spiritual characteristics) to explain the source for the medrash that Paro deified himself.
 
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Koichos

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bible genealogies put it somewhere between 6000-10000 years old
According to Jewish Tradition, based on genealogies found in the Torah, it is currently 5780, a count based on the creation of Odom (so 5780 years from Odom). Any time before Odom is considered irrelevant. Time starts, as we know it, from the 6th day of creation, on 1 Tishrei, the day Odom and Chava were created. 25 Elul (day 1) is the anniversary of creation. But the reason we celebrate the first day of creation (Rosh Hashanah) really on 1 Tishrei (day 6), is because that is when Hashem created Odom and thus when time began from man's perspective. It is interesting to note that only by using the Jewish Calendar can holidays like Pesach be observed, as the Torah commands that Pesach MUST come out in the springtime. However, this does not work using the secular calendar. Pesach is the anchor of the Jewish Calendar both as the first month (Nisan), and the indicator for leap years (Adar I). Setting the Jewish Calendar is an intrinsic part of the Jewish holidays. Therefore, we intercalate approximately 7 times every 19 years so that it falls in the springtime.
 
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Koichos

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Back during Jesus time Many false Jewish messiahs came and went (and continue even today). They get exposed and fail. They have no impact on anyone other than those they deceive. After time nobody remembers them.

When Jesus came Jewish people respected him, followed him, and more believed him to be who he said he is and his movement grew and exist to this day.

His impact and influence is greater than any man whether he is seen as the messiah, son of god, god in flesh, etc...

Religiously speaking, if your God (the same God Jesus believed in and called his father) allowed all this to happen and you don’t believe in Jesus as a Jew, you have some explaining to do.:manny:
Jews have known for two millennia that Yoshke could not possibly have been the Moshiach. What the messianic minority believe is not indicative of, nor has any bearing on, the klal. The number of adherents is irrelevant; the claim that Yoshke is Moshiach is no stronger than that of Shimon Bar Kochba, Shabsai Tzvi, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, or any of the tens of Jews throughout Jewish history who thought they were (or whom their talmidim thought they were) Moshiach. The proof is in the doing. In the shemona esrei tefilla recited three times daily, we daven for all of the scriptural elements of the coming of Moshiach ben Dovid. As evidenced by the Jewish Scriptures, Yoshke hasn't fulfilled those prophecies. And he's dead now. Judaism for millennia has held death to be a breach of contract (as is seen most prominently in the case of Bar Kochba). Since Yoshke obviously wasn't the Moshiach, and since somebody who was niftar can not be the Moshiach in the future, it really doesn't matter whether he fulfilled the prophecies the best (he didn't); there is no partial credit. It is clear to Am Yisroel, the only nation who can actually open up a Saifer Torah and read the Hebrew text for themselves, that the sure signs of Moshiach's arrival have yet to come to pass. Moshiach and the Messianic Era lie in our era or in a future era, not in the past.

Moshiach, the Jewish Messiah, is a concept wholly and totally derived from, and dependent on, the Jewish Scriptures. Thus, for all and any information on the Jewish Messiah, one can only depend on Tenach, the Jewish Scriptures. The Hebrew word משיח or 'Moshiach' appears in Tenach 39 times. Not ONCE does it refer to Moshiach Tzidkainu, the scion of Dovid Hamelech. משיח simply means "anointed". Dovid was a משיח (anointed) during his time (Shmuel B 23:1); so, too, Shaul, whom Dovid succeeded (Shmuel A 24:11). Even Cyrus of Persia, a gentile, he who gave the decree by way of Hashem for the Jews' return from Bavel to Yerusholoyim to rebuild the Bais Hamikdosh, is referred to as a משיח:

"...כה אמר ה' למשיחו לכורש—Ko Omar Hashem l'Mashicho l'Koresh...—Thus said Hashem to Cyrus, His anointed one... (Yeshayohu 45:1)"

In Tenach there is no significance to the Hebrew word משיח in relation to the House of Dovid. It is a later rabbinic concept to refer to the messiah as משיח or 'Moshiach'. The reason Jews refer to the messiah as משיח is simply because he will be the anointed king.

There are 10 basic aspects required of Moshiach:
1) Moshiach must be Jewish (D'vorim 17:15), from the tribe of Judah (B'raishis 49:10), and a direct male descendant of Dovid Hamelech (Yeshayohu 11:1; Yirmeyohu 23:5-6; Shmuel B 7:16; T'hilim 89:36-38) by way of his son Shlomo (D.H A 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6); for the Torah restricts tribal affiliation and succession to paternal descendants only, as explicitly stated in B'midbor 1:2, 1:18, and Ezra 2:59.

