The Last of Us Part II Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

Eh, I’m hesitant to say Joel isn’t a “bad guy”. The contexts for good or not are really hard to apply in a post apocalyptic scenario like this but preying on innocents to kill them and take their stuff isn’t “good”.

There’s a reason Ellie was kinda disgusted when Joel admitted he knew it was a trap because he’d done stuff like this before to innocents.

It isn’t “good”, but it’s all about survival and being alert at all times to your surroundings. It’s totally fukked up, but that’s just the way it works on the post apocalyptic world. Only the strong survive.

 

[Brandeezy]

Man, some of ya'll need to remember that Joel ain't Ellie's fukking dad.

Yes, they spent close to a year together in the wild but that man is not her family nor legal guardian. Even if you said that Ellie is too young to decide for herself, who is? The guy who has only been in her life for a year? Marlene who actually has known Ellie longer?

Speaking of, in this fukking apocalyptic world where society has fallen apart, why shouldn't Ellie be able to decide for herself? Because she's 14? 14 and seen and survived more shyt than most of us ever will.

The case remains simple: Joel saved Ellie's life but robbed her of the choice to sacrifice her life. And he robbed her of that choice because he killed the doctor and he killed Marlene.

This, if Joel would've dropped the fact that he also gunned down Marlene, Ellie would've been a WLF soldier benching with Abby

 

[Pure Water]

Do people actually think Joel is a good guy or a hero?

I think Joel is our guy. Good or evil makes no difference in this situation.

 

[kingofnyc]

Ok

agree to disagree....we are on two completely different pages with the way we see the events of the game. I think you are just so partial to Joel that you can’t see anything beyond his perspective and that’s cool

Respectfully .... I don’t understand how it’s an agree to disagree option
when it’s straight out of Ellie mouth ... she says everybody she ever cared for either died or left her (Marlene wasn’t mentioned because they barely knew each other)

according to prequel cartoon Ellie was an orphan sent to Boston military school and only met Marlene for the 1st time like a month before Ellie even met Joel
which proves Marlene never was her caretaker/guardian

Marlene is Ellie's surrogate mother, remember Ellie's mom died during child birth and Marlene promised to look after her. Marlene put her in a boarding school after there was too much heat on the Fireflies.

Yeah Marlene knew Anna whom was Ellie mother
like I just said the fact that Marlene met Ellie for the 1st time when she was 14 years old, kind of proves Marlene couldn’t have been a surrogate mother

 

[Brandeezy]

Yeah Marlene knew Anna whom was Ellie mother
like I just said the fact that Marlene met Ellie for the 1st time when she was 14 years old, kind of proves Marlene couldn’t have been a surrogate mother

What are you talking about breh, Marlene adopted Ellie, Ellie's mom died after giving birth which is why Marlene had the letter her mother wrote before she died and gave it to Ellie. Marlene didn't just know Anna, she was like her best friend. Why do you think Ellie was so reluctant to leave Marlene and tried to kill Joel/Tess with her knife to protect Marlene

 

[kingofnyc]

Man, some of ya'll need to remember that Joel ain't Ellie's fukking dad.

Yes, they spent close to a year together in the wild but that man is not her family nor legal guardian. Even if you said that Ellie is too young to decide for herself, who is? The guy who has only been in her life for a year? Marlene who actually has known Ellie longer?

Speaking of, in this fukking apocalyptic world where society has fallen apart, why shouldn't Ellie be able to decide for herself? Because she's 14? 14 and seen and survived more shyt than most of us ever will.

The case remains simple: Joel saved Ellie's life but robbed her of the choice to sacrifice her life. And he robbed her of that choice because he killed the doctor and he killed Marlene.

