The Birth of a Nation (Official Thread)

NobodyReally

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Cornfields, cows, & an one stoplight town
I dont know to be honest fam.
Its not some ol bullshyt
But shyt like this just hurts me
It crushes my soul.
Cause i dont WANT to believe that we as black people are this weak.

I just dont understand how these people can continue on like they havent commited some of the worst attrocities ever. Like on some, "yeah, we fukked up. Our bad!" And continue to be these evil pieces of shyt.
How do i explain this typa shyt to my son?
HOW?!?!?

Is that what you get out of slave movies? That we're weak?

They bought us because we're strong
They whipped us, created slave patrols, and passed legislation to punish and kill us and any white that aided us to liberation because we kept breaking our bonds
In spite of them trying to brainwash us and threaten us with death, we continued our customs and developed new ones. We developed new ways of making our work easier, we learned how to read and created our own schools way before it was legal.
We survived an attempt at mass genocide when they thought our numbers were too large and we were no longer useful.
Slave movies are a reminder that we're still here, and we're strong as hell. There's nothing weak about a group of people who have to be oppressed by sheer force and the threat of force. These fukkers were scared of us, and still are.
 

Birnin Zana

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As promised, here's my review of the film. No spoilers.

The Cast:

Excellent. Everyone from the top down brought their A-game for this one. There were no weak links in it, at all. None. Major props to all of them for their performance.

Nate Parker did a great job as Nat Turner. You can see the evolution of the character from the beginning of the film till the end. Some have said that Nat Turner seemed "perfect." I disagree with that. If anything, Nat recognizing the flaw in himself was critical to the character's evolution. He and Armand Hammer had great chemistry in the film, which elevated both characters in the film.

Armand Hammer as Samuel Turner was great. Not only that, he was a reflection of an important reality of those times and even today: a lot of whites aren't "racist" per se, but the system pretty much strongly encourages them to move a certain way, especially considering the perks they get out of it, moreso back then. You also see an evolution in Samuel Turner from the beginning of the film till the end.

Aja Naomi King as Cherry Turner = :blessed:. She did a great job in a not so easy role. Her role could've ended up being bland, but she definitely brought the acting chops to her role. Like Nat and Samuel Turner, you also see an evolution in Cherry's character. She also had a subtle--but very important--impact on the film and on Nat Turner's evolution in an unexpected way, which I'll elaborate in my next post.

The rest of the supporting cast was great. Once again, no complains whatsoever. I'm very impressed by their work.

Directing:


If Nate is a first time director, I def couldn't tell. The directing in it was top notch. Some artistic decisions may be considered questionable by some viewers (the "visions" in particular), but overall, he brought his A-game to it. Clearly he more than gave a damn about this project.

As expected the movie as a whole lot of violence, but it def wasn't gratuitous. There also was little to no nudity as well.

Cinematography:

Simply put: Great. No jankiness there. Looked top notch.

Screenplay:

Once again, no complaints. Not to mention, the screenplay received a hell of a boost from the actors themselves. Thanks to them, the sad moments were really sad. The shocking moments: really shocking. The few funny moments (yes there were those): low key hilarious. The rebellion was very intense.

Music / Score:

The score might be movie's weakest point, but only because of how great everything else was. The score was solid. It really would be a matter of taste, but it def isn't bad. In certain scenes, it fit very well, intensifying certain scenes.

Overall, I'm really leaning towards giving it a 9 out of 10. This movie def isn't perfect and perhaps some real movie buffs might've noticed some stuff I may have missed, but honestly, this film has very little weaknesses. Everyone brought their A-game to this. It's no wonder this movie got so much love at Sundance. I'd def recommend this film.
 
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Dr. Narcisse

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Crazy how this got almost universal praise - not even praise, but MAJOR props - at Sundance...

and now most critics are pretty mixed on it.

:jbhmm:

I understand festival hype could have something to do with it but come on now.

Even the ones that loved it the first time are changing their opinion a bit.
A few hours after Nate Parker’s “The Birth of a Nation” premiered to thunderous applause at this year’s Sundance Film Festival, Variety published a largely glowing review, hailing the movie as a flawed but vital chronicle of American slavery — one that was told, crucially, from the perspective of the black men and women who endured it.

The review also acknowledged that Parker’s debut feature, a brutal yet sympathetic portrait of the rebel leader Nat Turner (played by Parker himself), was destined to provoke and polarize. “No film worthy of this particular historical subject,” the Variety critic wrote, “could hope or expect to avoid controversy.”

Full disclosure: That critic was me, and at the time I had no idea that my guess would turn out to be right for entirely the wrong reasons.