2) Of Moshiach it is said: "The spirit of Hashem will rest upon him; a spirit of wisdom and understanding, a spirit of counsel and might, a spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Hashem." (Yeshayohu 11:2)

3) Moshiach will come AFTER B'nai Yisroel will sit solitary for many days without king and without prince and without sacrifice [of the Bais Hamikdosh] (Hoshea 3:4-5)

4) The Bais Hamikdosh in Yerusholoyim will be rebuilt to stand forevermore after Moshiach comes (Yechezkel 37:26-28), and its services will be re-established (Yirmeyohu 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Eretz Yisroel and establish Torah Law as the law of the land (Yirmeyohu 33:15).

5) All the exiles of Klal Yisroel will be restored from all the corners of the world, as explained in numerous passages (D'vorim 30:3-4; Yeshayohu 11:11-12, 16, 27:12-13; Yirmeyohu 23:7-8; Yechezkel 39:25, 27-29; Zecharyoh 2:10-11). This restoration of Klal Yisroel is unconditional, and will happen even if the people should not wish to return, as explained in Yechezkel (20:32-37, 40-42; 36:22-25).

6) The whole earth, once Moshiach comes, will be filled with awareness, consciousness, knowledge, and perception of G-d and G-dliness (Yeshayohu 11:9, 40:5, 52:8; Yirmeyohu 31:32-33; Yoel 3:1-2). Hashem's spirit will be upon His people and providing them all with the power of prophecy and vision. All mankind, Jew and gentile alike, will worship Hashem in unison (Yeshayohu 2:2-3, 66:23; Michoh 4:1-2; Tzefanyoh 3:9; Zecharyoh 9:16, 14:9).

7) Moshiach will usher in a permanent era of universal peace and harmony (Yeshayohu 60:21; Yechezkel 37:23; Yirmeyohu 50:20; Tzefanyoh 3:13; Zecharyoh 13:2; Malachi 3:19); a veritable utopia throughout the world (Yeshayohu 2:4; Hoshea 2:20; Michoh 4:3-4; Zecharyoh 9:10). Even the animal kingdom will be affected, to the point where animals too, will live in peace and harmony with one another (Yeshayohu 11:6-9, 66:25).

8) The Messianic Era will witness the eradication of disease, and all afflicted shall be healed (Yeshayohu 35:5-6). Death itself, too, shall cease (Yeshayohu 25:8). And the Jewish People's physical needs will be taken care of by others (Yeshayohu 61:5).

9) In the final stage of the Messianic Era, there will be a T'chiyas Hameisim or "Resurrection of the Dead" (Yechezkel 37:12-14; Yeshayohu 26:19; Daniyel 12:2).

10) There will be marvelous prosperity throughout the world with an abundance of every kind of produce. Tziyon's wilderness will be made to be "like a paradise, and its wasteland like the garden of Hashem" (Yeshayohu 51:3; Yechezkel 36:29-30, 47:12; Amos 9:13)

Not a single one of these prophecies applies to Yoshke, both according to the well-known Jewish Tradition (which rejects Yoshke categorically), as well as according to the admission of the New Testament:
1) According to the New Testament, Yoshke was NOT a paternal descendant of Dovid; and in Torah Judaism, as said, it is only the father who determines the tribal affiliation and succession (the mother determines the Jewish status of the child, but NOT the tribal affiliation (Yisroel, Levi, Kohein), as stated explicitly in B'midbor 1:2, 1:18 and Ezra 2:59. There is zero basis in the Torah for the idea of a father (in this case, Joseph) passing on his tribal affiliation by adoption. For example, a Kohein who adopts a Jewish child from another tribe cannot make him a Levite let alone a Kohein, by adoption. And in the case of Yoshke, since he was supposedly born of no earthly father, he had no tribal affiliation to begin with. Therefore he is not a direct paternal descendant of Dovid Hamelech.