As I just said Marlene only met Ellie for the 1st time a month before Ellie met Joel
and Ellie barely knows Marlene
Joel spent damn near a year traveling across the country ... every day with her

and even in a post apocalypse world there’s there’s no way a 14 year old should be able to make a life/death decision like that
I mean in reality they could’ve just said we need several more years until she became 18 and allow her to make that decision when she became an adult

 

[kingofnyc]

What are you talking about breh, Marlene adopted Ellie, Ellie's mom died after giving birth which is why Marlene had the letter her mother wrote before she died and gave it to Ellie. Marlene didn't just know Anna, she was like her best friend. Why do you think Ellie was so reluctant to leave Marlene and tried to kill Joel/Tess with her knife to protect Marlene

The Last of Us: American Dreams - Wikipedia

At the Boston quarantine zone, Ellie becomes caught in a fight with a group of boys who attempt to steal her belongings. Riley Abel steps in to break up the fight, beating one of the boys and making the others flee. Ellie becomes angered by this, claiming that she can take care of herself.[13] Riley then advises Ellie to flee, but the latter is caught and assigned to cleaning duty. While she is completing the chore, she realizes that Riley stole her Walkman,[14] and later demands that she return it, which Riley reluctantly does.[15]

At night, Ellie catches Riley attempting to sneak out of the school, and demands to accompany her.[16] Riley reluctantly agrees, and the two make their way to the mall, where they meet Riley's friend Winston.[17] As Winston teaches Ellie how to ride a horse, Riley steals his radio, and discovers that an attack by the Fireflies—a rebel group opposing the quarantine zone authorities—has occurred nearby.[18] Ellie and Riley make their way to the attack, and find that the Fireflies are wounded and outnumbered. To help, Ellie and Riley throw smoke grenades at the military, allowing the Fireflies to retreat safely.[19] They are spotted by the military, and escape into a nearby alley, where they narrowly avoid being bitten by an Infected—zombie-like creatures infected by a mutated strain of the Cordyceps fungus.[20]

The girls are soon captured by Fireflies, who restrain them; Marlene, the leader of the Fireflies, recognizes Ellie, and demands that she remain safe.[21] When Riley claims she would like to join their group,[22] Marlene refuses, and the two argue, resulting in Marlene threatening to shoot Riley.[23] Ellie intervenes, demanding at gunpoint that Marlene explain how she knows information about Ellie. When Ellie finally lowers the gun, Marlene informs her that she knew Ellie's mother, and had promised her that she would take care of Ellie.[24] Ellie hands the gun to Marlene, who says that she would tell her more about her mother in the future, before telling the girls to leave.[25] When Ellie and Riley reenter the quarantine zone, Riley says that there is no escape. Ellie suggests running away, but Riley informs her that this will just result in death. The two then walk back into the school.[26]

I know the story kinda gets confusing
but the truth is Marlene met Ellie for the 1st time when she was 14 years old at the boarding school with Riley her new friend/ future young lover
and only about a month later Marlene hires Joel and Tess to deliver her

so once again, Ellie hardly/barely even knows Marlene

 

[klientel]

As I just said Marlene only met Ellie for the 1st time a month before Ellie met Joel
and Ellie barely knows Marlene
Joel spent damn near a year traveling across the country ... every day with her

and even in a post apocalypse world there’s there’s no way a 14 year old should be able to make a life/death decision like that
I mean in reality they could’ve just said we need several more years until she became 18 and allow her to make that decision when she became an adult

That doesn’t make sense breh

Ellie at 14 wasn’t ok with what Joel did and Ellie at 19 STILL wasn’t ok with what he did. Joel saw his daughter in Ellie and did a selfish thing....it’s literally the basis for the entire story of part 2. Trying to argue anything beyond that and doing all these mental gymnastics to justify what Joel did is silly and unnecessary.

For you to try and and spin it to make Joel some kind of hero who saved her life and did the right thing goes against the entire plot of the game

It’s plain as day he made the wrong choice when he stopped the doctors. It set off a chain of events that got him and a bunch of others killed and more or less ruined Ellie’s life and destroyed his relationship with her. I’m not sure why you are arguing that. It’s a fact, not opinion. It was the right choice for him and the wrong choice for literally everyone else.

 

[old pig]

It set off a chain of events that got him and a bunch of others killed and more or less ruined Ellie’s life and destroyed his relationship with her. I’m not sure why you are arguing that.