As anyone knows who has followed recent industry headlines, the conversation that has consumed “The Birth of a Nation” has had little to do with the film’s racially and politically charged subject matter, its confrontational images or its disturbing relevance in the era of Black Lives Matter, and everything to do with the rape accusations that its writer-director-star faced as a student at Penn State almost 20 years earlier.

Parker was found not guilty; Jean Celestin, his friend and future co-writer on the film, was convicted but later had the verdict overturned. But the filmmakers’ legal exoneration has done little to vindicate them publicly in the wake of the renewed spotlight on the case, as well as the news that Parker and Celestin’s accuser committed suicide in 2012.


It’s an unspeakably awful story that, by dint of Parker’s obvious talent and growing fame, has become a matter of intense public interest. It’s not a discussion I enter into casually. Personal tragedies have a way of making discussions of art and culture seem trivial, even callous — and they can be, when the discussion remains limited to commercial prospects and Oscar predictions.

But for better or worse, the widespread perception of “The Birth of a Nation” as an irredeemably tainted work — a cultural bombshell that may have blown up in its own face — offers a chastening reminder of the eternal difficulty of separating the art from the artist. That difficulty has become only more apparent in light of Parker’s decision to address the rape charges in a series of discomfiting press interviews.

While Parker is in the extraordinary if unenviable position of experiencing all this blowback at the very moment of his career breakthrough, he is hardly the first filmmaker whose embattled personal history has cast a bitter pall over his work.

Earlier this year, the premiere of Woody Allen’s “Café Society” led to renewed focus on the allegations that the director had sexually abused his adoptive daughter, Dylan Farrow. This November will see the theatrical release of Mel Gibson’s war drama “Hacksaw Ridge,” which will surely face tough scrutiny from those with still-fresh memories of Gibson’s anti-Semitic tirades.

Incidentally, Gibson’s own pathologies of masculinity and martyrdom are entirely relevant to “The Birth of a Nation,” which struck me then, and strikes me now, as basically a black version of “Braveheart” — a blood-soaked, testosterone-driven war epic in which scenes of intolerable oppression are meant to stoke a righteous bloodlust in the characters and the viewers alike.

I don’t much care for “Braveheart,” as it happens, but there’s no denying that its narrative of oppression and resistance has a crudely riveting power. And what gives Parker’s film its electric charge — its vitality as a work of historical and cinematic reclamation — is the way it recasts that narrative within the context of a real-life slave uprising, turning suffering African American men and women into vengeful agents of their own destiny.

What I saw that night struck me as a film unmistakably diminished, though not necessarily for the reasons I had feared. Any number of good, even great movies can feel leached of impact on a second or third encounter, and “The Birth of a Nation” — whose strengths lie almost entirely in its steady and suspenseful narrative buildup, its accrual of shocking moments en route to a cathartic release — seemed to have more or less exhausted its secrets the first time around.

If anything, the movie feels even shorter on second viewing, which speaks to Parker’s sense of narrative economy, but also his tendency to cut away suddenly or throw in a slick montage when a closer, more lingering appreciation of the horrors on display might be called for. (It’s one of many instances in which “The Birth of a Nation,” for all its virtues, feels far less artful or sustained than Steve McQueen’s “12 Years a Slave.”)

That expedient, mechanical storytelling approach can be detected even in two scenes that have understandably become some of the picture’s most talked-about moments. In one of them, Turner’s wife, Cherry (played by Aja Naomi King), is brutally beaten and raped by white slave-catchers; in another, a slave named Esther (played by Gabrielle Union) is forced to have sex with a white plantation guest.

In both scenes the act of sexual assault is implied rather than shown, but the very fact that Parker and Celestin sought to heighten their film’s emotional impact in this fashion has been called out by some of their critics as the ultimate hypocrisy. (Union has since spoken out about her experience as a sexual assault survivor, as well as her newly conflicted feelings about Parker and the movie.)


I myself was struck by the diagrammatic placement of these scenes within the narrative, and by the film’s relative disinterest in its female characters otherwise. Their suffering here is largely treated as a catalyst for vengeance, a means to an end.

If it’s especially hard to separate the art from the artist while watching “The Birth of a Nation,” it’s because the artist in this case is almost always in front of the camera. Parker’s performance as Turner is grave, measured, astutely judged; it also plays rather differently, to these eyes, than it did eight months ago. It’s hard to look at the actor’s face now without being reminded of his off-screen blunders, his vain and defensive attempts to reclaim ownership of his moment.

At Sundance, there was no mistaking Parker’s talent, or his swagger. It takes a certain effrontery, after all, to cast yourself as a Christ-like martyr figure, and to re-appropriate the title of a great but notoriously racist 1915 cinematic landmark. I didn’t begrudge the director his chutzpah, which undoubtedly helped him get his passion project made, and which seemed rooted in an honest and unimpeachable sense of the project’s importance. It also seemed rooted in his Christian faith, which he has repeatedly cited in interviews since the rape charges resurfaced.