2) Moshiach is supposed to be a man with the spirit of Hashem upon him, a spirit of knowledge and a fear of Hashem. He shall be inspired with fear of Hashem, righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins. Unfortunately, Yoshke did NOT live up to this, as according to the records of the New Testament, he was a contentious and witting transgressor, and denier of Hashem's Laws and Commandments and Jewish Tradition. To wit:
  • A) Yoshke condoned the capital offense of his disciples, violating the Shabbes (chillul shabbes), as recorded in Matthew chapter 12; and in fact publicly violated the Shabbes himself (mechalel shabbes b'farhesyo) on several occasions, as recorded in Matthew chapter 12, Luke chapter 13, Luke chapter 14, and John chapter 9.
  • B) Yoshke denied and mocked dietary laws of the Torah (kashrus), as recorded in Matthew chapter 15 and Mark chapter 7.
  • C) Yoshke violated and mocked the need for ritual washing of the hands (netilas yodoyim), as recorded in Matthew chapter 15, Mark chapter 7, Luke chapter 11.
  • D) Yoshke ignored the practice and laws of ordained fasts (ta'anis), as recorded in Matthew chapter 6, Mark chapter 2, Luke chapter 6.
  • E) Yoshke opposed and mocked communal prayers (minyonim), as recorded in Matthew chapter 6.
  • F) Yoshke violated and mocked the 10 Commandments precept of honoring one's mother and father (kibbud av v'aim), as recorded in Matthew chapter 8, Matthew chapter 12, Matthew chapter 23, Luke chapter 14.
  • G) Yoshke denied the Biblical permission to divorce (hilchos gittin), as recorded in Matthew chapter 5, and Matthew chapter 19.
  • H) Yoshke violated the Biblical command of burying the dead (kavor tikberainu bayoim) when he tells one of his disciples whose father was niftar, "follow me, and let the dead bury the dead", as recorded in Matthew chapter 8 and Luke chapter 9
  • I) Yoshke violated the Biblical prohibition against carrying a grudge and avenging oneself by cursing, threatening, and planning revenge against those who would not believe and follow him (loi sikom v'loi sitor), Matthew chapter 7, Matthew chapter 10, Luke chapter 19, 1 Corinthians chapter 16.
  • J) On the one hand, Yoshke pretended to affirm and strengthen the rabbinic ordinances of the Pharisees who "sit in Moshe's seat" (Matthew 5, Matthew 23), and then turned around to warn his followers to beware of the teachings of the Pharisees (Matthew 16).
3) Yoshke did NOT come AFTER the Jewish People sat for many days without king and without sacrifices, since the Bais Hamikdosh where the korbanos were given was STILL standing during Yoshke's time.

4) The Third Bais Hamikdosh has yet to be rebuilt. Where the Temple Mount sits is where the Moslem Dome of the Rock currently stands. (Only when Moshiach comes will it be leveled to pave way for the restoration of the Bais Hamikdosh.) The law of the land in Israel is far from Torah Law. (Only when Moshiach comes will Torah Law be reinstituted; until then, the land will be rife with chillul Hashem as prophesied in Saifer Yechezkel.)

5) All the exiles of Klal Yisroel have yet to be reunited in Eretz Yisroel, seeing as roughly half the Diaspora is still living in golus.

6) The earth has certainly NOT been filled with the knowledge and perception of Hashem since Yoshke came. Nor does all mankind worship Hashem in unison; 7) nor is there an end to evil and sin and warfare, nor is there universal peace and harmony among men and animals. In fact, 8) the world has never seen so much warfare, bloodshed, suffering, disease, confusion, and inhumanity, SINCE the coming of Yoshke, and very much if not most unfortunately, IN his name.

In short, we are presented with the picture of a man who violated the eternal Commandments of Hashem as ordained in the Torah. Yoshke was a contentious and witting transgressor, and denier of Hashem's Laws and Commandments and Jewish Tradition. He did not live up to a single criterion of Moshiach, the messiah discussed in the prophecies of the Jewish Prophets, addressed and promised to the Jewish People and recorded in Tenach, the Jewish Scriptures.


"...כל המכבד את התורה, גופו מכבד על הבריות; וכל המחלל את התורה, גופו מחלל על הבריות"

This is the beginning and the end of Yoshke.
 

DoubleClutch

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Jews have known for two millennia that Yoshke could not possibly have been the Moshiach. What the messianic minority believe is not indicative of, nor has any bearing on, the klal. The number of adherents is irrelevant; the claim that Yoshke is Moshiach is no stronger than that of Shimon Bar Kochba, Shabsai Tzvi, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, or any of the tens of Jews throughout Jewish history who thought they were (or whom their talmidim thought they were) Moshiach. The proof is in the doing. In the shemona esrei tefilla recited three times daily, we daven for all of the scriptural elements of the coming of Moshiach ben Dovid. As evidenced by the Jewish Scriptures, Yoshke hasn't fulfilled those prophecies. And he's dead now. Judaism for millennia has held death to be a breach of contract (as is seen most prominently in the case of Bar Kochba). Since Yoshke obviously wasn't the Moshiach, and since somebody who was niftar can not be the Moshiach in the future, it really doesn't matter whether he fulfilled the prophecies the best (he didn't); there is no partial credit. It is clear to Am Yisroel, the only nation who can actually open up a Saifer Torah and read the Hebrew text for themselves, that the sure signs of Moshiach's arrival have yet to come to pass. Moshiach and the Messianic Era lie in our era or in a future era, not in the past.