He. Hasn’t. Played. The. Game.

 

[TheGodling]

I think Joel is our guy. Good or evil makes no difference in this situation.

Yep. Everybody understands Joel, even if it wasn't for the greater good.

 

[Draje]

It isn’t “good”, but it’s all about survival and being alert at all times to your surroundings. It’s totally fukked up, but that’s just the way it works on the post apocalyptic world. Only the strong survive.

I disagree but that’s just me. I think it’s the job of the strong to protect those weaker than you. I actually think the powerful have an obligation to protect those weaker than them.

Human Value shouldn’t solely based on “strength” or power.

I’m not saying that good people can’t do horrendous things but Joel was literally a RAIDER from Fallout. They were luring in and setting traps for innocent people, killing them (Children included), and taking their stuff. It wasn’t like they were scavenging for supplies and fell into a battle for survival.

 

[Draje]

I think Joel is our guy. Good or evil makes no difference in this situation.

What does that even mean? Joel is a straight up scumbag and has very few good qualities. Joel is pretty much a monster. I’d say only David and his camp of cannibals are the only group that’s straight up worse than Joel.

You playing as Joel doesn’t change the fact that his only REDEEMING quality is his relationship with Ellie and he even throws that ALL away when he lies to her.

Yep. Everybody understands Joel, even if it wasn't for the greater good.

Understanding and empathizing with a characters motive is great but he’s still an awful person.

The funny thing is that I actually really like Joel too. He’s probably one of the more nuanced characters in AAA gaming but he is a prick for 90% of the game.

 

[Pure Water]

What does that even mean? Joel is a straight up scumbag and has very few good qualities. Joel is pretty much a monster. I’d say only David and his camp of cannibals are the only group that’s straight up worse than Joel.

You playing as Joel doesn’t change the fact that his only REDEEMING quality is his relationship with Ellie and he even throws that ALL away when he lies to her.

But whether if he’s a scumbag or not isn’t important. What’s important is who I was riding for. Who my loyalty was to. And that was Joel.

 

[kingofnyc]

That doesn’t make sense breh

Ellie at 14 wasn’t ok with what Joel did and Ellie at 19 STILL wasn’t ok with what he did. Joel saw his daughter in Ellie and did a selfish thing....it’s literally the basis for the entire story of part 2. Trying to argue anything beyond that and doing all these mental gymnastics to justify what Joel did is silly and unnecessary.

For you to try and and spin it to make Joel some kind of hero who saved her life and did the right thing goes against the entire plot of the game

It’s plain as day he made the wrong choice when he stopped the doctors. It set off a chain of events that got him and a bunch of others killed and more or less ruined Ellie’s life and destroyed his relationship with her. I’m not sure why you are arguing that. It’s a fact, not opinion. It was the right choice for him and the wrong choice for literally everyone else.

Come on breh
are you really going to justify a 14 year old making that decision... now that doesn’t make any sense

and I have absolutely no idea where you’re getting the fact that I am trying to have some type of mental gymnastics to justify what Joel did I could care less about that outcome the only question I pose from day 1 is .... does Abby‘s father the doctor and you can throw in Marlene as well - have the right to take Ellie life ?

 

[Thavoiceofthevoiceless]

I disagree but that’s just me. I think it’s the job of the strong to protect those weaker than you. I actually think the powerful have an obligation to protect those weaker than them.

Human Value shouldn’t solely based on “strength” or power.

I’m not saying that good people can’t do horrendous things but Joel was literally a RAIDER from Fallout. They were luring in and setting traps for innocent people, killing them (Children included), and taking their stuff. It wasn’t like they were scavenging for supplies and fell into a battle for survival.

Where was it stated that he had murdered children before?

No offense but you wouldn’t have survived long with that mentality especially when food and resources are scarce and hard to come by. They weren’t just robbing them for the hell of it, but more so to survive.

You can make the case that Joel going back to Tommy’s and developing his mentality is what got him killed in the first place. He got too comfortable and let his guard down.