In my original review, I noted that “The Birth of a Nation” was perhaps most effective as “a theological provocation, one that grapples fearlessly with the intense spiritual convictions that drove Turner to do what he had previously considered unthinkable.” It’s a judgment that I stand by even more strongly now. The most nuanced, provocative and unpredictable element of Parker’s movie remains its tough-minded understanding of Turner’s roots in Baptist theology — someone who led his followers to violence because of, rather than in spite of, his identification with Christ and his immersion in Scripture.


“He is a God of love, Nat. Don’t forget that,” says a dissenting fellow slave, to which Turner retorts, “I won’t. Nor will I forget that He is a God of wrath.” Wrath versus love, revenge versus forgiveness, Old Testament versus New — these are age-old spiritual contradictions that have kept theologians arguing for centuries, and “The Birth of a Nation” seems more instructive on that particular score than its maker may have intended.

To watch the film now is to be reminded of the need for activism and justice, but also the folly of choosing retribution over mercy. If you see “The Birth of a Nation” (and I recommend that you do), look closely at the man who occupies almost every frame. You may see Nat Turner; you may see Nate Parker. Either way, it’s hard not to see a man caught up in the thrill of his own crusade — and not realizing, perhaps, that his own day of judgment is very much on the march.
Separating the art from the artist: A critic takes a second look at Nate Parker's 'The Birth of a Nation'
 

Dr. Narcisse

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As promised, here's my review of the film. No spoilers.

The Cast:

Excellent. Everyone from the top down brought their A-game for this one. There were no weak links in it, at all. None. Major props to all of them for their performance.

Nate Parker did a great job as Nat Turner. You can see the evolution of the character from the beginning of the film till the end. Some have said that Nat Turner seemed "perfect." I disagree with that. If anything, Nat recognizing the flaw in himself was critical to the character's evolution. He and Armand Hammer had great chemistry in the film, which elevated both characters in the film.

Armand Hammer as Samuel Turner was great. Not only that, he was a reflection of an important reality of those times and even today: a lot of whites aren't "racist" per se, but the system pretty much strongly encourages them to move a certain way, especially considering the perks they get out of it, moreso back then. You also see an evolution in Samuel Turner from the beginning of the film till the end

Aja Naomi King as Cherry Turner = :blessed:. She did a great job in a not so easy role. Her role could've ended up being bland, but she definitely brought the acting chops to her role. Like Nat and Samuel Turner, you also see an evolution in Cherry's character. She also had a subtle--but very important--impact on the film and on Nat Turner's evolution in an unexpected way, which I'll elaborate in my next post.

The rest of the supporting cast was great. Once again, no complains whatsoever. I'm very impressed by their work.

Directing:


If Nate is a first time director, I def couldn't tell. The directing in it was top notch. Some artistic decisions may be considered questionable by some viewers (the "visions" in particular), but overall, he brought his A-game to it. Clearly he more than gave a damn about this project.

As expected the movie as a whole of violence, but it def wasn't gratuitous. There also was little to no nudity as well.

Cinematography:

Simply put: Great. No jankiness there. Looked top notch.

Screenplay:

Once again, no complaints. Not to mention, the screenplay received a hell of a boost from the actors themselves. Thanks to them, the sad moments were really sad. The shocking moments: really shocking. The few funny moments (yes there were those): low key hilarious. The rebellion was very intense.

Music / Score:

The score might be movie's weakest point, but only because of how great everything else was. The score was solid. It really would be a matter of taste, but it def isn't bad. In certain scenes, it fit very well, intensifying certain scenes.

Overall, I'm really leaning towards giving it a 9 out of 10. This movie def isn't perfect and perhaps some real movie buffs might've noticed some stuff I may have missed, but honestly, this film has very little weaknesses. Everyone brought their A-game to this. It's no wonder this movie got so much love at Sundance. I'd def recommend this film.

Interesting.

Nate Parker said that about cops on The Breakfast Club. He said he didn't believe that cops wake up planning to kill black people. However, they are constantly trained to view and deal with blacks as threats.
 

Birnin Zana

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I'd like to address some criticisms I've read about the film.

The Treatment of the Black female characters

Some critics have said that the movie failed the female characters, especially the black females. I have to disagree with that. They definitely weren't just "there" and they def had an impact to the plot, especially Nat's grandmother, Nat's mother, Cherry Turner, and even Elizabeth Turner (Samuel Turner's mother). I elaborate more in the spoilers below.