Moshiach, the Jewish Messiah, is a concept wholly and totally derived from, and dependent on, the Jewish Scriptures. Thus, for all and any information on the Jewish Messiah, one can only depend on Tenach, the Jewish Scriptures. The Hebrew word משיח or 'Moshiach' appears in Tenach 39 times. Not ONCE does it refer to Moshiach Tzidkainu, the scion of Dovid Hamelech. משיח simply means "anointed". Dovid was a משיח (anointed) during his time (Shmuel B 23:1); so, too, Shaul, whom Dovid succeeded (Shmuel A 24:11). Even Cyrus of Persia, a gentile, he who gave the decree by way of Hashem for the Jews' return from Bavel to Yerusholoyim to rebuild the Bais Hamikdosh, is referred to as a משיח:

"...כה אמר ה' למשיחו לכורש—Ko Omar Hashem l'Mashicho l'Koresh...—Thus said Hashem to Cyrus, His anointed one... (Yeshayohu 45:1)"

In Tenach there is no significance to the Hebrew word משיח in relation to the House of Dovid. It is a later rabbinic concept to refer to the messiah as משיח or 'Moshiach'. The reason Jews refer to the messiah as משיח is simply because he will be the anointed king.

There are 10 basic aspects required of Moshiach:
1) Moshiach must be Jewish (D'vorim 17:15), from the tribe of Judah (B'raishis 49:10), and a direct male descendant of Dovid Hamelech (Yeshayohu 11:1; Yirmeyohu 23:5-6; Shmuel B 7:16; T'hilim 89:36-38) by way of his son Shlomo (D.H A 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6); for the Torah restricts tribal affiliation and succession to paternal descendants only, as explicitly stated in B'midbor 1:2, 1:18, and Ezra 2:59.

2) Of Moshiach it is said: "The spirit of Hashem will rest upon him; a spirit of wisdom and understanding, a spirit of counsel and might, a spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Hashem." (Yeshayohu 11:2)

3) Moshiach will come AFTER B'nai Yisroel will sit solitary for many days without king and without prince and without sacrifice [of the Bais Hamikdosh] (Hoshea 3:4-5)

4) The Bais Hamikdosh in Yerusholoyim will be rebuilt to stand forevermore after Moshiach comes (Yechezkel 37:26-28), and its services will be re-established (Yirmeyohu 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Eretz Yisroel and establish Torah Law as the law of the land (Yirmeyohu 33:15).

5) All the exiles of Klal Yisroel will be restored from all the corners of the world, as explained in numerous passages (D'vorim 30:3-4; Yeshayohu 11:11-12, 16, 27:12-13; Yirmeyohu 23:7-8; Yechezkel 39:25, 27-29; Zecharyoh 2:10-11). This restoration of Klal Yisroel is unconditional, and will happen even if the people should not wish to return, as explained in Yechezkel (20:32-37, 40-42; 36:22-25).

6) The whole earth, once Moshiach comes, will be filled with awareness, consciousness, knowledge, and perception of G-d and G-dliness (Yeshayohu 11:9, 40:5, 52:8; Yirmeyohu 31:32-33; Yoel 3:1-2). Hashem's spirit will be upon His people and providing them all with the power of prophecy and vision. All mankind, Jew and gentile alike, will worship Hashem in unison (Yeshayohu 2:2-3, 66:23; Michoh 4:1-2; Tzefanyoh 3:9; Zecharyoh 9:16, 14:9).

7) Moshiach will usher in a permanent era of universal peace and harmony (Yeshayohu 60:21; Yechezkel 37:23; Yirmeyohu 50:20; Tzefanyoh 3:13; Zecharyoh 13:2; Malachi 3:19); a veritable utopia throughout the world (Yeshayohu 2:4; Hoshea 2:20; Michoh 4:3-4; Zecharyoh 9:10). Even the animal kingdom will be affected, to the point where animals too, will live in peace and harmony with one another (Yeshayohu 11:6-9, 66:25).

8) The Messianic Era will witness the eradication of disease, and all afflicted shall be healed (Yeshayohu 35:5-6). Death itself, too, shall cease (Yeshayohu 25:8). And the Jewish People's physical needs will be taken care of by others (Yeshayohu 61:5).

9) In the final stage of the Messianic Era, there will be a T'chiyas Hameisim or "Resurrection of the Dead" (Yechezkel 37:12-14; Yeshayohu 26:19; Daniyel 12:2).

10) There will be marvelous prosperity throughout the world with an abundance of every kind of produce. Tziyon's wilderness will be made to be "like a paradise, and its wasteland like the garden of Hashem" (Yeshayohu 51:3; Yechezkel 36:29-30, 47:12; Amos 9:13)

Not a single one of these prophecies applies to Yoshke, both according to the well-known Jewish Tradition (which rejects Yoshke categorically), as well as according to the admission of the New Testament:
1) According to the New Testament, Yoshke was NOT a paternal descendant of Dovid; and in Torah Judaism, as said, it is only the father who determines the tribal affiliation and succession (the mother determines the Jewish status of the child, but NOT the tribal affiliation (Yisroel, Levi, Kohein), as stated explicitly in B'midbor 1:2, 1:18 and Ezra 2:59. There is zero basis in the Torah for the idea of a father (in this case, Joseph) passing on his tribal affiliation by adoption. For example, a Kohein who adopts a Jewish child from another tribe cannot make him a Levite let alone a Kohein, by adoption. And in the case of Yoshke, since he was supposedly born of no earthly father, he had no tribal affiliation to begin with. Therefore he is not a direct paternal descendant of Dovid Hamelech.

2) Moshiach is supposed to be a man with the spirit of Hashem upon him, a spirit of knowledge and a fear of Hashem. He shall be inspired with fear of Hashem, righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins. Unfortunately, Yoshke did NOT live up to this, as according to the records of the New Testament, he was a contentious and witting transgressor, and denier of Hashem's Laws and Commandments and Jewish Tradition. To wit:
  • A) Yoshke condoned the capital offense of his disciples, violating the Shabbes (chillul shabbes), as recorded in Matthew chapter 12; and in fact publicly violated the Shabbes himself (mechalel shabbes b'farhesyo) on several occasions, as recorded in Matthew chapter 12, Luke chapter 13, Luke chapter 14, and John chapter 9.
  • B) Yoshke denied and mocked dietary laws of the Torah (kashrus), as recorded in Matthew chapter 15 and Mark chapter 7.
  • C) Yoshke violated and mocked the need for ritual washing of the hands (netilas yodoyim), as recorded in Matthew chapter 15, Mark chapter 7, Luke chapter 11.
  • D) Yoshke ignored the practice and laws of ordained fasts (ta'anis), as recorded in Matthew chapter 6, Mark chapter 2, Luke chapter 6.
  • E) Yoshke opposed and mocked communal prayers (minyonim), as recorded in Matthew chapter 6.
  • F) Yoshke violated and mocked the 10 Commandments precept of honoring one's mother and father (kibbud av v'aim), as recorded in Matthew chapter 8, Matthew chapter 12, Matthew chapter 23, Luke chapter 14.
  • G) Yoshke denied the Biblical permission to divorce (hilchos gittin), as recorded in Matthew chapter 5, and Matthew chapter 19.
  • H) Yoshke violated the Biblical command of burying the dead (kavor tikberainu bayoim) when he tells one of his disciples whose father was niftar, "follow me, and let the dead bury the dead", as recorded in Matthew chapter 8 and Luke chapter 9
  • I) Yoshke violated the Biblical prohibition against carrying a grudge and avenging oneself by cursing, threatening, and planning revenge against those who would not believe and follow him (loi sikom v'loi sitor), Matthew chapter 7, Matthew chapter 10, Luke chapter 19, 1 Corinthians chapter 16.
  • J) On the one hand, Yoshke pretended to affirm and strengthen the rabbinic ordinances of the Pharisees who "sit in Moshe's seat" (Matthew 5, Matthew 23), and then turned around to warn his followers to beware of the teachings of the Pharisees (Matthew 16).
3) Yoshke did NOT come AFTER the Jewish People sat for many days without king and without sacrifices, since the Bais Hamikdosh where the korbanos were given was STILL standing during Yoshke's time.

4) The Third Bais Hamikdosh has yet to be rebuilt. Where the Temple Mount sits is where the Moslem Dome of the Rock currently stands. (Only when Moshiach comes will it be leveled to pave way for the restoration of the Bais Hamikdosh.) The law of the land in Israel is far from Torah Law. (Only when Moshiach comes will Torah Law be reinstituted; until then, the land will be rife with chillul Hashem as prophesied in Saifer Yechezkel.)