Nat's grandmother was a big source of support to Nat's mother, especially when Nat was taken away by Elizabeth Turner and brought to the house. She also made sure her family didn't fall apart when Nat's father had to leave the plantation after killing a slave patroler.

Most importantly, she saved her family life in the beginning of the film, when she pretended to beg to the slave patroler in order to retrieve the food before he found it.

Throughout the film, she helped her daughter keep it together. She also was the one who married Nat and Cherry Turner too.

Speaking of Nat's mother, one criticism was that we didn't see the pain black women went through. Again I disagree. One thing that really hit me was Nat's mother. She had to deal with her son being taken away by her slave master's wife and she flat out couldn't do anything about it. The movie made sure to show her anguish AND to show that she had support throughout this, via her mother (Nat's grandmother).

Elizabeth Turner has an obvious impact to the story: she teaches Nat how to read. However, she had another impact by giving Nat an unprecedented amount of agency via allowing Nat to baptize a white man, despite knowing that the whole town, including Samuel, would NOT like that one bit.

Lastly, Cherry Turner was perhaps the most impactful female character in the story, especially as far as Nat is concerned. After being assaulted by slave patrolers, Nat was determined to get retribution. However, Cherry would not tell him who did it and instead she recited back scripture to Nat, and insisted that he "leaves it to the lord." Thus, Nat reluctantly decides to fall back. Things could've been very different if she not only told him who did it, but also told him to get retribution. Which leads us to....

...the rebellion. Nat receives the "signal" from God for the rebellion to begin. Before rejoining the others, he stops by to visit Cherry one more time. She's still recovering. By that point, her views on retribution have evolved. She not only tells Nat that he's right, but also tells him to do it for her (and does it in a very soft spoken voice since she's recovering. Major props to Aja King on that scene). And from that point on, Nat was 100% committed.

Overall, the treatment of the female characters def wasn't perfect, but it was nowhere as bad as some critics claimed it was. Some of the female characters, Cherry Turner and Nat's Grandmother in particular (IMHO), def had highlights.

Lastly, the other Criticism I've been hearing:

The rape scenes weren't handled right:

A few things about those scenes.

-They happened off screen. We don't them occurring, but we do see the aftermath.

-Those scenes were not gratuitous: they clearly shown as morally wrong. However, it also reflected the pain and helplessness both black women (and even black men) went through during those times concerning that topic. The scene with Gabby Union in particular reflected that helplessness that was unfortunately quite common in those days.

I def understand if someone else would've done it differently, especially considering the topic. But the way it was handled on this film was fine, imho.

In short, I still believe that this film is worth watching and that it's worthy of the praise it gets.
 
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Birnin Zana

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Interesting.

Nate Parker said that about cops on The Breakfast Club. He said he didn't believe that cops wake up planning to kill black people. However, they are constantly trained to view and deal with blacks as threats.

It's a fair opinion to have. White supremacy, imho, forces a lot of white people to get in line in more ways than one. There's a reason why a lot of white people don't challenge the status quo much, especially as far as racism is concerned: they are taught not to, they get "perks" that others don't get, and they take a risk of losing all of that and possibly more if they stand up against racial injustice. Thus, a lot of them just get with the program ultimately.
 

thaKEAF

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Saw it last night and man it was painful to watch but inspiring at the same time. I think we gets too laxed and we need shyt like this to remind us that this was going on not that long ago. A lot of black people don't know the depths in which we were tortured..it was more than just picking cotton and being whipped. My only issue was how they had him stumble into a group of white folks at the end :patrice: like how or why would he be walking down an open road. That final scene was shot very well :damn:

Also the little boy who flipped...I need to read up and see if that part was just added for dramatization.
 

BXKingPin82

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Is that what you get out of slave movies? That we're weak?

They bought us because we're strong
They whipped us, created slave patrols, and passed legislation to punish and kill us and any white that aided us to liberation because we kept breaking our bonds
In spite of them trying to brainwash us and threaten us with death, we continued our customs and developed new ones. We developed new ways of making our work easier, we learned how to read and created our own schools way before it was legal.
We survived an attempt at mass genocide when they thought our numbers were too large and we were no longer useful.
Slave movies are a reminder that we're still here, and we're strong as hell. There's nothing weak about a group of people who have to be oppressed by sheer force and the threat of force. These fukkers were scared of us, and still are.
Great response!!!

I just wanna see these people pay.
That is all.
 

El Bombi

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Final thing I forgot to post.

Watched the movie during the matinee. Decent to good crowd considering the time slot (late morning, very early afternoon). Crowd was mostly black. Good balance of men and women. They gave the movie a round of applause at it's conclusion.

Yeah, this black woman start clapping when ol' boy cut the CAC head off. :russ:
 
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