5) All the exiles of Klal Yisroel have yet to be reunited in Eretz Yisroel, seeing as roughly half the Diaspora is still living in golus.

6) The earth has certainly NOT been filled with the knowledge and perception of Hashem since Yoshke came. Nor does all mankind worship Hashem in unison; 7) nor is there an end to evil and sin and warfare, nor is there universal peace and harmony among men and animals. In fact, 8) the world has never seen so much warfare, bloodshed, suffering, disease, confusion, and inhumanity, SINCE the coming of Yoshke, and very much if not most unfortunately, IN his name.

In short, we are presented with the picture of a man who violated the eternal Commandments of Hashem as ordained in the Torah. Yoshke was a contentious and witting transgressor, and denier of Hashem's Laws and Commandments and Jewish Tradition. He did not live up to a single criterion of Moshiach, the messiah discussed in the prophecies of the Jewish Prophets, addressed and promised to the Jewish People and recorded in Tenach, the Jewish Scriptures.


"...כל המכבד את התורה, גופו מכבד על הבריות; וכל המחלל את התורה, גופו מחלל על הבריות"

This is the beginning and the end of Yoshke.

Thanks for the response. I’m gonna show this to another Jewish (now Christians) guy I know and see what he says.

I don’t understand all the terminology but I kinda get what your (the Jewish perspective) perspective is now

I guess if you see Jesus as dead than that pretty much settles it :banderas:

But if he was accepted as the messiah by all and never crucified (or allowed himself to be) to begin with, I assume everything you said in the spoiler would’ve came to past in the order you laid out

Jesus death and resurrection (if you believe it :hubie:) put a intermission or detour in the timeline

I like to think what happened is “all part of the bigger picture” that includes a new “Christian” narrative and eventually all the requirements you need will be fulfilled when Jesus comes back.

In the meantime, when do you expect all the exiled Jews to return and how :patrice:
 
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CopiousX

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You still gotta explain how the Israelite/Hebrew people of the Bible got from North Africa/Middle East region to the America’s. And when they left
That one is actually pretty easy. The easiest question posed on this whole thread. Mediterranean currents naturally flow into the Atlantic. And The currents from North Africa and west Africa naturally flow to South America. It’s how Old World organisms such as monkeys and certain Africa-only plants like mahogany and certain fruits crossed the Atlantic into Brazil and Central America.

‘link - When Monkeys Surfed to South America

2nd link- 21 Million Years Ago, Monkeys May Have Floated to North America on Rafts | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine


A few cacs tested it out in the 20th century. Those crazy people got into a canoe in North Africa with no oars. It took them a minute, but they actually crossed over with no propulsion.

And there is evidence this travel may be dual directional in relation to people. The very presence of Seminoles in North America, as well as black folk kicking it with the Olmec show one direction. In the other direction, you have South America only plants such as Coca and Nicotine being found in Egyptian tombs. Egyptians, who lived in close proximity to the very Israelite/Hebrew people you mention.
Link- Henut Taui - Wikipedia

link 2- American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies






Thus the travel and possibility of travel for preClombian people is not only plausible, but has tangible results and evidence. This is why I’m a heavy proponent of having our own scientists and researchers, because cacs have no incentive to propagate this info, info which clearly defies their World View and Mythology of cac “discovery”.


As for when they traveled....this one is hard. The region they supposedly went to is extremely moist and humid, which is the natural enemy of fossilization. This makes finding subjects for radio-carbon dating difficult. We could definitely go on cultural similarities as @Everythingg suggests but that’s a slippery slope. I’d much prefer actual relics or tools that we could date through K-Ar (potassium- argon dating)
 

MMS

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That one is actually pretty easy. The easiest question posed on this whole thread. Mediterranean currents naturally flow into the Atlantic. And The currents from North Africa and west Africa naturally flow to South America. It’s how Old World organisms such as monkeys and certain Africa-only plants like mahogany and certain fruits crossed the Atlantic into Brazil and Central America.

‘link - When Monkeys Surfed to South America

2nd link- 21 Million Years Ago, Monkeys May Have Floated to North America on Rafts | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine


A few cacs tested it out in the 20th century. Those crazy people got into a canoe in North Africa with no oars. It took them a minute, but they actually crossed over with no propulsion.

And there is evidence this travel may be dual directional in relation to people. The very presence of Seminoles in North America, as well as black folk kicking it with the Olmec show one direction. In the other direction, you have South America only plants such as Coca and Nicotine being found in Egyptian tombs. Egyptians, who lived in close proximity to the very Israelite/Hebrew people you mention.
Link- Henut Taui - Wikipedia

link 2- American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies






Thus the travel and possibility of travel for preClombian people is not only plausible, but has tangible results and evidence. This is why I’m a heavy proponent of having our own scientists and researchers, because cacs have no incentive to propagate this info, info which clearly defies their World View and Mythology of cac “discovery”.


As for when they traveled....this one is hard. The region they supposedly went to is extremely moist and humid, which is the natural enemy of fossilization. This makes finding subjects for radio-carbon dating difficult. We could definitely go on cultural similarities as @Everythingg suggests but that’s a slippery slope. I’d much prefer actual relics or tools that we could date through K-Ar (potassium- argon dating)
this all assumes human beings evolved from apes :manny: the dark secret is most of the "homo" etc bones they find are really either apes or humans but they don't want to acknowledge the possibility of black/brown civilization building throughout the world

i find it high key hilarious that its easier to believe monkeys surfing rather than black kingdoms and chieftains building boats between west africa and south america

which is more plausible :martin:
 
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CopiousX

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this all assumes human beings evolved from apes :manny: the dark secret is most of the "homo" etc bones they find are really either apes or humans but they don't want to acknowledge the possibility of black/brown civilization building throughout the world

i find it high key hilarious that its easier to believe monkeys surfing rather than black kingdoms and chieftains building boats between west africa and south america

which is more plausible :martin:
Oh, I’m sorry. I believe you misinterpreted my post.




It was not on some “evolution vs. creation” nonsense. That debate is pointless and probably deserves its own post on the root. I’m tired of having or existence defined by cacs and their self projections, but that is beside the point.


So to clarify...there is branch in biology and anthropology called “primateology’. It focuses exclusively on the anatomy, pathology, genetics, and oral dentition of primates. You remember the white lady that taught gorillas sign language, she was one of them.

Within the branch,
  • there are the higher primates or HAPLORHINES (suborder Haplorhini) include the tarsiers, Old and New World monkeys, apes.
  • Then there are lower primates or strepsirhines (suborder Strepsirhini) include lemurs, bush babies, lorises.
Of these two groups, lower primates appear much sooner (by almost 1 order of magnitude) on the fossil record than higher primates. Because of their advantage in time, lower primates can be found natively outside of Africa and have historically existed in Africa, Europe, and Asia.

conversely, haplorhines (old world monkeys, and new world monkeys, gorillas ) are much newer and had not spread outside of the continent before the continental drift. This is why there are no chimpanzees or gorillas in Asia or even Madagascar . So my point in the original post was that, given the distance between Africa and the Americas, it would be impossible for New World monkeys(howler monkeys, spider monkeys, tamarind, etc) to exist in South America.



Because of the above, we find no primates alive native to both Africa and South America. But we do find fossil remains of extinct species of haplorhine (higher primates), through dental remains, on both Africa and South America. The presence of these ancestors to present day howler monkeys on both continents means that there was definitely a sea channel crossing from Africa to South America.






Thus my original point was that if the small brained, highly limited monkeys could cross the Atlantic safely, then the smart Hebrews and other ancient peoples are more than competent to make the trip also. Did I effectively clear up my original comment? There was miscommunication on my part.
 

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Thanks for the response. I’m gonna show this to another Jewish (now Christians) guy I know and see what he says.
He should know that Xianity began as an apikursus of Judaism, and that it is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to practice it. Xianity is man's effort to create G-d in his image; Judaism is Hashem's successful effort to create man in His image. Two opposite directions. What does he want: Eisuv or Yaakov? The Torah is the only true and authentic source of instruction and enlightenment from Hashem. All other forms of religion and spiritual and moral instruction are false or at least misleading. Any system other than Judaism is foreign to the Torah. Xianity chews the cud but does not have a cleft hoof; Islam has a cleft hoof but does not chew the cud. Israel and her gair are kosher. I add my birchos hedyit that he have the da'as and saichel to be choizer bi'tshuvo bi'm'hairo and rejoin the fold of our ancestors.

We are not Jews because of our belief, we are Jews because of our mothers. Being a Jew means having a Jewish mother OR a kosher conversion, the latter requiring gairus ol p din Torah, conversion according to Torah law. A person born to a Jewish mother is always considered a Jew, even if he 'converts' to another religion. A person who was born to a Jewish mother but 'converts' to another religion would still be a Jew—an apikurus or apostate, perhaps, a Jew in rebellion, but a Jew nevertheless—and still just as obligated to keep Hashem's mitzvos as any of his frum brethren. If you were born a Jew, you will die a Jew. So, too, a gair or gioress, a convert; once he or she becomes a Jew, he or she will die a Jew. Gair sh'nisgaiyer k'kuton sh'noilad domi ("One who converts is like a newborn child").

And that neshuma can then legitimately say at Pesach Seder: "Thank you for taking my ancestors out of Egypt." Or, more appropriately, as we recite from the Haggadah: "B'chul door vo'door, chiav odom lir'ois eis atzmoi, k'ilu hu yotzo mi'Mitzroyim—In every generation, one must consider himself as if he personally was liberated from Egypt." Indeed, even if that convert is Egyptian. Converts are considered to be the spiritual descendants of Avrohom Oveenu and Sorah Imeinu, Avrohom being the very first convert. Hence the reason on Halochic documents a gair/gioress is noted as ben/bas Avrohom Oveenu. The ancestors of the neshuma the convert receives were thus taken out of Egypt. It is a Jewish soul, with a Jewish heritage, with a Jewish background, with Jewish memory—it's a complete Jew.

I guess if you see Jesus as dead than that pretty much settles it
Moshiach is a human being with two biological parents, both Jewish, the father a direct paternal descendant of Judah by way of Dovid and Shlomo. Moshiach is not a god or a demi-god or a man-god.

But if he was accepted as the messiah by all and never crucified (or allowed himself to be) to begin with, I assume everything you said in the spoiler would’ve came to past in the order you laid out
The fact of the matter is Yoshke was never accepted as Moshiach by all, not even by most, and certainly not by those who carefully preserved Tenach and all the traditions surrounding it.

Jesus death and resurrection (if you believe it) put a intermission or detour in the timeline
The Xian idea of the messiah is closer to the pagan notion of a dying/saving god than to the Jewish understanding of Moshiach. When Xians say "messiah" they don't mean what we do (anointed king); they mean "savior", which is completely different. Hashem makes it clear that aside from Him there is no savior (Yeshayohu 43:11, 45:21; Hoshea 13:4). Hashem has no physical form (D'vorim 4:15), and He is not a man nor a son of man (B'midbor 23:19; Shmuel A 15:29; Hoshea 11:9). He has no body, nor power of the body; if He were to be a body then He would be like any other body and would not be G-d. Torah explicitly states that Hashem is incorporeal, He is One (D'vorim 6:4, from which the Shema–the flagship statement of Jewish monotheistic faith–is derived). For something to exist physically, it necessarily follows that there can be two or more of it. By saying Hashem is One, we are denying that there is any multiplicity of Him. According to Torah, G-d is Infinite, everywhere at all times. Thus says Dovid Hamelech: "Where can I escape from Your spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; if I descend to the netherworld, behold, You are there." According to the Xian text, Yoshke is not in the tomb. Since he is not in the tomb he is not everywhere. Since he is not everywhere he is not G-d.

I like to think what happened is “all part of the bigger picture” that includes a new “Christian” narrative and eventually all the requirements you need will be fulfilled when Jesus comes back.
The Xian narrative of Moshiach is antithetical to the very foundation of Moshiach, the Jewish Scriptures. The 'Old Testament' is nothing more than a corrupted version of Torah and Nach the Jews read, repackaged in Xtological wrap to insert Yoshke into the text.

In the meantime, when do you expect all the exiled Jews to return and how
It is forbidden for a Jew to calculate the specific date of Moshiach's arrival. On the one hand, Chaza"l, our sages of blessed memory, talk about Nisan as the month of geula, redemption (Nisan being the month of Yetzius Mitzroyim, the Exodus of Egypt); on the other, one of the fundamental principles of Jewish faith as set out by the Ramba"m in his Shlosha Asar Ikkarim, 13 Principles of Faith, is that a Jew is to wait for Moshiach every single day. The short answer is: Moshiach can come any day of the year, except of course on Shabbes and Yom Tov (even on Erev Shabbes he won't come). Nonetheless, there are certain times/months in the Jewish Calendar that are more auspicious than others, and apropos of Moshiach ben Dovid, the heralder of the ultimate geula, the month of Nisan is certainly that. While we may currently be in what's called in Aramaic, ikveso d'moshicho or "on the heels [footsteps] of the Moshiach", geula is a process; just as Noach spent 120 years building the ark, the geula which began again in Israel in 1948 is just the beginning of the process.
 
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